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I would love if they could do a proper Spider-Mobile in the movies but it's also one of those things that you can't do unless he's more established. Constantly rebooting him means he's always just starting out. The Spider-Mobile tends to be remembered as some kind of lame black spot on his comic history but it was told perfectly. A lame cash-in by some corporate stooges that even Spider-Man didn't want or care about that gets immediately trashed... until issues later it comes back controlled by an enemy and he has to fight it! Burkion posted:I think the Death of Gwen Stacy might have broken the Spider-Man comics Conway was responsible for all of it so maybe he was just broken. It's interesting to wonder what it would have been like if Roy Thomas had continued to write because Conway was the first guy after Stan Lee to be the writer for a while.
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Dec 8, 2016 20:49
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I want a Cyberpunk Spider-Man.
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Dec 8, 2016 20:53
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I want spiderman in space Have him join the guardians of the galaxy
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Dec 8, 2016 20:55
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So did people really not like Jesse Eisenberg's Luthor?
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Dec 8, 2016 20:54
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There was a cyberpunk Spider-Man in space it was called Spider-Man Unlimited. He went to counter earth to track down venom and carnage and wound up in the resistance against the high evolutionary. I think it lasted one season, maybe less.
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Dec 8, 2016 20:57
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Aurubin posted:So did people really not like Jesse Eisenberg's Luthor? Correct. And I like BvS. I think it's a good but flawed movie, and my main issue with it is Luthor.
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Dec 8, 2016 21:01
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He's definitely not the traditional take on Luthor but I enjoyed him a lot, he was much closer to the silver age mad scientist Luthor
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Dec 8, 2016 21:04
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Luthor could have been great as just another side of Bruce Wayne in that movie. Dude probably lost as much of his business and people during the climax of MoS. Could have been cool seeing two different approaches to a solution to "this alien can't be allowed to destroy our planet," but instead Luthor's just crazy/under control of another alien.
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Dec 8, 2016 21:05
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bvs luthor was great and the amount of people who just got 'he's crazy' out of it is really baffling to me
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Dec 8, 2016 21:13
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Mordiceius posted:I want a Cyberpunk Spider-Man. Well, we got Punk Spider-Man during SpiderVerse. Then there was that time he teamed up with Deathlok and had a bionic arm and pouches. So...sorta.
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Dec 8, 2016 21:16
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Brother Entropy posted:bvs luthor was great and the amount of people who just got 'he's crazy' out of it is really baffling to me I suppose when you have to dust off the word misotheism for a character it loses some of it's easy charm. Still, I liked God-Hating Mark Zuckerburg just like I liked I'm Too Old For This poo poo Batman. So maybe I'm wrong.
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Dec 8, 2016 21:17
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Soul Glo posted:Could have been cool seeing two different approaches to a solution to "this alien can't be allowed to destroy our planet," but instead Luthor's just crazy/under control of another alien. That's exactly what it was. Luthor didn't encounter the other alien until near the end of the movie.
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Dec 8, 2016 21:19
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Brother Entropy posted:bvs luthor was great and the amount of people who just got 'he's crazy' out of it is really baffling to me People feel this way but the opposite. I dunno, the extended version of BvS is alright to me, but really, just make this poo poo as crystal clear as possible in the story area. Make the visuals the part that's filled with meaning. If Luthor's motivations were crystal clear, and I mean like , super crystal clear, people wouldn't have that much of an issue with him. Like he wants to kill Superman because his dad was bad to him and God never came or whatever. Like, I guess, but it's such a quick line that it's understandable people missed it. They needed to devote a scene to that early on. Oh I'm sure people are going to argue and say a bunch of smug poo poo, but whatever. Spoon feeding character motivation is good. You set that up, half the work is already done for you.
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Dec 8, 2016 21:19
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Detective No. 27 posted:That's exactly what it was. Luthor didn't encounter the other alien until near the end of the movie. Well we can't be totally sure. He could have started contacting them from the moment he ordered the computer "show me".
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Dec 8, 2016 21:21
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greatn posted:Well we can't be totally sure. He could have started contacting them from the moment he ordered the computer "show me". Perhaps. But that was still maybe 2 hours into the movie, and well after Lex started his plans of getting the world to distrust Superman and manipulating Bruce into killing him.
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Dec 8, 2016 21:23
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CelticPredator posted:People feel this way but the opposite. does 'you seem to have extremely little faith in a movie-goer' count as a bunch of smug poo poo
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Dec 8, 2016 21:23
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isn't Spider-Man 2099 cyberpunk? I only really know of it from Shattered Dimensions
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Dec 8, 2016 21:25
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luthor literally explains his motivations in one of the most climatic scenes in the movie setting up the big titular fight and you still think the movie should've been more clear that he has issues with anyone else holding power over him
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Dec 8, 2016 21:25
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Yeah. because it's cool and good to understand characters EARLY ON so that you can focus on other poo poo. Even like, Under The Skin has pretty clear concise character motivations. Alien comes to earth, is there to consume humans. (or whatever). GOT IT! Lex Luthor is constantly left mysterious and that makes me people frustrated. It made me a little frustrated too. And by the point in the film when it came, it was like...okay? It's just not great storytelling in my opinion.
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Dec 8, 2016 21:26
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nah you can read luthor like an open book right from that scene where he gives his big charity speech; he's obsessed with the idea of power and sees knowledge as a way to achieve power and the idea that someone new on the scene is more powerful than him despite all his knowledge rattles the gently caress out of him
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Dec 8, 2016 21:27
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Yeah I dunno. I think that character needed more work. He's got a good start and an interesting idea, but what's on paper and what's on screen don't gel for me and other people apperently. Oh well?
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Dec 8, 2016 21:29
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Brother Entropy posted:nah you can read luthor like an open book right from that scene where he gives his big charity speech; he's obsessed with the idea of power and sees knowledge as a way to achieve power and the idea that someone new on the scene is more powerful than him despite all his knowledge rattles the gently caress out of him The charity dinner speech is really good.
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Dec 8, 2016 21:36
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So Luthor hated the god alien that came down to us. He might destroy us all. So what he did was create an even worse god alien that was uncontrollable. That's a bit snarky, so I'll say I really don't quite get what he was doing in the movie. Was he hoping he could control Doomsday? Did he have a moment of realization at any point that he failed? Was he still controlling Doomsday? I kind of get his plan for having Batman kill Superman. I don't 100% know why he thought Batman could. Or how he found out both Superman and Batman's secret identities. I guess Luthor is the world's greatest criminal mastermind. But he's not presented as that in this movie. He's smart, sure, you see him doing science-y stuff. But he's also a bit of a rambling mess, like in his speech. But his Doomsday plan is a bit more difficult for me to figure out. He turned on the spaceship, and wanted to remake Zod to kill Superman? Did he just gently caress up when it made an uncontrollable monster? If he doesn't like Superman, I don't get why he'd want to make Doomsday. The extended edition implies he's being controlled by an alien being. But that's not in the movie. And he was already a bit off the deep end before he even gained access to the ship. So I am genuinely puzzled by his character.
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Dec 8, 2016 21:38
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:The charity dinner speech is really good. that moment where he drops the facade and seethes at the contradiction of having knowledge but no power before composing himself again eisenberg sold me right there, the rest of him trying to pull one over on the lady senator or his cynicism in how god can either be all-good or all-powerful that was all just gravy
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Dec 8, 2016 21:40
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"Books are knowledge and knowledge is power, and I am... no. Um, no. What am I? What was I saying? The bittersweet pain among men is having knowledge with no power because... because that is *paradoxical* and, um... thank you for coming." ^Yup, crystal clear character motivation right there, such brilliant writing.
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Dec 8, 2016 21:42
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I don't think Batman v Superman needed more explanations. I watched the extended edition and it just seemed ridiculously bloated. There was just so much there that didn't need to be. You could have pretty much excised Lois' plot line entirely. Same with Wonder Woman. And everything involving Justice League. I don't think explaining Luthor's motives was necessary, I just didn't find his motives very compelling. Just a kind of mish-mash of paranoia, egotism, and daddy issues.
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Dec 8, 2016 21:44
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Karloff posted:"Books are knowledge and knowledge is power, and I am... no. Um, no. What am I? What was I saying? The bittersweet pain among men is having knowledge with no power because... because that is *paradoxical* and, um... thank you for coming." I agree.
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Dec 8, 2016 21:45
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It is clear, it's a guy who feels like he's lost power trying his best to compose himself. The performance sells it.
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Dec 8, 2016 21:46
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:The charity dinner speech is really good. His rooftop rant to Superman was probably my favorite moment for BvS Lex but the charity speech is really good too.
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Dec 8, 2016 21:46
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Phylodox posted:I don't think Batman v Superman needed more explanations. I watched the extended edition and it just seemed ridiculously bloated. There was just so much there that didn't need to be. You could have pretty much excised Lois' plot line entirely. Same with Wonder Woman. And everything involving Justice League. I don't think explaining Luthor's motives was necessary, I just didn't find his motives very compelling. Just a kind of mish-mash of paranoia, egotism, and daddy issues. What was wrong with Lois' plot? She figured out Lex's true plan before Batman or Superman.
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Dec 8, 2016 21:54
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CelticPredator posted:People feel this way but the opposite. I think BvS did this extremely well, to the point where a lot of the things most viewers/reviewers complained about was precisely because various things were shown via visuals rather than stated explicitly in dialogue.
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Dec 8, 2016 21:57
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Equeen posted:What was wrong with Lois' plot? She figured out Lex's true plan before Batman or Superman. Yeah, and then got kidnapped and used as bait and then Lex told Superman his whole plan, anyways. It's like they gave her a whole lot to do to avoid the whole "Lois is just a damsel in distress" thing, then the only time she directly influences the plot is by being a damsel in distress. And Wonder Woman should probably have been replaced with Waller.
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Dec 8, 2016 21:58
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Phylodox posted:Yeah, and then got kidnapped and used as bait and then Lex told Superman his whole plan, anyways. It's like they gave her a whole lot to do to avoid the whole "Lois is just a damsel in distress" thing, then the only time she directly influences the plot is by being a damsel in distress. Waller would have looked weird battling Doomsday.
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Dec 8, 2016 21:59
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thrawn527 posted:Waller would have looked weird battling Doomsday. Okay a) she didn't need to be part of the final battle and b) gently caress you, Viola Davis would have loving rocked it in that scene.
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Dec 8, 2016 22:00
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thrawn527 posted:Waller would have looked weird battling Doomsday. Waller with the WW Shield would have been a dope visual though. Phylodox posted:Okay a) she didn't need to be part of the final battle and b) gently caress you, Viola Davis would have loving rocked it in that scene. It would have been cool if she had been the one to call in the nuke while Supes and Dooms had fought in space
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Dec 8, 2016 21:59
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MacheteZombie posted:Waller with the WW Shield would have been a dope visual though. Forget the shield, she could have just had a steely glare competition with him. And won. Movie over.
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Dec 8, 2016 22:01
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CelticPredator posted:Oh I'm sure people are going to argue and say a bunch of smug poo poo, but whatever. Spoon feeding character motivation is good. You set that up, half the work is already done for you. So you don't want us to condescend to you, but if the film did it that would be an improvement. Brother Entropy posted:eisenberg sold me right there, the rest of him trying to pull one over on the lady senator or his cynicism in how god can either be all-good or all-powerful that was all just gravy the problem of evil isn't cynicism though
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Dec 8, 2016 22:03
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Phylodox posted:Forget the shield, she could have just had a steely glare competition with him. And won. Movie over. "But it's Doomsday! However you kill him he just comes back immune to what killed him!" "Oh, I'm not going to kill him. I'm not even going to fight him." *GLOWER POWER* *Doomsday scampers away, whimpering*
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Dec 8, 2016 22:03
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Karloff posted:"Books are knowledge and knowledge is power, and I am... no. Um, no. What am I? What was I saying? The bittersweet pain among men is having knowledge with no power because... because that is *paradoxical* and, um... thank you for coming." It is. You're confusing a fictional character's inability to examine himself honestly with bad writing.
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Dec 8, 2016 22:05
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Phylodox posted:Okay a) she didn't need to be part of the final battle and b) gently caress you, Viola Davis would have loving rocked it in that scene. MacheteZombie posted:Waller with the WW Shield would have been a dope visual though. Phylodox posted:Forget the shield, she could have just had a steely glare competition with him. And won. Movie over. Yeah...I actually can't disagree with any of this.
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Dec 8, 2016 22:07
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