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seravid posted:I'm building a mining outpost when suddenly, a tornado/firestorm/Godzilla lays waste to my oil processing plant. Now, the situation is either handled automatically or it needs my direct intervention. If it's automated, then I have researched and constructed whatever safeguards/defenses needed and can keep building the outpost in peace. Disasters are never seen, they're just another red triangle in the bottom of the screen. That sounds about right to me, y'know? The whole point of the game is to tech and design solutions to automatically resolve problems and generate goods.
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Dec 7, 2016 19:32
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I was thinking that maybe you could have those as planet- or terrain-wide weather events as a sort of challenge mode. ("You landed on an ice planet! Severe ice storms can damage power poles," etc.) That doesn't seem like it adds anything challenging though. It's either more busy work in the early game (until you have robots to fix the poles for you) or the same as a self-imposed challenge ("Sand storms make solar power inefficient!" is the same as "I'm not going to use solar this time."). e: And some of the challenges could make the game unplayable without research to overcome the problem. For example, ice storms could damage robots, until you research wool sweaters for them.
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Dec 7, 2016 19:32
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Some disasters could be fun, as it would encourage you to build back-up systems. For example, if there were sandstorms, you would be incentivized to construct a giant power-generation base with hundreds of steam engines and a coal stockpile that only fires up when your solar panels are knocked down due to a sand storm. It would be fun to build that. I agree that having an ice storm wreck your power lines sounds like busy work
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Dec 7, 2016 19:37
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zedprime posted:The game's dirty little secret is everything not on the rocket critical path is technically a distraction if all you want to do is launch a rocket. Logistics networks and power armor and lasers and solar and trains, and poo poo even logistics 2/3 are all masturbation. Even modules can be take or leave depending how involved you expect to get making sure they are in the right place at the right time.
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Dec 7, 2016 19:40
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RyokoTK posted:That sounds about right to me, y'know? The whole point of the game is to tech and design solutions to automatically resolve problems and generate goods. It's a dead-end, though, isn't it? You don't need to automate production of anti-Godzilla spray because there's no consumption to justify it. Like research modules after there's nothing else to research (or destroyer capsules in a peaceful game), the "disaster protection" production chain would just end up gathering dust. I don't like the idea of back-up systems either for large-scale games. 1RPM, for example, already consumes so much power and resources that having a viable back-up for it would mean tens of hours building more mining outposts and more nuclear plants. To throw in an idea so you guys can tell me I'm dumb: I think biomes could be more relevant to gameplay. Desert gives you a penalty for walking/driving but it could also boost solar power. Arctic/snow affects your boilers' performance, but it improves research (keeps your computers cold?). Doesn't have to be such a simple bonus/malus, but right now they're just decorative, with no reason to choose one over the other for any part of your factory.
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Dec 7, 2016 20:02
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seravid posted:
Biomes would be cool, and you could take it in a lot of different directions. Let me get a full SimFarm-esque expansion pack for Factorio! 
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Dec 7, 2016 20:12
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I would pay money to play on an arctic tundra/ice/snow map. Have coniferous tundra replace the existing forest, ice plains replace desert, snow replace grass... yeah. Whenever I'm playing modded minecraft, I love setting my base up in a snowy area.
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Dec 7, 2016 22:00
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Agreed, biomes and especially snowy biomes would be cool. I could see it possibly being a future feature, since the LuaSurfaces are somewhat kind of partway there already. Maybe. (The problem with snowy biomes is the pollution will turn the snow into gross, gray slush  )
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Dec 7, 2016 22:09
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gently caress biomes I want to see the environment to become more and more devastated, grey and dry the more I pollute it and burn every single alien that dares to stand in my way.
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Dec 7, 2016 22:18
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Solumin posted:Agreed, biomes and especially snowy biomes would be cool. I could see it possibly being a future feature, since the LuaSurfaces are somewhat kind of partway there already. Maybe. ElMaligno posted:gently caress biomes I want to see the environment to become more and more devastated, grey and dry the more I pollute it and burn every single alien that dares to stand in my way. I want that to be a thing. Especially if they can start to graphically differentiate different sorts of pollution. eg. All pollution is counted the same for calculations as it is now, but boilers burning coal release black soot ash, where as mining drills seep slag and nasty chemicals into the surroundings. Assemblers cause the area around them to go grey and die and turn water into brown and eventually worse. I want oil sheens on my lakes. I want solar panels to kill the grass below them. Let the world burn
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Dec 7, 2016 22:27
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M_Gargantua posted:Let the world burn  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mvmHwCxw5A Also I burn petroleum for an extra lil gently caress you.
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Dec 7, 2016 22:34
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There is only one biome and it is concrete.
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Dec 7, 2016 23:11
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So, I do have fun making auxiliary steam generators, wiring up the circuits and switches to fire at the right times, and so on. These are only useful if I fail at planning to build enough solar cells. Something (other than day/night) that made them a bit more variable would be interesting.
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Dec 8, 2016 04:33
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Dirk the Average posted:There is only one biome and it is concrete. Amen.
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Dec 8, 2016 04:40
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I think decorations for your factory, or some way to customise the aesthetic, would be interesting. I'd like it because while it's the sort of thing I always totally ignore, I'd like to see what other people would come up with and how much they'd be willing to sacrifice aesthetically when eg they needed a belt to run through their beautiful garden park
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Dec 8, 2016 05:06
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You know, ostensibly this game is about preparing for a colony to land on the planet. So setting up houses and parks would fit in with the alleged plot. I'd love to have gardens or something. Let me make a garden factory.
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Dec 8, 2016 05:19
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Solumin posted:You know, ostensibly this game is about preparing for a colony to land on the planet. So setting up houses and parks would fit in with the alleged plot. Yeah, same! You could have a whole new series of food production to support a population. Actually I think I'm just describe the Anno series
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Dec 8, 2016 05:23
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Solumin posted:You know, ostensibly this game is about preparing for a colony to land on the planet. So setting up houses and parks would fit in with the alleged plot. Is it still about that? I understand the rocket defense was to protect the colony rocket when it landed, but what's the justification of launching rockets now?
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Dec 8, 2016 06:02
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seravid posted:I feel like I'm missing something. Bolded the part you're missing. If it's automated, then you automated it. Building a system redundant and robust enough to self-repair after random failures is an interesting and fun challenge.
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Dec 8, 2016 06:26
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FISHMANPET posted:Is it still about that? I understand the rocket defense was to protect the colony rocket when it landed, but what's the justification of launching rockets now? I always imagined it had something to do with getting a satellite in orbit to put out a distress signal because something something baleful influence of the planet's atmosphere on technobabble subspace communication waves.
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Dec 8, 2016 06:42
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LordSaturn posted:Bolded the part you're missing. If it's automated, then you automated it. Building a system redundant and robust enough to self-repair after random failures is an interesting and fun challenge. Yes, you'd have to set up a production chain and whatnot but, after that's done, the disasters (there was mention of storms and hurricanes) - which would take significant resources for the devs to create - would never be witnessed. If a hurricane
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Dec 8, 2016 08:09
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seravid posted:Yes, you'd have to set up a production chain and whatnot but, after that's done, the disasters (there was mention of storms and hurricanes) - which would take significant resources for the devs to create - would never be witnessed. If a hurricane It's not so much as 'deals damage then leaves', it's 'has an effect on the map for a duration, changing conditions'. The hurricane would be map-wide and would ground your logistics robots, and not do too much real damage. Storms and rain disable your solar fields. Sandstorms clog gun turrets, electrical storms jam laser turrets. Fire is the closest, with 'deals damage until extinguished or burns out'. Also, overuse of flame weapons becomes dangerous. The worst thing that could happen is, say, a fire during a hurricane when you've deconstructed your low-tech hydrants/water turrets in favor of fire suppression robots. Evilreaver fucked around with this message at 08:23 on Dec 8, 2016 |
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Dec 8, 2016 08:19
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Well you'd just ignore those things. As this is a game about automation, what i would really like to see is, for the end end game, extremely resource intensive ways to ultimately generate every resource from electricity and water. Kind of like what's happening with wood and green houses in Bob's mod, but on a much higher scale for metals, like controlled fusion or something. Oil is already infinite so that's fine. This way you can actually create permanently operating giga factories that, while very low productivity compared to factories that take in raw materials, are infinitely scalable in theory.
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Dec 8, 2016 08:29
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seravid posted:Yes, you'd have to set up a production chain and whatnot but, after that's done, the disasters (there was mention of storms and hurricanes) - which would take significant resources for the devs to create - would never be witnessed. If a hurricane Again, you're walking right past it. What happens when lightning strikes manage to segment your drone network? Are you supplying drone hubs to your logistics network? How long does it take to get that back online so your drones can deal with the fire on the other side? Do you build dual-redundant drone hubs forever or do you work to make sure ALL parts of your factory can be quickly replaced? Maybe you set up blueprints such that replacement hubs get banked in requester chests throughout the mesh. A disaster system creates logistics problems to solve. "Hurr durr well once they're all solved that's just boring." Once you're launching a rocket every minute, that's just boring. Anything is boring once it's over.
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Dec 8, 2016 08:30
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None of these disasters sound at all interesting to solve. And until you have your solution in place, they sound even worse to clean up after. Biter attacks are already a sort of natural disaster, and people already turn them off because they're just not fun. And biters at least are predictable and have an entire tech tree dedicated to solving them in different ways, unlike these other suggestions. What makes you think that disasters would fare any better?
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Dec 8, 2016 09:57
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alpha centauri mushroom worm menace mod when
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Dec 8, 2016 14:14
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the only "worm menace" mod I want is Dune
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Dec 8, 2016 14:18
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Desert biomes spawn huge worms? 
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Dec 8, 2016 14:21
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Occasionally emerging from the depths of the ocean, it is BITERZILLA
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Dec 8, 2016 14:39
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Jabor posted:the only "worm menace" mod I want is Dune That'd be a good one -- if you fail to launch enough spice rockets, the Emperor drops a legion of Sardaukar on you
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Dec 8, 2016 16:12
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GenericOverusedName posted:Occasionally emerging from the depths of the ocean, it is BITERZILLA And you have to enter its gaping maw, Factorissimo style, and build a factory inside it to reroute its bodily fluids to DESTROY IT.  (No, please.)
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Dec 8, 2016 16:34
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XkyRauh posted:And you have to enter its gaping maw, Factorissimo style, and build a factory inside it to reroute its bodily fluids to DESTROY IT. I'm getting flashbacks to some rather contrived puzzles in Infinifactory
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Dec 8, 2016 16:46
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I'm having trouble understanding fluid physics - I've got the rail tanker mod with two tank cars, and my oil sites feature 4 storage tank that have a mutual input from the oil field (but are otherwise not directly connected), then 4 small pumps each connected by a single pipe-to-ground to load the tankers - but half my oil sites only load oil into one of the tankers. Also, my unloading is 4 small pumps per tanker, but it doesn't seem to suck out the expected 100+ units/s. Also, is there any sort of effective way to get 150 units/second from my oil receiving station to my recursive factorissimo refinery? My internet research seems to indicate the only effective way of doing this is to have a penta-pump station every time your pipe to ground comes up for air. Basically, is there any sort of reasonable explanation of fluid mechanics online that I"m just not finding with my googling?
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Dec 8, 2016 16:55
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Zomborgon posted:I'm getting flashbacks to some rather contrived puzzles in Infinifactory I hope its like the whale one because I solved that one by being extremely wastefull
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Dec 8, 2016 16:59
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ElMaligno posted:I hope its like the whale one because I solved that one by being extremely wastefull Wall of grinders and then a sorting track? Same.
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Dec 8, 2016 17:00
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Zomborgon posted:Wall of grinders and then a sorting track? Same. I used 2 bits of flesh and 2 bits of fat. Per whale. So like a hundred or so whales.
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Dec 8, 2016 17:07
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LordSaturn posted:Again, you're walking right past it. What happens when lightning strikes manage to segment your drone network? Are you supplying drone hubs to your logistics network? How long does it take to get that back online so your drones can deal with the fire on the other side? Do you build dual-redundant drone hubs forever or do you work to make sure ALL parts of your factory can be quickly replaced? Maybe you set up blueprints such that replacement hubs get banked in requester chests throughout the mesh. Do you build your roboports in a straight line? Losing one or two or three wouldn't segment anything. Yes, I'm supplying ports - along with every part of the factory that might need replacement or be used in a blueprint - to the network, aren't you? And if I expected lightning to somehow precision strike my network, I would indeed solve this logistics problem by zegermans posted:I'm having trouble understanding fluid physics - I've got the rail tanker mod with two tank cars, and my oil sites feature 4 storage tank that have a mutual input from the oil field (but are otherwise not directly connected), then 4 small pumps each connected by a single pipe-to-ground to load the tankers - but half my oil sites only load oil into one of the tankers. Also, my unloading is 4 small pumps per tanker, but it doesn't seem to suck out the expected 100+ units/s. Can you post a pic of the oil site? Are all four unloading pumps actually working? Try putting two on each side at the center of the wagon.
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Dec 8, 2016 18:45
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I think biters are good because the threat is localized and pretty predictable, with a lot tech that specifically serves the purpose of preventing the damage they can cause. So just like you've got separate areas of your base where you process oil, or generate power, or manufacture different things, the outer perimeter is it's own area of your factory, which you build with its own designs, and which serves its own purpose. You don't have to build turrets all over your oil processing area, because that job is already being handled somewhere else. If anything in your whole base was under constant threat of being destroyed or knocked out by RNG weather events, what specific infrastructure lets you build or design around that? It just means you'd have to massively overbuild everything, everywhere, all the time. If losing this power pole knocks out the whole grid, build two. Or three. Or twenty, just in case. It's not a specific, focused threat with a specific design solution, it's just "build lots of extra stuff because any of it could break at any time."
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Dec 8, 2016 20:06
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I just think fighting biters is really boring and dumb. Whenever I play with peaceful disabled I always have to overbuild anyway because I do not want to fight them. I think the combat is pretty one-dimensional and has no rewards. Especially in the early game when you're hitting the first pollution thresholds, if you aren't ready for the attacks it's a huge nuisance and a setback. And you have to deal with it, you can't just ride out a biter attack, which is probably the biggest problem for me. If biters find their way past my perimeter, I have to get over there and clean it up, even if it's just one or two little guys, and that's the real pits. I would rather have violent weather patterns that worsened as your pollution output increased and caused rapid climate change. In the early game, rain or strong winds wouldn't be too severe and would encourage you to tech out of flimsy wooden power poles into the steel stuff, or something. At least with a bad storm you can just wait for it to pass through and clean up afterward, and I think it would be a more fun way of stress-testing a fully established factory with backup power and maintenance and so forth. Not to mention it would give a little bit more late-game utility to stuff like steam engines. Solar is very clearly and plainly better than steam once you can afford it right now, but it would be interesting (to me) to have to keep the antiquated stuff around as an occasional fallback if the snow was severe enough to throttle my solar plants. I dunno. I see the value of having external threats in games like this and Sim City; it's a means to stress-test what you've built and get you to respond to something. I play peaceful in this game because I think the biters are very poorly implemented, but I play with disasters on in Sim City. Weather effects would also just be visually interesting imo. 
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Dec 8, 2016 20:28
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What if biters behaved more like an enemy faction in an RTS? *cough* Starcraft. The game could independently track the total amount of pollution you've produced as well as the current location-based pollution numbers. Biter bases across the map would gain access to an additional RTS-style tech-tree of buildings based on the global pollution total, and any particular biter base would grow in size/unit production based on the amount of local pollution. And then on top of that a little bit of AI could be added, and then suddenly you'd have: "my walls and turrets were very effective against the ground-biters, killed a ton of them, but a horde of mutalisks just flew over them all" or "the enemy's started growing worms within spitting distance of my turret wall". Seems to me it would certainly make things more interesting; then all you'd need to do is tune the attack frequency so it doesn't become repetitive or too time-consuming, and add enough biter tech-tree diversity so that they have a number of different unpredictable ways to counter you.
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Dec 8, 2016 20:37
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