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Darkrenown posted:New DD: Please give the Ark of the Covenant to the Ethiopian Jews.
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Dec 13, 2016 04:42
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McGavin posted:Please give the Ark of the Covenant to the Ethiopian Jews. Similarly, please give the Zoroastrians and/or appropriate Muslim dynasties the Shamshir-e Zomorrodnegār.
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Dec 13, 2016 04:58
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Man, I was a bit tired of running as the Cetic emperor so I consoled into a norse guy that was invading Yucatan from Cuba. Sieging down everything for an invasion takes time, as y'all know well, so a couple of decades later I finally have the whole drat thing, so I check back on the Emperor. Motherfucker has somehow managed to get a Yudkow heir in line for the throne of Gran Fransisco after marrying its queen and/or vassalizing her, given away all my baronies but replaced them with holy war counties and the kingdom of Deseret is wholly conquered by my kinsmen. And a single tribal county in the middle of the goddamn native plains. So now if I wanted to, I could liberate huge swathes of them incredibly easily with a combination of my merc band and the Hawaiian guard. It's one of the most stunning shows of AI competence I've seen for ages. Like, it was like my ghost was still guiding it even as I played the other guy or maybe even doing better than I would have. This game sometimes...
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Dec 13, 2016 06:23
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Is the combat system really as huge as mess as it seems? Basically I try to grab commanders with useful traits, make sure I have a numerical advantage, and try to engage in a mountain across a river or the like. The whole battle/tactics system is incredibly opaque. Would spending the time to screw around with it rather than just always autobalancing be tactically useful or is messing with the terrible army interface just going to nudge things very slightly in my direction? Any mods that improve significantly on it? Wars are a real pain when the combat system is such a mess. Unrelated question, is there any situation in which succession descends down the female line in an agnatic primogeniture dynasty? Can I wind up liege of some Muslim/pagan territories if I marry off a daughter to them and then systematically kill all the eligible male heirs? Or are daughters in that case just useful for cementing alliances or planting high intrigue friendlies in an enemy court for easier assassination? Talky posted:IIRC all Demonspawn children do, in fact, actively try to murder their siblings, parents, and anyone else standing between them and inheriting titles ASAP Does the whole demon child/voice of satan have any ending? I've got a werewolf demon spawn emperor kicking around in his 70s, and ever since the three witches showing up(and being cured of the black death by Satan) all I've gotten are the occasional events that give me sins or turn me gay. The Insect Court fucked around with this message at 06:27 on Dec 13, 2016 |
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Dec 13, 2016 06:24
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Crusader Kings II: occasional events that give me sins or turn me gay
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Dec 13, 2016 06:30
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The Insect Court posted:
Hundreds of hours later all I can really add is pikemen are probably the best retinue overall and that you should press the button that makes sure you're ruler doesn't go to war himself because almost invariably he'll get wrecked and leave you in a bad spot. Unless you're just raiding because viking is a cool trait.
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Dec 13, 2016 06:31
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No, combat is something that I think only Groogy is happy with because he was part of the people that made it. I mean, I've grown used to it, but for all its supposed 'complexities' it feels that most of the time the rule is bigger -> better combined with better troops -> poo poo troops Also, if someone wants to create complete clusterfucks of a world like me, I'm going to see how deeply I can layer merchant republics using Britain; where the emperor level title is a merchant republic but all the kings are feudal BUT all the coastal dukes under those kings are also merchant republics. Curious if it will work. Well, something for tomorrow I suppose.
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Dec 13, 2016 06:44
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Having, like, 20+ martial commanders helps too.
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Dec 13, 2016 07:05
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Heres my england right now for people wondering
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Dec 13, 2016 07:49
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Having, like, 20+ martial commanders helps too. Another example of the tired paradox trope of higher numbers being better
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Dec 13, 2016 13:51
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kingcom posted:Heres my england right now for people wondering There's something sexual about Italy's set up.
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Dec 13, 2016 13:55
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Is that Italian Byzantium?
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Dec 13, 2016 15:20
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kingcom posted:Heres my england right now for people wondering hell yeah Carpathia
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Dec 13, 2016 15:30
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The Insect Court posted:Is the combat system really as huge as mess as it seems? Basically I try to grab commanders with useful traits, make sure I have a numerical advantage, and try to engage in a mountain across a river or the like. The whole battle/tactics system is incredibly opaque. Would spending the time to screw around with it rather than just always autobalancing be tactically useful or is messing with the terrible army interface just going to nudge things very slightly in my direction? Any mods that improve significantly on it? Wars are a real pain when the combat system is such a mess. I found this guide a month back that explains the combat system in depth. http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=786633975 However, for all its explanation it doesn't matter because it's all random and it's basically down to whoever has the bigger stack. Combat in EUIV is more where this poo poo matters. I've heard tales of 2K troops on a mountain repelling ten times their number...
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Dec 13, 2016 15:32
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Dark_Swordmaster posted:I found this guide a month back that explains the combat system in depth. eu4 doesn't gently caress around with mountains
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Dec 13, 2016 15:34
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Dark_Swordmaster posted:However, for all its explanation it doesn't matter because it's all random and it's basically down to whoever has the bigger stack. Combat in EUIV is more where this poo poo matters. I've heard tales of 2K troops on a mountain repelling ten times their number... It's really not. Just in the previous session of our streamed game Norman heavy infantry is stomping 1.5 to 2 times the numbers of Muslim light infantry/cav.
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Dec 13, 2016 17:01
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I don't know if LI not bothering to exist outside of sieges is really the gotcha I would be bragging about.
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Dec 13, 2016 17:05
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It's neither a gotcha or bragging, it's a simple fact and I'm not sure what point you're trying to make 
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Dec 13, 2016 17:58
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I think the point is that light infantry are so bad that even with a 2-1 advantage you'll lose with them. Realistically, you need a 3-1 to have a good chance of winning with them, and a 4-1 to guarantee a win.
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Dec 13, 2016 18:06
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Combat composition is a non system. If you don't have Legacy of Rome, there aren't any composition knobs to turn and it turns into a ratio and dice game, with the ratios shifting slightly if you end up with an imbalance in tech or go up against some of the places that do have strange compositions like nomads. If you do have Legacy of Rome there are clear trap choices in LI focused retinues and clear winners like defense or certain cultural retinues combined with their cultural building. Leader traits are at least slightly complicated and can have different answers to questions and can make terrain somewhat worthwhile but the size of someof the tactic bonuses you can score with retinue shenanigans make them kind of in the background still.
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Dec 13, 2016 18:08
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To be clear, I don't like having trap retinues and I'm not keen on how tactics work, I was just saying it's wrong to say the larger stack always wins. If I had my way I'd fold retinues to the base game, try to ensure special retinues were always worth using, and make tactics more like the HoI system.
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Dec 13, 2016 18:16
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It's not always the case but that's between two very differing unit qualities. My 2K viking stack routinely gets beat by any feudal armies no matter the size. But the combat is so hands-off and dice roll-y that the only real tactic beyond min/maxing is blobbing. Mind you, I don't WANT more hands-on combat, but all its nuance and depth are fairly obscured and intangible. I like the current system because it's pretty easy to understand all you need to.
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Dec 13, 2016 18:27
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Darkrenown posted:To be clear, I don't like having trap retinues and I'm not keen on how tactics work, I was just saying it's wrong to say the larger stack always wins. If I had my way I'd fold retinues to the base game, try to ensure special retinues were always worth using, and make tactics more like the HoI system.
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Dec 13, 2016 18:44
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This is a screenshot from a few expansions ago but sometimes you can have a hell of a battle if conditions are right: (The reason I won this one was that I was defending on a strait crossing, and the 65k troops weren't all one army but rather a bunch of smaller armies that kept rolling in just as the previous group had broken or was about to break)
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Dec 13, 2016 20:40
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Edison was a dick posted:Is that Italian Byzantium? Yep, theres been 5 or so failed crusades where the jihads have just rolled over half the continent and finally the last one somehow flipped absolutely everything on the map back to Italian control. Byzantine has been farming out its bloodlines to virtually everyone on the map so I'm not surprised their claims are just all over the loving place. It's chopped off but Italy also controls a bunch of north africa.
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Dec 13, 2016 23:11
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Here's a quick guide to combat as far as I understand it. I trust you goons will correct me if I'm wrong about any of this or missing something huge. RETINUES: If your cultural retinue is anything besides Light Infantry or Archers, use that. Otherwise, use the Defense retinue (200 pikemen, 50 archers). Pikemen are the best of the standard troop types for retinues. BUILDINGS: Prioritize buildings that just give an across-the-board percentage increase to levies (Keeps, if you're feudal), then buildings that provide useful troops (Barracks for Heavy Infantry, Stables for Cavalry). This could be disputed, as some prefer to build things that provide lovely troops but more of them, since factions and neighbors just look at raw numbers when deciding to declare war. Personally I prefer to go ahead and let goddamn factions declare war and then crush them with my numerically inferior but mostly not lovely LI/Archers troops. But you have less margin for error this way. TECHNOLOGY: I prioritize Military Organization, Heavy Infantry, Cavalry, Siege Equipment, Shipbuilding, Light Infantry, in that order. If you're in a place where you expect to frequently need to move troops by sea then you'll want to prioritize Shipbuilding more. COMMANDERS * Never enter battle yourself. Just don't. You'll get crippled and suffer through a 14 year regency before you finally die. If you have a useful non-battle trait like Organizer, Siege Leader, Winter Soldier, then feel free to lead your army yourself in the relevant circumstances--just SWITCH YOURSELF OUT OF COMMANDING AND DISABLE YOURSELF FROM LEADING ARMIES before entering battle! It's vital to remember that simply not having yourself actively commanding is NOT enough--you have to turn the little button above your guy's portrait red so he's forbidden to be with the army at all, or, once again, he will get bonked on the goddamn head. * ALWAYS have an Organizer as a commander if at all humanly possible. I don't care what culture he is or what you have to pay or do to get him, just loving get him. It is INCREDIBLY useful to be able to move your army faster than the other guy can move his. By all means switch the Organizer out for a better commander the instant before the battle begins, but before then let the Organizer lead (he has to be leading the center, not a flank, to provide the benefit). The Administrator trait also provides a smaller benefit to movement speed, but is very rare. * Try your damnedest to have a Siege Leader handy too. They significantly lower siege times. Once again they can be switched out before a battle begins, and once again they have to be leading the center to provide their benefit. Likewise the Architect (I think?) trait lowers siege times, but less so, and is rare. * Otherwise, the main thing is just make sure your commanders have at least 10 Martial (this is pretty much mandatory), 20+ is better still but a lot harder to get, and is not Craven or Arbitrary. Brave, Zealous, Cruel all add small benefits (note that Brave also incurs a MUCH higher chance of getting injured or killed in battle, though). Traits aren't really a huge deal though (except Craven, avoid it), the Martial score is more important. * The various commander traits DO have significant effects, so it's good to arrange your commanders to take advantage of them! TACTICS * MICROMANAGE. The interface allows you to swap commanders in and out instantly, which gives you a ton of flexibility if you don't mind the fact it's incredibly gamey. By all means if you have access to someone with the Organizer trait but only 5 Martial, use him while your army is moving and switch him out (preferably for an Inspiring Leader, Aggressive/Defensive Leader, or terrain-relevant leader) 1 day before battle is joined! Likewise, you can switch between Aggressive or Defensive leaders depending whether you're attacking or defending, or leaders with relevant terrain traits. * It's better to defend than to attack (obviously). This is another way Organizers are hugely valuable--you can divide your army to entice the AI to attack one half thinking the other can't get there in time to help, but with an Organizer, it can. On many terrains (especially check the province info for rivers, only major rivers are visible on the map but there are many minor rivers that also provide a huge defense bonus) you can rout an enemy more than twice your size your size if you can entice it to attack you. * Pay attention to the troop composition of enemy armies! Bog standard levies include a lot of easily murdered Light Infantry and Archers, whereas some mercenaries and especially holy orders are much heavier on serious troops. You can crush a 5000 man peasant revolt (which is almost entirely Light Infantry) with 2000 good troops, but if you're up against the Mongol hordes or the Knights Hospitaller than you'd drat well better hugely outnumber them and defend strong terrain or they will kill you to death. That's honestly way more  than CK2 combat justifies. Use high-Martial commanders with commander traits, remember that Light Infantry and Archers pad your troop count but are useless in battle, and have more dudes, and you'll be fine. (Organizers really really kick rear end though.)
Eric the Mauve fucked around with this message at 01:47 on Dec 14, 2016 |
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Dec 14, 2016 01:40
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Eric the Mauve posted:* Never enter battle yourself. Just don't. You'll get crippled and suffer through a 14 year regency before you finally die. If you have a useful non-battle trait like Organizer, Siege Leader, Winter Soldier, then feel free to lead your army yourself in the relevant circumstances--just SWITCH YOURSELF OUT OF COMMANDING AND DISABLE YOURSELF FROM LEADING ARMIES before entering battle! It's vital to remember that simply not having yourself actively commanding is NOT enough--you have to turn the little button above your guy's portrait red so he's forbidden to be with the army at all, or, once again, he will get bonked on the goddamn head. One exception is if you are playing a Viking, since there are some pretty sweet traits they have that you can only get from taking part in battles.
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Dec 14, 2016 01:43
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Eric the Mauve posted:BUILDINGS: Prioritize buildings that just give a flat increase to levies (Keeps, if you're feudal), then buildings that provide useful troops (Barracks for Heavy Infantry, Stables for Cavalry). This could be disputed, as some prefer to build things that provide lovely troops but more of them, since factions and neighbors just look at raw numbers when deciding to declare war. Personally I prefer to go ahead and let goddamn factions declare war and then crush them with my numerically inferior but mostly not lovely LI/Archers troops. But you have less margin for error this way. You mean percentage, right? Keeps don't add a flat value. The Cheshire Cat posted:One exception is if you are playing a Viking, since there are some pretty sweet traits they have that you can only get from taking part in battles. I take my leader to war as soon as I have an heir and a spare, I don't give any fucks. Then again most of my leaders are martial trained so they're pretty good at surviving.
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Dec 14, 2016 01:45
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I meant flat in the sense that it applies the same percentage bonus to all troop types across the board. I'll update to clarify! e: Even if I have a good heir I've had enough bad experiences with long regencies to just never let my own character get into a battle, unless I'm doing a pure roleplaying run.
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Dec 14, 2016 01:46
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:You mean percentage, right? Keeps don't add a flat value. If the first thing you do isn't get into a good war with your 16 year old self in order to get a badass nickname then you are playing this game incorrectly
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Dec 14, 2016 02:06
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The Murphy's Law of geniuses version of vikings is that anyone leading raids who gets Viking will die of scurvy before they get Ravager or Sea King.
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Dec 14, 2016 02:08
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Eric the Mauve posted:* Otherwise, the main thing is just make sure your commanders have at least 10 Martial (this is pretty much mandatory), 20+ is better still but a lot harder to get, and is not Craven or Arbitrary. Brave, Zealous, Cruel all add small benefits (note that Brave also incurs a MUCH higher chance of getting injured or killed in battle, though). Traits aren't really a huge deal though (except Craven, avoid it), the Martial score is more important. Just a note that the breakpoints for tactic selection are at 8/12/16 martial skill for the most part and I don't think there's a difference beyond 16. But yeah, everything you said about Organizers is spot on. Being able to chase down or escape enemy stacks and choose where to engage is so, so important.
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Dec 14, 2016 02:18
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Eric the Mauve posted:BUILDINGS: Prioritize buildings that just give an across-the-board percentage increase to levies (Keeps, if you're feudal), then buildings that provide useful troops (Barracks for Heavy Infantry, Stables for Cavalry). The percentage buildings don't do much until you have some troops for them to boost. When you have a levy of 300 dudes, a 100 gold Barracks 1 will give +45 guys (and then additional percentage boosts from martial on top) while a 200 gold Keep 1 will give 15 guys (+5% boost). It also builds a lot faster, so you get the extra guys even faster. Once your levies are in the 1-1.5k range from a given castle, then yes the +% bonus from a keep is going to be more than the flat increase from a barracks. But until then, you're much better off going with a Barracks 1+2 (and maybe 3?) before you do a Keep 1.
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Dec 14, 2016 02:30
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Also thats another question but how all in should you go to having your own retinue versus just making sure you have lots of highly upgraded buildings?
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Dec 14, 2016 02:38
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kingcom posted:Also thats another question but how all in should you go to having your own retinue versus just making sure you have lots of highly upgraded buildings? Always go all in on retinue.
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Dec 14, 2016 02:51
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Retinues are the best armies money can buy because they stack the deck for tactics but money can be tight for counts, dukes and emergent kings. Established kings and especially emperors and merchant republics can put together a retinue that can take on anything that isn't an event super army. As far as min maxing goes, if you can't put together a retinue that can take all comers with minimum casualties, its often better to sign on some mercs in addition to riding your vassal levies hard and putting them up wet because of the lesser impact to perceived realm levy preventing war and rebellion dominos. If they aren't super soldiers yet retinues get expensive to reinforce and even the normal campaign hemorrhaging of troops can leave your demesne levies hurting.
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Dec 14, 2016 02:51
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Woah I've never really paid attention to commander traits before. I just look for the high martial number. Why is craven and arbitrary bad for commanders? Are there any mods that make combat and wars quicker and more decisive? I just want one big battle and that's it. I hate running around squashing the little armies that the AI raises over and over. It totally kills the mood for me. It would be cool if the AI just raised levies once when the war started and that was it. My viking game is going really well, I'm kicking rear end as the king of York. But I just realised that I can only really increase crown authority and change succession laws if I reform my pagan religion, which isn't gonna happen any time soon because the other holy sites are all over in Scandinavia. So I guess I gotta convert to Catholicism after all, which sucks because I've spent the last few generations crushing bishops and planting pagans everywhere. Is there anything I can do to speed up province culture conversion other than have good stewardship stats? Is it just the ruler stat that matters or leader + steward? I've had some pretty good steward rulers but literally only one province has converted in ~150 years.
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Dec 14, 2016 03:09
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I have walked into the Great Unknown and I am unhappy
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Dec 14, 2016 03:17
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fuf posted:Woah I've never really paid attention to commander traits before. I just look for the high martial number. Why is craven and arbitrary bad for commanders? Craven and Arbitrary will make the character hesitate to choose good tactics, I believe. For quicker and more decisive battles I guess you'd turn off shattered retreat? I think you'd have to start a new game for that. I don't know if you can keep raiding if you're Catholic, but you definitely can if you're Muslim, so maybe think about popping over the Iberia or something and picking up a concubine. As for culture conversion, here's the CK2 Wiki article on it. It seems like it's just ruler stewardship. You could also try loving with trying to control epidemics to depopulate the province which will increase culture spread. If you can, try having your steward settle? I've never really played tribals, so I don't know if there's limits on that or what.
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Dec 14, 2016 03:22
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Top Hats Monthly posted:I have walked into the Great Unknown and I am unhappy At least the prose is masterful.
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Dec 14, 2016 03:30
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