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mugrim posted:As crazy as those who said she might lose to trump, or crazier than that? Denial isn't crazy friend, just funny.
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Nov 29, 2016 01:00
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Nonsense posted:Denial isn't crazy friend, just funny. tbf, If she did run in 2020 that engine would be run on 93 octane denial.
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Nov 29, 2016 01:02
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Something to keep in mind is that democrats are so dead at a national level and state level... and yet so dominant at a municipal level... the party may need to start looking at big city mayors for its next generation of talent. So far no US president has ever been elected whose highest office was mayor. Grover Cleveland is the only president who formerly held the office of mayor at one point.
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Nov 29, 2016 01:12
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Mental-Rectangle posted:Something to keep in mind is that democrats are so dead at a national level and state level... and yet so dominant at a municipal level... the party may need to start looking at big city mayors for its next generation of talent. i really wouldn't feel comfortable electing someone from a mayoral background without higher experience, especially federal experience. municipal politics are a cesspool of cronyism and they are not really good preparation for federal office. even if some mayoral candidate was literally perfect in every way ideologically, i don't think they'd make a good president.
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Nov 29, 2016 01:16
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a big city mayor would still have way more loving experience than our President-Elect has so I don't see much to your objection
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Nov 29, 2016 01:17
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Municipal politics is where national trends mean nearly nothing unless you take down a machine candidate and somehow find yourself in power with no backing.
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Nov 29, 2016 01:18
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I think people expect way too much out of the president and that we should absolutely not take the approach that only "the anointed" should be considered qualified. Imo if you can get elected president, you deserve your shot at it. We should also make sure the primary system is public and open and not a foregone conclusion. Because that is where training for president should begin. ate shit on live tv has issued a correction as of 01:21 on Nov 29, 2016 |
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Nov 29, 2016 01:18
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Well What Now posted:a big city mayor would still have way more loving experience than our President-Elect has so I don't see much to your objection yes well i didn't exactly vote for donald trump
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Nov 29, 2016 01:19
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Mental-Rectangle posted:Something to keep in mind is that democrats are so dead at a national level and state level... and yet so dominant at a municipal level... the party may need to start looking at big city mayors for its next generation of talent. Governors of small time states are frankly about as important as big city mayors though so they could play that card.
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Nov 29, 2016 01:19
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that buffalo wild wings manager that was hand-picked for trump university will run for president in 2024
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Nov 29, 2016 01:32
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logikv9 posted:that buffalo wild wings manager that was hand-picked for trump university will run for president in 2024 Is that the same manager that didn't let a veteran have his free meal because a MAGAT told the manager he was playing dress-up
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Nov 29, 2016 01:35
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Nonsense posted:Is that the same manager that didn't let a veteran have his free meal because a MAGAT told the manager he was playing dress-up wrong chain restaurant
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Nov 29, 2016 01:36
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Well What Now posted:a big city mayor would still have way more loving experience than our President-Elect has so I don't see much to your objection Berlusconi ran for Prime Minister in a similar (arguably worse) situation and he ended up winning three elections. Trump could easily win two if he is well liked by his base.
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Nov 29, 2016 01:40
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SNAKES N CAKES posted:Berlusconi ran for Prime Minister in a similar (arguably worse) situation and he ended up winning three elections. Trump could easily win two if he is well liked by his base. to win another election Trump will have to make it through the next four years without going completely mad given his behavior so far, I'm not sure he can even manage that
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Nov 29, 2016 01:48
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ya'll are all forgetting the impending financial meltdown of 2018 which will force all elections to be put on hold
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Nov 29, 2016 01:50
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okay just spit balling here... 2020 democratic primary... ivanka trump
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Nov 29, 2016 01:52
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Concerned Citizen posted:i really wouldn't feel comfortable electing someone from a mayoral background without higher experience, especially federal experience. municipal politics are a cesspool of cronyism and they are not really good preparation for federal office. even if some mayoral candidate was literally perfect in every way ideologically, i don't think they'd make a good president. Municipal politicians are often far more responsive to their constituencies than state or federal. Corruption happens at all levels of government, and you're probably more likely to find untainted stalwarts at a local level. Someone who's been in Congress or a Governorship for 20 years is gonna have blood on their hands.
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Nov 29, 2016 01:53
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what's kwame kilpatrick up to
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Nov 29, 2016 01:53
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Lincoln Chafee 2020: His Dad Can't Die Twice
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Nov 29, 2016 01:57
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Well What Now posted:to win another election Trump will have to make it through the next four years without going completely mad Berlusconi won 3 elections because of the incompetence and disorganization of his opposition. In fact the parallels are quite strong, the more liberals attacked his temperament and personality, the stronger they made him. Democrats can't count on Trump to implode or be a weak candidate in a reelection just because he's Trump. They have to treat him as a serious opponent and stick to the issues when campaigning against him. I seriously think it will be harder in 4 years. This was the time to take him out, while he was still a failed businessman. Next time he'll be a president.
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Nov 29, 2016 02:00
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Mental-Rectangle posted:Municipal politicians are often far more responsive to their constituencies than state or federal. Corruption happens at all levels of government, and you're probably more likely to find untainted stalwarts at a local level. Someone who's been in Congress or a Governorship for 20 years is gonna have blood on their hands. that's not really true. local politics are generally havens for corruption because 1. no one is paying attention and 2. local politicians have more discretion to steer taxpayer dollars toward friends and family than state and federal politicians. politicians like divincenzo in new jersey, buddy cianci in providence (rip), joe ganim in bridgeport, dwight jones in richmond, and the daleys in chicago have repeatedly demonstrated that cronyism is the quickest way to success at the municipal level. it's really the exact opposite of what you claim - federal and to a lesser extent state politics are generally fairly clean compared to mayoral politics.
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Nov 29, 2016 02:04
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In 2020, Gavin Newsom will have been governor of California for two years.
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Nov 29, 2016 02:29
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Concerned Citizen posted:that's not really true. local politics are generally havens for corruption because 1. no one is paying attention and 2. local politicians have more discretion to steer taxpayer dollars toward friends and family than state and federal politicians. politicians like divincenzo in new jersey, buddy cianci in providence (rip), joe ganim in bridgeport, dwight jones in richmond, and the daleys in chicago have repeatedly demonstrated that cronyism is the quickest way to success at the municipal level. Nah cities like Chicago and Providence are the bottom of the barrel. The average congressman receives a level of special interest money an order of magnitude higher than the examples you're citing. I think you're echoing truisms but not applying the same critical lens to federal representatives. What was Congress's approval rating again? Do you really feel like your interests are better represented at a federal level? The big ticket economic and social issues sail over the municipal level. As a result the dirty cash that shows up in city government goes to small beans corruption. Who gives a poo poo about a bridge or a train or a bit of nepotism here or there, compared to ramping up private prisons, deregulating banks, subsidizing fossil fuels, preventing UHC, etc... those are the big issues that matter and finding people who aren't tainted by corporate money or backroom deals on those issues is hard at local, but harder at federal, and hardest at state. Proportion is important. Granted my city is run by communists, and my state and federal representatives are republicans thanks to gerrymandering. YMMV.
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Nov 29, 2016 02:33
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Someone asked about the problems with Al Franken and I'll say that the first thing that to mind is his positions on Telecom and net neutrality. It's not the only thing, but it's the first thing. It's about as bad as you'd expect from someone who's worked in television for years. Also like Michael Moore, he's kind of a polarizing "culture war" figure of the 2004 era despite his Midwestern roots. A year ago I dismissed the idea of a Bernie 2020 campaign if he loses in 2016 because of Sanders' age. But now the Democrats nominating a old-as-gently caress socialist seems like the least terrible idea for 2020. But in every scenario I see, it seems like Trump has the best hand for reelection.
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Nov 29, 2016 02:56
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Mental-Rectangle posted:Berlusconi won 3 elections because of the incompetence and disorganization of his opposition. In fact the parallels are quite strong, the more liberals attacked his temperament and personality, the stronger they made him. it's gonna be hella dependent on how badly trump does in his first term if obamacare goes away and taxes on 80% of americans go up (so taxes on 1% of americans can go down), and those jobs don't come back, or more jobs go away or if the economy turns into dogshit or whatever but there are a lot of americans who seemed (and still seem) SUPER enthusiastic for trump, who aren't actually rabid supporters that would murder a dog if he asked them to, they are just excited at the idea that someone might actually do something to help them, they're that desperate for help, that desperate to be free of the twisting hell world and slow slide into shame and oblivion that their life has become to them, trump sold them a bill of goods, if he don't deliver the american voter is gonna chase him out of washington with torches and pitchforks
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Nov 29, 2016 03:13
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Karl Barks posted:what's kwame kilpatrick up to Killa trick/Enter 2020
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Nov 29, 2016 03:17
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Vox Nihili posted:In 2020, Gavin Newsom will have been governor of California for two years. how many prostitutes has he exsanguinated in the process in his tarped up bathroom with a bucketful of lye and bleach during that time?
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Nov 29, 2016 03:17
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KRock posted:I sincerely hope neither of them (Clinton and Sanders) run again. I would be shocked if Bernie made a second run at the presidency, barring something unprecedented in the next four years. I agree that it would be a terrible idea for Hillary to try yet again, and I don't think she will, but then I thought she might just have learned anything at all from the pasting she took in 2008 but whelp here we are.
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Nov 29, 2016 03:20
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Captain_Maclaine posted:I would be shocked if Bernie made a second run at the presidency, barring something unprecedented in the next four years. I agree that it would be a terrible idea for Hillary to try yet again, and I don't think she will, but then I thought she might just have learned anything at all from the pasting she took in 2008 but whelp here we are. she's already grooming Chelsea for the senate, all her hopes and dreams rest upon her child now.
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Nov 29, 2016 03:20
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Mental-Rectangle posted:Something to keep in mind is that democrats are so dead at a national level and state level... and yet so dominant at a municipal level... the party may need to start looking at big city mayors for its next generation of talent. Democrats are only dominant at the municipal level if they're running for office in a big city that's 6:1 democrats. Go for a drive to any small town USA, or even a 2nd ring suburb of a major city and you'll find the city council filled with republicans. There are 67 counties in Pennsylvania, I'd be surprised if democrats have control of 15.
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Nov 29, 2016 03:28
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Mental-Rectangle posted:Nah cities like Chicago and Providence are the bottom of the barrel. The average congressman receives a level of special interest money an order of magnitude higher than the examples you're citing. I think you're echoing truisms but not applying the same critical lens to federal representatives. What was Congress's approval rating again? Do you really feel like your interests are better represented at a federal level? i mean, you're just really totally overestimating the amount of corruption at the federal level vs. local level. nearly all public corruption arrests happen at the local level. there's certainly a lot of money floating around congress to influence, although there's also the very obvious reality that most people in congress are not in competitive districts and don't need campaign funds to get reelected. there are a few blatant examples of corruption (like the jack abramoff stuff) but it's fairly rare and members of congress tend to be under fairly heavy scrutiny. maybe your mayor does represent your particular interests more than your congressman (if only because the mayor deals with more issues that actually personally affect your life) but it's hardly uncommon to see local politics totally dominated by moneyed developers and special interests to a degree that would make most federal politicians blush. and even if the local politicians are not intentionally corrupt, they are often mislead by more sophisticated actors - for example, does that sewer plant need a $2 million bond or can it be constructed at a fraction of the price? local gov does not often have resources to suss out when they're being lied to. quote:The big ticket economic and social issues sail over the municipal level. As a result the dirty cash that shows up in city government goes to small beans corruption. Who gives a poo poo about a bridge or a train or a bit of nepotism here or there, compared to ramping up private prisons, deregulating banks, subsidizing fossil fuels, preventing UHC, etc... those are the big issues that matter and finding people who aren't tainted by corporate money or backroom deals on those issues is hard at local, but harder at federal, and hardest at state. it might shock you to learn that members of congress don't vote for private prisons, deregulating banks, subsidizing fossil fuels, and preventing UHC because they're corrupt. they do it because they actually believe in those things. money in politics is an issue, but right-wing ideology is actually the thing destroying america.
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Nov 29, 2016 03:49
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Concerned Citizen posted:i mean, you're just really totally overestimating the amount of corruption at the federal level vs. local level. nearly all public corruption arrests happen at the local level. there's certainly a lot of money floating around congress to influence, although there's also the very obvious reality that most people in congress are not in competitive districts and don't need campaign funds to get reelected. there are a few blatant examples of corruption (like the jack abramoff stuff) but it's fairly rare and members of congress tend to be under fairly heavy scrutiny. Why was Hillary so against single payer and a 15 dollar minimum wage? Those are undeniably good things, yet she only reluctantly wanted to support them. Why does Obama refuse to federally decriminalize weed or even speak about an alternative? Why does Obama lionize the law enforcement in North Dakota instead of calling them out for being the pieces if poo poo they are? Is it corruption, spinelessness, or actual personal belief? Basically why does every single president in the modern era refuse to stand up for literally anything even when they unilaterally have the power to stop it?
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Nov 29, 2016 04:05
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Concerned Citizen posted:i mean, you're just really totally overestimating the amount of corruption at the federal level vs. local level. nearly all public corruption arrests happen at the local level. Just to give a sample of this: San Antonio has 1.5-2.2m people depending on how you measure the city and what year you use. Up until last year, city council members earned under 1k a year. They were hired by large law firms and real estate developers as "Community outreach" and that would be how they'd earn their paychecks, as literal bought lobbyists who were elected. Even now they earn like 30-50k from their salary, and continue to remain in these community outreach positions because people just assume that's normal and acceptable.
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Nov 29, 2016 04:07
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It sure is a coincidence that dems that take giant donations from banks are flacid and ineffective at coming down hard on them.
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Nov 29, 2016 04:10
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Mental-Rectangle posted:Nah cities like Chicago and Providence are the bottom of the barrel. The average congressman receives a level of special interest money an order of magnitude higher than the examples you're citing.\ It's funny that you think the amount of money is in any way tied to the amount of corruption.
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Nov 29, 2016 04:17
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Powercrazy posted:Why was Hillary so against single payer and a 15 dollar minimum wage? Those are undeniably good things, yet she only reluctantly wanted to support them. Why does Obama refuse to federally decriminalize weed or even speak about an alternative? Why does Obama lionize the law enforcement in North Dakota instead of calling them out for being the pieces if poo poo they are? i mean, there's certainly a combination of political expediency, personal belief, and a desire by politicians to pick battles they think they can win. i don't think obama likes the idea of decriminalizing/legalizing weed, i don't think hillary decided she was for $12/h instead of $15/h because she got a certain amount of political contributions. i mean, realistically neither single payer nor $15/h (or probably even $12/h) were going to happen under president clinton or president sanders or president jesus christ. but ultimately, i think the thing here is that you say these are "undeniably good things." yet i would guess that about 2/3rds of congress would deny both of those. just because you think a thing is true does not mean that everyone else agrees with you, and that doesn't mean that the only reason a thing didn't happen was corruption.
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Nov 29, 2016 04:54
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Hillary was not against single payer, she said it wouldn't happen. There is a giant difference here. As for why she thought it couldn't happen, firsthand experience from when she fought tooth and nail to try and get it in the 90s, only for the end result to be America hating her and the birth of the anti-Hillary conspiracy Bs industry.
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Nov 29, 2016 04:59
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Fulchrum posted:Hillary was not against single payer, she said it wouldn't happen. lol
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Nov 29, 2016 05:05
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It's a real good sentence because it basically sums up the democratic party imo.
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Nov 29, 2016 05:09
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Homeless Friend posted:It's a real good sentence because it basically sums up the democratic party imo. You do realise that is the exact same attitude that "christian" filmmakers take when they have an atheist character break down and rant that they know the undeniable truth that God is real, but they just hate Him sooooo much!
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Nov 29, 2016 05:11
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