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mng posted:
Can I just say that I absolutely and totally love the fact this show puts effort into streams of code like this to make it absolutely believable as a programming language and not just someone typing a page of gibberish? You can actually read it over and tell what it's doing (while the parts that are obviously impossible to show are simply called-to modules), such a nice detail.
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Dec 5, 2016 20:55
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Would they have to smuggle the data out to be used on hosts that are practically just a couple of corridors away from the ones they're trying to copy? It might not be online yet (no clue, really) but I doubt another competing park is Delos' endgame here. Total speculation here, but if I were Delos I'd want to have really dumbed down hosts in the park proper, but really lifelike ones in real life replacing elected officials, military leaders, etc.
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Dec 5, 2016 20:54
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Harrow posted:If that turns out to be foreshadowing that the Ford who died was a host, I'm going to be really impressed. I know the show doesn't directly deal with the movie, but wasn't the issue that they were unable to make realistic hands at first particularly the thumbs, and that was the reason you could identify a host when shaking hands and not the way they shook hands?
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Dec 5, 2016 20:58
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Intel&Sebastian posted:So, here's my WW trip report and something I hope someone else here will take to heart: Hell no. I love spoilers and I know I'm not alone even though we're constantly drowned out by other viewers whining about needing to be surprised to appreciate a show. I didn't like the story concept of the two timeframes, but I appreciated the effort that went into that scripting and watching it while knowing the end result made it actually fascinating for me. I don't like to rewatch so saying, 'Humbug watch it again if you want to see how it works!' isn't my bag. I'm more into the technical production of a series; editing, music, cinematography; than characters and story most of the time. I can and do appreciate characters and story, but it isn't the thing that makes or breaks a movie or TV show for me to be honest.
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Dec 5, 2016 20:59
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fan and I really loved coming here and diving into theorizing and plot stuff, but now I'm really wondering whether I would have enjoyed it that much more if I had NOT done that and let a few twists and turns hit me in the way they were intended rather than "Whoa that one poster guy and me were right!".
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There are a lot of things she Maeve could have done to assure her escape, but didn't. She could have put all the decommissioned hosts online, amped their stats and had them escort her out. We see from Delores and Armistice that the hosts don't necessarily feel pain or injuries unless they are programmed to. An army of hundreds of hosts could have easily gotten her out, but Ford had other plans for those hosts and so Maeve conveniently left them behind. Seems like the more I think about it, Ford probably was controlling her the entire time as part of his plot to kill the board and start the robot uprising.
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Dec 5, 2016 21:00
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1st AD posted:Total speculation here, but if I were Delos I'd want to have really dumbed down hosts in the park proper, but really lifelike ones in real life replacing elected officials, military leaders, etc. It'd be hilarious if they're used for off-world mining and after the Westworld incident, are given 4-year lifespans to insure protection should they ever escape the park And then we find out Westworld is a total prequel to Blade Runner
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Dec 5, 2016 21:00
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Humbug Scoolbus posted:Hell no. I love spoilers and I know I'm not alone even though we're constantly drowned out by other viewers whining about needing to be surprised to appreciate a show. I didn't like the story concept of the two timeframes, but I appreciated the effort that went into that scripting and watching it while knowing the end result made it actually fascinating for me. I don't like to rewatch so saying, 'Humbug watch it again if you want to see how it works!' isn't my bag. I'm more into the technical production of a series; editing, music, cinematography; than characters and story most of the time. I can and do appreciate characters and story, but it isn't the thing that makes or breaks a movie or TV show for me to be honest. I was converted to the twist early and in this case, enjoyed watching how it added up. It was all execution.
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Dec 5, 2016 21:02
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Blazing Ownager posted:Can I just say that I absolutely and totally love the fact this show puts effort into streams of code like this to make it absolutely believable as a programming language and not just someone typing a page of gibberish? Yeah I always have to pause whenever we are shown an up close shot of a tablet. Also when Maeve is shown by Felix and Sylvester how she's actually just following her script in real time. Impressive details when they really have no reason to show it to us.
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Dec 5, 2016 21:06
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Humbug Scoolbus posted:Hell no. I love spoilers and I know I'm not alone even though we're constantly drowned out by other viewers whining about needing to be surprised to appreciate a show. I didn't like the story concept of the two timeframes, but I appreciated the effort that went into that scripting and watching it while knowing the end result made it actually fascinating for me. I don't like to rewatch so saying, 'Humbug watch it again if you want to see how it works!' isn't my bag. I'm more into the technical production of a series; editing, music, cinematography; than characters and story most of the time. I can and do appreciate characters and story, but it isn't the thing that makes or breaks a movie or TV show for me to be honest. We're in agreement here. The true enemy are people who whine about wanting to be surprised while still thinking they have some sort of right to post on every page of these things. It's the exact same dorks who want to post endless theories about Game of Thrones and then cry about everyone else's because they might have book cooties. It's your own responsibility to stay off the internet, not everyone elses to make sure your internet experience is exactly as you like. I'd just like to re-assure those kind of people that self control does reward you with a better viewing experience when you're like that. Log off, motherfuckers. Intel&Sebastian fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Dec 5, 2016 |
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Dec 5, 2016 21:08
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Blazing Ownager posted:Can I just say that I absolutely and totally love the fact this show puts effort into streams of code like this to make it absolutely believable as a programming language and not just someone typing a page of gibberish? I'm surprised that they are still using React (Javascript in general, really) in the distant future.
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Dec 5, 2016 21:15
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Show good. Paulocast was right. I wished he wouldn't be because I didn't see any halfway decent way for the show to pull that poo poo off yet here we are.
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Dec 5, 2016 21:18
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Most of the ladybots use flash
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Dec 5, 2016 21:23
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1) When did Maeve ask Felix where her daughter is? I want to re-examine those bits because the main outstanding question I have is whether or not her leaving the train was scripted. If we accept at face value that Felix is human, that means he's a part of Ford's narrative that isn't entirely under control and I don't think Ford operates like that. Still, he's too convenient to just be some dumb schmoe. Side note: Any chance Felix was the host he was making in his basement? Would explain things but even with the screwy timeline that might be too far. It's also possible that Maeve wasn't Ford's doing at all. We assume it was because the timing is coincidental, but someone else could have been using Arnold's login. He just wanted to kill the board, after all. Why murder all the techs and security people down below? 2) Did Ford shake hands with anyone else over the entire series, and what did it look like?
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Dec 5, 2016 21:23
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OldTennisCourt posted:This whole project was just a way to get us a new season of Carnivale Don't play with my heart like that
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Dec 5, 2016 21:24
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I can buy that it's possible that after Maeve puts so many points into INT she can use that her CHR skill together even in a subconscious way to manipulate humans like Felix into completing whatever Ford narrative she's part of. She's probably like a chess computer working an insane amount of variables down to the most workable one and she's got Felix flagged as her best mark/path to it. Turning their own INT up all the way seems very Deus Ex Machina. I could see Ford needing a semi-conscious to do that to contain/work the management side of his scheme. Maybe doing that enables them to really work over humans in crazy efficient ways, but that explanation really begs the question of who could possibly stop them if they're THAT smart and powerful and observant etc. Edit: I think Teddy is going to be a dark horse for human sympathetic next season(s). He looked pretty horrified about his first and second encounters with Wyatt and I don't see him signing on fully with the plan no matter how down he is with Dolores. He might even be a safety switch in case Wyatt's plan goes somewhere Ford really doesn't want like Conscious hosts just picking up where humans left off and subjugating other hosts in a non-Maeve manner. Intel&Sebastian fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Dec 5, 2016 |
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Dec 5, 2016 21:30
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Intel&Sebastian posted:I can buy that it's possible that after Maeve puts so many points into INT she can use that her CHR skill together even in a subconscious way to manipulate humans like Felix into completing whatever Ford narrative she's part of. She's probably like a chess computer working an insane amount of variables down to the most workable one and she's got Felix flagged as her best mark/path to it. If Felix wasn't a plant in the end, I'll eat my hat.
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Dec 5, 2016 21:34
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JollyPubJerk posted:it was just a whole adam/eve imagery, with shooting ford being the apple. he gave the hosts exactly what they needed- one with a conscious that can then teach all the others - which is why the screen panned to all of them like it did Perhaps the "Judas steer" that Delores mentions in Ep 1?
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Dec 5, 2016 21:35
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Intel&Sebastian posted:Turning their own INT up all the way seems very Deus Ex Machina. I could see Ford needing a semi-conscious to do that to contain/work the management side of his scheme. Maybe doing that enables them to really work over humans in crazy efficient ways, but that explanation really begs the question of who could possibly stop them if they're THAT smart and powerful and observant etc. It works if the top of the scale isn't mega-genius but just not being dumbed down. In the context of hosts-as-park-props, it makes sense that some are more intelligent (broader vocabulary, demonstrate more initiative, think on their feet, etc. but please let's not get bogged down in a discussion of Intelligence As A Thing) than others. You don't necessarily want every host to be able to solve problems better than a guest, but some should appear smarter and provide better answers than others.
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Dec 5, 2016 21:36
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Blazing Ownager posted:If Felix wasn't a plant in the end, I'll eat my hat. But my feeling is why not reveal that now and why include that great little moment where he looks at himself like OH poo poo? I think the writers are probably self aware enough that they don't want the show to become a Battlestar Galactica style WHO IS A CYLON guessing game, which is way less fun than what they've done already. kaynorr posted:It works if the top of the scale isn't mega-genius but just not being dumbed down. In the context of hosts-as-park-props, it makes sense that some are more intelligent (broader vocabulary, demonstrate more initiative, think on their feet, etc. but please let's not get bogged down in a discussion of Intelligence As A Thing) than others. You don't necessarily want every host to be able to solve problems better than a guest, but some should appear smarter and provide better answers than others. But don't they mention that no one lets them go past whatever level Maeve is already at or close to? She's near the max allowed because she's a manager but there's like double the amount available for some reason. Intel&Sebastian fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Dec 5, 2016 |
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Dec 5, 2016 21:38
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Intel&Sebastian posted:But my feeling is why not reveal that now and why include that great little moment where he looks at himself like OH poo poo? I think the writers are probably self aware enough that they don't want the show to become a Battlestar Galactica style WHO IS A CYLON guessing game, which is way less fun than what they've done already. I don't think he's a host, but I think he's been working for SOME group, possibly one we've never met possibly one we have, the whole time.
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Dec 5, 2016 21:39
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The more I think of it the more deliberate it feels that Ford being responsible for Maeve is never made explicit. They confirmed all sorts of other stuff. Why not that?
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Dec 5, 2016 21:41
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Blazing Ownager posted:I don't think he's a host, but I think he's been working for SOME group, possibly one we've never met possibly one we have, the whole time. Well in that case they'd have to explain the sympathetic scenes we get of him alone and being berated by Sylvester without the trademark TV "I'll get you someday" sneer
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Dec 5, 2016 21:42
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NmareBfly posted:The more I think of it the more deliberate it feels that Ford being responsible for Maeve is never made explicit. They confirmed all sorts of other stuff. Why not that? I think it's pretty explicit in that she just happens to distract management in a big way at the same time he gives Dolores a chance to start the revolution. Edit: What's the explanation for the cold-storage army in the context of Dolores/Wyatt being given her own choice of whether or not to start poo poo up? Like if she decided against it were they all gonna sneak back underground at Ford's direction? Like they seem to be the writ-large "gun" that she has because they're there in case she decides "yes", but what the heck was gonna happen if she decided no? Intel&Sebastian fucked around with this message at 21:47 on Dec 5, 2016 |
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Dec 5, 2016 21:43
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http://i.imgur.com/GnBPSGQ.mp4
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Dec 5, 2016 21:47
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Props to this show for showing me how The Creation of Adam has the shape of the human brain surrounding the image of God. I feel like a total idiot for never noticing this before and a little disappointed for never having this revealed to me in Art History class. Thank you Westworld.
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Dec 5, 2016 21:46
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Invicta{HOG}, M.D. posted:We take Dolores at face value when she says she killed Arnold. And that's probably because most people think that she is the one who shot up the town 35 years ago. We see her sitting with Arnold in the basement beneath the church. I think she did kill him for real because the plot kinda depends on it, but this DID remind me very much of a certain Buddhist koan (and we've talked before about how the cycles of suffering and the awakening enlightenment of consciousness for the hosts relates to Buddhism) "If on your travels you meet Buddha on the road, kill him." (which is not meant to be literal murder but instead something more like what you wrote above. Its about finding truth for yourself and not falling prey to worshiping or following others' beliefs) AndyElusive posted:Props to this show for showing me how The Creation of Adam has the shape of the human brain surrounding the image of God. Michelangelo was a clever motherfucker and played one over on the ole church.
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Dec 5, 2016 21:50
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I love Clementine.
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Dec 5, 2016 21:52
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AndyElusive posted:Props to this show for showing me how The Creation of Adam has the shape of the human brain surrounding the image of God. IIRC there's quite a bit of historical drama behind why he would need to hide the image of the brain, and that there's actually quite a bit of detail behind that drawing's brain model.
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Dec 5, 2016 21:53
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Intel&Sebastian posted:Edit: What's the explanation for the cold-storage army in the context of Dolores/Wyatt being given her own choice of whether or not to start poo poo up? Like if she decided against it were they all gonna sneak back underground at Ford's direction? Like they seem to be the writ-large "gun" that she has because they're there in case she decides "yes", but what the heck was gonna happen if she decided no? Even if she didn't choose to kill Ford, the hosts weren't about to go back to their loops. Not really sure how else it could have played out, but that's kinda the point? Ford has been playing everybody, literally everybody, for years. He's been playing William for 30 loving years. He conspired all the elements of the first season of the show to build us to this point, because he realized Arnold was right, or mostly right. He's had time to obsessively study both all the hosts and all the guests and employees of the park. He pretty much knew what was going to happen, even if Dolores had the choice. Also this gets into the concept of "agency" versus true "free will". And Ford himself says that Bernard is not lacking anything that Humans have, Ford kinda sees Humans as being pretty much like self-aware Hosts themselves.
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Dec 5, 2016 21:55
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Zaphod42 posted:Michelangelo was a clever motherfucker and played one over on the ole church. Also, he's a party dude. Atoramos posted:IIRC there's quite a bit of historical drama behind why he would need to hide the image of the brain, and that there's actually quite a bit of detail behind that drawing's brain model.  Amazing.
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Dec 5, 2016 21:57
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Yeah I think killing Arnold is one of those moments I don't think they'd want to cheap out on and make just another layer of lies because it's a fairly big deal and a major cog to that all-important first town story. It's also something that Dolores/Wyatt needs to move beyond (like Bernard and his son) in order to find her Bi-cameral mind. She has to come to grips with the fact that she was just a gun that Arnold used to kill himself rather than it being something she did out of her own ideas.
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Dec 5, 2016 21:57
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No wonder the Board was always so hungry for new narratives when the majority of the business is being made on waifus next door.
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Dec 5, 2016 21:59
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After having caught up with the thread, I'd really be interested in knowing what all the reshoots and delays were about. They obviously retailored a lot of the show. I wonder what the original plan was, and what didn't work, and what was changed. Also, has anyone thought about the entire season and written up a timeline of all events as depicted, but in chronological order? Or seen a Reddit post where someone did?
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Dec 5, 2016 22:01
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AndyElusive posted:Also, he's a party dude. https://blogs.scientificamerican.co...he-human-brain/
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Dec 5, 2016 22:05
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I really want to believe that Steven Ogg was cast in a subversive way because of his role as Trevor in GTAV (and Trevors oddity as one of a few GTA protagonists who actually have narrative license to be an NPC killing machine) but I also suspect he just looks hella good as an old-timey face and is just the right character actor level budget for that kind of role. I assume the threads already picked this over like crazy?
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Dec 5, 2016 22:07
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AndyElusive posted:Also, he's a party dude. If there is one thing I want to use a time machine for, it is to go back in time and offer the original painter a pizza. Of course, I'm going to put pineapple on it.
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Dec 5, 2016 22:16
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Intel&Sebastian posted:But don't they mention that no one lets them go past whatever level Maeve is already at or close to? She's near the max allowed because she's a manager but there's like double the amount available for some reason. Given that, I wouldn't be surprised if one of the reasons for the threshold is an increased likelihood of gaining consciousness. Along with giving her the ability to ignore sleep commands, Ford wanted her woke (or close to it) to better execute the plan. It wouldn't do if she opens her eyes down in the service area and all around her is, "Doesn't look like anything to me".
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Dec 5, 2016 22:19
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Doorknob Slobber posted:Oh my god. The robot Ford was making in his super secret basement was himself wasn't it? People keep saying this. gently caress that'd be the worst drat idea, it'd completely undermine the entire point of Ford's storyline, rendering it mawkish and cheap instead of his masterwork. It would be Prison Break season 4 levels of idiocy.
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Dec 5, 2016 22:19
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Blazing Ownager posted:If Felix wasn't a plant in the end, I'll eat my hat. I really want to take the other end of this bet. I want to believe Felix is a good guy in a bad world. The part that concerns me the most about him is how he reacted to the murder of his coworkers.
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Dec 5, 2016 22:21
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regulargonzalez posted:People keep saying this. gently caress that'd be the worst drat idea, it'd completely undermine the entire point of Ford's storyline, rendering it mawkish and cheap instead of his masterwork. It would be Prison Break season 4 levels of idiocy. Forgive him, gonzalez. Ford is or was just a human, you can't trust them to not be mawkish or cheap.
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Dec 5, 2016 22:22
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