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Savage Dragon was dope
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Dec 1, 2016 14:20
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We got a new Between the Lines video! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndFysO2JunE I feel way too smug recognizing the music during the spiel at the end. It's from the scene in Metropolis with the Fake Maria in Yoshiwara, driving the men crazy.
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Dec 1, 2016 21:38
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The only thing I've been convinced of by watching Hbomb videos is that he's either some kind of video editing savant or that someone has simply chained him to that iMac. Seriously, that you're releasing regular well-edited videos at the same time that you're developing 90 minute ones and it doesn't show. It's amazing.
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Dec 1, 2016 21:41
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MiddleOne posted:The only thing I've been convinced of by watching Hbomb videos is that he's either some kind of video editing savant or that someone has simply chained him to that iMac. He got his hands on one of those skulls and snorts lines of the bonemeal between edits.
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Dec 1, 2016 21:45
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Spark That Bled posted:We got a new Between the Lines video! That final montage was beautifully written, performed and edited, and it might be the best thing he's ever done.
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Dec 1, 2016 21:47
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Spark That Bled posted:We got a new Between the Lines video! It doesn't sound at all like this though? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LtCfbNgjUg
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Dec 2, 2016 00:52
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In which Night Mind finds something he doesn't love more than the sun, moon, and stars: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGW9cjKJ5f0
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Dec 2, 2016 06:32
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Jsor posted:In which Night Mind finds something he doesn't love more than the sun, moon, and stars: See, that made me immediately click the video and it was pretty good! Like I'm not saying everyone should always be negative all the time, and I do like some of the stuff he likes too and he's got good positive videos, but considering Night Mind's number one problem is his generally indiscriminate taste, "he doesn't like it" let's me know right away that's not gonna be an issue with this one because he's pretty good when that's not getting in the way.
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Dec 2, 2016 09:05
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Spark That Bled posted:We got a new Between the Lines video! I know he was never going to use it but I was really hoping that the ending bit was going to segue into this http://i.imgur.com/gNwwyD0.mp4
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Dec 2, 2016 09:15
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MonsieurChoc posted:It doesn't sound at all like this though? Never watched the version with the Giorgio Moroder score, sorry.
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Dec 2, 2016 12:32
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Back with some Doctor Who, this time it's "Transit" by Ben Aaronovitch, one of the most R-rated Doctor Who stories ever. Sex, language, the Doctor gets drunk, "semen taste", Popeye, all sorts of fun!
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Dec 3, 2016 03:23
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Augus posted:hbomberguy posted a new thing as a fan of hbomb's output, I think this one is really bad The main argument and the lengthy clowning on Image bois sound like a video about ludonarrative dissonance in Uncharted series... made in 2016. This poo poo has been parroted back and forth for ten years and people completely lost the thread, not being able to draw a line between British Invasion authors and whatever followed them. Like, Liefeld abominations have nothing to do with Killing Joke! If you want to talk about its bad influence on superhero comics (not comics in general, thank god) and the commodification of "tragedy in campy land", you should look at bad writing, not muscle Wolverine cyborgs: Todd Mcfarlane's woeful attempts at psychology in Spawn, Geoff Johns, Brad Meltzer, the refrigerator business in Green Lantern, basically every "supervillain gone really bad" plot. What the hell do Mark Waid and Art Spiegelman(!) have with ~ruining comics~ and being in the same sentence with Moore and Gaiman? no mention of Brian Bolland and John Higgins when discussing art and the interpretation of Moore's scripts is also shameful fatherboxx fucked around with this message at 15:19 on Dec 3, 2016 |
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Dec 3, 2016 15:12
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fatherboxx posted:What the hell do Mark Waid and Art Spiegelman(!) have with ~ruining comics~ and being in the same sentence with Moore and Gaiman? I feel like he made it fairly clear that these people were all in the same category of "people what made serious drama comics that got popular," which then led to the boom of the dark age. IDK how well it applies to Waid, but I definitely remember the huge Thing around Maus and "HOLY poo poo, you mean comics... can be something other than silly children's things? You can make them about serious things? That's an option?!" all over.
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Dec 3, 2016 16:57
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WickedHate posted:See, that made me immediately click the video and it was pretty good! Like I'm not saying everyone should always be negative all the time, and I do like some of the stuff he likes too and he's got good positive videos, but considering Night Mind's number one problem is his generally indiscriminate taste, "he doesn't like it" let's me know right away that's not gonna be an issue with this one because he's pretty good when that's not getting in the way. Watching it, I'm kind of puzzled that he finds a thing that he explicitly says is probably a mistake from the devs, and then goes on a long ramble about how it reveals that Sarah is a horrible untrustworthy person anyway. And his habit of overcomplicating things is definitely still manifesting.
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Dec 3, 2016 17:37
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fatherboxx posted:as a fan of hbomb's output, I think this one is really bad I do think there's a clear connection between the 'darker era' of Batman and folks like Liefeld. I think this because, on the Stan Lee Comic Book Greats tapes, he lists them as a core inspiration. He literally got Alan Moore to write some of later Youngblood, just as Macfarlane got Gaiman writing Spawn. In this context it seems clear what Liefeld and co. were going for. I could be wrong. It could be a coincidence that the obvious ripoffs later directly asked the people they were ripping off to write their ripoff for them. But to me, that's a smoking gun. However my larger point doesn't concern a direct correlation, but rather the constant creative problems mainstream big-business comics seem to face. Good ideas get commodified and repackaged poorly. (I cut out a lengthy tangent about the works which, to me, were directly 'inspired' by Maus in a similar fashion, and are significantly more boring to read than any of Liefeld's output. But I felt I'd made the point already - obviously not - and wanted to focus specifically on superhero stuff.) What I'm saying is, while there is a clear direct link because Liefeld literally told us he liked Alan Moore and then hired Alan Moore, even if there wasn't, you can see based purely on the content of the comics coming out at the time that the mainstream market was scrambling to copy the ideas, themes and tone of the really critically-liked comics from that era, but not exactly creating the cornucopia of The Next Watchmens they had probably hoped to create. This environment is the reason why the Killing Joke movie seems to have missed the point of the original work - because the industry almost always does, and in the instance of that very comic, it already did.
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Dec 3, 2016 18:08
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fatherboxx posted:as a fan of hbomb's output, I think this one is really bad Regarding the Image argument, I think Liefeld works as a well-known example of the overall problem of trying to recapture those early books without fully understanding why they were good. Hbomber focuses a lot on the art because, while Moore wasn't the artist, he gave a lot of direction to the artist, giving a touch to it that Liefeld and other creators like him fail to recapture because they didn't really get it. Liefeld ripping off his own character in the video shown is much like his known ripping off of other darker characters, as well as his attempts to make darker and edgier comics that fall flat because he is trying to recapture the magic of characters and books that he doesn't quite get the depth of. The problems with Liefeld's art are reaffirmed in the segment about the actually adaptive parts of the movie, which have many of the same issues. There are plenty of other instances of writing that could have been covered, but the video was mostly looking at how the art and art direction, the latter done by the writer, reinforce the writing, which can sound like a ludonarrative dissonance-type argument, but it probably shouldn't be anywhere near that level of controversial because writing and visuals in a story are supposed to go hand in hand, whereas in a ludonarrative argument it's generally a lot harder to make a modern game line up as a whole because there is that push to keep it fun, usually in ways that we are familiar with. E: Took to long juggling this response with work Trojan Kaiju fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Dec 3, 2016 |
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Dec 3, 2016 18:33
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Yea Liefeld may not have had much directly to do with most of the comics of the era, but he and Image in general are the perfect icon of the major issues going on at the time where it seemed everyone was looking at the 'serious comic books' and going 'oh, so to make comics more serious and artistic I just need to add darkness and grit everywhere? I can do that!' Stuff like showing him designing a character by starting with 'big buff robot man with cool guns and a scary name' felt fitting because it was kinda a perfect encapsulation of how so many people absolutely hosed up adding 'darkness' to comics. Guys like Moore clearly started with an idea and made it fit the character he felt it applied to, and guys like Liefeld start with a character and shove it into ideas that already exist. Killing Joke's redo has a similar issue where it seemed to me like it started with scene ideas and then wedged it into the story regardless of tone and all. Like someone sat around and said 'hey it'd be cool if we explored Batgirl losing her poo poo and the blurring of lines in her relationship with Bruce' and no one said 'well that's not what this story is about and also that's a weird thing to do with her because that has nothing to do with her character and also kinda weirdly turns the story into just making GBS threads on Barbara when her attack was more a component of a bigger thing.' Also related I looked up if any of the people involved commented on the sex scene and all and got this hilarious exchange. quote:But afterward, things got heated when one fan asked, "You have talked about how you wanted to give Barbara more story … and yet the story you gave her ended up being about the men in her life. Why?" http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/batman-killing-joke-batgirl-sex-913904 Azzarello is such a cool guy 
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Dec 3, 2016 18:46
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Puppy Time posted:Watching it, I'm kind of puzzled that he finds a thing that he explicitly says is probably a mistake from the devs, and then goes on a long ramble about how it reveals that Sarah is a horrible untrustworthy person anyway. On top of that, I booted up the game today and that conversation is fixed now, though possibly as a result of that video.
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Dec 3, 2016 18:51
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I've always seen the dynamic of the Batfamily as one where Bruce is a father/mentor figure, so I find the Bruce/Barbara thing insanely creepy and exploitive and Bruce Timm really needs to drop his fixation on it.
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Dec 3, 2016 20:56
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Augus posted:I've always seen the dynamic of the Batfamily as one where Bruce is a father/mentor figure, so I find the Bruce/Barbara thing insanely creepy and exploitive and Bruce Timm really needs to drop his fixation on it. Killing Joke is also one of the times where Batman and Gordon are actual good friends and stuff as well, so it's got another layer of weird creep on it being thrown into the story too. It's just a legitimately nothing-but-negative addition to the whole thing.
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Dec 3, 2016 21:08
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I think bringing Mark Hamill back to voice the Joker was a mistake. I know, he's done a great job in the past, but there is a reason he originally retired. He destroyed his voice after spending over ten years laughing like a maniac, and his performance in Killing Joke is really weak. He just doesn't have the range left in him anymore.
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Dec 3, 2016 21:14
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Wait, that was Mark Hamill? Wow I really couldn't tell from the clip used in the video. I just assumed they were making all their Joker VA's mimic Hamil as much as they could.
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Dec 3, 2016 21:19
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John DiMaggio did a really good and unique job with the Joker in Under the Red Hood and I would not have minded seeing him become the new mainstay. Alternatively they could just have Troy Baker keep doing his Hamill impression.
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Dec 3, 2016 21:22
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Arcsquad12 posted:I think bringing Mark Hamill back to voice the Joker was a mistake. I know, he's done a great job in the past, but there is a reason he originally retired. He destroyed his voice after spending over ten years laughing like a maniac, and his performance in Killing Joke is really weak. He just doesn't have the range left in him anymore. Augus posted:I've always seen the dynamic of the Batfamily as one where Bruce is a father/mentor figure, so I find the Bruce/Barbara thing insanely creepy and exploitive and Bruce Timm really needs to drop his fixation on it.
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Dec 3, 2016 21:43
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achillesforever6 posted:To be fair, doing the Killing Joke was the one thing Hamill wanted to do as the Joker and then retire from the role. yea as much as I agree that the dude deserves a break and we have other just fine Joker options to pick from still, they didn't exactly drag him out of retirement for this. Dude loves Killing Joke and wanted to be the joker in it, can't blame him for taking the chance he got.
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Dec 3, 2016 22:17
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Tatum Girlparts posted:http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/batman-killing-joke-batgirl-sex-913904 Brian Azzarello sucks and so does his run on Wonder Woman, where he tried to make the Amazons more ~*mythologically accurate*~
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Dec 3, 2016 22:32
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Hbomberguy posted:However my larger point doesn't concern a direct correlation, but rather the constant creative problems mainstream big-business comics seem to face. Good ideas get commodified and repackaged poorly. (I cut out a lengthy tangent about the works which, to me, were directly 'inspired' by Maus in a similar fashion, and are significantly more boring to read than any of Liefeld's output. But I felt I'd made the point already - obviously not - and wanted to focus specifically on superhero stuff.) I get your point, but I still think that you're wrong, because in the 90s, the money was not in Alan Moore's experiments and brave ideas, but rather in X-men being cool, colourful and sexy. Which is why most Image founders projects were X-men with more knives, guns, gunknives and skintight suits. Before Liefeld gave Moore a chance to do whatever the hell he wanted with Supreme, he just commisioned scripts for his own angry cyborgs! If anything, for Liefeld, Moore was just a famous name who could have helped his comic get a bit more cred in Wizard. I think the commodification that is evident in Killing Joke movie is not a comic industry problem, but rather a result of the modern approach to comics as an IP farm by the big owners of the Big Two. In comics, creators cannibalize their betters and predecessors out of honest adoration. But in big media, it is way more mercenary - the goal is watering the originals enough so they could be molded into movies, cartoons and toasters. It is less about borrowing the power found in an image or concept (Wolverine turned into bladier Wolverine because Liefeld luvz sniktbub) and more riding on the name recognition - which then turns into exploiting anything that survived in critical memory past the release date. quote:Hbomber focuses a lot on the art because, while Moore wasn't the artist, he gave a lot of direction to the artist, giving a touch to it that Liefeld and other creators like him fail to recapture because they didn't really get it. Liefeld ripping off his own character in the video shown is much like his known ripping off of other darker characters, as well as his attempts to make darker and edgier comics that fall flat because he is trying to recapture the magic of characters and books that he doesn't quite get the depth of. Rob Liefeld has poor imagination, which is why he is incapable of... following overly elaborate directions of a scipt? Superdetailed scripts did not help much with art in early Supreme and Moore's Youngblood issues, despite artists following his directions on camera angles and character placement.
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Dec 4, 2016 00:02
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Tatum Girlparts posted:yea as much as I agree that the dude deserves a break and we have other just fine Joker options to pick from still, they didn't exactly drag him out of retirement for this. Dude loves Killing Joke and wanted to be the joker in it, can't blame him for taking the chance he got. I suppose not. It's just a shame that it's a wet fart to go out on. His definitive Joker is still from Return of the Joker, after he'd spent years honing his impersonation to be both hilarious and terrifying. I actually don't like him that much in the Arkham games, but again, that's because his voice was starting to crumble.
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Dec 4, 2016 00:16
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fatherboxx posted:Rob Liefeld has poor imagination, which is why he is incapable of... following overly elaborate directions of a scipt? Now I want to see a comparison between the scripts Liefeld was given by Moore and the final product.
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Dec 4, 2016 00:22
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Alaois posted:Brian Azzarello sucks and so does his run on Wonder Woman, where he tried to make the Amazons more ~*mythologically accurate*~ “Frankly, Wonder Woman is psychological propaganda for the new type of woman who should, I believe, rule the world" - William Moulton Marston, Creator of Wonder Woman "Wanna say that again? Pussy?" - Brian Azzarello, destroyer of Wonder Woman and The Killing Joke
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Dec 4, 2016 01:04
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Hbomberguy posted:“Frankly, Wonder Woman is psychological propaganda for the new type of woman who should, I believe, rule the world" - William Moulton Marston, Creator of Wonder Woman Someone remarks about creepy bad changes to a lady character in a story, he comes back with a gendered insult, what a guy. 
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Dec 4, 2016 01:27
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I wanna kickstart a plan to revive Marston and have him actively hunt down the many people who have hosed up Wonder Woman. That dude was an interesting guy and actually was (mostly) able to dance the line between 'I'm drawing a sexy lady doing things' and 'but actually the point is that she owns her sexuality and isn't shamed by men around her'. Like, dude was far from perfect, but he actually was able to blend Varga Girls and equal rights images of the times to be one of the guys who could actually say poo poo like 'no Wonder Woman spending near every issue breaking out of bondage poses has an actual meaning' and not be 100% full of poo poo. What I'm saying is donate to my project to have Marston's ghost beat the poo poo out of Azzarello on PPV
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Dec 4, 2016 01:37
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fatherboxx posted:I get your point, but I still think that you're wrong, because in the 90s, the money was not in Alan Moore's experiments and brave ideas, but rather in X-men being cool, colourful and sexy. Which is why most Image founders projects were X-men with more knives, guns, gunknives and skintight suits. I don't think it has to be either/or here. An important element of the late 80-early 90s application of the success of projects like Watchmen or DKR was an attempt to bring elements that contributed to those series' critical and commercial success into the standard universes, trying to combine the psychological versimilitude of Moore and the stylistic experimentation of Miller with the cool colorful action of the X-Men. That's how you get artist-focused projects like Todd MacFarlane's Spider-Man, where an artist with a distinctive style is allowed to experiment with atmosphere and mood in one of the company's largest properties, and the way he does this is to go "darker and grittier", using the surface elements of stuff like DRK and Watchmen, the brooding characters, pessimistic atmosphere, and more explicit violence. you don't get this:  without this: 
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Dec 4, 2016 04:00
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fatherboxx posted:I think the commodification that is evident in Killing Joke movie is not a comic industry problem, but rather a result of the modern approach to comics as an IP farm by the big owners of the Big Two. Do you really feel that the industry has not been treating comics as one big marketing gimmick for years?
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Dec 4, 2016 07:26
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Happily Greg Rucka is hard at work undoing Azzerallo's run on Wonder Woman.
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Dec 4, 2016 17:15
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Todd has put up another OHW, this time it's on Beds are Burning by Midnight Oil. I really have to respect how much research Todd did on some poo poo that the vast majority of Americans are not aware of.
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Dec 4, 2016 23:43
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Testekill posted:Todd has put up another OHW, this time it's on Beds are Burning by Midnight Oil. I really have to respect how much research Todd did on some poo poo that the vast majority of Americans are not aware of. It's one of the most interesting episodes he's done and I think I'm gonna check these guys out as a result of this episode.
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Dec 4, 2016 23:49
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Midnight Oil are great and have a few really good songs aside from that one.
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Dec 4, 2016 23:57
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Cubey posted:It's one of the most interesting episodes he's done and I think I'm gonna check these guys out as a result of this episode. You should, Midnight Oil have an incredible legacy in Australian rock. So many other Australian bands never made it in America so there's a ton of classics that people haven't heard of. One suggestion that I have is "From Little Things Big Things Grow" by Kev Carmody and Paul Kellys which is a super powerfully written song. I'd also suggest checking out some of the Rockwiz duets on YouTube, I've found a few lesser known Australian artists from them that I really enjoyed. Testekill fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Dec 5, 2016 |
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Dec 5, 2016 00:07
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Testekill posted:You should, Midnight Oil have an incredible legacy in Australian rock. So many other Australian bands never made it in America so there's a ton of classics that people haven't heard of. One suggestion that I have is "From Little Things Big Things Grow" by Kev Carmody and Paul Kellys which is a super powerfully written song. Was the midnight oil dude actually good at politics
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Dec 5, 2016 00:36
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