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orcane posted:Using Paris as a "nurse" briefly makes some sense if you're just fresh out of options, but bringing him back in that role after Kes "evolves" is dumb. They totally should have used someone else at this point, but then you'd need a recurring role (because the doctor has become such a fixture by then so he and sickbay showed up every 2nd episode or so) just for that and why do that if you just want to use the same ten or so people for everything, right? Eh, they could've just put the same extra in the background in sickbay all the time. Recurring without any lines, like they did with Ayala.
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Dec 7, 2016 13:32
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Voyager never really had a science officer till 7of9, did it?
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Dec 7, 2016 13:39
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Knormal posted:The Destiny trilogy is probably the best starting point, it pretty much set the stage for the modern Trek novel universe. There's earlier books that deal with Riker moving over to Titan and the Enterprise's new crewmembers, but I don't think there's anything major you won't be able to catch up on. I'll warn you though, the books' quality varies a lot. That character was always the skeptic of the show when it came to Bajorans. Also some of the stuff they did with Sisko was a bit problematic with him leaving his family for a period
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Dec 7, 2016 13:56
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The_Doctor posted:Voyager never really had a science officer till 7of9, did it? Seven isn't the science officer. Yeah she does all the plot required sciency poo poo, but her actual job is just astrometrics. Maybe with Janeway being the captain they figured they didn't need one. TNG doesn't really have a card-carrying science officer either, though in practice Data winds up doing the plot required sciency poo poo.
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Dec 7, 2016 15:35
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The_Doctor posted:Voyager never really had a science officer till 7of9, did it? Samantha Wildman filled the role when they remembered her. Ops was just science renamed because Data looked bad in blue, anyway.
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Dec 7, 2016 15:39
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Man, can you imagine if they'd done Voyager as a legacy ship show? When it finally gets back to Earth, it's someone like an aged Capt. Miral Paris at the helm.
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Dec 7, 2016 15:44
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The_Doctor posted:Man, can you imagine if they'd done Voyager as a legacy ship show? When it finally gets back to Earth, it's someone like an aged Capt. Miral Paris at the helm. Please stop suggesting good versions of Voyager
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Dec 7, 2016 16:27
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There was a moment in an early episode of Voyager that always made me kinda cock my head a bit. It was SUPER early, like only a few eps in, and some Maquis crewmen were telling Chakotay, hey we got your back in case poo poo goes down and you want to make a play. And Chakotay eventually responds by knocking one of the dudes out and saying "You wanna do things like the Maquis, well that's how we did things in the Maquis, is that what you really want?" The Maquis weren't Klingons. They were former Federation citizens that found themselves in a bullshit situation and decided to fight back to keep their worlds. I can't imagine it just became some dipshit Might Makes Right heirarchy, there has to be a TON of shared values between the Maquis and Starfleet. Really weird choice to retcon the Maquis like they were just ignorant savage oafs.  
primaltrash fucked around with this message at 17:13 on Dec 7, 2016 |
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Dec 7, 2016 17:06
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Picard makes green look badass. Still should have been an evolution of the TOS film uniforms though.
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Dec 7, 2016 17:20
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Rhyno posted:Picard makes green look badass. Are you colour-blind?
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Dec 7, 2016 17:28
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Roddenberry loved spandex onesies
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Dec 7, 2016 18:23
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WeAreTheRomans posted:Are you colour-blind? Yeah, I guess he can't see orange
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Dec 7, 2016 18:27
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Data looks kickass in blue. Re: Voyager "Hey captain, I'm just the guy who cleans the ship but I always wanted to work in medicine. Maybe I could help out in sick bay?" " No, your job is too important. We'll just get the driver to do it."
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Dec 7, 2016 18:56
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All of Voyager's available science officers were either solely educated in mycology, or dead.
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Dec 7, 2016 19:28
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armoredgorilla posted:There was a moment in an early episode of Voyager that always made me kinda cock my head a bit. It was SUPER early, like only a few eps in, and some Maquis crewmen were telling Chakotay, hey we got your back in case poo poo goes down and you want to make a play. And Chakotay eventually responds by knocking one of the dudes out and saying "You wanna do things like the Maquis, well that's how we did things in the Maquis, is that what you really want?" I don't think it was necessarily "whoever is strongest is leader", I think it was more that discipline could be a lot harsher and that the lack of regimentation could cut both ways. There were certainly some Starfleet people who defected to the Maquis, but there were also presumably a hell of a lot of people who were never in Starfleet and would probably chafe at working under Starfleet rules. Hell, if there was a Maquis-focused miniseries I would expect one of the running narratives to be tension between Starfleet supporters and defectors who see a lot of the Maquis as sorely lacking in organization and coordination, and non-Starfleeters who really resent these know-it-all 'fleet assholes who keep trying to tell everyone what to do.
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Dec 7, 2016 20:19
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I mean, hell, the Maquis were basically pirates.
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Dec 7, 2016 20:21
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Any Maquis series that doesn't paint them as the most entitled petulant babies fighting for the most idiotic cause in a shamefully ineffective way would be a bad series.
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Dec 7, 2016 20:22
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Hell, if there was a Maquis-focused miniseries I would expect one of the running narratives to be tension between Starfleet supporters and defectors who see a lot of the Maquis as sorely lacking in organization and coordination, and non-Starfleeters who really resent these know-it-all 'fleet assholes who keep trying to tell everyone what to do. You could also do plots like that in a show where a Starfleet crew and a Maquis crew were thrown together on the same ship and had to work together to survive. Oh, wait.
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Dec 7, 2016 20:25
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Baronjutter posted:Any Maquis series that doesn't paint them as the most entitled petulant babies fighting for the most idiotic cause in a shamefully ineffective way would be a bad series. Agreed.
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Dec 7, 2016 20:27
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I did appreciate the fact that the Maquis were quickly wiped out by the Dominion as soon as the Cardassians under Gul Dukat signed the alliance treaty.
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Dec 7, 2016 20:47
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Powered Descent posted:You could also do plots like that in a show where a Starfleet crew and a Maquis crew were thrown together on the same ship and had to work together to survive. Red Squad Red Squad Red Squad!
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Dec 7, 2016 20:59
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FlamingLiberal posted:I'm still not a huge fan of having Kira resign from Starfleet and devoting herself to religion. Kira was always devout with her religious beliefs but having her leave her military career and eventually become Kai is so out of character for her it's ridiculous.
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Dec 7, 2016 21:00
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FlamingLiberal posted:I did appreciate the fact that the Maquis were quickly wiped out by the Dominion as soon as the Cardassians under Gul Dukat signed the alliance treaty. Yeah, I love how it's just this minor footnote for the most part. Their years of pointless resistance resulted in absolutely nothing but their deaths. They could have been living it up on some new paradise planet with all relocation and rebuilding expenses paid and probably a bit extra to make it worth their while. Any of these idiot semi-illegal colonies could have made out like loving bandits. Imagine you're a few thousand people who decided to go build a colony on some planet. You hosed up by not officially asking the federation if it was ok to colonize, probably had to make due with the absolute minimum of equipment, and are eking out a kinda lovely existence but at least you feel independent and and proud that you've built something. Then you find out the world you illegally settled and were warned about is now officially in cardassian territory but they'll relocate you and are open for some negotiation. This is your big chance, you've just won the lottery by being as rear end in a top hat and living where you were told not to. You can tell the federation you'll move but you get to pick the planet, pick the best site, want perfect holographic data on the new location so you can plan the new colony in holodeck VR and have it all built for you to your specifications before you move. You also want a reactor with double the output of your current one, you want a class II industrial replicator rather than the cobbled together salvaged class I you currently have. You want a high degree of autonomy while still having all the benefits of being in the federation. This is your chance to get all the equipment and structures you could ever dream of, plus your legal status hammered out in your favour. It's a bit sad to leave the colony you created, but it's better than living under cardassian rule or starting a war and all the work you've put into the colony is directly translating into a way better colony to your exact specifications based on what you had learned building this one. It's win win, it's having your cake and eating it too.
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Dec 7, 2016 21:12
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:I mean, hell, the Maquis were basically pirates. Pirates also weren't Klingons they had strict rules Captains were mostly elected and had guidelines they had to follow. Many pirates became pirates because they were British sailors who got tired of their superiors beating them and treating them like poo poo.
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Dec 7, 2016 21:15
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FlamingLiberal posted:I'm still not a huge fan of having Kira resign from Starfleet and devoting herself to religion. Religion was a big part of Kira's character. She was more skeptical of people using the religion for personal advantage. FlamingLiberal posted:Also some of the stuff they did with Sisko was a bit problematic with him leaving his family for a period Avery Brooks not wanting the absence to last very long because it doesn't look good for a black father to abandon his wife and kids... meant nothing to the STO folks so he's still MIA 40 years later. Seriously, gently caress that game.
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Dec 7, 2016 22:04
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Met posted:Religion was a big part of Kira's character. She was more skeptical of people using the religion for personal advantage. It's like having a random Catholic character become pope.
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Dec 7, 2016 22:20
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WickedHate posted:It's like having a random Catholic character become pope. It's like the second in command to Jesus becoming the Pope.
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Dec 7, 2016 22:28
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Yeah, Kira was always super religious; she just had a practical side to her that allowed some compromise for survival. After dealing with Bareil and Wynn and maturing a bit more I could totally see her going the Vedek route. Her making Kai is probably straining things though.
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Dec 7, 2016 22:38
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remusclaw posted:It's like the second in command to Jesus becoming the Pope. Granted, but still, the main characters doing everything and getting all the most important positions is an annoying cliche, and with Kira becoming the Kai it's like "oh, of course she did". It's not like Picard became the President of the Federation.
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Dec 7, 2016 22:45
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Baronjutter posted:Any Maquis series that doesn't paint them as the most entitled petulant babies fighting for the most idiotic cause in a shamefully ineffective way would be a bad series. It's hilarious how oppressed the Maquis act given they're basically the equivilent of a millionaire playing farmer for fun compared to Cardassians who still often live in some form of actual poverty let the spoonheads have the planets you loving assholes, they actually need farmland to feed their people because they aren't post scarcity
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Dec 7, 2016 22:50
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Starfleet should've just called in Data to phaser another aqueduct or two. Seemed to work pretty well the first time, and the Cardassians were just as capable of frying all their asses from orbit as the Sheliak.
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Dec 7, 2016 23:02
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Were they actually federation planets? Or did some federadis just settle on a random planet and it turned out it belonged to the Cardassians?
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Dec 7, 2016 23:02
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Cojawfee posted:Were they actually federation planets? Or did some federadis just settle on a random planet and it turned out it belonged to the Cardassians? Goes into the Cardassian war retcon--it was a disputed area and when the dust settled on the peace deal they were on the wrong side of the treaty.
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Dec 7, 2016 23:12
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The Ultimate Shitposter Kirk: Can you tell me what this is all about? I'm given orders to proceed here, no reason given. I'm told that thread regulars will be removed to a space station, to a security holding area. I think I'm entitled to an explanation. Commodore Wesley: You've had a singular honor bestowed upon you. You are to be the fox in the hunt.  Kirk: What's that? Commodore Wesley: Trolling. I'll be commanding the attack force against you. Kirk: An entire attack force against my thread? Commodore Wesley: Have you heard of the M5 multitronic unit? Kirk: That's, uh, Dr. Richard Daystrum's device, isn't it? Tell me about that. Spock: It is the most ambitious computer complex ever created. It's purpose is to correlate all shitposting activity in a thread to provide the ultimate in white noise posts and poo poo-posts. Commodore Wesley: How do you know so much about it, commander? Spock: I hold an A7 computer expert classification, commodore. I am also a mod on Reddit.
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Dec 7, 2016 23:34
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I really don't like the Bajorans or the Maquis very much as concepts in Star Trek because, well, they're really loving lame. Star Trek generally doesn't do gritty well with its limited budget and focus on futurism that it never departs from aesthetically. Add to this that a lot of Bajoran storylines were telling and not showing and they came across as whiny babies rather than an oppressed people who have been left behind by the future. Then at the opposite end of the scale are the Ferengi, who are maybe the worst thing in all of Star Trek. In case you haven't gathered yet, I don't find DS9 very appealing, because of these things and more needling problems I have with some of the plot beats. My general stance is that it didn't do as well as TNG because it isn't as good as TNG. Sometimes it gets there by being too TNG, and sometimes it gets there by wading too deep into "actually the future will be as bad or worse than today," forgetting the whole loving premise of Star Trek. And sometimes it gets there by having Quark and his family on screen.
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Dec 7, 2016 23:42
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Cojawfee posted:Were they actually federation planets? Or did some federadis just settle on a random planet and it turned out it belonged to the Cardassians? From what I could gather from what they briefly mention about the situation through 3 series is that the whole area was a semi-disputed frontier area and a bunch of humans decided "hey, this area isn't technically claimed by anyone, we're going to throw up disorganized colonies without the official blessing of the federation!" and the federation was all "Well technically no one has official broadly recognised claims to that area of space, but it's right next to Cardassian territory and they are also colonizing it so we strongly recommend not settling there because if we do ever establish official borders there might be issues" but they said "NO gently caress YOU DAD" and settled anyways. Then when the federation had a war with cardassia part of the peace process was dealing with this nebulous border situation, which I'm assuming looked like old maps of the holy roman empire. Idiots who settled deep inside the cardassian side of the frontier surrounded by mostly cardassian claimed systems suddenly found them selves shocked that the new borders didn't carve out a thousand tiny special snowflake enclaves just for them.
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Dec 7, 2016 23:46
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Baronjutter posted:From what I could gather from what they briefly mention about the situation through 3 series is that the whole area was a semi-disputed frontier area and a bunch of humans decided "hey, this area isn't technically claimed by anyone, we're going to throw up disorganized colonies without the official blessing of the federation!" and the federation was all "Well technically no one has official broadly recognised claims to that area of space, but it's right next to Cardassian territory and they are also colonizing it so we strongly recommend not settling there because if we do ever establish official borders there might be issues" but they said "NO gently caress YOU DAD" and settled anyways. Then when the federation had a war with cardassia part of the peace process was dealing with this nebulous border situation, which I'm assuming looked like old maps of the holy roman empire. Idiots who settled deep inside the cardassian side of the frontier surrounded by mostly cardassian claimed systems suddenly found them selves shocked that the new borders didn't carve out a thousand tiny special snowflake enclaves just for them. It's also important to note that the episode of Next Gen that dealt with this made the primary inhabitants of said area stereotypical Native Americans and proceeded to lay on the guilt real thick about relocating them.
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Dec 7, 2016 23:53
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Like a lot of things in trek, what the writers were aiming with in a particular episode often ends up not making sense or working when the issue is expanded on later on. When it wasn't very fleshed out it was more "We're giving away land for peace, sorry innocent amerindians looks like we're forcing you on a trail of tears again!" and then it slowly morphed into "We literally told you this could happen and told you not to settle there and it was incredibly obvious if formal borders were ever established which side of the fence certain parts of space would be on so this is all on you idiots" It also only works when you still think of land and colonies in a more modern day setting where land is very limited and resources scarce. I guess they had to pull out "ancient spiritualism" as an excuse for the only possible reason people would be extremely fussy about relocating. Maybe don't settle next to the disputed frontier of literal space nazi's next time. If only the federation had some m-class planets in safe areas people could settle. It's too bad the federation is a tiny impoverished space country. Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Dec 8, 2016 |
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Dec 8, 2016 00:04
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I really have to wonder about people who come away from DS9 thinking that it went too grimdark or got too far away from the idealism of Star Trek. Did they watch the same show that I did? Were they actually watching Babylon 5?
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Dec 8, 2016 00:10
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dont even fink about it posted:I really don't like the Bajorans or the Maquis very much as concepts in Star Trek because, well, they're really loving lame. Star Trek generally doesn't do gritty well with its limited budget Woah woah woah. Star Trek from TNG onwards had some of the highest budgets on TV
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