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Welp, I gave a game a shot, oblivious to the whole "Patch 7.00 goes live tomorrow" thing. Decided to be Shadow Shaman because why not. People started quitting the game either when Mid was getting their poo poo pushed in or when Bloodseeker and Omniknight got fed off creeps enough, I can't tell. Only died six times but yeah. Did get an assist with my Riki on a Terrorblade though, through Shackles and Zap.
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Dec 12, 2016 05:27
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Kild posted:I think that opinion is mostly shared by the people who only watch TI or Majors or whatever. And I'm not sure wholesale copying a game that came out dead (HOTS) is a smart idea. While I resemble this remark, I think it's a funny thing to say because Majors and TI are basically three different week long tournaments (qualifiers week, group stage week, main event week) wrapped into one. I don't watch late night SEA tournaments or the more regional format of DreamLeague except in highlight reels and it doesn't feel like I'm missing poo poo-tons of Dota insight. I get what you're grasping at, though: Dota is going after people who will play it as one video game in a lifestyle of video games; whereas before you had to essentially have no other video game but Dota to simply be slightly above average. Edit: People are talking about Heroes like mad because of the talent trees but I think Overwatch, a game people enjoy playing periodically and can grasp without being totally married to it, is likewise driving some decisions. Dota is going to tell my team to stop picking a whole group of fragile carries for once; which is similar to that "too many snipers you idiot" dialog. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 05:37 on Dec 12, 2016 |
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Dec 12, 2016 05:29
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Desperate Character posted:so is iron talon still worth building now or is it useless? its no different early game
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Dec 12, 2016 05:47
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The game feels so low risk early now. Like I've played a few matches and every single one we had every player above 400 xpm, even a 0-7 solo support lion. Between bounty runes, shrines, normal runes, it feels literally impossible to lose early/mid game hard enough to make a difference. Which really sucks because a huge part of this games balance was teams having a weakness to a certain phase of the game and being able to exploit that. Now it's like your poo poo lane can just feed off of bounties and shrines where in the past they would be getting harassed out of lane. If they don't nerf the number of rune spawns or the shrine heal I feel like we will go back to 6.83 levels of lategame where it doesn't matter how you play early, you're cores will all come online no matter what so you better pick the lastest game poo poo you can.
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Dec 12, 2016 05:48
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causticBeet posted:The game feels so low risk early now. Like I've played a few matches and every single one we had every player above 400 xpm, even a 0-7 solo support lion. Between bounty runes, shrines, normal runes, it feels literally impossible to lose early/mid game hard enough to make a difference. Which really sucks because a huge part of this games balance was teams having a weakness to a certain phase of the game and being able to exploit that. Now it's like your poo poo lane can just feed off of bounties and shrines where in the past they would be getting harassed out of lane. but this is 'more fun'
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Dec 12, 2016 05:51
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visage spam gonna be a thing only held back by micro woo that hero is dumb. grats aui
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Dec 12, 2016 05:52
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The shrines are really the worst. The fact that teams now have a tp and heal location relatively central to the map that can't be killed until all t2 towers are dead (!!!!!!!) is insane. How to make this patch not bitchmade: - reduce shrines to one per side - shrines vulnerable as soon as their corresponding t1 tower is dead - 1 bounty rune spawn per side per spawn Like talents are pretty cool, most of the hero and item changes seem fun and interesting, the new jungle layout and neutral rules seem whatever, but shrines and the new bounty rune spots seem like cancer and I can't imagine that they will exist in their current state for long. causticBeet fucked around with this message at 06:02 on Dec 12, 2016 |
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Dec 12, 2016 05:57
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Thread, the saddest thing in the world is a Sven bot promising his Helm of Iron Will and Morbid Mask that they will still be a Helm of the Dominator some day. And that they'll cleave heroes once it is assembled. Between the map and some of the item changes, some of the bots are totally messed up. Good thing Valve farmed that out to the community!
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Dec 12, 2016 06:00
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bounty runes were a mistake in the first place
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Dec 12, 2016 06:01
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I mean it's up to personal opinion if 7.00 is good or not (I'm not a fan) but the new HUD covering/leaving out so much is awful.
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Dec 12, 2016 06:05
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Desperate Character posted:so is iron talon still worth building now or is it useless? still has its active so its still good other news: the life steal gained from alchemist and maybe other peoples talent trees is not a unique attack modifier and stacks with desolator
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Dec 12, 2016 06:08
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Desperate Character posted:so is iron talon still worth building now or is it useless? just killed a big huge fat monkey king by cutting down his tree with my talon, totally worth it
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Dec 12, 2016 06:14
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I finally went through all the patch notes. Necro is interesting in that he basically can turn into an AoE Wisp. I don't even know what to make of techies now, which is probably a good thing since he was in a bad spot previously. If she gets some farm priority at all (she won't) BKB/Aghs CM is going to super strong late game. It feels like a lot of the new Aghs is punishing grouped up teams stuff. Omni repel not being dispellable feels like it will suck to play against certain lineups. I'm surprised Miranda was untouched, she still feels really strong. Thanks for reading my lovely random thoughts.
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Dec 12, 2016 06:14
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GOOD TIMES ON METH posted:I finally went through all the patch notes. Necro is interesting in that he basically can turn into an AoE Wisp. I don't even know what to make of techies now, which is probably a good thing since he was in a bad spot previously. From watching Bulldog goof with it, Techies seems to be semi-hosed in that while his starting mines can no longer be quelled, they also can't be stacked on top of each other to do enough damage to kill anyone who isn't near-death already in one blast. Only his remote mines remain very dangerous and they have a duration and a greater mana cost. His leaping attack does more damage to him than it does many opponents (thus making it more useful as an escape skill BEFORE you take large damage) although the talent buff to it evens it out a little more. He is in his niche, a successful sub-2K war story to deter against all-melee drafts.
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Dec 12, 2016 06:36
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I guess someone could at least make a 6.88 map custom mode that cool people only can play. It will be like CS1.6 all over again.
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Dec 12, 2016 06:44
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Dec 12, 2016 06:45
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you know, its pretty funny how both league and dota players have come to lament their ability to solo carry a game as time goes on. everything slowly marches towards the great "5 men hugging each other under mid turret" singularity. old dota died for me a long time ago however so i don't really care.
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Dec 12, 2016 06:55
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does the rosh pit in the middle of the river look as awkward ingame as it does on the map, because goddamn that feels like an eyesore
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Dec 12, 2016 06:56
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ElNarez posted:does the rosh pit in the middle of the river look as awkward ingame as it does on the map, because goddamn that feels like an eyesore Yes. They need to blend the surrounding scenery into it more, because right now it looks like a cut and paste job.
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Dec 12, 2016 06:57
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people crying about necro's 'nerf' because they removed the buyback blocking - it was a neat idea but they could never afford to have him be really viable while leaving that intact. If you remember the few times when he did start to become popular, there were tons of games where 'well, we have this game in the bag, unless spectre gets scythed, then we lose'. Without the buyback blocking, they're free to buff or change him in other directions without worrying that they're making a potentially game breaking hero viable. imo, anyway rest of my opinion: slark and skywrath aghs are funny. nature's guise makes me think icefrog should stop consulting peter dager. Monkey king seems silly, I want to see him in more ~normal games~ (i.e. with skill brackets and stuff from live servers) before I can say anything. he def seems fun though I think most of the changes are overall for the better. Most talents are just more or less tweaks that don't seem much different than +2 to stats, but otoh I'm wondering if losing the stats is going to hurt some other heroes that maybe relied on the +2 to round out a mana pool or something, idk. The level 25 ones often seem pretty absurd but then, that's level 25. I'm eyeballing a few of them like puck just straight up getting +300 gpm seems... pretty good? But there's so many talents that it's going to take a bit to recognize the truly absurd ones (the +40 damage to necrolyte at level 10 feels like it is a pretty sizable damage increase at that level maybe? Not that he's ever going to be a right clicker but...) Bit concerned by the shape of the jungle and camps. Someone mentioned lack of pulling or stacking, or, and I haven't tried it out yet, if the jungle can still support someone like Enigma tearing through it or if he's going to have wander the length of the map more, or what. Also I'm going to have to play with obs wards because it seems REALLY hard to get decent vision in some areas of the map (the Radiant Bot T1 jungle area is just super gnarly and there's like maybe one remotely acceptable ward spot that gives any vision). Overall, the vision game looks really weird in many corners of the map and I'm wondering what the shrines mean for ganking and roaming. I'm not smart enough to understand what the amount of gold on the map, the bounty runes, the talent changes, are going to do to the overall shape of the game, and I'm not sure anyone is either, but I'd expect to see some interesting numbers because this seems like it is hugely different and nobody just has enough perspective to measure it yet. I may be wrong about this, it just is a feeling I get when I look at the end scoreboard and see myself with like 450 gpm on a 'standard' length game where I was 0-8 and didn't even farm creeps (im blaming my hotkeys) as slardar. The map shape changes and the economy stuff are most concerning to me, everything else seems p. good. I'm curious what the apparent lack of pulling and stuff is going to do because that feels like a huge resource/tool for both offlaners and supports got yanked out and I dunno what replaces it. I haven't had any rosh fights because most of my games have been stomps or people just fighting because new patch etc. Wondering how that new pit uh... actually works for engagements edit:  hypothetically you can get like what, 54 eidolons out at the same time with a refresher? lol
Ambivalent fucked around with this message at 07:48 on Dec 12, 2016 |
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Dec 12, 2016 07:46
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enigma shows how many more friends you can get if you work out and get super buff
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Dec 12, 2016 07:57
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JollyPubJerk posted:visage spam gonna be a thing only held back by micro woo that hero is dumb. grats aui Lil is going to wank himself into a coma
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Dec 12, 2016 07:59
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Next hero is gonna be Arcane Spirit Top right of the second panel is purple, all the other spirits correspond to a rune, Arcane is the only missing one.
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Dec 12, 2016 08:14
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Watching streams from the test client, and the new load-in sequence is Street Fighter as gently caress.
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Dec 12, 2016 08:21
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Ovo posted:Next hero is gonna be Arcane Spirit or it could be invisible spirit because you didn't count the runes well
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Dec 12, 2016 08:22
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bounty spirit, gambler lives on
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Dec 12, 2016 08:38
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I don't really play much anymore anyways but I think it's really unfortunate that they feel like they have to make such drastic changes to a game that has existed for so long.
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Dec 12, 2016 08:38
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I hear Talentless IceFrog has released another big patch for his dead game Dota 2! Adding a monkey king, no new ideas! Sad!
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Dec 12, 2016 08:48
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i have to say though, divorced from everything else it's funny to see people complaining that dota, a team game, is now emphasizing playing as a team more than some individual person dragging everyone else along behind them
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Dec 12, 2016 08:50
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Johnny Joestar posted:i have to say though, divorced from everything else it's funny to see people complaining that dota, a team game, is now emphasizing playing as a team more than some individual person dragging everyone else along behind them It's not really that funny when you consider how boring 5-man fuckfests are. I miss the days of Dendi winning mid because he outplayed his opponent, not because Cr1t stod in front of him with ogre loving magi.
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Dec 12, 2016 08:51
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The veno plague ward talent at level 25 seems like the most OP talent in the whole lot. 3x damage and HP? Good luck pushing into highground with 8 of those motherfuckers up with like 1k hp each. I guess actually getting veno to level 25 is a bit of a challenge in most games. Even when he is core, he slows down late game. Seriously though, 3 times? Why are the numbers on a lot of these so ridiculous sounding? For example, Enigma gets EIGHT eidolons, but NP only gets 6 treants which are way less useful at level 25?
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Dec 12, 2016 10:14
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Johnny Joestar posted:i have to say though, divorced from everything else it's funny to see people complaining that dota, a team game, is now emphasizing playing as a team more than some individual person dragging everyone else along behind them Especially when it's already been very possible to shut down carries since the advent of Abyssal + Heavens Halberd You're still going to hardcore carry in scrub games, and you're still going to get chain hexed trying to 1v5 good players, relax, its doto
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Dec 12, 2016 11:13
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BabyRyoga posted:The veno plague ward talent at level 25 seems like the most OP talent in the whole lot. 3x damage and HP? Good luck pushing into highground with 8 of those motherfuckers up with like 1k hp each. I guess actually getting veno to level 25 is a bit of a challenge in most games. Even when he is core, he slows down late game. Seriously though, 3 times? It's +8 Eidolons, so actually 11 eidolons a cast, and 22 eidolons when they all split. But at level 25 that means you're basically feeding buyback to anyone who has attacks or spells that hit more than one target.
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Dec 12, 2016 11:55
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Wezlar posted:I don't really play much anymore anyways but I think it's really unfortunate that they feel like they have to make such drastic changes to a game that has existed for so long. That's part of what's so amazing about DotA. Even when it's making Valve millions, icefrog continues to be unafraid to drastically change things in the pursuit of a better game.
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Dec 12, 2016 11:58
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Here's a hot take: in a couple of weeks we'll all find these changes pretty normal and struggle to remember dota without them
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Dec 12, 2016 12:17
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e dunno why that doubleposted, oh well, here is a dog
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Dec 12, 2016 12:17
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Monkey King can cast his ult from a tree top.
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Dec 12, 2016 12:24
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When patch I cannot wait to start screwing up games with Carry Lich.
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Dec 12, 2016 12:29
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Ambivalent posted:It's +8 Eidolons, so actually 11 eidolons a cast, and 22 eidolons when they all split. Yeah, i'm aware. Even with the risk in mind, comparing something like potentially 22 eidolons to 11 treants seems laughable. Going down the talents list as a whole, it just seems like there were multiple people rather than just one IceFrog deciding the metrics for these talents with no benchmarks in place for equalization, and they never collaborated or checked each other's decisions at all, resulting in a mess of inconsistency. The way the usefulness of certain things is weighted on certain heroes is mind boggling. WD has -35s Respawn Time as a level 15 talent, many other heroes have it at level 20 or even 25. TA has only -30 as a level 25 talent for some reason, like that hero specifically benefits more than any other hero in the game from respawning quickly, and must be accordingly punished. Both of Tusk's level 20 talents are way worse than any of the 4 talents at 10 and 15. Disruptor gets 30% magic resist at level 25, but Kunkka gets 25%, and Troll gets 20%. Tusk gets 10% at level 20. This is all in a game where in the past there has been extremely minimal balancing as far as the weighting of shared parameters and effects go from hero to hero. And then there are ones that just blow: WK's 0 mana reincarnation cost at level 25 NP's +6 trees Tinker's +100 Laser Damage Tide's -5 gush armor (why would you ever take this over a huge CD reduction?) Both of Gyro's level 25ers are among the worst in the game, and he was already a hero in a poor spot who didn't get much of a buff. Yeah, it's just the first itteration of the new version and the numbers will be tweaked, but there shouldn't be such a ridiculous imbalance and inconsistency in a lot of these just right from the start. edit: actually, I might have misread the way Gyro's missile one works. If he can cast multiple missiles at once, that might be interesting. BabyRyoga fucked around with this message at 12:49 on Dec 12, 2016 |
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Dec 12, 2016 12:46
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Meanwhile, Terrorblade gets, what, a ten second Sunder cooldown? Good luck killing him.
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Dec 12, 2016 12:58
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