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Schwarzwald posted:Whatever faults Chancellor Palpatine had, the man knew how to conduct himself. His magnetic personality insulated him from all resistance. People didn't see his huge capacity for evil, only his dynamism. They were attracted to his power.
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Dec 1, 2016 00:22
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Cnut the Great posted:That's the Force making its will known
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Dec 1, 2016 00:34
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CelticPredator posted:I always felt sad for the squealing guard who gets eaten by the Rancor. Same here. I'm pretty desensitized to violence in movies, but 30 years later I still fast forward past that bit almost every time.
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Dec 1, 2016 00:58
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ruddiger posted:What did you think of the pig guard that Luke chokes to death right before that scene? Were you as empathic? No, I was not. One is presented sad (crying) and one is presented as opposition to our hero. Also, again, I was a child, much like you are now.
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Dec 1, 2016 01:08
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Dec 1, 2016 01:20
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Halloween Jack posted:What is the Force? mass times acceleration
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Dec 1, 2016 02:11
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Halloween Jack posted:What is the Force? The Force is the divine. It's something out there, above us, greater than us, unknowable in its entirety so long as we remain in a state apart from it as differentiated individuals. It's what every major religion deals with. No one really knows exactly what it is. You don't even have to be religious to grasp the concept. I'm not. There's definitely some greater truth about the universe out there that's more powerful than any of us, and which ties everything together in a way that none of us can never truly know or understand, at least not in our current state as human beings. The Force in Star Wars is just a vague, mushy signifier of that idea. It deals with the basic aspects of the divine that every religion seems to agree on. One of the things all the major religions agree on (as far as I know) is that nothing happens by accident. That doesn't even have to imply any sort of intentionality on the part of the universe. For instance, the Buddha rejected the concept of luck simply on the grounds that it's a semantically meaningless model of reality--everything is much better understood through the lens of simple cause and effect, on the basis of which karma operates. That's why Lucas outlines two main sides, or ways of looking at the Force, in Star Wars. There's the Cosmic Force (which is only alluded to conceptually in the films), which is formless and unchanging and has a will, and represents a view of the universe as governed by a personal intelligence--and there's the Living Force, which is more like qi or prana, and is more of a collective, ever-shifting life energy, which flows and changes into many different discrete physical forms and which lacks a sole intentionality, its energies instead being shaped and directed and pulled in many different directions by the individual life-forms who embody and harness its power. Far from being overly complicated and unnecessary gobbledygook, it was a necessary and basic distinction Lucas needed to introduce into the series in order to adequately deal with the issues at the heart of the world's religions which have animated debates since almost the dawn of the written language: that is, the conflict between the concepts of fate and free will. This issue is briefly brushed upon even in A New Hope: quote:BEN The prequels are much more explicitly about this conflict, and in fact the first major exchange of the series is directly about this: quote:QUI-GON : Don't center on your anxiety, Obi-Wan. Keep your concentration This dialogue exchange is crucial to understanding the fundamental issues of the series as a whole: How much should one worry about the future, and how much should one simply live in the present? How much are we the playthings of greater forces of destiny beyond our control, and how much are we responsible for our own actions in the moment? Is it maybe equal parts of both, and if so where is the proper balance to be found?
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Dec 1, 2016 02:51
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Cnut the Great posted:The Force is the divine. It's something out there, above us, greater than us, unknowable in its entirety so long as we remain in a state apart from it as differentiated individuals. It's what every major religion deals with. No one really knows exactly what it is. You don't even have to be religious to grasp the concept. I'm not. There's definitely some greater truth about the universe out there that's more powerful than any of us, and which ties everything together in a way that none of us can never truly know or understand, at least not in our current state as human beings. Um, I thought the Force was just same made up religious junk and Jedi were mutants.
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Dec 1, 2016 02:58
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UmOk posted:Um, I thought the Force was just same made up religious junk and Jedi were mutants. There's no reason that the Force can't be both a real mystical energy field and wrongly interpreted by the Jedi religion.
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Dec 1, 2016 03:01
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Serf posted:There's no reason that the Force can't be both a real mystical energy field and wrongly interpreted by the Jedi religion. Ah, but there's also no reason that it can't be an entirely made up concept used to explain the unexplainable. You think jedi are creationist? Do they believe the force created the universe and breathed life into the first sentient creature?
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Dec 1, 2016 03:32
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UmOk posted:Ah, but there's also no reason that it can't be an entirely made up concept used to explain the unexplainable. You think jedi are creationist? Do they believe the force created the universe and breathed life into the first sentient creature? Midichlorians did it
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Dec 1, 2016 03:42
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UmOk posted:Ah, but there's also no reason that it can't be an entirely made up concept used to explain the unexplainable. You think jedi are creationist? Do they believe the force created the universe and breathed life into the first sentient creature? Actually, it's the other way around. The Force is created by life.
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Dec 1, 2016 03:45
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UmOk posted:Ah, but there's also no reason that it can't be an entirely made up concept used to explain the unexplainable. You think jedi are creationist? Do they believe the force created the universe and breathed life into the first sentient creature? I've read this post a couple times and I think you're agreeing with me that the Jedi have a hosed up religion that wrongly interprets the Force.
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Dec 1, 2016 03:46
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Serf posted:I've read this post a couple times and I think you're agreeing with me that the Jedi have a hosed up religion that wrongly interprets the Force. Kinda. I'm saying some people were born with weird telekinetic powers and used religion to explain it. Like on Earth. Why are we here? Because Xenu/god/odin/allah/zues/grumpy cat put us here. Edit: I was just thinking about force ghosts. Does anyone ever see them other than Luke? UmOk fucked around with this message at 06:07 on Dec 1, 2016 |
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Dec 1, 2016 06:04
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UmOk posted:Edit: I was just thinking about force ghosts. Does anyone ever see them other than Luke? Films only? Or are EU (Legends or Canon) sources allowed? Just from the films, Yoda responds to the voice of ghost Obi-Wan.
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Dec 1, 2016 06:27
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Qui Gon yells something when Anakin starts carving up that Tuskan village. Not sure if that counts or not.
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Dec 1, 2016 06:37
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UmOk posted:Edit: I was just thinking about force ghosts. Does anyone ever see them other than Luke? Yoda tells Obiwan that he's been speaking with Quigon at the end of Revenge of the Sith.
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Dec 1, 2016 08:07
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Qui-Gon discovered, or maybe rediscovered, how to survive death. His was the first Force ghost, and Yoda heard his voice in Revenge of the Sith. The suggestion is that Yoda and Obi-Wan learned from him. No diegetic explanation is given for how Anakin figured it out.
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Dec 1, 2016 08:26
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I always took Anakin becoming a Force ghost right off the bat as "Anakin had access to Game Genie codes at birth and never had to learn this poo poo, because he was the chosen one".
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Dec 1, 2016 08:43
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Anakin is the dovahkiin
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Dec 1, 2016 09:34
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I'm glad that Rogue One will feature no Jedi because I never understood what the great fuss about them is. None of the movies so far did anything to justify why Jedi and Sith are such game-changers in war. I mean... Luke is handy with a sword and he can move small objects with his mind, but that's not exactly galaxy-shaking stuff. I can't think of anything he did that a regular human couldn't have done. As best as I can tell, in Return of the Jedi he distracts the Emperor while the rebels destroy the Death Star. Had he not been there, the Emperor would have fled when he saw the shield had fallen. Killing the Emperor was more important than the Death Star because he was the political center of the Empire. In the prequel trilogy, the Jedi are a very influential body with a lot of power and money, but the movies don't justify why the Republic thought the Jedi Order should receive so much authority and power. Has anybody played the first Knights of the Old Republic game? Remember Bastila Shan? She is the only Jedi I know in all the lore for whom the bad guys have excellent reasons to hunt: she has the supernatural power to demoralize an enemy army. A mega buff/debuff spell that can affect thousands of targets at once. Such a person is definitely more useful than even a Death Star, because her power can be applied to any sort of battle on land or in space.
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Dec 1, 2016 11:34
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Human drama is more interesting than 'who has the biggest superpower' tactical realism bullshit. Most of the EU and videogames got this wrong.
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Dec 1, 2016 12:59
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I think maybe at the end of the Clone War Yoda discovered degobah and the hallucinogenic mushrooms that made him think he was talking to qui gon. Psychedelic drugs would explain his rapid deterioration into insanity. Then when Luke got to degobah he started eating them and eventually started to see dead people. Do the force ghosts ever tell them anything they don't already know?
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Dec 1, 2016 14:53
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Kurzon posted:I'm glad that Rogue One will feature no Jedi because I never understood what the great fuss about them is. None of the movies so far did anything to justify why Jedi and Sith are such game-changers in war. They are game-changers in peace because of their detachment and their ability to influence the minds of individuals at the levers of power throughout the galaxy. In fight, a Jedi is apparently worth between three and twenty soldiers; on the other hand, they are willing and able to leap from heights and moving vehicles with confidence in a safe landing, strike at vital weak points (as both Skywalker and Kenobi do to the Death Star in ANH, Skywalker is able to do to AT-ATs, et cetera), and have limited precognition. UmOk posted:Do the force ghosts ever tell them anything they don't already know? "Luke! You will go to the Dagobah system. There you will learn from Yoda, the Jedi Master who instructed me."
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Dec 1, 2016 15:08
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UmOk posted:I think maybe at the end of the Clone War Yoda discovered degobah and the hallucinogenic mushrooms that made him think he was talking to qui gon. Psychedelic drugs would explain his rapid deterioration into insanity. Then when Luke got to degobah he started eating them and eventually started to see dead people. You don't need drugs to get ptsd after years of war end with all your friends and colleagues dead. Some sort of mental breakdown is inevitable.
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Dec 1, 2016 15:20
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Cnut the Great posted:The Force is the divine. It's something out there, above us, greater than us, unknowable in its entirety so long as we remain in a state apart from it as differentiated individuals. It's what every major religion deals with. No one really knows exactly what it is. You don't even have to be religious to grasp the concept. I'm not. There's definitely some greater truth about the universe out there that's more powerful than any of us, and which ties everything together in a way that none of us can never truly know or understand, at least not in our current state as human beings.
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Dec 1, 2016 15:42
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sassassin posted:Human drama is more interesting than 'who has the biggest superpower' tactical realism bullshit. On the other hand, it's a lot more fun to cast Force Lightning than Force Rhetoric.
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Dec 1, 2016 15:45
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Kurzon posted:I can't think of anything he did that a regular human couldn't have done. This whole page has been a discussion of a special subset of a special subset of people who have the ability to achieve life after death.
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Dec 1, 2016 15:50
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Yaws posted:No, he goes so far it's comical and not in a good way. That hammy acting he does when he's electrocuting himself is just the worst I have never disagreed more with any post on these Awful forums. The prequels were complete garbage except for McDiarmid's 110% dive into awesomeness. He was clearly having the time of his life there, and it came across as genuine. As much as one could in such a role.
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Dec 1, 2016 17:16
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Cnut the Great posted:Not entirely. The reason it's funny is because it actually makes you empathize with the rancor keeper for a moment and feel kind of sad about the rancor's death, who up to that point was presented as nothing but a vicious, heartless monster. It's a small bit of black humor which evokes the larger themes of the film. George Lucas singles that moment out on the DVD commentary as something he personally thought to put in the movie, because he liked the idea that even a creature like the rancor had someone who cared about him. It's a sincere moment that becomes humorous because it's such an out-of-nowhere tonal right-turn. The essence of humor is its ability to subvert your expectations and jar you out of traditional thought patterns. I thought it was funny because it was a shirtless fat guy crying over his dead pet monster, being consoled by a monster alien friend. SuperMechagodzilla posted:Remember when the muppeteers built a tiny muppet rear end for Yoda to wiggle at the camera while he rifles through Luke's stuff and pretends to be retarded. There are storyboards somewhere in a vault labeled "Yoda steals snacks".
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Dec 1, 2016 17:20
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RBA Starblade posted:On the other hand, it's a lot more fun to cast Force Lightning than Force Rhetoric. And it's even more fun to cast Force Lightning (tm) at your absentee father who murdered your kindly old mentor than it is to use "the supernatural power to demoralize an enemy army" at some guys off screen who you've never met to win a war that doesn't matter.
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Dec 1, 2016 17:23
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Red posted:I have never disagreed more with any post on these Awful forums. Yeah, after years of restraint Palpatine is finally coming out of the closet. He isn't just evil, he's flamboyantly evil.
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Dec 1, 2016 19:55
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Red posted:There are storyboards somewhere in a vault labeled "Yoda steals snacks".
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Dec 1, 2016 21:36
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More RO footage: https://youtu.be/J48gd0GZGWk Wait a minute.
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Dec 1, 2016 22:23
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It's funny because there is actual new RO footage from a Jimmy Fallon cast appearance out there. The Giacchino score... sounds like a Giacchino score, but given that most of his music sounds like Star Wars anyway, that's a smaller issue than it might usually be. The bigger one in regards to Rogue One is matching said music with the visuals, which may prove a daunting task given the downcast, war-film tones they're talking about. K-2SO humor is on POINT, though. Cross-Section fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Dec 2, 2016 |
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Dec 1, 2016 23:57
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Jewmanji posted:This whole page has been a discussion of a special subset of a special subset of people who have the ability to achieve life after death. The act of achieving life after death in Star Wars is questionable.
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Dec 2, 2016 01:31
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Cross-Section posted:The Giacchino score... sounds like a Giacchino score, but given that most of his music sounds like Star Wars anyway, that's a smaller issue than it might usually be. The bigger one in regards to Rogue One is matching said music with the visuals, which may prove a daunting task given the downcast, war-film tones they're talking about. I felt old reading this because in my mind for a split second I was like "what the hell isn't downcast war-film tone soundtracks his area of expertise?" Than I realized he hasn't scored a Medal of Honor game in like twelve years. But he's definitely capable. Medal of Honor 1 is a bombastic homage to John Williams' most bombastic stuff but his Medal of Honor Underground soundtrack is literally like war-film tone Star Wars. Like if only had those tracks to go on I'd say he'd be a perfect fit. They actually reused several of them in a lot of the later games even after Giacchino stopped doing new music for the series. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZUPaI8JQlc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkCb43ixP0I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFwmjouKT9U
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Dec 2, 2016 01:37
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I actually really dig his MoH scores in addition to the stuff he did for Mercenaries, but his incidental stuff at least has all sounded a bit samey to me since Star Trek 09. That said, you can either chalk it up to my untrained ear and/or the fact that he was brought in super last minute for Rogue One.
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Dec 2, 2016 01:46
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I wish Rogue One was titled Star Wars 3.5
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Dec 2, 2016 01:50
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UmOk posted:Um, I thought the Force was just same made up religious junk and Jedi were mutants. No, the Force is a mystical energy field that communicates with living beings through microscopic mediating organisms called midi-chlorians, which are a metaphor for the symbiotic relationships that make life, and thus knowledge of the Force, possible. It's really not that complicated. They're a "middle" point between the mystical and material aspects of the Force, which is partly where they get their name. Surely, if the Force represents the entirety of reality in all its aspects, there must also be a scientific aspect to it, just as there is a scientific aspect to religious experience (neurons firing in odd ways) in the real world. Neither aspect is delegitimized or "ruined' by the other unless you're some kind of religious fundamentalist or New Atheist-style adherent to scientism. Why isn't George Lucas allowed to find spiritual meaning and beauty in the microscopic workings of biology that make life possible in the first place? Why isn't he allowed to say that this might have anything at all to do with a life-force? All he's saying is that God is ultimately to be found in the relationships that connect us to other life-forms and keep us alive, whether it be on a micro- or a macroscopic level, or on a biological or an interpersonal level. Lucas's only sin was in thinking too big and too expansively for a mainstream audience that just wanted to hear Yoda spout more vague fortune-cookie aphorisms and make them feel all fuzzy inside, without having to be challenged to think about anything in a new way. Serf posted:There's no reason that the Force can't be both a real mystical energy field and wrongly interpreted by the Jedi religion. It isn't wrongly interpreted by the Jedi. There's not a single Jedi in the films who ever denies that the Force is a real mystical energy field. Halloween Jack posted:Though I appreciate your insight, Anakin's birth seems to be the only thing that makes this view of the Force as an apophatic God necessary. The rest of the time, the Force is just the power of belief (which some people manifest as psychic powers), and references to the Force having a will can be easily explained by the relatively simple concept of inspiration. The Force is supposed to be a distillation of all the world's religions down to their basic concepts. Judeo-Christianity (not to mention Greco-Roman religion) has always been a part of that, and the Judeo-Christians have a very particular kind of god with a will and an intelligence. Star Wars does not and never has shared a certain segment of the fanbase's antipathy toward Western religion. From the very beginning, the Jedi were equated with medieval crusading knights and presented as an organization directly akin to something like the Knights Templar. George Lucas self-identifies as a "Buddhist Methodist." The Force is a fusion of Western and Eastern religious concepts. You can interpret the will of the Force whatever way you want. That's the point. But the Force does have a will apart from the individual. Personal inspiration cannot account for the ability to see events from the future. Such an ability can only be accounted for by the existence of an external voice with knowledge of future events speaking to you and guiding you. Individuals can't have knowledge of future events, because their experiential capabilities are limited to the past and present. That's why throughout the entire history of mythology and religion, such phenomena have always been accounted for by gods speaking through oracles and prophets. Every religion, even Buddhism, posits a connection to something greater than the individual, an overarching order embodying ultimate knowledge about the universe, which individuals can from time to time briefly become one with and receive guidance from. Cnut the Great fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Dec 2, 2016 |
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Dec 2, 2016 01:57
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