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If you want an exploration of post-scarcity which is not completely retarded and inconsistent, just read the Culture series (btw just lmao if you enjoy sci-fi and haven't read everything Iain M Banks ever wrote). And yeah it's pretty obvious if you think about it for 5 minutes that persistent contact with a post-scarcity economy would wreck a capitalist society. Best just to assume that Picard is parroting some idealistic Federation philosophy that reflects their aspirations rather than reality
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Dec 10, 2016 12:45
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dont even fink about it posted:"Hey, it looks like we have some money." look at this herbert
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Dec 10, 2016 12:53
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I'm cool with it just being if you want to run a little restaurant and beam to Hawaii every weekend, you'll never have to worry about how much it costs, but if you're managing an entire planet's reconstruction or building a warfleet or just want to own your own moon, yeah, you're going to need to worry about trade and finances and things. There's an economy on a civilization's level, but it really doesn't affect individuals.
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Dec 10, 2016 12:59
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If the idea of a utopian future where people work together and there are no more rich guys loving us all over doesn't make your heart swell even slightly despite the inconsistent portrayal by a syndicated network TV show then you're a soulless minion of orthodoxy
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Dec 10, 2016 13:03
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Timby posted:Didn't Gabe Köerner (the weirdo from Trekkies who did that hideous 1701 redesign) provide the CGI model for that? I got the guys number in my cell phone want me to call and ask him? Edit: also made this video with him a few years ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUWOGyjloQw Dicky mouse fucked around with this message at 13:47 on Dec 10, 2016 |
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Dec 10, 2016 13:39
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Knormal posted:I'm not sure why Star Trek is on BBC America constantly now, but I was watching The Ultimate Computer and I didn't remember that in this instance of Kirk talking a computer to death he convinces the M5 to turn itself off because "the punishment for murder is death". drat, not even modern America sentences all murders to death. Also murder is wrong because "it's against man and God". Some pretty non-Star Trek ideas in this episode. TOS was written in the 60s in an American and more or less Christian mindset. Up until the 1960s the death penalty was heavily used in the USA, rather more so than today in fact. In the 60s the vast majority (as in 90% or more) of Americans were some flavor of Christian. TOS reflecting these things isn't evidence of "non-Star Trek ideas", it's a reminder of the kind of place Star Trek's ideas originally come from.
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Dec 10, 2016 15:30
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There's the episode with Apollo telling the crew that humanity needs gods to worship and Kirk being all "one God is enough for us" 
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Dec 10, 2016 16:28
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Or at the end of the Roman episode they figure out that the rebel slaves were Christians, and everyone is like  rather than having their minds blown by this pretty much incontrovertible evidence that Jesus visited an alien planet.
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Dec 10, 2016 17:32
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I feel like this bit from DS9 was the last word on the economics of Star Trek Seriously though, I feel like trying to figure out exactly how the future socialist utopia works is about as productive as trying to figure out what "chronitons" are.
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Dec 10, 2016 18:19
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Timby posted:Seems to be a fairly accurate cross-section of the USS Hyperriker. Wasn't that the USS Enterprise NCC-1701-JFAZW, or am I forgetting an actual USS Hyperriker?
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Dec 10, 2016 18:47
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skasion posted:Or at the end of the Roman episode they figure out that the rebel slaves were Christians, and everyone is like I loved the part of that episode where the crew conveniently forgot about Sol Invictus.
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Dec 10, 2016 20:49
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Wait. Wait. What if the J. Sisko in that chart is Jennifer Sisko???
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Dec 10, 2016 20:51
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If her Mirror counterpart was any indication, she was pretty willing to sell out her own kind to the Bajoran empire until her ex said "please stop".
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Dec 10, 2016 20:52
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King Hong Kong posted:I loved the part of that episode where the crew conveniently forgot about Sol Invictus. Just lol if you think any Trek writer in any era has ever cracked a history book. Look at poor Mark Twain
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Dec 10, 2016 21:12
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Dicky mouse posted:I got the guys number in my cell phone want me to call and ask him? I like this guy's transition from awkward nerd, to kinda cute nerd back around to awkward nerd. The cosmic ballet goes on.
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Dec 10, 2016 23:10
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Angry Salami posted:I'm cool with it just being if you want to run a little restaurant and beam to Hawaii every weekend, you'll never have to worry about how much it costs, but if you're managing an entire planet's reconstruction or building a warfleet or just want to own your own moon, yeah, you're going to need to worry about trade and finances and things. There's an economy on a civilization's level, but it really doesn't affect individuals. (I always loving crack up when Quark says it EXACTLY like that, even when he's talking to, like, Nog.)
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Dec 10, 2016 23:32
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https://twitter.com/tng_s8?lang=en
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Dec 10, 2016 23:38
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skasion posted:TOS was written in the 60s in an American and more or less Christian mindset. Up until the 1960s the death penalty was heavily used in the USA, rather more so than today in fact. In the 60s the vast majority (as in 90% or more) of Americans were some flavor of Christian. TOS reflecting these things isn't evidence of "non-Star Trek ideas", it's a reminder of the kind of place Star Trek's ideas originally come from. The next episode up was the Yangs vs. Kohms one, which also included this awesome religious imagery that I'd similarly forgotten about. 
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Dec 11, 2016 00:00
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I unironically think Kirk's speech at the end of The Omega Glory kicks rear end.
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Dec 11, 2016 00:03
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I forgot about this Twitter account. Holy poo poo I'm dying. "Roman centurions force Riker to fight a gorilla. There's no room for a side story here: the main plot is too epic. Also: it's a 3-parter." Also: how the gently caress do you embed tweets in this place? How do I not already know how to do this?
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Dec 11, 2016 00:13
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Just paste the link and the forums take care of it. https://twitter.com/TNG_S8/status/243789286296649728
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Dec 11, 2016 00:16
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King Hong Kong posted:I loved the part of that episode where the crew conveniently forgot about Sol Invictus. Kirk: "Captain's log, stardate 4040.7: it was okay; nowhere near the peak of Angel Dust, but it was good to hear a new record from the band regardless."
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Dec 11, 2016 00:20
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MorgaineDax posted:Just paste the link and the forums take care of it. Ok. I tried that and it didn't show up in the preview, but it may just be my browser being a dumbass. Let me test it: https://twitter.com/TNG_S8/status/361990336274366465 Edit: well, there we go. Carry on.
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Dec 11, 2016 00:20
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Yeah watching TOS as someone who grew up on TNG was a trip. The religion, the portrayals of women that I'm sure were progressive in their day but are horribly sexist by modern standards, and weird canon stuff like Klingons not being obsessed with honor or McCoy offhandedly mentioning that Vulcan was conquered by Earth.
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Dec 11, 2016 00:29
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Probably when you're on earth or some other fully developed world in the Federation you can do pretty much what you like, but if you're on some new colony it's probably a lot rougher, maybe like living the midwest. I enjoyed that when Martok is shown to be a Founder, all the Klingons in the hall instantly start firing at it. And TOS early on was so inconstant i'd not use anything from it as canon unless its verified again. At one point Kirk mentions he serves the United Space Prob Agency.
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Dec 11, 2016 04:26
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Sometimes I wonder how Deep Space Nine would've gone if the wormhole was never found and Sisko managed to keep the Cardassians at bay, all "frontier" like Bashir puts it.
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Dec 11, 2016 05:59
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Very boringly.
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Dec 11, 2016 06:06
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If they never found the wormhole, Sisko wouldn't have had his come to Jesus moment that helped him get over the death of his wife, so he and Jake would've gone back to Earth as he intended to do originally and Starfleet would've given the post to someone else. Maybe someone we saw later who was working elsewhere in the sector on similar issues, like Cal Hudson or Admiral Nechayev. DS9 would then become a possible Maquis-friendly port via Hudson or the Non-Stop Nechayev & Kira Power Hour where they take turns tossing Quark out of airlocks.
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Dec 11, 2016 06:12
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The Tal Shiar and Obsidian Order should've just blown up the wormhole instead of some half-assed attempt to kill the Dominion. Hell, after they hosed up the Federation should've blown up the wormhole.
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Dec 11, 2016 06:13
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nerdman42 posted:Sometimes I wonder how Deep Space Nine would've gone if the wormhole was never found and Sisko managed to keep the Cardassians at bay, all "frontier" like Bashir puts it. Well, DS9 would have still been the largest (and only I think) space port for Bajor but without the drama/excitement/adventure the wormhole brings it would just end up being the mostly boring office job style posting Starfleet expected it to be. I seriously doubt Bajor would have moved to become a member of the Federation. Starfleet would have run DS9 for maybe 5 years before being asked to leave.
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Dec 11, 2016 06:18
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so there's an entire carny planet, and Ralph is the Guardian of it? this is a pretty fun ep! 
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Dec 11, 2016 06:21
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VanSandman posted:The Tal Shiar and Obsidian Order should've just blown up the wormhole instead of some half-assed attempt to kill the Dominion. Hell, after they hosed up the Federation should've blown up the wormhole. For real. As soon as the Dominion started coming through and loving things up, The Tal Shiar would have said "this could threaten us eventually." Then they would send some cloaked warbirds to suicide attack the wormhole until it was destroyed. it would cause some bad PR for the Romulans, but why should they even care?
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Dec 11, 2016 06:37
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Cojawfee posted:For real. As soon as the Dominion started coming through and loving things up, The Tal Shiar would have said "this could threaten us eventually." Then they would send some cloaked warbirds to suicide attack the wormhole until it was destroyed. it would cause some bad PR for the Romulans, but why should they even care? I mean, poo poo, if it wasn't for O'Brien being temporally displaced in that one episode, they would have destroyed Deep Space Nine in a surprise attack. Someone should write a
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Dec 11, 2016 06:50
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Cojawfee posted:For real. As soon as the Dominion started coming through and loving things up, The Tal Shiar would have said "this could threaten us eventually." Then they would send some cloaked warbirds to suicide attack the wormhole until it was destroyed. it would cause some bad PR for the Romulans, but why should they even care?
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Dec 11, 2016 06:58
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Nessus posted:I think the "bad PR" would have been "war with the Federation and perhaps also the Klingons, very likely with Ferengi support given all their efforts." And once the Dominion shows up, well, then they have to deal with the Dominion. They spent 7 seasons of TNG trying to trick the Federation into firing the first shot of a new war.
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Dec 11, 2016 07:06
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twistedmentat posted:And TOS early on was so inconstant i'd not use anything from it as canon unless its verified again. At one point Kirk mentions he serves the United Space Prob Agency. I always thought that was just Kirk loving with the guy for fun.
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Dec 11, 2016 07:08
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Just saw some fuckin' Remans on Enterprise. Nice that they at least tried to respect the amazing world-building that went on in Nemesis.
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Dec 11, 2016 07:12
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Baronjutter posted:Just saw some fuckin' Remans on Enterprise. Nice that they at least tried to respect the amazing world-building that went on in Nemesis. "Looks like you met these guys 'B4' you were supposed to.  " - Crewman Daniels
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Dec 11, 2016 07:14
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I always thought the Romulan War as Enterprise S5 would have made for great TV. It's such a shame.
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Dec 11, 2016 07:16
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WickedHate posted:I always thought the Romulan War as Enterprise S5 would have made for great TV. It's such a shame. Yeah, showing a huge DS9 style all out total war at the birth of the federation vs the romcoms but never actually encountering any of them in the flesh would be interesting to see. It could also easily be hand-waved away by them just sending in remans as disposable shock troops in situations where troops are needed. Although I guess the mystery of who the romulans are would be totally ruined for the audience since everyone knows who they are and what they look like.
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Dec 11, 2016 07:59
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