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She could also have pushed the infrastructure issue, if that's to your liking. Less traffic is good for everybody. There was no reason for Trump to co-opt that so easily, it was OUR issue and the GOP shot down the jobs and infrastructure bills in 2010.
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Nov 28, 2016 23:18
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Serf posted:You're absolutely right. But if they repeal Medicare, the GOP won't take the heat for it. zegermans posted:Yeah Paul Ryan is already setting up the messaging as "Obamacare hosed up Medicare so badly, the only way to save it was to privatize it". they can set up all the messaging they like but material conditions are always more important than propaganda. the republicans are in power, if they make peoples healthcare worse people will vote for the other guy
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Nov 28, 2016 23:18
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anime was right posted:that still doesnt give me a reason to vote for hillary when an epic rap battle of history video does a better job of bragging about your candidate you have a problem. Seriously, she was in the administration that killed Bin Laden how do you not hammer that home every debate.
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Nov 28, 2016 23:19
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Stexils posted:they can set up all the messaging they like but material conditions are always more important than propaganda. the republicans are in power, if they make peoples healthcare worse people will vote for the other guy I hope you're right, but I just don't see this happening. We're about to see how apt the "post truth age" thing is. My money is on "very".
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Nov 28, 2016 23:20
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Stexils posted:material conditions are always more important than propaganda I feel like we just had an election that demonstrated that this was not the case.
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Nov 28, 2016 23:21
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a corrupt official posted:Okay guys I'm A LURKER but here's an idea. Not sure if I'm naïve or missing something or if what I'm describing already exists or was discussed already, but here goes. Why isn't there an app that facilitates (and hopefully drives) basic political involvement? Fullhouse posted:I had a similar idea a while back for basically a big map you could feed a zip code to that would give you a visualization of elections you could participate in and summaries of the issues or candidates on your ballot, but I'm super lazy and that seems like it would be hard Yeah this is something I've thought about too. I donated to a few campaigns (esp. ones endorsed by Bernie) this cycle and the result was that my throwaway email inbox got jammed with zillions of requests for money daily, it became just a wall of noise that made me not want to donate anything to anybody. Instead of using email blasts, what if there was just an app that let me set a weekly spending limit or something, and would match me with candidates based on their/my stances. It would then pop up a notification once per week (or whatever selectable frequency) prompting to make the weekly contribution instead of the constant email pinging. I could check in on my selected candidates periodically, to see their twitter feeds or whatever. The app would also help me register to vote, let me know when early / vote by mail voting has begun, and make sure I have successfully voted. And then after election day it would let me know how well my candidates did. If millions of people started using such an app then the candidates would be beholden to the people instead of a few large donors. And the app would be a huge help with GOTV, identifying who has already voted so you don't need to waste resources contacting them.
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Nov 28, 2016 23:22
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Hey fuckers according to MY GIRLFRIEND "lemon bars are cookies because they have a shortbread bottom which is a cookie and the lemon part is just like toppings" and she knows
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Nov 28, 2016 23:22
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frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:Hey fuckers according to MY GIRLFRIEND "lemon bars are cookies because they have a shortbread bottom which is a cookie and the lemon part is just like toppings" and she knows sry bout your impending probation
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Nov 28, 2016 23:24
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zegermans posted:I feel like we just had an election that demonstrated that this was not the case. thats exactly wrong? hillary clinton lost because rural voters with lovely economic conditions voted against her despite the massive amount of messaging about how terrible trump was. they flocked to the candidate who addressed their material conditions as opposed to the one who didn't and said "america is already great".
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Nov 28, 2016 23:25
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Agean90 posted:when an epic rap battle of history video does a better job of bragging about your candidate you have a problem. Why do you feel the fact that she was a member of the cabinet when they took out Bin Laden is a reason to vote for her? Is there some news I'm unaware of that she personally exerted some type of influence or had some bright idea that led to his death? If anything that would just be a reminder that she really enjoys droning brown people to death.
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Nov 28, 2016 23:25
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zegermans posted:sry bout your impending probation It's worth it to spread the good word of lemon bars Thoguh posted:If anything that would just be a reminder that she really enjoys droning brown people to death. If anything this would pick up some Trump voters
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Nov 28, 2016 23:26
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loquacius posted:I liked the cabinet meeting rap battles though https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUC2EQvdzmY
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Nov 28, 2016 23:26
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Rastor posted:Yeah this is something I've thought about too. I donated to a few campaigns (esp. ones endorsed by Bernie) this cycle and the result was that my throwaway email inbox got jammed with zillions of requests for money daily, it became just a wall of noise that made me not want to donate anything to anybody. what if instead we crowd sourced lobbying?
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Nov 28, 2016 23:28
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frakeaing HAMSTER DANCE posted:Hey fuckers according to MY GIRLFRIEND "lemon bars are cookies because they have a shortbread bottom which is a cookie and the lemon part is just like toppings" and she knows it's a tart, extremely technically I don't think anyone would say a tart is a cookie e: and the bottom is usually more of a pie crust than a shortbread cookie
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Nov 28, 2016 23:37
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loquacius posted:Fittingly one of the things that irrationally irritated me the most about Hamilton was the rah-rah New York nationalism but nyc is the best city in the world™ well at least thats what they keep telling me
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Nov 28, 2016 23:37
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Stexils posted:thats exactly wrong? hillary clinton lost because rural voters with lovely economic conditions voted against her despite the massive amount of messaging about how terrible trump was. they flocked to the candidate who addressed their material conditions as opposed to the one who didn't and said "america is already great". Yup. Trump basically lost in a huge manner everywhere the economy was doing well and won in a big manner everywhere it wasn't. The sad fact of the matter is small towns are not where the economy is anymore.
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Nov 28, 2016 23:38
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Lactose Is Wack posted:what if instead we crowd sourced lobbying? I've always wondered about the viability of something like this but it falls apart the moment you try to actually use the money. Like, it is  illegal to pay a politician directly to vote a certain way, but lobbyists dodge around this with gifts and nepotism and the like. (At least, that was my understanding of it.)I'd like to see a portion of taxes become discretionary. Instead of throwing my entire contribution into the war machine, I want to check a little box on my tax forms that says "single payer healthcare". But in the end, allowing people control over contributions would probably result in even more military spending in reality, so...
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Nov 28, 2016 23:41
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Nameless_Steve posted:ABSOLUTELY. I campaigned my rear end off in Florida, and we did a fantastic job on the ground where they sent us, squeezing every last vote out of the blue counties. But this war was lost by the generals, and they lost it in the air with their ineffective advertisements and weak messaging. I wish you had been her ad person instead of the person who was, even if I do dislike TPP at least this isnt the weak poo poo thats all I saw this election from her campaign. Also as far as the App goes I have been thinking about it as well and I think some sort of "WhatsAtStake" thing that just updates you periodically on a major difference between a local candidate and their opponent. Keep things bite sized, keep it relevant, spread it out, give them the opportunity to share each nugget on facebook or twitter and maximize the "get registered, hit the polls" effect. Also each one includes a date to vote and their voting location, includng primaries and local elections which are often off cycle.
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Nov 28, 2016 23:42
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Thoguh posted:Why do you feel the fact that she was a member of the cabinet when they took out Bin Laden is a reason to vote for her? Is there some news I'm unaware of that she personally exerted some type of influence or had some bright idea that led to his death? Yes because we all know how much americans hate it when people are droned. Trump hammered that he was a stronger leader and fear of Isis was a driving factor for many trump voters. Saying "bitch I killed Bin Laden, you ain't done poo poo" how much of a role she had is irrelevant, what is is that she claim a part in getting something done that the majority of Americans (especially in trumps camp) would regard as a good thing. Ultimately though, she had enough things wrong with her campaign (lets use reverse psychology in Wisconsin lol) that a change in how she presented herself likely wouldn't have changed the outcome dramatically without change elsewhere so I'm pretty much just bullshittin v  v
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Nov 28, 2016 23:43
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Also the app wouldnt fix the problem that cost us this election, but bringing more attention to local races might help us fill our bench years down the road
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Nov 28, 2016 23:45
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Agean90 posted:Yes because we all know how much americans hate it when people are droned. But she didn't kill Bin Laden. Some navy seal did. And Obama gave the command. She was just around for it. Like I said, is there some info out there that indicates she was more than a passive observer?
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Nov 28, 2016 23:45
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Thoguh posted:But she didn't kill Bin Laden. Some navy seal did. And Obama gave the command. She was just around for it. Like I said, is there some info out there that indicates she was more than a passive observer? Doesn't matter. It's all about making yourself look good
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Nov 28, 2016 23:47
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Hillary Clinton personally controlled those seal agents like they were rc cars only burlier and far less charming
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Nov 28, 2016 23:53
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Agean90 posted:Ultimately though, she had enough things wrong with her campaign (lets use reverse psychology in Wisconsin lol) that a change in how she presented herself likely wouldn't have changed the outcome dramatically without change elsewhere so I'm pretty much just bullshittin v Small Quibble, the campaign justified their lovely spending in Michigan to "psyche-out" the Trump campaign. Wisconsin they just ignored.
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Nov 28, 2016 23:55
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GlyphGryph posted:Also the app wouldnt fix the problem that cost us this election, but bringing more attention to local races might help us fill our bench years down the road Exactly, it's long term thinking. Corporatist neoliberals say "we have to court the banks and other large donors, staffing the phonebanks to call rich people all day long, otherwise we can't afford campaigns". Fill the bench with candidates who got $5 and $10 donations through an app without attending black tie fundraisers and the third way corporatists get squeezed out.
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Nov 28, 2016 23:56
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Powercrazy posted:Small Quibble, the campaign justified their lovely spending in Michigan to "psyche-out" the Trump campaign. Wisconsin they just ignored. I knew it was one of those states but I forgot which one, thank you for the correction.  0
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Nov 28, 2016 23:57
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Thoguh posted:But she didn't kill Bin Laden. Some navy seal did. And Obama gave the command. She was just around for it. Like I said, is there some info out there that indicates she was more than a passive observer? being in a position of authority while something happens means you were personally and wholly responsible for it, good or bad. this is always how politics is
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Nov 28, 2016 23:58
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Nameless_Steve posted:Hillary is a bad campaigner who would have made a terrific president. To be fair, she got more votes than any white man in US history. She merely lost by thin margins in the wrong states. Literally because there's more people. If you go by percentage she did moderate at best. This year was a 20 year low for turnout. If you go back to the VRA, it's in the bottom third of all elections.
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Nov 28, 2016 23:59
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Fullhouse posted:being in a position of authority while something happens means you were personally and wholly responsible for it, good or bad. this is always how politics is My point was that she wasn't in a position of authority over that mission unless there is some info about it that I haven't seen (which I'm admitting is possible and I'm happy to be corrected). She was an observer. Like, Tom Vilsack can't go around claiming he killed Bin Laden. So claiming she was would just open up her up to more attacks about being fake and claiming other people's successes as her own.
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Nov 29, 2016 00:02
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Thoguh posted:But she didn't kill Bin Laden. Some navy seal did. And Obama gave the command. She was just around for it. Like I said, is there some info out there that indicates she was more than a passive observer? Hillary was probably in the "drop a bomb on his house" camp anyway.
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Nov 29, 2016 00:05
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Thoguh posted:But she didn't kill Bin Laden. Some navy seal did. And Obama gave the command. She was just around for it. Like I said, is there some info out there that indicates she was more than a passive observer? I remember reading that Obama was wishy-washy on it, was going to decide against it, and Hillary pushed him to do it.
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Nov 29, 2016 00:06
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GlyphGryph posted:Also the app wouldnt fix the problem that cost us this election, but bringing more attention to local races might help us fill our bench years down the road yeah I was thinking about it mostly in terms of affecting local and off-year elections and primaries. But, I mean, just doing something is important in and of itself. There is a lot of time to go until 2018 even, and making sure every american leftist that doesn't live in a city is engaged in a positive way is, at the very least, helpful. Also maybe the "donor class" can also stop playing this thing like it's the Olympics a corrupt official has issued a correction as of 00:24 on Nov 29, 2016 |
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Nov 29, 2016 00:12
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Is there anything that spells out what all the money donated to Hillary's campaign and to her superpacs was spent on? Where did it go?
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Nov 29, 2016 00:13
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Fulchrum posted:If it has flour and sugar and can fit in your hand it's a freaking cookie. i love me some cookies 
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Nov 29, 2016 00:19
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Get that scone out of here
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Nov 29, 2016 00:24
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That's a dinner roll idiots.
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Nov 29, 2016 00:28
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Nanomashoes posted:That's a dinner roll idiots. Thanks dad.
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Nov 29, 2016 00:39
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Nameless_Steve posted:ABSOLUTELY. I campaigned my rear end off in Florida, and we did a fantastic job on the ground where they sent us, squeezing every last vote out of the blue counties. But this war was lost by the generals, and they lost it in the air with their ineffective advertisements and weak messaging. You would have lost too. The issue wasn't that Trump didn't have enough bad press. It's that Democrats didn't get out and vote. Obama had 69m voters in 2008 where there were 28m fewer eligible voters. Clinton will be lucky if she matches his number, despite the national eligible voters being like 13% higher. Every Democrat knows Trump is a piece of poo poo and after 2008 there's a fuckton of legacy Democrats, many of whom helped campaign. Hell, lots of republicans do too. But Clinton didn't give people anything to vote for. She proposed crazy bureaucracies for new college students combined with hilariously tone deaf ideas for everyone who already has debt (all of which doesn't even begin to address private loans). She couldn't even come out for a 15 dollar minimum wage or single payer. And it's not like she's oozing charisma so she can bullshit her way in. Everyone who voted FOR Hillary just because we hated/feared/disliked Trump (I'm in that bucket) already did so, but that's not quite the huge population you think it is that will vote solely for that reason. Some conservatives won't vote for that reason, which is part of what we saw with republican turn out. But getting out the vote means getting people to drive cars, volunteer, and make sure every possible voter who's touched the campaign gets to the polls. The issue is you need to win Democrats who only vote for poo poo, and Clinton gave them nothing to vote for. Obama ignored many promises, but the promises he made during the campaign were pretty simple. Close Gitmo. Get a public option. End the war in Iraq. I've lived in the rust belt. Every four years you're completely drowned in campaign ads for the presidency. The issue wasn't just getting the message through that Trump was bad. Plenty of PACs put out ads saying that much. The issue is getting people to vote and care and "he's really lovely" doesn't really work for everyone. People who vote every single election no matter what will vote against Trump if that's their inclination, but that can't be your sole source.
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Nov 29, 2016 00:47
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Fullhouse posted:being in a position of authority while something happens means you were personally and wholly responsible for it, good or bad. this is always how politics is You don't speak to many conservatives do you? They blame every Bush era policy failure and debt on Obama and are about to blame him for when republicans gut medicare after he's in office.
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Nov 29, 2016 00:52
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obama let 9/11 happen on his watch, trump won't let that happen again
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Nov 29, 2016 00:54
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