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It's too bad they hosed things up by having view screens, because the radio only space submarine vibe would have been cool.
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Dec 11, 2016 08:10
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They didn't want to make that kind of sacrifice because it would severely impair their ability to tell TNG-like stories, which I guess is a big reason why both Enterprise and Voyager
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Dec 11, 2016 08:15
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And yet, DS9 had nearly twice as many seasons as Enterprise. Truly, the wisdom of executives is boundless.
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Dec 11, 2016 08:19
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Baronjutter posted:Yeah, showing a huge DS9 style all out total war at the birth of the federation vs the romcoms but never actually encountering any of them in the flesh would be interesting to see. It could also easily be hand-waved away by them just sending in remans as disposable shock troops in situations where troops are needed. Although I guess the mystery of who the romulans are would be totally ruined for the audience since everyone knows who they are and what they look like. Then they have to cover it up so the new Vulcan government or whatever doesn't fall. How topical! Alternately, Rom shock troops are all Breen'd up death commandos.
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Dec 11, 2016 08:25
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Baronjutter posted:Although I guess the mystery of who the romulans are would be totally ruined for the audience since everyone knows who they are and what they look like. Just make the klingons look even more different in Enterprise with no explanation.
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Dec 11, 2016 08:29
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VanSandman posted:The Tal Shiar and Obsidian Order should've just blown up the wormhole instead of some half-assed attempt to kill the Dominion. Hell, after they hosed up the Federation should've blown up the wormhole. Sisko would never have let the Federation try and nuke it, he would have gone rogue to stop them due to the Prophets I'm sure.
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Dec 11, 2016 08:43
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WickedHate posted:It's too bad they hosed things up by having view screens, because the radio only space submarine vibe would have been cool. There's a level of stupidity the audience won't accept, and having them not have the advanced super-technology for video screens in the 22nd century is one of them. Having the Romulans refuse to use video would've worked, though.
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Dec 11, 2016 09:58
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Also the way that cloaking devices make ships invisible to the naked eye, as if that's something anyone in space would care about.
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Dec 11, 2016 10:04
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MikeJF posted:There's a level of stupidity the audience won't accept, and having them not have the advanced super-technology for video screens in the 22nd century is one of them. Have the romulans use a cool-as-gently caress obvious CGI avatar.
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Dec 11, 2016 10:22
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Pakled posted:Yeah watching TOS as someone who grew up on TNG was a trip. The religion, the portrayals of women that I'm sure were progressive in their day but are horribly sexist by modern standards, and weird canon stuff like Klingons not being obsessed with honor or McCoy offhandedly mentioning that Vulcan was conquered by Earth. So in order: TOS was horribly sexist, even for the era, TOS Klingons own, and the conquest line is pretty ambiguous, but definitely weird. twistedmentat posted:
It's mentioned several times, actually. Usually they just refer to it as "UESPA" though. Also, neither Star Fleet nor the Federation are ever really spelled out in TOS. The Fed seems more like a space UN than the integrated country it will be later and Star Fleet seems like it's a strictly human/Earth organization throughout. Most of that stuff didn't become clear until the movies.
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Dec 11, 2016 10:34
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In TOS they call it "the Star Fleet" a lot.
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Dec 11, 2016 11:13
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UESPA even has a callous or two in Enterprise.
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Dec 11, 2016 11:14
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Yeah, if you were watching reruns in 1968 and frantically trying to kludge together a continuity (like all those poor bastards who thought "stardates" mattered), you'd have every reason to think that the Enterprise was an "Earth ship" working for the "United Earth Space Probe Agency" as part of a "Star Fleet" of other Earth ships (with Spock as the one alien member) that sometimes worked with a UN-like "United Federation of Planets." Basically everything we think we know about the Star Trek setting is one big retcon.
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Dec 11, 2016 11:23
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Duckbag posted:Yeah, if you were watching reruns in 1968 and frantically trying to kludge together a continuity (like all those poor bastards who thought "stardates" mattered), you'd have every reason to think that the Enterprise was an "Earth ship" working for the "United Earth Space Probe Agency" as part of a "Star Fleet" of other Earth ships (with Spock as the one alien member) that sometimes worked with a UN-like "United Federation of Planets." This sounds like Vulcanian logic.
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Dec 11, 2016 12:12
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VanSandman posted:The Tal Shiar and Obsidian Order should've just blown up the wormhole instead of some half-assed attempt to kill the Dominion. Hell, after they hosed up the Federation should've blown up the wormhole. This comes up actually, they try to destroy the wormhole with a science beam but sabatoge reverses the polarity to where it can't be destroyed anymore.
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Dec 11, 2016 12:43
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Do the psychic aliens from the first episode that live in the wormhole and don't understand time or space ever come up again? Or is that just entirely a plot device representing Sisko getting over himself?
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Dec 11, 2016 13:04
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dont even fink about it posted:Do the psychic aliens from the first episode that live in the wormhole and don't understand time or space ever come up again? Or is that just entirely a plot device representing Sisko getting over himself? You what mate
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Dec 11, 2016 13:22
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Yes, yes they do. Quite often in fact.
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Dec 11, 2016 13:28
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8one6 posted:Well, DS9 would have still been the largest (and only I think) space port for Bajor but without the drama/excitement/adventure the wormhole brings it would just end up being the mostly boring office job style posting Starfleet expected it to be. I seriously doubt Bajor would have moved to become a member of the Federation. Starfleet would have run DS9 for maybe 5 years before being asked to leave. Which is what they all expected it to be when they got there. That must have been some duff assignment for Dax. "Here's your new posting. Nominally it's a science officer posting, but you'll actually be doing traffic control and docking procedures for the next seven years."
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Dec 11, 2016 13:30
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Ikasuhito posted:Yes, yes they do. Quite often in fact. Oh right, derr. I'm going to go to bed now.
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Dec 11, 2016 13:45
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socialsecurity posted:This comes up actually, they try to destroy the wormhole with a science beam but sabatoge reverses the polarity to where it can't be destroyed anymore. Yeah the Federation tries it right before the invasion. That Bajoran terrorist who tried to blow up the wormhole in season 1 or 2 could've saved billions of lives. There could have been interesting stories if the Klingons, Romulans, and Cardassians and everyone else were empire-building in the Delta Quadrant kind of like the great African land grab and the Dominion response was because the foreigners were building an empire in their back yard, but since they didn't have the series plotted out that far in advance, it never happened. VanSandman fucked around with this message at 13:55 on Dec 11, 2016 |
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Dec 11, 2016 13:52
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Who signed off on the character design for Neelix? He's an ugly little rat man with the worst fashion sense in the galaxy, did they want the audience to be constantly repulsed when he was on screen?
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Dec 11, 2016 16:10
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Baronjutter posted:Just saw some fuckin' Remans on Enterprise. Nice that they at least tried to respect the amazing world-building that went on in Nemesis. Cojawfee posted:"Looks like you met these guys 'B4' you were supposed to. Sigh. Prequels are the worst. Pwnstar posted:Who signed off on the character design for Neelix? He's an ugly little rat man with the worst fashion sense in the galaxy, did they want the audience to be constantly repulsed when he was on screen? A thousand times this. His fashion sense is like all those weird space napkins/blankets/fabric they always use on Trek. 
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Dec 11, 2016 16:56
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" - Crewman Daniels
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How does Janeway burn a replicated pot roast and why is she serving it to Chakotay, a vegetarian?
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Dec 11, 2016 17:10
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MikeJF posted:There's a level of stupidity the audience won't accept, and having them not have the advanced super-technology for video screens in the 22nd century is one of them. Fister Roboto posted:Also the way that cloaking devices make ships invisible to the naked eye, as if that's something anyone in space would care about. Hmm yes *scribbes on focus group clipboard* in addition to phase pistols and hull plating we must bring it even closer to TNG...
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Dec 11, 2016 18:04
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Pwnstar posted:In TOS they call it "the Star Fleet" a lot. The Army, The Navy, The Air Force, The Coast Guard
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Dec 11, 2016 18:26
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Pwnstar posted:Who signed off on the character design for Neelix? He's an ugly little rat man with the worst fashion sense in the galaxy, did they want the audience to be constantly repulsed when he was on screen? Hey, it worked last time... 
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Dec 11, 2016 18:50
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It's probably because of the fact that my last arc run of DS9 was ages ago, but why did the Federation keep going through the wormhole once they realized that it pointed into the territory of a dangerous murder faction? The minute you realize you're in someone else's turf and they don't want you there, you say "sorry, I didn't know", you turn around, and you lock the magical door behind you. That way, the Dominion is just a race way out there, you're way out here, and nobody is gonna have an issue with anyone. Oh, and another DS9 question: was the Defiant mandated by the higher ups? I thought the draw of the series was that it was a central location rather than a ship, but half the episodes I remember are "We were tooling around in the Defiant and found this hosed up thing". MisterBibs fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Dec 11, 2016 |
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Dec 11, 2016 19:11
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Questions like that are answered in that Star Trek 50 book. Highly recommend
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Dec 11, 2016 19:16
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MisterBibs posted:It's probably because of the fact that my last arc run of DS9 was ages ago, but why did the Federation keep going through the wormhole once they realized that it pointed into the territory of a dangerous murder faction? The minute you realize you're in someone else's turf and they don't want you there, you say "sorry, I didn't know", you turn around, and you lock the magical door behind you. That way, the Dominion is just a race way out there, you're way out here, and nobody is gonna have an issue with anyone. That it was a central location with no Trekking was one of the complaints too. It is both right and wrong.
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Dec 11, 2016 19:17
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^^ Oh, I know that, and rightfully so. I was just wondering if they were leaned on to make it actual Trek, or if they did it on their own.TheBigAristotle posted:Questions like that are answered in that Star Trek 50 book. Highly recommend I'm about a hundred pages into the first Star Trek 50 book, which is why I asked now so I don't have to wait until way later. 
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Dec 11, 2016 19:20
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Powered Descent posted:Hey, it worked last time... I can't really put a finger on why, but I think Quark's outfits work in a way that Neelix's don't. Like, he's supposed to be a sleazy slimeball. I'd totally buy that that's something a used starship salesman would wear.
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Dec 11, 2016 19:20
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MisterBibs posted:It's probably because of the fact that my last arc run of DS9 was ages ago, but why did the Federation keep going through the wormhole once they realized that it pointed into the territory of a dangerous murder faction? The minute you realize you're in someone else's turf and they don't want you there, you say "sorry, I didn't know", you turn around, and you lock the magical door behind you. That way, the Dominion is just a race way out there, you're way out here, and nobody is gonna have an issue with anyone. The wormhole only led somewhat near Dominion space. Sisko and company only ran across the Dominion after exploring the Gamma Quadrant for, what, a couple of years?
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Dec 11, 2016 19:29
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Fister Roboto posted:I can't really put a finger on why, but I think Quark's outfits work in a way that Neelix's don't. Most of Quark's outfits are either dark or one or two solid colors. Neelix wears a lot of pale and multicolor pastel poo poo, so you really notice how hideous they are. Plus, the Ferengi design is more...cohesive? Neelix looks like someone crammed three separate alien appliances onto one actor and then painted giant scans on his temples.
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Dec 11, 2016 19:59
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MisterBibs posted:It's probably because of the fact that my last arc run of DS9 was ages ago, but why did the Federation keep going through the wormhole once they realized that it pointed into the territory of a dangerous murder faction? The minute you realize you're in someone else's turf and they don't want you there, you say "sorry, I didn't know", you turn around, and you lock the magical door behind you. That way, the Dominion is just a race way out there, you're way out here, and nobody is gonna have an issue with anyone. It wouldn't have mattered. A big trait of the changelings are that they're super paranoid and prone to "preemptive defense" because they think that anyone who isn't genetically engineered to be their worshipful slaves will try to attack them eventually. As long as the wormhole existed and was functional, the Dominion would have been a problem the Federation couldn't just avoid.
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Dec 11, 2016 20:29
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MisterBibs posted:^^ Oh, I know that, and rightfully so. I was just wondering if they were leaned on to make it actual Trek, or if they did it on their own. Fortunately, they were both positive additions.
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Dec 11, 2016 20:40
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Powered Descent posted:Hey, it worked last time... That outfit looks way too drat warm to shoot in.
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Dec 11, 2016 20:48
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VanSandman posted:The Tal Shiar and Obsidian Order should've just blown up the wormhole instead of some half-assed attempt to kill the Dominion. Hell, after they hosed up the Federation should've blown up the wormhole. I can't remember which episode or what happened, but they do something to the wormhole on accident that makes it impossible to blow up.
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Dec 11, 2016 21:21
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WhiteHowler posted:The Defiant and Worf's transfer to DS9 were both studio requirements when TNG ended. The showrunners didn't have any say in it. Worf was, but it sounds like the showrunners came up with the Defiant and had to get it approved. IRA STEVEN BEHR posted:
RICK BERMAN posted:
IRA STEVEN BEHR posted:
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Dec 11, 2016 21:50
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Lowen SoDium posted:I can't remember which episode or what happened, but they do something to the wormhole on accident that makes it impossible to blow up. By Inferno's Light, I believe, because it was the fake Bashir that sabotaged the attempt to close the wormhole
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Dec 11, 2016 21:55
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