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General Dog posted:Who is the guy in the black robe at Darth Vader's house, is that like his butler? Figured he was a groupie like Sheev has in Jedi
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Dec 19, 2016 04:21
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I felt a keen empathy for Product Manager Krennic. gently caress executives and senior management. gently caress those guys. Let me just show the CEO what I have achieved myself! loving COOs as well man. Just because you give me executive sponsorship it doesn't make it your project! Especially when I did things no one else would have done to make this happen. Christ. Were there issues in the release? Well, maybe internal ones that wouldn't affect the marketing effort. It doesn't make the process null and void.
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Dec 19, 2016 04:27
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Filthy Casual posted:Considering how huge these vessels are, and their insane power requirements, its not surprising exploding the reactor core would cause the entire thing to erupt. I'm hazy on Galen's specific explanation of the fault, but I thought his trick was that hitting the exhaust port just right could carry it down to the center, believably destroying the Death Star. In RotJ they just had to fly through some scaffolding to get there, so no engineering trickery needed. Plus Palpatine's hubris finally catching up to him and all that. As far as I recall he explains the flaw as being the simple fact that a chain reaction is possible in the first place. I don't think it's supposed to have anything to do with the exhaust port, thankfully, because that would have been even more egregious. I can't help but suspect that it originally was the exhaust port, but that it got changed because even the filmmakers realized what a bad idea that would be. As it stands, though, this is exactly the kind of thing that represented the worst excesses of the old EU: the need to over-explain details from the original films in an attempt to make the EU work seem more important, done in a way which actually undermines the original films. Why was it necessary to include this in the movie? What would it have changed? Why couldn't Galen have simply chosen to oversee the Death Star's construction so he could funnel information about it to the Rebels in the hopes that it would aid them, as seemed to be the case anyway until that superfluous addition was revealed?
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Dec 19, 2016 04:27
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Wank posted:I felt a keen empathy for Product Manager Krennic. gently caress executives and senior management. gently caress those guys. Let me just show the CEO what I have achieved myself! loving COOs as well man. Just because you give me executive sponsorship it doesn't make it your project! Especially when I did things no one else would have done to make this happen. Christ. Were there issues in the release? Well, maybe internal ones that wouldn't affect the marketing effort. It doesn't make the process null and void. I'd like to see an edit where they take out the evil things Krennic does so it looks like he's just trying to get proper credit for doing a good job and his bosses keep dicking him over.
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Dec 19, 2016 04:29
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I saw it. I liked it a lot. I had a 'holy poo poo' moment partway through where I realized everyone would have to die for the opening to A New Hope to make any sense, and that really kicked the movie into high gear for me. I feel like there were a lot more character stuff the movie doesn't get credit for. Like Krennic speaking with a more working class accent, being territorial about his control, etc, left a lot unsaid. I appreciated it. The actors really make it work. The movie felt a bit like a Michael Mann movie - character with very plain motivations but subtle character beats giving them texture. I love Mann, so I enjoyed it. The rebellion felt absolutely desparate. I don't know if that's ever been conveyed so well before. Also, how did it take 8 star wars movies for us to get to a scene where a pitch dark room is suddenly illuminated by a lightsaber. Like, it seems so obvious in retrospect.
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Dec 19, 2016 04:39
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Codependent Poster posted:I'd like to see an edit where they take out the evil things Krennic does so it looks like he's just trying to get proper credit for doing a good job and his bosses keep dicking him over. Man, when its crunch time and you have to crash the project to make a deadline you gotta do what you gotta do. Getting poo poo done and moving past the choice is better than sitting around discussing things. A bad decision that keeps the project moving is better than hesitation. I am going to get a Krennic bobblehead to put on my workstation. And gently caress those violent protestors that would try and stop a job creating government initiative. Think of the boost to the economy the Death Star project would have been.
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Dec 19, 2016 04:54
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I really enjoyed Rogue One and hated the prequels and TFA. This was not a Marvel film with buddy cop + 3 dynamics. That's probably its biggest "flaw".
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Dec 19, 2016 04:55
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Another aspect of the OT this movie weirdly undermines for no reason: In A New Hope, Captain Antilles and Leia both declare that they're on a diplomatic mission to Alderaan and that they've intercepted no transmissions. Darth Vader immediately calls bullshit on both of them because he's shrewd and intelligent and isn't easily fooled. It builds him up as a character to be reckoned with, not only physically but also intellectually. It doesn't matter how good your story is, Darth Vader knows when you're lying. But according to Rogue One, Darth Vader actually just watched the Tantive IV flee from a larger combatant ship during a pitched offensive against the Empire, and directly witnessed Alderaanian troopers physically carrying the plans onto the ship. Now the only reason Vader doesn't buy the Rebels' story is because he isn't literally both blind and braindead. Again, there was really no reason at all to do this. I get that people wanted to see Darth Vader gently caress poo poo up Force Unleashed style, but they could have had him do it in a different context.
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Dec 19, 2016 04:57
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Cnut the Great posted:Another aspect of the OT this movie weirdly undermines for no reason: They're both still lying, friend, and it explains Vader's anger at both of them. It's like people forget that you see Leia putting the plans in R2.
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Dec 19, 2016 04:59
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Cnut the Great posted:Another aspect of the OT this movie weirdly undermines for no reason: This was actually my biggest problem with the movie as well. Especially why would Princess Leia (pre-ANH princess Leia) have gone to a war zone? They should have changed it to Vader loving poo poo up to just seeing the plans transmitted to a far away waiting ship as he slaughters the transmission operator - or something like that. I guess it can be explained that Leia has no idea Vader knows the plans are on the ship and she is just trying to bluff out of it. Though "I have traced the rebels spies to her", really Darth, "traced" them to her?
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Dec 19, 2016 05:01
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Milky Moor posted:They're both still lying, friend, and it explains Vader's anger at both of them. Your response has nothing to do with my post. It doesn't matter that they're both still lying, because the implication before was that Vader is shrewdly sniffing out their lie, whereas now with Rogue One the story is that Vader only knows they're lying because he literally saw the plans physically carried onto their ship after they fled from the middle of a space battle. We see Leia put the plans into Artoo, not Darth Vader. And that scene comes after, anyway. Wank posted:They should have changed it to Vader loving poo poo up to just seeing the plans transmitted to a far away waiting ship as he slaughters the transmission operator - or something like that. Exactly, it would have been so easy. And then you could cut to the Tantive IV and have the bit with Leia just like they did. Cnut the Great fucked around with this message at 05:08 on Dec 19, 2016 |
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Dec 19, 2016 05:03
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Cnut the Great posted:Another aspect of the OT this movie weirdly undermines for no reason: Or if you think about it more critically, it enhances the defiance shown by Leia, she is well aware Vader knows she has the plans but still brazenly lies to his face. It shows how brave she is in the face of such evil and adds extra depth to the exchange. I like it
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Dec 19, 2016 05:06
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Milky Moor posted:They're both still lying, friend, and it explains Vader's anger at both of them. Nah he's right, and I was going on about it earlier in the thread. In ANH Vader basically saw crumbs, the lid off the cookie jar and Leia in the room and knew what was up. Her lying was a quasi plausibly deniable attempt Now though, Vader walked in on Leia with a cookie in her mouth and her hand in the jar and in fact saw her walking into the kitchen with his own eyes. It makes her denial absolutely ludicrous
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Dec 19, 2016 05:07
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Watching ANH for the first time in a while and it's amazing how low-key it is at first. You get like ten minutes with the androids wandering around in the desert, and then a really nice scene introducing Luke and his existence. He's such a dorky, squeaky dweeb.
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Dec 19, 2016 05:07
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Cnut the Great posted:Another aspect of the OT this movie weirdly undermines for no reason: You are attributing intelligence to Vadar's action when they have could be motivated by other reasons. This is another form of "ruined childhood" criticisms. Vadar didn't care about the death star plans in ANH anyway. Plans weren't the focus of ANH. It was about capturing the Rebels. Leia was a suspected Rebel sympathizer and the Empire wanted to know where their new base was (which was developed in ESB). edit: And you can handwave that away because Leia's ship wasn't unique so there is no reason for him to target that ship as the one with the plans. Plus we don't know if he caught her immediately after their departure or sometime later, so she could have already send the plans and was chilling before they got caught. Leia's job was to send the message to Obi-Wan. The plans were a part of RO. RO and ANH are different movies so be careful with treating scenes in one film as immediately sequenced with the other. temple fucked around with this message at 05:17 on Dec 19, 2016 |
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Dec 19, 2016 05:08
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Cnut the Great posted:
I didn't think that the Tantive IV was the same corvette that escaped during the battle because of the scene where R2 and 3PO are clearly left behind. I assumed that the plans get transmitted from ship to ship like a hot potato. Also, it would be weird for a senator to have been there at the battle.
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Dec 19, 2016 05:10
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Wank posted:They should have changed it to Vader loving poo poo up to just seeing the plans transmitted to a far away waiting ship as he slaughters the transmission operator - or something like that. Or just have it be, like, a shuttle or something that escapes and the scene plays out identically, only instead of cutting directly to the interior of the tantive IV it has a quick intermediary scene of it dropping out of hyperspace and docking before showing Leia being handed the plans.
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Dec 19, 2016 05:14
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Waffles Inc. posted:It makes her denial absolutely ludicrous Not really. Trying thinking more about it in terms of how the new context changes the possibe interpretations of the characters' actions at the beginning of ANH.
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Dec 19, 2016 05:14
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temple posted:You are attributing intelligence to Vadar's action when they have could be motivated by other reasons. This is another form of "ruined childhood" criticisms. Vadar didn't care about the death star plans in ANH anyway. Plans weren't the focus of ANH. It was about capturing the Rebels. Leia was a suspected Rebel sympathizer and the Empire wanted to know where their new base was (which was developed in ESB). You're being disingenuous. "Commander tear this ship apart until you find those plans..." Vader wants the plans OP Also Bubbacub it's the exact same ship because we see CGI Leia on it at the end. Unless you're suggesting she goes from one blockade runner to another identical one
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Dec 19, 2016 05:16
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small, irrelevant city in tunisia vs. jeddah Looks like I've been stumped!
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Dec 19, 2016 05:19
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Wandle Cax posted:Not really. Trying thinking more about it in terms of how the new context changes the possibe interpretations of the characters' actions at the beginning of ANH. Exactly. If you're caught with your hand inside the cookie jar, lying about what you're doing is patently absurd. She smartly plays Tarkin like a fiddle later with the Dantooine line, so she's clearly savvy--and she's savvy enough to hide the plans in R2. Who was she performing for in the scene with the additional R1 context. Now it reads like the people doing ads in Truman Show
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Dec 19, 2016 05:19
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mr. unhsib posted:Also, how did it take 8 star wars movies for us to get to a scene where a pitch dark room is suddenly illuminated by a lightsaber. Like, it seems so obvious in retrospect. Isn't this done in Cloud City during Empire Strikes Back?
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Dec 19, 2016 05:19
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Waffles Inc. posted:You're being disingenuous.
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Dec 19, 2016 05:22
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Waffles Inc. posted:You're being disingenuous. And you're being deliberately obtuse. Leia has the plans on the ship. Vader knows this. Leia knows Vader knows this. Yet she looks him in the eye and tells an obviously fake story to Darth freaking Vader. This shows the bravery and defiance of Leia, and adds another dimension to the scene.
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Dec 19, 2016 05:22
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Wandle Cax posted:Or if you think about it more critically, it enhances the defiance shown by Leia, she is well aware Vader knows she has the plans but still brazenly lies to his face. It shows how brave she is in the face of such evil and adds extra depth to the exchange. I like it Saying it just enhances her defiance doesn't make any sense, because the logical way that would display itself with Rogue One's added context is that she just wouldn't have said anything. She wouldn't have told him an obviously false lie that she knows Vader couldn't possibly buy in a million years--since he was literally there watching them flee the scene of a battle with the plans--and won't avail her of anything. And what you're basically saying is that the scene is justified because it makes Leia slightly more defiant (but really just makes her look like a dunce), at the cost of making Vader significantly less impressive--when the original scene already had both Leia showing great defiance and Vader retaining his original impressiveness. Like I said before, what was gained here that makes the loss worth it? Nothing, the filmmakers just never considered the implications. temple posted:You are attributed intelligence to Vadar's action when they have could be motivated by other reasons. This is another form of "ruined childhood" criticisms. Vadar didn't care about the death star plans in ANH anyway. Plans weren't the focus of ANH. It was about capturing the Rebels. It's not a "ruined childhood" criticism to point out how Rogue One clumsily undermines crucial aspects of Vader's OT introductory scene for absolutely no benefit. I get that you're trying to oh-so-cleverly turn the tables and get back at some prequel defenders who hurt your feelings in the past, but this is actually a legitimate criticism that I've supported with reasoned arguments and critical analysis. Wandle Cax posted:And you're being deliberately obtuse. Leia has the plans on the ship. Vader knows this. Leia knows Vader knows this. Yet she looks him in the eye and tells an obviously fake story to Darth freaking Vader. This shows the bravery and defiance of Leia, and adds another dimension to the scene. No, at most it questionably enhances (but not really) an already strongly present aspect of the scene at the expense of completely neutering another. I don't know about you but I didn't need any additional help appreciating Leia's defiance in the face of Darth Vader before Rogue One came out. The reason this is different from defenses of the prequels is because there are generally strong, compelling, and clearly well-thought-out reasons for any prequel additions that add context to aspects of the originals--and also because nothing in the prequels actually fundamentally alters anything established or intended by the originals. This is just another example of Rogue One's EU syndrome. Cnut the Great fucked around with this message at 05:32 on Dec 19, 2016 |
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Dec 19, 2016 05:22
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"And he was a good friend."
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Dec 19, 2016 05:25
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RBA Starblade posted:"And he was a good friend." He was a good friend, and the OT itself establishes that the story was more complicated than that.
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Dec 19, 2016 05:27
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Wandle Cax posted:And you're being deliberately obtuse. Leia has the plans on the ship. Vader knows this. Leia knows Vader knows this. Yet she looks him in the eye and tells an obviously fake story to Darth freaking Vader. This shows the bravery and defiance of Leia, and adds another dimension to the scene. Why does Leia know that Vader knows and that he isn't just accusing? Was she aware that Vader was right behind her when her ship detached and made off? Yeah, there could have been an announcement that "oh poo poo Darth loving Vader just showed up to the battle and is watching us take the plans" or it could be just chaos as they received the plans and then hosed off and then suddenly Vader's boarding them and pointing fingers.
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Dec 19, 2016 05:27
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Wandle Cax posted:And you're being deliberately obtuse. Leia has the plans on the ship. Vader knows this. Leia knows Vader knows this. Yet she looks him in the eye and tells an obviously fake story to Darth freaking Vader. This shows the bravery and defiance of Leia, and adds another dimension to the scene. You and I must have radically different notions of bravery and defiance because it makes her come across as a naive idiot now--defiance and bravery were there before and not now with R1 providing additional context It was such an odd choice to have the Tantive be at the final battle, and for what purpose? It's as confusing a choice as most of the rest of the movie
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Dec 19, 2016 05:28
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Soul Glo posted:Why does Leia know that Vader knows and that he isn't just accusing? Was she aware that Vader was right behind her when her ship detached and made off? Yeah, there could have been an announcement that "oh poo poo Darth loving Vader just showed up to the battle and is watching us take the plans" or it could be just chaos as they received the plans and then hosed off and then suddenly Vader's boarding them and pointing fingers. It would seem to strain credulity that the guy who carried the plans onto the ship didn't mention to everybody that Darth Vader was in the hallway watching everything and is probably after them right now. Really, though, none of these rationalizations should even be necessary.
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Dec 19, 2016 05:29
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Soul Glo posted:Why does Leia know that Vader knows and that he isn't just accusing? Was she aware that Vader was right behind her when her ship detached and made off? Yeah, there could have been an announcement that "oh poo poo Darth loving Vader just showed up to the battle and is watching us take the plans" or it could be just chaos as they received the plans and then hosed off and then suddenly Vader's boarding them and pointing fingers. The dude carrying the plans he gives to Leia gets them from a guy who Vader kills. You're telling me he didn't say "punch it fuckin darth goddamned Vader was literally two feet from me" 5 seconds after credits rolled?
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Dec 19, 2016 05:30
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Waffles Inc. posted:Interesting insights here but can I ask what way you feel that warefare "deeply affects and drives" the characters? We don't know why Diego Luna has chosen to fight, and the only reason we hear about the Asian couple fighting is to protect a temple. They decide to join up for essentially no reason. They tag along and then decide to die...why? I too fail to understand why the existence of a planet-busting superweapon would motivate a bunch of people to die in an effort to stop it. Even ignoring any and all other motivations, why is this hard to understand?
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Dec 19, 2016 05:30
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Baronash posted:I too fail to understand why the existence of a planet-busting superweapon would motivate a bunch of people to die in an effort to stop it. Rebellions don't work like this. The US and several countries have planet busting super weapons and only a small fraction of a country we're actively bombing oppose us, and even then those people are driven to join for reasons other than "they're bombing us" I want to know how Jin and Diego Luna were radicalized
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Dec 19, 2016 05:32
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Cnut the Great posted:It would seem to strain credulity that the guy who carried the plans onto the ship didn't mention to everybody that Darth Vader was in the hallway watching everything and is probably after them right now. I thought that was in the bigger ship they detached from and not on hers proper Like, dude grabs the drive from the doomed spaceman in the hallway with Vader, runs down to the dock, hands it over to Leia's crew and can even say "Yo, Vader saw me take this" and then they zip off, while also being in a ship that's a model and not a one of a kind anyway. Waffles Inc. posted:I want to know how Jin and Diego Luna were radicalized The empire killed both of their parents This would seem to make them angry
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Dec 19, 2016 05:33
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Waffles Inc. posted:I want to know how Jin and Diego Luna were radicalized Gosh, if only the movie spent the time to show Jyn's mother killed at the hands of the Empire and point to her upbringing by a confirmed zealot.
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Dec 19, 2016 05:35
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freeranger posted:Isn't this done in Cloud City during Empire Strikes Back? And Attack of the Clones, though that's a case where the lights go out during the duel
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Dec 19, 2016 05:35
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Waffles Inc. posted:The dude carrying the plans he gives to Leia gets them from a guy who Vader kills. You're telling me he didn't say "punch it fuckin darth goddamned Vader was literally two feet from me" 5 seconds after credits rolled? Even without Rogue One, the whole point of the exchange between Vader and Leia is that she is lying and Vader is calling her on her bullshit. She does actually have the plans, Vader knows that, and she knows that Vader knows. She's playing the fool because there is no reason to do anything else.
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Dec 19, 2016 05:37
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Soul Glo posted:I thought that was in the bigger ship they detached from and not on hers proper I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. The action seemed to take place in an airlock corridor between the two ships. One guy manages to escape Vader and get through the door to the Tantive IV with the plans.
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Dec 19, 2016 05:38
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Waffles Inc. posted:You and I must have radically different notions of bravery and defiance because it makes her come across as a naive idiot now--defiance and bravery were there before and not now with R1 providing additional context It's to directly tie it in to the start of ANH which obviously is "pandering fan service" to the more cynical of us and perfectly fine for those who don't mind emotional nostalgic synergy at the expense of the possibility of perceived logical flaws. Just imagine the emotional heights the film would have ended on if the plans were put on some random ship with a bunch of rebel extras. "Oh I guess they were picked up by Leia's ship at some point and presumably Darth Vader caught up somehow" what a triumphant ending that would be for the audience.
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Dec 19, 2016 05:40
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Watching prequel defenders scream "THIS IS NOT HOW THE STAR WARS IS SUPPOSED TO BE" in the aftermath of Rogue One, after smugly telling the people who said that about the prequels that they just didn't like Star Wars... Mmm! Perfecto! 
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Dec 19, 2016 05:46
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