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Smiling Knight posted:Dwarves need that though. If they couldn't win every shooting battle, they'd get picked apart every time. I'd expect the welf ability to move and shoot to be a great boon, if you can manoeuvre your archers around the side the dwarf response can only be turn xbow and expose the sides and back to fire. On paper as a line fight I'd expect them to suck.
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Dec 14, 2016 16:22
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Gejnor posted:I spent something like 150-200 hours before the first major DLC came out so.... yes? Infact, base game is even better now with all the FLC they've tacked on as well. If the price of the race specific packs is turning you off, the Regiment of Renown packs are pure aces and quite a bit cheaper. If you buy anything first, get those two. Beastmen/Elves pack can be picked up if the game sticks to you and you want more options while looking past the price. Skip Warriors of Chaos for now unless CA does some serious revamps to how their campaign plays. It's real bad.
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Dec 14, 2016 16:30
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Can wood elf units only walk and shoot rather than March and shoot? I only double time them around and don't seem to see them shoot on the run
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Dec 14, 2016 16:37
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They can run and shoot. I use them to pursue fleeing enemies after a battle, they're really good at wiping out enemy infantry running for the hills.
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Dec 14, 2016 16:54
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terrorist ambulance posted:Can wood elf units only walk and shoot rather than March and shoot? I only double time them around and don't seem to see them shoot on the run They can definitely run and shoot, but remember that that basic archers (Glade Guard) don't have a 360 degree fire arc. So they can fire while moving forward or sideways, but not while running away
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Dec 14, 2016 16:54
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This is a good game. I havnt won it yet but that is because the late game grind is boring. Will prob win with welvs this time around! Then as very hard dwarves possibly. Going to do a very hard ork game once they make grimgor actually fun to play as. (the new LLs are so much better!)
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Dec 14, 2016 17:06
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Wood Elf archers could use some multiplayer adjustments, but they definetly should not beat Quarrellers in a pure 1v1 given their mobility and armor piercing options. And, thematically, this isn't standard fantasy. Wood Elves are master archers, but that doesn't mean as much in a world with cannon, guns, and steam powered tanks. They are the guerrilla faction and guerrillas shouldn't be getting into gun line battles with high tech armored mass crossbows.
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Dec 14, 2016 17:07
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Oh man. I thought I hated welfs this whole time but just realized I hated the mini-campaign and didn't give a poo poo about Orion. Playing the GC as Durthu now and it's finally clicking. I just can't get into a faction unless their LL is hype.
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Dec 14, 2016 17:21
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Deified Data posted:Oh man. I thought I hated welfs this whole time but just realized I hated the mini-campaign and didn't give a poo poo about Orion. Playing the GC as Durthu now and it's finally clicking. I just can't get into a faction unless their LL is hype. That's why I'm loving Beastmen now: Morghur is amazing.
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Dec 14, 2016 17:57
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Just downloaded a new patch.quote:Wood Elves Hotfix Now Live
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Dec 14, 2016 18:15
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I'm disappointed they didn't add forest provinces in previously impassible terrain. 
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Dec 14, 2016 18:24
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The computer is definitely better at running WEs than I am, holy poo poo they don't beat me but I don't come away from fighting them unscathed that's for loving sure. These buffs are gonna blow to play against.
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Dec 14, 2016 18:42
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The range increase is silly and changes the playstyle dramatically.
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Dec 14, 2016 18:42
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fnordcircle posted:The computer is definitely better at running WEs than I am, holy poo poo they don't beat me but I don't come away from fighting them unscathed that's for loving sure. For real, the battles end up being brutal on both sides.
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Dec 14, 2016 18:45
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I really think the shooting from forest thing is an issue and they basically just gave a big "gently caress you" to everyone who brought it up. In my battles against Beastmen, even with their low armor, archers shooting undisturbed from the forest routinely get 30+ fewer kills than those out of the forest. It's not an even trade by any stretch of the imagination.
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Dec 14, 2016 18:48
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numptyboy posted:I'd expect the welf ability to move and shoot to be a great boon, if you can manoeuvre your archers around the side the dwarf response can only be turn xbow and expose the sides and back to fire. On paper as a line fight I'd expect them to suck. Once they get one of the campaign speed boosts, their archers can literally circle strafe Quarrelers to death without losses. Going crazy with micro in hopeless outpost garrison battles is fun and let's you appreciate how good some elf units are. I even like the Eagle now. It's an amazing disrupter and weird pseudo flying tank, just don't expect it to kill anything by itself
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Dec 14, 2016 18:57
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Fresh Shesh Besh posted:I really think the shooting from forest thing is an issue and they basically just gave a big "gently caress you" to everyone who brought it up. You shouldn't really consider the idea of that bonus to be 'you use forests as damage amplifier pads'. They clearly wanted you to position archers outside of forests at least sometimes, and have the buffs be a situational benefit - e.g. if you want to take on opposing archers, or making use of trees' maluses against large units. Fangz fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Dec 14, 2016 |
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Dec 14, 2016 19:03
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DeathSandwich posted:Skip Warriors of Chaos for now unless CA does some serious revamps to how their campaign plays. It's real bad. I was planning on picking up all the DLC if they go on sale, so are there any other ones that are bad?
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Dec 14, 2016 19:06
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Fresh Shesh Besh posted:I really think the shooting from forest thing is an issue and they basically just gave a big "gently caress you" to everyone who brought it up. But do they take equally fewer hits against them if targeted by opposing missile troops at the same time? I don't really follow the logic that their archers should be just as deadly in cover as out. They get buffs that make using it more desirable, but of course a unit shooting in clear space is going to do more damage over the course of a battle.
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Dec 14, 2016 19:06
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Raygereio posted:Why is it bad? Chaos is okay but they play counter-intuitively. They work best as almost a sort of speedrun campaign, where you go hard and fast for the mission objectives, never minding how many enemies you leave behind yourself. People instead try to empire-build in the north, or try to slowly grind away at razing every city and keeping them razed, or interpret the attrition mechanic as 'never put your armies together', which makes the entire situation quite tedious. All the DLC is pretty good. I mean still Chaos is probably the most unnecessary one, but I don't think it's bad.
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Dec 14, 2016 19:09
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I haven't used the Rangers yet but all the other changes feel like the kind of thing an army fanboy makes when they want to stop feeling threatened by the game.
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Dec 14, 2016 19:12
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sassassin posted:But do they take equally fewer hits against them if targeted by opposing missile troops at the same time? Seems to me like a lot less arrows get blocked shooting into the forest, so you're at a disadvantage. How do i know if the archers are getting the forest buff anyway? I put them on the forest edge so the trees don't block everything, but i'm not sure where on the edge the forest terrain stops. Party In My Diapee fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Dec 14, 2016 |
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Dec 14, 2016 19:21
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Raygereio posted:Why is it bad? No ambush stance or assassin hero makes it hard to chase down fleeing armies. Campaign either devolves into bee lining objectives and running away from everything else, or spending your first 70 turns in an icy shithole chasing horse marauders forever. Faction unit compositions, horde building mechanics, and generally poor to midling performance of faction's monsters favor spamming warriors/chosen/forsaken over basically anything else. The general consensus is "Beastmen did the WoC campaign except better in every way".
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Dec 14, 2016 19:25
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Chaos works as a free pack in for those that bought early but I can't think of any reason to recommend buying them now that we have Beastmen unless you really like their fluff. They have 2 of the best LLs in the game I guess.
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Dec 14, 2016 19:26
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Raygereio posted:Why is it bad? Chaos is fun, but their campaign isn't really like any of the other factions and it's easy to get distracted trying to pacify all the fantasy vikings (which you shouldn't do). Also, Beastmen are a similar play style and they're a bit more polished, probably more popular too. I still prefer Chaos to Beastmen, I've probably played Chaos campaigns the most, and it's the only one I've beaten on Legendary, but I'd suggest you pick up one or the other and see if you even like horde gameplay before buying both. Jamwad Hilder fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Dec 14, 2016 |
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Dec 14, 2016 19:28
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This game has the most pants-on-head retarded patching system I've ever seen. 28.9 GB free on the drive it's on is apparently "not enough disk space" for a 120MB patch. Christ.
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Dec 14, 2016 19:29
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Raygereio posted:Why is it bad? It's a boring loving slog to play as WoC where instead of being a cool unstoppable horde of metal Viking gods you play keepaway from all the scary enemies who might wipe out your lovely stack at any moment. It's worse because Beastmen exist, where CA clearly learned all the right lessons and made them awesome fun to play and then there's Chaos, looking worse and worse every time something new comes out. The rest of the DLC are quality and I'd heartily recommend all of them.
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Dec 14, 2016 19:33
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Zephro posted:This game has the most pants-on-head retarded patching system I've ever seen. 28.9 GB free on the drive it's on is apparently "not enough disk space" for a 120MB patch. Christ. From what I understand it creates a copy of the install, then patches that copy. Something like that. I don't know.  Corrode posted:It's a boring loving slog to play as WoC where instead of being a cool unstoppable horde of metal Viking gods you play keepaway from all the scary enemies who might wipe out your lovely stack at any moment. It's worse because Beastmen exist, where CA clearly learned all the right lessons and made them awesome fun to play and then there's Chaos, looking worse and worse every time something new comes out. The worst part about the horde factions is that the AI doesn't have fog of war, and thus knows EXACTLY where you are at all times. Consequently, the second you're vulnerable you're going to have 27 doomstacks marched onto your face. I see this all the time, even as Beastmen where you're supposedly "hidden". Playing Morghur there's ALWAYS at least two Wood Elf stacks marching across the earth to stand within striking distance of me. All the time. Every turn. If one of my hordes leaves the safety of the clump for a split second, suddenly there's 5 stacks on top of it ready to pound it into the dirt. Gonkish fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Dec 14, 2016 |
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Dec 14, 2016 19:34
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Don't get me wrong, Beastmen have their own problems (Balance of Minotaur ancilliaries vs centaurs/boars/non-morghur chaos spawn, no real reason to use heroes outside of an army embed, bestigors are of questionable use as a 3 turn recruitment in an army that constantly needs to be moving and raiding and sacking, ect), but the campaign is still varied to play and fun. Your different LLs start on different corners of the map, you get to say 'gently caress the world' and burn it all down for sport, and full well more than half of your army starts with vanguard deploy so you can comically quickly tie down the enemy forces right at the start of a fight and start the countdown to the Minos hitting the front line for great bloody battle results.
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Dec 14, 2016 19:36
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Gonkish posted:From what I understand it creates a copy of the install, then patches that copy. Something like that. I don't know.
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Dec 14, 2016 19:38
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Sat at 116/121.6 downloaded for the last half hour, this is ridiculous.
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Dec 14, 2016 19:42
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Zephro posted:Yeah, this is exactly what it does. I have no clue why the gently caress it does it this way, it seems like you couldn't design a stupider patching process if you tried. I'm going to have to just remove it from my SSD, I think, but cloning 33 gigs of data, applying a tiny patch, then rewriting the patched clone on top of the original is going to take loving ages on a mechanical drive. It's so moronic. Yeah, this is really annoying, but it's not restricted to this game. I think it's how Steam does things when game files are in big blocks - even Valve's own darlings like Dota 2 do it.
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Dec 14, 2016 19:42
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Zephro posted:Yeah, this is exactly what it does. I have no clue why the gently caress it does it this way, it seems like you couldn't design a stupider patching process if you tried. I'm going to have to just remove it from my SSD, I think, but cloning 33 gigs of data, applying a tiny patch, then rewriting the patched clone on top of the original is going to take loving ages on a mechanical drive. It's so moronic. Joke's on them, I uninstalled Atilla to make space to patch TW:W.
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Dec 14, 2016 19:43
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Oh man, I got attacked by Mousillion while world root pathing, and forced 3 of his armies (consisting of nothing but skeletons and zombies) into a chute of death as my Wardancers basically blendered hundreds of zombies. Against a combined force of about 4,000 enemies, to my 800, I only lost 65 guys 
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Dec 14, 2016 19:46
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Corrode posted:It's a boring loving slog to play as WoC where instead of being a cool unstoppable horde of metal Viking gods you play keepaway from all the scary enemies who might wipe out your lovely stack at any moment. It's worse because Beastmen exist, where CA clearly learned all the right lessons and made them awesome fun to play and then there's Chaos, looking worse and worse every time something new comes out. The hardest part of the Chaos campaign is the first 20ish turns. You need a second horde right away, and you need it to survive while your LL kicks the poo poo out of the stuff in the starting area and the dwarves up there. But if they both make it, by turn 20 or so you should be able to turn south with two reasonably strong hordes and even with cheats the AI isn't going to have enough to threaten them when they can reinforce each other. If you start with Sigvald you can start your move against Kislev/the Empire around turn 10-12 just because homeboy has a cannon
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Dec 14, 2016 19:51
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Jamwad Hilder posted:what difficulty are you playing on? because that hasn't been my experience at all with WE. I pretty consistently have different beastmen factions, brettonians, estalia/tilea, and sometimes crooked moon trying to gently caress around in the forest from the beginning and there are plenty of early fights. if you want, you can declare on the other elves and clan angrund too and have arguably the most variety of enemies to fight in the early game than any other faction. I played on hard. I didn't declare war on the Welfs until I teched up, because creating a stack of the squidgy tier 0s wouldnt be able to beat the stack of (better) units the neighbouring Welfs had + their garrison. I pressed end turn until there was an opening to raze Karak Norn or Crooked Moon, took the money from that and built a stack of 50% treekin 50% archers and dryads, that was enough to stomp the Welfs and begin the snowball. Basically, there are plenty of enemies to fight, but your initial stack is too weak to take on their stack + a garrison behind walls, so either tank your economy with a second stack (of squidgy units that are poo poo at sieging) and one province, or just chill for a while until you tech up and own face.
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Dec 14, 2016 20:34
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Gammymajams posted:I played on hard. I didn't declare war on the Welfs until I teched up, because creating a stack of the squidgy tier 0s wouldnt be able to beat the stack of (better) units the neighbouring Welfs had + their garrison. I pressed end turn until there was an opening to raze Karak Norn or Crooked Moon, took the money from that and built a stack of 50% treekin 50% archers and dryads, that was enough to stomp the Welfs and begin the snowball. Basically, there are plenty of enemies to fight, but your initial stack is too weak to take on their stack + a garrison behind walls, so either tank your economy with a second stack (of squidgy units that are poo poo at sieging) and one province, or just chill for a while until you tech up and own face. you can ambush stance right outside the city and fight the invaders with your tiny stack + garrison troops
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Dec 14, 2016 20:43
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Gammymajams posted:I played on hard. I didn't declare war on the Welfs until I teched up, because creating a stack of the squidgy tier 0s wouldnt be able to beat the stack of (better) units the neighbouring Welfs had + their garrison. I pressed end turn until there was an opening to raze Karak Norn or Crooked Moon, took the money from that and built a stack of 50% treekin 50% archers and dryads, that was enough to stomp the Welfs and begin the snowball. Basically, there are plenty of enemies to fight, but your initial stack is too weak to take on their stack + a garrison behind walls, so either tank your economy with a second stack (of squidgy units that are poo poo at sieging) and one province, or just chill for a while until you tech up and own face. When you declare war on wood elfs just hide your army in ambush stance. They'll come start poo poo with your city, where you spring out, slaughter them to a man, and pick a fight with their garrison the next turn.
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Dec 14, 2016 20:56
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Jamwad Hilder posted:you can ambush stance right outside the city and fight the invaders with your tiny stack + garrison troops This is what I do to catch medium sized enemy stacks. Wood elves also get several bonuses to campaign movement through research and a building and combined with the Lord skill can give you like +25% movement. Great for chasing down weedy beastmen peeing all over the Great Oak.
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Dec 14, 2016 20:58
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Reminder that Chaos still sucks to play as and are just as unfun to fight as well.
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Dec 14, 2016 21:06
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