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Tippis
Mar 21, 2008

It's yet another day in the wasteland.

nopantsjack posted:

I was browsing the RSI forums for fun and they had some thread about how much they'd each spent and how they don't tell their family or whatever, anyway one dude came in saying he regretted spending any money because the game doesn't exist, everyone jumped on him and said he should just get a refund.
Kind of makes you think. With 500,000 or so backers, will SC be big enough to show up in the 2017/18 divorce and suicide statistics in any significant way?

quote:

Its still CIG policy to not give refunds and those guys are deluded morons, right?
Depends. They've said that definitely can't get them for later purchases, implying that you can for earlier ones, but in practice, they can't really decide that unilaterally without various laws and banking policies overriding it all, especially since they haven't actually delivered their product yet.

Saint Drogo posted:

Pfft it just wasn't Radiant(tm) enough last time.

That's the funny thing. Bethesda has actually spent a decade and a half on trying to make that kind of thing work, and even when it does what it should, the behaviour this creates is a standing point of ribbing and derision in every game they release.

And yet, somehow, Chris and his band of merry graphical artists — none of which have any experience in doing anything remotely related — are supposed to invent something vastly better in a fraction of the time? How do the faithful ever make that leap of logic work?

Tippis fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Dec 14, 2016

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tuo
Jun 17, 2016

Tippis posted:

And yet, somehow, Chris and his band of merry graphical artists — none of which have any experience in doing anything remotely related — are supposed to invent something vastly better in a fraction of the time? How do the faithful ever make that leap of logic work?

But it's Chris Robberts, coding all night! Does Bethesda have a Chris Roberts? No.

Fat Shat Sings
Jan 24, 2016
MoMA the backer barometer is doing a good job of laying out the "Missing the forest for the Trees" type argument true believers have been using. It's actually a really enlightening example on why so many people are so invested in the project.

It isn't even about the project. The fake demos aren't being considered. Chris Robert's past isn't being considered. The time isn't being considered, any one of a hundred red flags do not exist when you encapsulate and segregate each argument down into it's simplest form.

So MoMA (and most backers) true belief rests on "2.6 THIS YEAR" and "2.6 THIS FRIDAY" and "MULTI CREW SHIP SIX MONTHS" and "STAR MARINE EXISTS" type arguments completely divorced from the bigger picture. Each specific point can be argued until the end of the universe if you are a big enough shitlord so you are never wrong. Even if you are 100% obviously wrong and it cracks your delusion and you start to doubt, it's still a completely meaningless tree in a forest of idiot rear end in a top hat decisions. So what if 2.6 doesn't come out this year if you've compartmentalized it into a .00005% portion while pretending 99.99995% of the situation doesn't even exist.

Sure MoMA is surrounded by piles of lumber from 273 different destroyed arguments, but hey look, another tree right there! People are hitting it with axes? Hey another tree! This one is full of termites? Hey another Tree! This forest will last forever!

tuo
Jun 17, 2016

Imagine Crobberts trying (and failing) the whole night to install current graphics drivers, and Sandi actually thinking he is coding...lol

A Neurotic Corncob
Nov 12, 2016

A light wind swept over the corn, and all nature laughed in the sunshine.
did CIG put a Star Citizen trailer before screenings of Rogue One?

I'm basing this primarily on this somewhat cryptic thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/5ibu1d/i_just_saw_rogue_one_and_i_need_this_game_more/

and also an INN podcast from many months ago where they said we would see the beginning of an advertising blitz for SQ42 starting in December. People speculated at the time that it might be a Rogue One trailer.

If so, wow, must have cost a pretty penny.

Tippis
Mar 21, 2008

It's yet another day in the wasteland.

tuo posted:

Imagine Crobberts trying (and failing) the whole night to install current graphics drivers, and Sandi actually thinking he is coding...lol

Look, he's just trying to find his DB-25 parallel port to plug in his joystick dongle and make the joystick.sys driver load — no need to be mean to the poor guy, even if he's completely stumped on the first step.

SelenicMartian
Sep 14, 2013

Sometimes it's not the bomb that's retarded.

Tippis posted:

That's the funny thing. Bethesda has actually spent a decade and a half on trying to make _________work, and even when it does what it should, this creates is a standing point of ribbing and derision in every game they release.
Bethesda should have stuck to making Terminator games.

a cyberpunk goose
May 21, 2007

Tippis posted:

That's the funny thing. Bethesda has actually spent a decade and a half on trying to make that kind of thing work, and even when it does what it should, the behaviour this creates is a standing point of ribbing and derision in every game they release.

And yet, somehow, Chris and his band of merry graphical artists — none of which have any experience in doing anything remotely related — are supposed to invent something vastly better in a fraction of the time? How do the faithful ever make that leap of logic work?

while this point might work against me in the context of CiG, i have to say it: big businesses that are shipping profitable products (bethesda games) are rarely going to take the time to fix-up fundamental issues in their engines unless they really really _really_ have to, by the time you barely ship & patch & maintain the game you're working on right this second, plans and concept work are already happening for the next project, the game programmers don't all go into a big room and start putting stickies on the wall for things they wanna clean up tech-debt wise and get "ready" for the next project. the next project is already on the rails and the minute they are done with their current project they are yanked off and are prototyping elements of what's to come.

the time to get certain kinds of axiomatic engine-bound things right is usually the first time, anything else will be written off as a waste of money and time by the money wizards above you. a healthy company tries to balance tech debt against product deadlines, but rarely can core engine things just "be fixed". like, oh you want to change how the sorting works for this kind of scene? well that's impossible because the way the realtime lighting is set up for this scene means you'd have to use an entirely different scheme for how such and such is calculated and now you also have to update all the gizmos and level editing tools that work with said lights. or we could say "hey our engine isn't meant for this kind of scene that requires this kind of sorting, let's just hide the issues with it by doing $HACK and get this thing shipped"

this doesn't help paint CiG in a good light though because it's not their engine and CryTek is falling apart and CryEngine is already a crufty mess of very specific hacks to make Crysis-like games work. NOT big mega space mmos with no specific scope.

a cyberpunk goose fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Dec 14, 2016

tuo
Jun 17, 2016

Tippis posted:

Look, he's just trying to find his DB-25 parallel port to plug in his joystick dongle and make the joystick.sys driver load — no need to be mean to the poor guy, even if he's completely stumped on the first step.

He's still googling where to find the config.sys in Windows 10

Crob: "Cortana, where's the config.sys"?
Cortana: "Sorry, I don't understand that question."
Crob: "STOP TALKING LIKE MY LEAD DEVELOPERS!!!"

tuo fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Dec 14, 2016

Mirificus
Oct 29, 2004

Kings need not raise their voices to be heard

Propagandist
Oct 23, 2007


Holy poo poo. I understand that reference. God drat that takes me back.

ZenMaster
Jan 24, 2006

I Saved PC Gaming


the no kids crew is really missing out... train them right and they are really loyal companions and probably won't even poop on the floor much

ZenMaster
Jan 24, 2006

I Saved PC Gaming

Propagandist posted:

Holy poo poo. I understand that reference. God drat that takes me back.

come on man, the Stand is not THAT long a- :stare:

HycoCam
Jul 14, 2016

You should have backed Transverse!

A Neurotic Corncob posted:

did CIG put a Star Citizen trailer before screenings of Rogue One?

I'm basing this primarily on this somewhat cryptic thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/5ibu1d/i_just_saw_rogue_one_and_i_need_this_game_more/

and also an INN podcast from many months ago where they said we would see the beginning of an advertising blitz for SQ42 starting in December. People speculated at the time that it might be a Rogue One trailer.

If so, wow, must have cost a pretty penny.
I'm going with CIG archered a ship from Rogue One....

Mirificus
Oct 29, 2004

Kings need not raise their voices to be heard

Xaerael
Aug 25, 2010

Marching Powder is objectively the worst poster known. He also needs to learn how a keyboard works.

tuo posted:

He's still googling where to find the config.sys in Windows 10

Crob: "Arrrrrrrmmm errrrrrrr Cortana, wheeeerrrre's the uhhhhhh config aaaarrrrmmmmm sys? My... My... the... aaahhhhhhhhh is.. is Dennis here, Cortana?"
Cortana: "You seem to be speaking mushmouth, switching language profile..."
Crob: "STOP TALKING LIKE MY LEAD DEVELOPERS!!!"

ftfy

Fat Shat Sings
Jan 24, 2016

I love the "CIG Patchnote" style of list making.

I was going to make a 30 bullet point list about brushing my teeth this morning but I don't even want to be this dumb sarcastically.

Mirificus
Oct 29, 2004

Kings need not raise their voices to be heard

Thronde
Aug 4, 2012

Fun Shoe
Hello Commandos.

My cat probably has FID. Which sucks. Someone crowdfund a cure for this poo poo, because gently caress losing my buddy.

WebDO
Sep 25, 2009


Eldragon posted:

Yes, and I'm going to patiently wait and see if :pgi: completely fucks it up.

I don't understand, do you know what the word 'if' means? Because that's certainly not the word for which you were looking here

Beer4TheBeerGod
Aug 23, 2004
Exciting Lemon
Looks like I'm getting it all back.

Propagandist
Oct 23, 2007

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

Looks like I'm getting it all back.

Grats on the refund, commando!

Beet Wagon
Oct 19, 2015





Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

Looks like I'm getting it all back.

gently caress yeah that's awesome. Glad you didn't have to fight for it, even if I am a little disappointed that I don't get to watch you fight for it.

peter gabriel
Nov 8, 2011

Hello Commandos
Is it literally just me left then?

Daztek
Jun 2, 2006



peter gabriel posted:

Is it literally just me left then?

I'll be your wingman, pgabz

Wrecked Angle
May 12, 2012

"JURASSIC PARK!"

peter gabriel posted:

Is it literally just me left then?

Don't worry, I'm buying in once 2.6 hits live this friday. Then you'll have both me and Saraspillar as wingmen.

Samizdata
May 14, 2007

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

Looks like I'm getting it all back.

Rock on. Time to make the proper propitiation to your deity then?

TheLightPurges
Sep 24, 2016

by exmarx

peter gabriel posted:

Is it literally just me left then?

Ive got 5 dollars of skin in the game friend I'm riding this all the way down.

Samizdata
May 14, 2007
And I hate to toot my own horn, but I can't leave this stuff unarchived.



S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-SELF-OWNED! FATALITY!

Samizdata fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Dec 14, 2016

aleksendr
May 14, 2014

peter gabriel posted:

Is it literally just me left then?

Still have my 45 $ Aurora, pre SQ 42 split. Not logging in since 2.1 because those giant patches take half of my metered internet for the month.

Sum Mors
Feb 21, 2008

TheLightPurges posted:

Ive got 5 dollars of skin in the game friend I'm riding this all the way down.

Which is really like $20 developer dollars if you think about it.

Tijuana Bibliophile
Dec 30, 2008

Scratchmo

Tippis posted:

Look, he's just trying to find his DB-25 parallel port to plug in his joystick dongle and make the joystick.sys driver load — no need to be mean to the poor guy, even if he's completely stumped on the first step.

xanif
Nov 3, 2010

Beer: Who was your first kill, not counting old men?
Eonwe: One of the outlaws in the Brotherhood.
Seraph84: I was there that day. You were only a squire, sixteen years old.
Eonwe: You killed Friendly Tumour with a counter-post. Best move I ever saw.
Oven Wrangler

shrach posted:

So RSI UK filed their accounts today. There isn't much to see, for reasons that will become immediately apparent, but they confirm the money moves around needlessly. I made a flow chart in MS paint for 2015 of the information so far.



The Star Citizen funding chart apparently showed $36m in 2015 with $3.3m of that coming in January, leaving $33m for February to December. Using an exchange rate of £1 : $1.55 for 2015 would put a total value of ~ £21m for February to December 2015 for the Star Citizen funding chart. That is clearly a material difference to the £15m that was shown in the accounts of Roberts Space Industries International Ltd.

When the UK parent company files their accounts there should be some more information on inter-company relationships.

Been gone a while. has anyone done this yet?

Tijuana Bibliophile
Dec 30, 2008

Scratchmo

a cyberpunk goose posted:

while this point might work against me in the context of CiG, i have to say it: big businesses that are shipping profitable products (bethesda games) are rarely going to take the time to fix-up fundamental issues in their engines unless they really really _really_ have to, by the time you barely ship & patch & maintain the game you're working on right this second, plans and concept work are already happening for the next project, the game programmers don't all go into a big room and start putting stickies on the wall for things they wanna clean up tech-debt wise and get "ready" for the next project. the next project is already on the rails and the minute they are done with their current project they are yanked off and are prototyping elements of what's to come.

the time to get certain kinds of axiomatic engine-bound things right is usually the first time, anything else will be written off as a waste of money and time by the money wizards above you. a healthy company tries to balance tech debt against product deadlines, but rarely can core engine things just "be fixed". like, oh you want to change how the sorting works for this kind of scene? well that's impossible because the way the realtime lighting is set up for this scene means you'd have to use an entirely different scheme for how such and such is calculated and now you also have to update all the gizmos and level editing tools that work with said lights. or we could say "hey our engine isn't meant for this kind of scene that requires this kind of sorting, let's just hide the issues with it by doing $HACK and get this thing shipped"

this doesn't help paint CiG in a good light though because it's not their engine and CryTek is falling apart and CryEngine is already a crufty mess of very specific hacks to make Crysis-like games work. NOT big mega space mmos with no specific scope.

You make some good points there sir, but I still think making 100,000 polygon vehicles is the logical first step in MMO development

TheLightPurges
Sep 24, 2016

by exmarx
All the great MMOs started figuring out their networking poo poo 4-5 years in. Pretty typical game development.

D_Smart
May 11, 2010

by FactsAreUseless
College Slice
https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/809099349628227584

ArfJason
Sep 5, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 5 days!

ArfJason
Sep 5, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 5 days!
i think its pretty badass how calling out people for being obsessive internet stalkers resulted in someone digging out real life pictures of me.

Tarquinn
Jul 3, 2007

I know I’ve made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you
my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal.
Hell Gem

Xarbala posted:

Somebody please give ArfJason his incredibly disturbing old av back

Why, what's the difference? The current one is incredibly disturbing too.

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Tijuana Bibliophile
Dec 30, 2008

Scratchmo

ArfJason posted:

i think its pretty badass how calling out people for being obsessive internet stalkers resulted in someone digging out real life pictures of me.

Stop whining about the dumb av you bought for yourself nobody cares

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