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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Gotta point out yet again that the comic books figured this out years ago by giving all the guys who could easily change the world for the better but don't membership in the Illuminati. Like, it just floors me that people fawn over this Marvel chaos while nitpicking the same poo poo from Snyder & co. It's just pure tribalism.
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Dec 15, 2016 19:39
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Gotta point out yet again that the comic books figured this out years ago by giving all the guys who could easily change the world for the better but don't membership in the Illuminati. Or in the case of Namor, a guy who could destroy/take over the world.
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Dec 15, 2016 19:41
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I just like that because without even really trying to, they perfectly replicated the way comic book fandom works on people who'd never read a comic in their lives.
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Dec 15, 2016 19:41
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:I just like that because without even really trying to, they perfectly replicated the way comic book fandom works on people who'd never read a comic in their lives. That's such a good point. It dovetails nicely with my own beliefs. People always say "nerds are bad with money" or "nerds are this and that" but they're just people with a few of the knobs tweaked. The tendencies are universal, you know?
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Dec 15, 2016 19:45
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It also goes to show that it's 100% marketing.
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Dec 15, 2016 19:46
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It felt to me like the Illuminati miniseries was attempting to answer a question that never needed to be asked---"why doesn't Reed Richards just take five minutes out of his day and fix Professor Xavier's back?" And I'm always like, why Xavier and not some random paraplegic dude from the local Mission? Does Richards know Xavier in particular that he has some reason to help him? What I mean is, I never had much trouble with nobody in the Marvel Universe ever pools their resources together cuz it's usually been like, all the superheroes/superteams generally operate in isolation apart from the occasional teamup, and in the case of the X-Men/Avengers despite a few shared members they actually didn't even like each other. Like in DC, all the superheroes are basically one club and they all have each others' speed-dial and so on so there is some validity to asking why Superman doesn't put the Joker in space-jail but I always liked that Marvel's superheroes were less organized and more prone to infighting. But then they decided the X-Men and Avengers should be one supergroup and got rid of the Fantastic Four and I dunno what else so it hasn't been that way for a while 
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Dec 15, 2016 19:53
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Do not put the Joker in space jail. He'll escape and come back with space weapons and space henchmen. If you mean the phantom zone, that would be an awesome story. I somehow think Joker would do alright in there.
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Dec 15, 2016 19:58
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McCloud posted:One thing I find interesting is how the importance of the arc reactor is overlooked entirely. A box the size of a fist can produce nigh limitless power! Infinite clean energy is at his fingertips and he uses it to makes weapons! Why is the entire world not running on arc reactors? Offer the world clean limitless energy and you have done nore for world peace than all nobel prize winners combined. And the US army just wants the god drat suit, and don't care about the larger prize. No, Tony gets out of the weapons businesses. All the Iron Man movies are about discovering cheapish, clean energy and the selling it to the world. The main business of Stark Inc. is energy and the marketing of various side technologies that Tony creates while supporting his own one man militia. It appears that this change in strategy is lucrative as gently caress too, because Tony gets more and more outlandishly extravagant as the movies progress. Now he's funding a super hero team, giving billions in grants to MIT students, and casually building and destroying dozens of armor suits on a whim.
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Dec 15, 2016 19:58
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WENTZ WAGON NUI posted:It felt to me like the Illuminati miniseries was attempting to answer a question that never needed to be asked---"why doesn't Reed Richards just take five minutes out of his day and fix Professor Xavier's back?" And I'm always like, why Xavier and not some random paraplegic dude from the local Mission? Does Richards know Xavier in particular that he has some reason to help him? What I mean is, I never had much trouble with nobody in the Marvel Universe ever pools their resources together cuz it's usually been like, all the superheroes/superteams generally operate in isolation apart from the occasional teamup, and in the case of the X-Men/Avengers despite a few shared members they actually didn't even like each other. Like in DC, all the superheroes are basically one club and they all have each others' speed-dial and so on so there is some validity to asking why Superman doesn't put the Joker in space-jail but I always liked that Marvel's superheroes were less organized and more prone to infighting. I'm not talking about a miniseries, I'm talking about the idea in general, which was brilliant. Who gives a poo poo about Paste Pot Pete? All power in the Marvel Universe is in the hands of a few people and I like Millar's idea of making a story about that.
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Dec 15, 2016 20:04
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Gyges posted:No, Tony gets out of the weapons businesses. All the Iron Man movies are about discovering cheapish, clean energy and the selling it to the world. The main business of Stark Inc. is energy and the marketing of various side technologies that Tony creates while supporting his own one man militia. He's not selling weapons, but he sure as gently caress is still making them. A whole army of them, in fact. Just that he's keeping them for himself. If Tony was the humanitarian he pretended to be, he'd sell the reactor cheap or give it away. If he is selling his tech, why aren't we seeing more examples of say, stark cars? No fuel or charging needed, this arc reactor will power it for 20 years! Want to heat your house? gently caress solar, install an arc reactor and you can heat your whole house for years! But we don't see any advances at all, so presumably the arc reactor remains a stark co secret.
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Dec 15, 2016 20:25
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Gotta point out yet again that the comic books figured this out years ago by giving all the guys who could easily change the world for the better but don't membership in the Illuminati. I don't know why writers jump through all those hoops when this explanation makes far more sense:  These super-geniuses are just people. And people are petty, selfish, and short-sighted. e: Also, gotta point out that Snyder's Watchmen is consistently ahead of its time with this kind of stuff, bringing in the subplot of Adrian and Manhattan using the latter's powers to solve the energy crisis and attempt to bring about world peace, then tying that into an ending that was much better than the book's. For the handful of terrible decisions made in the making of that film (casting Malin Akerman, all of Matthew Goode's character choices, fetishizing the fight scenes, Hallelujah, changing the wording and context of "I did it 35 minutes ago") it's becoming more and more clear with each passing mediocre and uninspired superhero film that it's destined to be a classic misunderstood in its time. If it was released today people would worship it. feedmyleg fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Dec 15, 2016 |
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Dec 15, 2016 20:27
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WENTZ WAGON NUI posted:It felt to me like the Illuminati miniseries was attempting to answer a question that never needed to be asked---"why doesn't Reed Richards just take five minutes out of his day and fix Professor Xavier's back?" And I'm always like, why Xavier and not some random paraplegic dude from the local Mission? Does Richards know Xavier in particular that he has some reason to help him? What I mean is, I never had much trouble with nobody in the Marvel Universe ever pools their resources together cuz it's usually been like, all the superheroes/superteams generally operate in isolation apart from the occasional teamup, and in the case of the X-Men/Avengers despite a few shared members they actually didn't even like each other. Like in DC, all the superheroes are basically one club and they all have each others' speed-dial and so on so there is some validity to asking why Superman doesn't put the Joker in space-jail but I always liked that Marvel's superheroes were less organized and more prone to infighting. Yes, why didn't the preposterously stretchy guy so preoccupied with science work he forgets to eat, shower, or interact with his wife take a few minutes out of his day discovering new dimensions to fix the legs of the psycic consort of a space queen? This is where it is reasonable to draw the line of disbelief, not at infinite energy universes within the eyes of a member of a divergent hominid species or the literally world eating denizin from a previous universe which ours replaces who he is firing his eye energy beams at. Plus Marvel has always been big on insisting that everything just started happening like maybe a decade ago, so all the super science hasn't quite had a chance to catch on yet. Also nobody cares that we are as un-alone in the universe as a guy on the subway durring rush hour is alone on the train. But the guy who has at various points actually fixed his non-working legs with science/magic/magic-science currently being confined to a wheel chair, pssh. How unreasonable.
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Dec 15, 2016 21:02
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Xavier did die like 10 years ago, but Mr Fantastic has always been a bit morally grey ever since he started building interdimensional super hero prisons and evil Thor clones, and so even back in the day I think Xavier would have gotten some untrustworthy vibes from scanning his brain. Richards probably would have implanted a neural dampener failsafe or tracking chip or something while Xavier was under. I can think of two other reasons: 1. Xavier seems to pass out so often using his powers maybe being in a constant seating position is safer in the long run, he is at less risk of falling and cracking his skull on the pavement. 2. Psychic powers seem to be inversely proportional to physical capabilities, the strong psychics are always children and the infirm, the strongest are those with no physical bodies at all (shadow kings, Cassandra novas, etc). Maybe having a little sensory deprivation gives him an edge.
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Dec 15, 2016 22:02
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The real reason is that people laugh if he says he's using transistors to walk now, and Xavier just can't take the ridicule. Edit: All the falling down probably doesn't help either 
Gyges fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Dec 15, 2016 |
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Dec 15, 2016 22:05
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McCloud posted:If he is selling his tech, why aren't we seeing more examples of say, stark cars? No fuel or charging needed, this arc reactor will power it for 20 years! Want to heat your house? gently caress solar, install an arc reactor and you can heat your whole house for years! Every car and building in Avengers 2 is powered by Stark Reactors actually. They're just tiny.
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Dec 15, 2016 22:10
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They could make a nice chunk of change just by dropping a little tidbit about how Tony and Elon Musk are in a partnership and have everyone drive Teslas.
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Dec 15, 2016 22:24
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feedmyleg posted:If it was released today people would worship it. No they wouldn't, it was directed by Snyder so it would immediately become an io9 meme. Gyges posted:They could make a nice chunk of change just by dropping a little tidbit about how Tony and Elon Musk are in a partnership and have everyone drive Teslas. I'm honestly surprise that Disney and Musk haven't tried to make some arrangement to put him in a movie and him to make Stark Cars or whatever based on how much nerds love both brands.
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Dec 15, 2016 22:59
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Chairman Capone posted:No they wouldn't, it was directed by Snyder so it would immediately become an io9 meme. You mean like in Iron Man 2, complete with a Merlin engine plug (The SpaceX Falcon rocket engine) ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcOVHoi1p40&t=90s
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Dec 15, 2016 23:07
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evilbastard posted:You mean like in Iron Man 2, complete with a Merlin engine plug (The SpaceX Falcon rocket engine) ? Welp, now I feel dumb! Though I do like that for what a big name he is, he seems to only get asked to appear in poo poo movies.
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Dec 15, 2016 23:20
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McCloud posted:He's not selling weapons, but he sure as gently caress is still making them. A whole army of them, in fact. Just that he's keeping them for himself. Didn't he use arc power to light his building as a proof of concept? Anyway its a problem (like so many) shared by comic books. Hopefully they'll do a better job of showing things progressing in the civilian side, rather than just the military (helicarriers, algorithim of doom, etc). It's a problem that crops up in any action/fantasy setting with overpowered characters. Like, why don't Jedi teach everybody jedi powers? Why can't you use Force lightning to power buildings? Why doesn't Blade (a largely unkillable ur warrior) take down a dictator or two or something? The brain reels.
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Dec 15, 2016 23:20
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Chairman Capone posted:Welp, now I feel dumb!
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Dec 15, 2016 23:20
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Shageletic posted:It's a problem that crops up in any action/fantasy setting with overpowered characters. Like, why don't Jedi teach everybody jedi powers? Why can't you use Force lightning to power buildings? Why doesn't Blade (a largely unkillable ur warrior) take down a dictator or two or something? The brain reels. 1) You have to be strong in the Force 2) Maybe you can but it takes effort and a connection to the selfish Dark Side to channel Force Lightning so you can't do it in perpetuity and also the Dark Side precludes you from helping others 3) Blade would kill those dictators if they were vampires
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Dec 15, 2016 23:29
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Shageletic posted:It's a problem that crops up in any action/fantasy setting with overpowered characters. Like, why don't Jedi teach everybody jedi powers? Why can't you use Force lightning to power buildings? Why doesn't Blade (a largely unkillable ur warrior) take down a dictator or two or something? The brain reels. Blade is busy killing vampires. Blade prioritizes killing vampires over politics because vampires are a threat to all mankind.
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Dec 15, 2016 23:33
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Guy Goodbody posted:Blade is busy killing vampires. Blade prioritizes killing vampires over politics because vampires are a threat to all mankind. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c67wwdKPhqM
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Dec 15, 2016 23:52
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It is believable to me that arc power does not scale enough and is not in a position where mass production possible or feasible at this point. It runs on some weapons grade elements at the high end of the table, and some completely made up elements. Then again, Tony Stark built this in a month, AND HE WAS IN A CAVE!
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Dec 15, 2016 23:54
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MrJacobs posted:Seriously, if you have any sentience whatsoever and you commit your entire species into an invasion force, you deserve to be wiped out due to your sheer stupidity. Tony Stark is a hero. Would it really be a moral high ground if it were only a significant chunk of their species?
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Dec 15, 2016 23:54
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Snowman_McK posted:Would it really be a moral high ground if it were only a significant chunk of their species? Stand Your Ground!
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Dec 16, 2016 01:23
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Snowman_McK posted:Would it really be a moral high ground if it were only a significant chunk of their species? Like, war is not morale but killing the other sides army is the point.
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Dec 16, 2016 01:27
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Snowman_McK posted:Would it really be a moral high ground if it were only a significant chunk of their species? Yes, nuking an invading alien species who is indiscriminately killing you after you have done absolutely nothing to them does not affect the height of either your ground or your horse.
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Dec 16, 2016 01:59
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Detonating a nuclear weapon in space does violate a lot of treaties, though. I mean, launching a nuke by itself did that too.
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Dec 16, 2016 02:33
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greatn posted:It is believable to me that arc power does not scale enough and is not in a position where mass production possible or feasible at this point. It runs on some weapons grade elements at the high end of the table, and some completely made up elements. He did give SHIELD a lot of his tech, and both Avengers movies talk about how Stark Industries is using arc power as the basis for leading the world in clean, renewable energy - Stark's opening scene in Avengers is hooking up Stark Tower to its own arc reactor taking it completely off the NYC power grid. Not hard to imagine that Stark is working hard on making arc power practical for use on a large scale, this stuff just takes time.
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Dec 16, 2016 02:38
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Cythereal posted:He did give SHIELD a lot of his tech ... and they turned out to be a front for Hydra Cythereal posted:Stark's opening scene in Avengers is hooking up Stark Tower to its own arc reactor taking it completely off the NYC power grid. .... and that was the final part of the puzzle that allowed Loki to summon an invading army from space. There's a recurring message in the MCU films that if you stop hoarding your advanced tech for your personal use and share it with the world then it'll just fall into the hands of evil doers and be used to destroy the world.
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Dec 16, 2016 02:57
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MonsieurChoc posted:Detonating a nuclear weapon in space does violate a lot of treaties, though. I mean, launching a nuke by itself did that too. It's okay when Frank Herbert posted:The Emperor cleared his throat, said: "Perhaps my respected kinsman believes he has things all his own way now. Nothing could be more remote from the fact. You have violated the Convention, used atomics against-" "I used atomics against a natural feature of the desert," Paul said.
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Dec 16, 2016 03:12
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:There's a recurring message in the MCU films that if you stop hoarding your advanced tech for your personal use and share it with the world then it'll just fall into the hands of evil doers and be used to destroy the world. Edit: Not being a weird objectivist, just saying everyone sucks.
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Dec 16, 2016 03:15
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honestly i've never really cared for the 'offscreen tony stark totally helps people with his benevolent clean energy' bit, it's this weird detail that rarely influences the story being told and just comes off like reassuring the audience that tony is totally a cool and good guy and you should have zero moral qualms about him existing as he does it's marvel's 'bruce wayne does tons of charity work between stories so it's okay for him to beat up poor randos' e: actually if i wanted to be really uncharitable i'd compare it to marvel's own 'no one has ever died during a hulk rampage because banner always subconciously maths out a path that will never lead to anyone dying' Brother Entropy fucked around with this message at 03:26 on Dec 16, 2016 |
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Dec 16, 2016 03:23
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Neo Rasa posted:It's okay when Yeah, but those books aren't even subtle about heroes ruining everything.
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Dec 16, 2016 03:29
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A poster in this very thread is white knighting an invasion force of alien drone soldiers because Iron Man killed them with a nuke before they could continue killing hundreds and eventually thousands or millions of innocent civilians. Never mind the fact that Iron Man's diverting of the nuke saved just as many if not more people as well as one the world's greatest cities from destruction. Are we on planet earth right now?
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Dec 16, 2016 03:52
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Neo Rasa posted:It's okay when Man, this is not the time to go with Dune over Nixon. Brother Entropy posted:honestly i've never really cared for the 'offscreen tony stark totally helps people with his benevolent clean energy' bit, it's this weird detail that rarely influences the story being told and just comes off like reassuring the audience that tony is totally a cool and good guy and you should have zero moral qualms about him existing as he does To be fair, he's not being benevolent at all. He's making insane profits off his clean energy and sundry technologies. Let us not forget the true lesson of the Sermon On The Mount. If you end hunger, then whose going to buy these loaves and fishes?
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Dec 16, 2016 04:11
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Gyges posted:To be fair, he's not being benevolent at all. He's making insane profits off his clean energy and sundry technologies. I think Tony would be the kind of guy to ask why it might be a problem that doing something good for the world also makes him rich. It's a win-win situation and does it really matter if someone is acting out of altruistic reasons or not if the end result is good for the world?
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Dec 16, 2016 04:18
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Rough Lobster posted:A poster in this very thread is white knighting an invasion force of alien drone soldiers because Iron Man killed them with a nuke before they could continue killing hundreds and eventually thousands or millions of innocent civilians. Never mind the fact that Iron Man's diverting of the nuke saved just as many if not more people as well as one the world's greatest cities from destruction. Are we on planet earth right now? I agree, Saddam should have nuked the United States.
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Dec 16, 2016 04:45
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