|
Peel posted:I didn't like the mod challenge (BM has an obvious conflict of interest ITT and should be v. cautious with his mod powers), but this is the sort of Bellingcat-critical post I'd like to see more of because it has content rather than 'goon lol.' This is about ethics in something awful moderation.
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2016 17:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 20:33 |
|
|
Sinteres posted:So basically our double standards are actually okay Where did I say it was okay? Count Roland posted:Poland and the Baltic states were part of the Soviet/Russian empire. Now they're part of the Western/US empire. The US didn't like the former arrangement, Russia didn't like the latter. That some of these states border Russia adds some extra flavour. I'm not disputing that, I'm saying Russia should try to be honest with themselves about why these countries switched side. Also why Ukraine and Georgia wanted to. You know, like when you have a friend who's been dumped by his 7th girlfriend in a row, you can go along with him bitching at these bitches; or you can tell him "you know, maybe it's not them, but you". Cat Mattress fucked around with this message at 17:28 on Dec 6, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2016 17:24
|
|
|
Lumpy the Cook posted:The invasion of the Ukraine was a pretty atrocious act, all told, but America has no right to criticize any foreign power for illegally invading sovereign nations. Sure it does. One country doing A Bad Thing does not make another country immune to criticism.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2016 17:29
|
|
|
icantfindaname posted:he's a literal russian citizen living in moscow, remember I am actually not Russian or a Russian citizen oddly enough. I do spend a lot of time over here in the archives though. Also, it is rather annoying to access SA in Russia. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Dec 6, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2016 17:30
|
|
|
Sun Wu Kampf posted:Sure it does. One country doing A Bad Thing does not make another country immune to criticism. It makes the country that did the bad thing hard to take seriously as a good faith actor when it criticizes others for doing the same thing it does though. Cat Mattress posted:Where did I say it was okay? It just seemed to fit the narrative that when we back bad allies it's because it's the rational strategic thing to do whereas when Russia does so it's because they're amoral monsters. Maybe that isn't what you meant. Dr Kool-AIDS fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Dec 6, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2016 17:29
|
|
|
Odobenidae posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUKhfgZ6NF8 Blowing up hospitals is crap but I can see why a mistake might be made considering you can barely even see those red crosses at any kind of distance. I'm pretty glad that I'm not in charge of directing artillery because I don't know how you're supposed to tell.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2016 17:33
|
|
|
Ardennes posted:Also, it is rather annoying to access SA in Russia. Is it blocked? I suppose with "evil, known CIA operative" Brown Moses as a moderator it probably wouldn't be too in favour in the Kremlin.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2016 17:46
|
|
|
Blut posted:Is it blocked? I suppose with "evil, known CIA operative" Brown Moses as a moderator it probably wouldn't be too in favour in the Kremlin. The forums use Cloudflare for ddos protection, and part of that involves making people in certain countries pass captcha things to continue accessing the site. Russia's one of those countries.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2016 17:50
|
|
|
Sinteres posted:It just seemed to fit the narrative that when we back bad allies it's because it's the rational strategic thing to do whereas when Russia does so it's because they're amoral monsters. Maybe that isn't what you meant. I'm not one to refrain from criticizing western countries when they do bullshit stuff. But yes, Russia too does practice the same double standard. That's the realpolitik part. You won't find any country that isn't guilty of this; at least not any country with pretensions at playing an international role.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2016 18:03
|
|
|
fishmech posted:The forums use Cloudflare for ddos protection, and part of that involves making people in certain countries pass captcha things to continue accessing the site. Russia's one of those countries. Yep. You often have to use a VPN if you're in China because guess who serves reCAPTCHA? edit: uh... Redmark fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Dec 6, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2016 18:11
|
|
|
Redmark posted:Yep. You often have to use a VPN if you're in China because guess who serves reCAPTCHA? Big Hezbollah offensive from the east just took half of the rebels remaining territory.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2016 18:37
|
|
|
The rebels of Aleppo are relying on Zeno's dichotomy paradox now.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2016 18:41
|
|
|
They're hungry, cold, low on supplies and hopeless of relief. Also, as Hearts of Iron painfully taught me, that encirclement penalty is a bitch. It really is a terrible position to be in. What's next on the regime's objective list after Aleppo? Idlib or the pockets scattered near Damascus? Or maybe join the race for Al-Bab?
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2016 19:00
|
|
|
The maps of Aleppo over the last week or so remind me of that The Incredible Shrinking Israel map meme. The rebels there have to know they're royally screwed by now.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2016 19:19
|
|
|
Freezer posted:What's next on the regime's objective list after Aleppo? Idlib or the pockets scattered near Damascus? Or maybe join the race for Al-Bab? I don't know that they'll be successful, but my bet's on a big diplomatic push by Russia to capitalize on the victory by declaring the war over and any remaining pockets of resistance as being terrorist holdouts, with the intent of forcing neighboring countries to stop supplying the rebels, most of which probably are aligned with terrorist groups at this point anyway. I don't think we'll see Trump bombing Idlib any time soon, but if he and Putin both want an end to the war, it seems like they could jointly pressure Turkey to stop handing out weapons to Al Qaeda.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2016 19:23
|
|
|
Redmark posted:edit: uh...
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2016 19:39
|
|
|
Sinteres posted:I don't know that they'll be successful, but my bet's on a big diplomatic push by Russia to capitalize on the victory by declaring the war over and any remaining pockets of resistance as being terrorist holdouts, with the intent of forcing neighboring countries to stop supplying the rebels, most of which probably are aligned with terrorist groups at this point anyway. I don't think we'll see Trump bombing Idlib any time soon, but if he and Putin both want an end to the war, it seems like they could jointly pressure Turkey to stop handing out weapons to Al Qaeda. I have never seen any evidence Turkey has ever supplied weapons to Al-Nusra.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2016 19:49
|
|
|
Squalid posted:I have never seen any evidence Turkey has ever supplied weapons to Al-Nusra. They aren't just falling off trucks. Even if Turkey isn't directly handing the weapons over, they're allowing their border to be used for that purpose.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2016 20:39
|
|
|
Sinteres posted:They aren't just falling off trucks. Even if Turkey isn't directly handing the weapons over, they're allowing their border to be used for that purpose. Do you think the Turkey is allowing their border to supply the YPG as well? Their gear isn't just falling off trucks either Stop perpetuating rumors and half-truths. Base your positions on what can actually be justified.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2016 20:47
|
|
|
Squalid posted:Do you think the Turkey is allowing their border to supply the YPG as well? Their gear isn't just falling off trucks either It's been pretty widely reported that Turkey's at least tacitly approved the movement of weapons and fighters across their borders. It's also been reported that the US has directly armed the YPG.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2016 20:54
|
|
|
Sinteres posted:It makes the country that did the bad thing hard to take seriously as a good faith actor when it criticizes others for doing the same thing it does though. Just because the heroin addict (USA) is criticizing the krokodil addict (Russia), doesn't mean that the USA doesn't have a point and also doesn't mean that the USA isn't without its flaws!
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2016 21:32
|
|
|
Sinteres posted:It's been pretty widely reported that Turkey's at least tacitly approved the movement of weapons and fighters across their borders. It's also been reported that the US has directly armed the YPG. So we've established Turkey is at least as friendly to the YPG as it is to Al Qaeda. Not a very high bar given the two are in a state of open war, imo. Also it almost sounds like you're implying the US is the sole source of supplies for the YPG which is so dumb there's obviously no way you can believe it, but I'm not sure what point you're trying to make with that fact.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2016 21:35
|
|
|
Squalid posted:So we've established Turkey is at least as friendly to the YPG as it is to Al Qaeda. Not a very high bar given the two are in a state of open war, imo. Also it almost sounds like you're implying the US is the sole source of supplies for the YPG which is so dumb there's obviously no way you can believe it, but I'm not sure what point you're trying to make with that fact. We haven't established that, you've made that idiotic suggestion. Some of the YPG's weapons may have come from the PKK, which Turkey has responded to by devastating its own Kurdish region in a war of choice, but it's not comparable to the flow of weapons and personnel that's taken place in Northern Aleppo (before the invasion) and Idlib. Turkey openly defended Nusra at one point, and allowed ISIS the use of its border, so pretending Turkey hasn't assisted terrorist groups in Syria is a weird hill to die on.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2016 21:52
|
|
|
Turkey closed its border crossings after the SDF seized control of the Syrian side of them. That means that the Sublime Porte refused to close them as long as it was Daesh that was in control. Compared to (passive if not active) support of Daesh, support for Al Qaeda seems like peanuts.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2016 22:03
|
|
|
There are some reports coming out that the rebels in eastern Aleppo have agreed to leave the city
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2016 22:16
|
|
|
FeedingHam2Cats posted:There are some reports coming out that the rebels in eastern Aleppo have agreed to leave the city Under arms through a corridor or more like a surrender?
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2016 22:23
|
|
|
There's really only one source on that quote right now, and it's contingent on the UN-Turkey talks.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2016 22:25
|
|
|
Jack B Nimble posted:Under arms through a corridor or more like a surrender? Probably relocating to Idlib province would be my guess but I dunno. From what I had heard (the twittersphere so take it with a grain of salt) they had essentially run out of ammunition so any resistance would have been a waste of their lives.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2016 22:26
|
|
|
FeedingHam2Cats posted:Probably relocating to Idlib province would be my guess but I dunno. From what I had heard (the twittersphere so take it with a grain of salt) they had essentially run out of ammunition so any resistance would have been a waste of their lives. Why would the regime accept this when it has them against the wall? Why not arrest/kill the bunch of them, as Assad has a reputation of doing?
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2016 22:30
|
|
|
Better the bird in the hand than two in the bush, I suppose. Give their best forces a rest, and avoid more bad PR. Also if not all the rebels (excluding JFS etc.) leave, it might lead to more infighting in the future
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2016 22:33
|
|
|
Freezer posted:Why would the regime accept this when it has them against the wall? Why not arrest/kill the bunch of them, as Assad has a reputation of doing? They've been negotiating releases like this for a while in other pockets, actually. They drop their weapons, the regime lets them go to Idlib province. It frees up more soldiers and equipment and puts all the rebels in one spot allowing the Russians to bomb them with impunity, essentially
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2016 22:34
|
|
|
I say we ban Ghouta Truthers on sight. I'm sick of wasting my time with those fools when literally the (multiple) people sitting here in this thread have proven it was the Syrian government beyond a shadow of a doubt and seen the evidence laid bare. Didn't we used to have a policy of banning 9/11 Truthers or at least kicking them out of D&D?Freezer posted:Why would the regime accept this when it has them against the wall? Why not arrest/kill the bunch of them, as Assad has a reputation of doing? Because they're dug into fortified positions and you'll have to waste tons of munitions and soldiers to dig them out instead of fighting them on more open ground. Sergg fucked around with this message at 22:39 on Dec 6, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2016 22:37
|
|
|
You might also hope that some of the less suicidal rebels slip away into the countryside and give up fighting if they feel that continuing the war is futile.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2016 22:44
|
|
|
Sinteres posted:You might also hope that some of the less suicidal rebels slip away into the countryside and give up fighting if they feel that continuing the war is futile. That probably covers a large proportion of folks who aren't Jaish al-Fateh remaining in the city.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2016 22:46
|
|
|
FeedingHam2Cats posted:Probably relocating to Idlib province would be my guess but I dunno. From what I had heard (the twittersphere so take it with a grain of salt) they had essentially run out of ammunition so any resistance would have been a waste of their lives. FeedingHam2Cats posted:They've been negotiating releases like this for a while in other pockets, actually. They drop their weapons, the regime lets them go to Idlib province. It frees up more soldiers and equipment and puts all the rebels in one spot allowing the Russians to bomb them with impunity, essentially
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2016 22:52
|
|
|
Blut posted:Is it blocked? I suppose with "evil, known CIA operative" Brown Moses as a moderator it probably wouldn't be too in favour in the Kremlin. It seems to depend on the ISP, I have had at least one ISP which SA is completely blocked. Otherwise Cloudflare is very aggressive about captchas, it occurs at least every 5-10 minutes. It isn't a big surprise (beyond the language barrier) there are very few Russians on SA. That said, for the most part it is possible to post.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2016 23:02
|
|
|
Sinteres posted:We haven't established that, you've made that idiotic suggestion. Some of the YPG's weapons may have come from the PKK, which Turkey has responded to by devastating its own Kurdish region in a war of choice, but it's not comparable to the flow of weapons and personnel that's taken place in Northern Aleppo (before the invasion) and Idlib. Turkey openly defended Nusra at one point, and allowed ISIS the use of its border, so pretending Turkey hasn't assisted terrorist groups in Syria is a weird hill to die on. I was trying to be charitable to you by assuming you were actually responding the post you quoted and your "tacitly approved the movement of weapons and fighters across their borders" was in reference to the YPG movements. And its not just "some" weapons, literally thousands of Kurdish militia and who knows what kind of equipment has moved back and forth over the Turkish border, according to several sources. This doesn't mean they are supporters of the YPG. Now, at what SPECIFIC point has Turkey "openly defended Nusra," and what exactly is that supposed to mean, because you have a bad habit of making vague and misleading insinuations. Note that I am not trying to defend Turkey here. There's a lot to criticize. Why aren't you criticizing real things though, like the way they are currently facilitating the distribution of grad rockets, an indiscriminate weapon that has been used by rebels in heavily populated areas where civilian casualties are inevitable? Why do you instead perpetuate misinformation? Squalid fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Dec 6, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2016 23:03
|
|
|
Squalid posted:Now, at what SPECIFIC point has Turkey "openly defended Nusra," and what exactly is that supposed to mean, because you have a bad habit of making vague and misleading insinuations. "Erdogan has taken a softer line toward Jabhat al-Nusra, one of several Islamist groups that Turkish officials supported during the early years of the Syrian civil war before formally breaking with it under Western pressure in 2014. In a speech last month, Erdogan repeated his suggestion that the “terrorist” label was inappropriate for Jabhat al-Nusra’s Islamist rebels, who, after all, also are at war with the Islamic State." Squalid posted:Why aren't you criticizing real things though, like the way they are currently facilitating the distribution of grad rockets, an indiscriminate weapon that has been used by rebels in heavily populated areas where civilian casualties are inevitable? Why do you instead perpetuate misinformation? That would be included in the weapons that are flowing across the Turkish border into Idlib, so yeah that's something I'm not thrilled about.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2016 23:08
|
|
|
Blut posted:Is it blocked? I suppose with "evil, known CIA operative" Brown Moses as a moderator it probably wouldn't be too in favour in the Kremlin. I don't think the Kremlin gives a poo poo about Brown Moses
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2016 23:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 20:33 |
|
|
FeedingHam2Cats posted:I don't think the Kremlin gives a poo poo about Brown Moses Putin defeated Hillary Clinton, and Merkel's in his sights now, but as soon as that's done with he's going after the bloggers.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2016 23:24
|
|