|
I really want that series now though, 12 episodes of turn a if the war never happens and the turn a never wakes up and its just about moon people trying to settle on earth and finding a place for themselves.
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2016 07:49
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 18:17 |
|
|
Sharkopath posted:I really want that series now though, 12 episodes of turn a if the war never happens and the turn a never wakes up and its just about moon people trying to settle on earth and finding a place for themselves. mobile suits are still dug up but it's only unarmed acguys
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2016 08:25
|
|
|
Winnie the pooh and acguy too
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2016 08:47
|
|
|
Droyer posted:Admittedly it's been a while, but the feeling I got from watching the original show was that Deikun was supposed to be a good person, and dictators usurping him being a heightened level of tragedy to the whole thing. Much like a lot of the bad stuff the federation did, his fanaticism is something that was invented later and retconned in. Also Newtypes are explicitly real and explicitly A Good Thing. Original flavor pre-Origin Deikun's political philosophy was "people who live in space are inherently an elevated species" and "the Earth is sacred and everyone should move off Earth and live in space", which are two philosophies that are going to go over with the people who still live on Earth like a lead balloon. He wasn't aggressively violent in his lifetime, but once his philosophy started to catch on and he was made leader of Side 3, his first action was to declare independence and start building a self defense force; who knows where it could have gone from there if he hadn't died? It was trivially easy for the Zabis to extrapolate on his philosophy to seize power and do the stuff that they did.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2016 10:30
|
|
|
Shinjobi posted:I mean, war is bad, but I've always felt like the war message was secondary to Tomino hating old people. The bitterness over Imperial Japan cannot be overstated there. Anyone Tomino's age when Gundam came out couldn't have missed the parallels.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2016 11:15
|
|
Yinlock posted:mobile suits are still dug up but it's only unarmed acguys I want a UC Gundam series set a century later where they are trying to figuire out and it is just a bunch of History students and archaeologists goofing about.
|
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2016 17:19
|
|
|
SeanBeansShako posted:I want a UC Gundam series set a century later where they are trying to figuire out and it is just a bunch of History students and archaeologists goofing about. So... Turn A?
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2016 17:46
|
|
Darth Walrus posted:So... Turn A? A century after Turn A with academic nerds basically reinacting the debates in this thread. And reinacting Gundam battles wearing buckets on their heads.
|
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2016 17:50
|
|
|
Kanos posted:Original flavor pre-Origin Deikun's political philosophy was "people who live in space are inherently an elevated species" and "the Earth is sacred and everyone should move off Earth and live in space", which are two philosophies that are going to go over with the people who still live on Earth like a lead balloon. He wasn't aggressively violent in his lifetime, but once his philosophy started to catch on and he was made leader of Side 3, his first action was to declare independence and start building a self defense force; who knows where it could have gone from there if he hadn't died? It was trivially easy for the Zabis to extrapolate on his philosophy to seize power and do the stuff that they did. The way I've heard it, even disregarding Origin, the Zabi takeover was not peaceful. I've not seen it but apparently there are pictures or something of Zabi forces mowing down protesters. Maybe that is from The Origin though, I have no idea. I just know there is a ton of supplementary material surrounding the original anime that fleshes out things better than said anime ever did. I really hate how MSG's most interesting elements are all before the show even starts I really need to read o watch The Origin since it seems to go over the stuff I really wanted to see. Also it might make me think of Degwin as a bastard, rather than a sad, pitiable old man which is all 0079 ever managed.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2016 17:53
|
|
|
MonsieurChoc posted:The bitterness over Imperial Japan cannot be overstated there. Anyone Tomino's age when Gundam came out couldn't have missed the parallels. He was closer to world war 2 when he made Gundam then we are to Vietnam now. It's easy to forget how much time has passed.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2016 19:43
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:The way I've heard it, even disregarding Origin, the Zabi takeover was not peaceful. I've not seen it but apparently there are pictures or something of Zabi forces mowing down protesters. Maybe that is from The Origin though, I have no idea. I just know there is a ton of supplementary material surrounding the original anime that fleshes out things better than said anime ever did. Don't worry he's still that in Origin. The Origin adds nothing to the political intrigue and background and only really serves to offer up that everything ever is a really weird coincidence by recycling names and places from MSG in a comedic way. You see, we all needed to know the backstory of how Char learned to ride a horse cause of that one scene in CCA. Belzac fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Dec 19, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2016 17:28
|
|
|
Belzac posted:Don't worry he's still that in Origin. The Origin adds nothing to the political intrigue and background and only really serves to offer up that everything ever is a really weird coincidence by recycling names and places from MSG in a comedic way. You see, we all needed to know the backstory of how Char learned to ride a horse cause of that one scene in CCA. I'm not sure which version of The Origin you read but it isn't the one that exists. The entire flashback chapters spend a lot of time on the political situation and development.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2016 17:50
|
|
|
I'm talking about the OVAs which focus on inconsequential and laughable stuff like Texas Colony. The only part of the OVA that focuses on the political aspect was the first one (Blue-eyed Casval) and was also the poorest one in terms of tone, painting Kycilia as a crazed psychopath, adding in a Zabi just die, and making Dozle a weak comic relief character.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2016 18:07
|
|
|
Belzac posted:I'm talking about the OVAs which focus on inconsequential and laughable stuff like Texas Colony. The only part of the OVA that focuses on the political aspect was the first one (Blue-eyed Casval) and was also the poorest one in terms of tone, painting Kycilia as a crazed psychopath, adding in a Zabi just die, and making Dozle a weak comic relief character. The assassination of Sasro Zabi has been a part of the history for way longer than The Origin. Almost everything in The Origin is present at least as far as Tomino's novels for example. (Up to and including Jimba Ral being a poo poo.)
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2016 18:15
|
|
|
Not in terms of animation to my knowledge. I think I remember it in a Ghiren's Greed game but they make no mention of it in any anime, including MSG where Ral just mentions he's shunned by the Zabi's once and that's it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2016 18:18
|
|
|
Belzac posted:Not in terms of animation to my knowledge. I think I remember it in a Ghiren's Greed game but they make no mention of it in any anime, including MSG where Ral just mentions he's shunned by the Zabi's once and that's it. Very little of the pre-OYW stuff was ever animated so that isn't really meaningful. They didn't 'add a Zabi just to die', they showed a character who has been established by multiple sources as existing who died. (Likewise the assassination of Sasro being Zabi infighting was also strongly hinted at, though I believe Gihren was the one taking the blame.)
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2016 18:20
|
|
|
Fine, Sasro exist in some canon somewhere before The Origin OVA. But all he does in The Origin is slap Kycilia and die in the next scene. In terms of his relevance to the events of the episode he exists to die so the Zabis have a reason to put pressure on the Rals, and turn Kycilia into a crazy person.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2016 18:27
|
|
|
Belzac posted:Fine, Sasro exist in some canon somewhere before The Origin OVA. But all he does in The Origin is slap Kycilia and die in the next scene. In terms of his relevance to the events of the episode he exists to die so the Zabis have a reason to put pressure on the Rals, and turn Kycilia into a crazy person. Yes, he exists to help emphasize that Kycilia is as ruthless and dangerous as her brother (something that the Origin focuses on and which is kind of necessary for the character to come across as 'almost as bad') and to help spark the major events that come into play. There isn't a ton else they can do with him but his assassination is a part of the history of the setting. He isn't a hugely relevant character but it isn't an out-of-nowhere thing, it's showing a previously glossed-over part of the history. Part of the problem with doing The Origin only as OAVs is that they're not entirely stand alone, they play into other parts of The Origin. They're not a good "this is the prequel to the original anime" because the Origin does change stuff. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Dec 19, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2016 18:30
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:Part of the problem with doing The Origin only as OAVs is that they're not entirely stand alone, they play into other parts of The Origin. They're not a good "this is the prequel to the original anime" because the Origin does change stuff. Couldn't agree more with this part. Also the tone is all over the place which I assume isn't in the manga.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2016 18:41
|
|
|
Belzac posted:Couldn't agree more with this part. Also the tone is all over the place which I assume isn't in the manga. The tone is over the place in the manga too but that is because the manga is attempting to be close to the original show which did have a lot of goofy or silly moments too and the manga doesn't really veer away from that. There's a lot of both genuinely funny and a bit eyerolling stuff in the full Origin. (Kai is amazing. Kai is always amazing.)
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2016 18:50
|
|
|
Belzac posted:Fine, Sasro exist in some canon somewhere before The Origin OVA. But all he does in The Origin is slap Kycilia and die in the next scene. In terms of his relevance to the events of the episode he exists to die so the Zabis have a reason to put pressure on the Rals, and turn Kycilia into a crazy person. I don't understand how "this character only exists so that things can happen in the story" is a criticism. Unless you're going after fiction in general.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2016 19:46
|
|
|
Belzac posted:Fine, Sasro exist in some canon somewhere before The Origin OVA. But all he does in The Origin is slap Kycilia and die in the next scene. In terms of his relevance to the events of the episode he exists to die so the Zabis have a reason to put pressure on the Rals, and turn Kycilia into a crazy person. Why's everyone focusing on the assassination of some Duke? We all know the real World War One was in the European trenches!
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2016 20:10
|
|
|
Because I feel like they could have done the same action (Zabis seize control from all rivals after Zeon's death) in a million other ways that wasn't "oh yeah there was another Zabi kid who died" and is characterized as Ghiren but louder. And then to use that same event to explain why Dozel has scars on his face while also dismissing one of Kycilia's important traits (where she says no one is above patricide and that they'll have a trial for her after the war) WITH CGI HORSES. It's basically a train wreck of an OVA to explain "why does MSG happen" and left a horrible taste in my anime watching orifice.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2016 22:00
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:Kai is amazing. Kai is always amazing. Truer words have never been spoken.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2016 00:45
|
|
|
Belzac posted:Because I feel like they could have done the same action (Zabis seize control from all rivals after Zeon's death) in a million other ways that wasn't "oh yeah there was another Zabi kid who died" and is characterized as Ghiren but louder. And then to use that same event to explain why Dozel has scars on his face while also dismissing one of Kycilia's important traits (where she says no one is above patricide and that they'll have a trial for her after the war) WITH CGI HORSES. It's basically a train wreck of an OVA to explain "why does MSG happen" and left a horrible taste in my anime watching orifice. I actually don't even know what you're arguing. Sasro(who quite literally always existed in the backstory and was simply not in anything animated because there has basically never been an animated production featuring the era before the OYW, he's not an Origin invention) and his assassination serve two major purposes; they establish the Zabi clan as having been politically ruthless even before they seized power and they establish that Kycilia Zabi is just as dangerous as Gihren and is incredibly vengeful to boot. There are flaws in the Origin such as spotty CG in the earlier episodes and a bizarre amount of serendipity(because of course babby Amuro had to meet babby Sayla that one time), but visualizing important events that led up to the One Year War is sort of the entire purpose of the prequel parts of Origin.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2016 02:59
|
|
|
Many of the events it visualizes though weren't actual things till The Origin to my knowledge though like everything that happens in Texas Colony, the young Daikun's escape from Side 3, mobile suits that didn't even exist until origin having a fight on the moon with mobiles suits that also didn't exist, and so on. The big events are seemingly coming in 5 and 6 with the Operation British, Battle of Loum, and the Antartic Treaty but it feels like most of the show is spent having weird coincidences, re-writing the backstory (especially the MS creation stuff), and character assassinating established characters. I always got the impression that Char was looking for a way to coincidentally kill Garma and tried it once before he succeeded (when he unplugged the communication array) but in Origin he has a perfect opportunity to kill Garma through in-action and chooses to not do it for no gain to himself. In fact his actions with Garma after "befriending him" get him graduated into a private and discharged which is not a great career move. Then they let a disgraced discharged private use an experimental mobile suit because reasons. The Origin's backstory stuff establishes The Origin's universe which is fine. But the vast sea of the internet is treating The Origin like a MSG prequel that it is clearly not.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2016 05:53
|
|
|
 Hathaway's Flash is weird. Belzac posted:character assassinating established characters. I'm not sure why you have this weird thing about Kycilia being a good person but she's not. She's scheming, malicious and perfectly willing to leave people to die for her own goals. She murders her own brother while deriding murdering family members, you're not supposed to think she's unironic about it. The thing that sets her off is that she realized that if she hadn't been delayed Gihren would have murdered her too. Belzac posted:I also looked up Sasro and literally the only info on him comes from The Origin. I'll take your word for it that it was just a thing that existed forever in no explained form like the Clone Wars. The only information on him comes from the Origin because he was not much developed, but his presence and assassination are present in other material including errata books (there's faux newspapers article about it), the Tomino novels and Gihren's Greed. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 06:07 on Dec 20, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2016 06:02
|
|
|
I also looked up Sasro and literally the only info on him comes from The Origin. I'll take your word for it that it was just a thing that existed forever in no explained form like the Clone Wars.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2016 06:03
|
|
|
Belzac posted:Many of the events it visualizes though weren't actual things till The Origin to my knowledge though like everything that happens in Texas Colony, the young Daikun's escape from Side 3, mobile suits that didn't even exist until origin having a fight on the moon with mobiles suits that also didn't exist, and so on. Casval and Artesia living on the Texas Colony and meeting the Real Char Aznable there is stuff that existed before the Origin, just not in a terribly fleshed out form. A lot of this stuff is coming into popular understanding due to the Origin because before it was buried in Tomino novels that people haven't actually read or random Gihren's Ambition games and such. Char has a perfect chance to kill Garma and instead realizes that Garma is a naive, credulous, and vulnerable child who he can befriend and use to climb the ladder and get himself into a position where he can achieve his actual goals. Char is only "disgraced" because the Zabis need a scapegoat to blame the Dawn Rebellion on that isn't Garma. Dozle knows drat well that Char was responsible for the actual planning behind the attack and thus knows drat well that Char is extremely talented, which is why when Char asks him about mobile suit piloting Dozle goes "I'll keep you in mind" rather than going "Yeah gently caress off". Plus, Dozle dotes on Garma like mad and knows that Char is Garma's friend. It's a long game being played by Char to climb high enough in the hierarchy that he can actually strike at the Zabis meaningfully.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2016 06:20
|
|
|
Retconning MS development into happening over the course of a decade instead of like, a month, is a good change, imo.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2016 06:36
|
|
|
G Generation has informed me of a ridiculous Gundam name I was unaware of: QUACK SALVER.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2016 06:41
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:G Generation has informed me of a ridiculous Gundam name I was unaware of:
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2016 06:54
|
|
|
 Also tragic: Bright's mustache.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2016 07:35
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:
Stick with the full beard, Bright. You made that work.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2016 07:43
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:
EDIT: Is there even a door on that floor? How did he get those plants up there? Raxivace fucked around with this message at 07:47 on Dec 20, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2016 07:44
|
|
|
Could be on the wall on the sloped roof side.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2016 07:57
|
|
|
Raxivace posted:He has too many plants on the second floor IMO. He rode the rainbow.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2016 07:57
|
|
|
Logicblade posted:He rode the rainbow. Well, if we're being pedantic, Mirai did it for him, but she let Bright say he did it so he'd feel better. Origins Mirai is pretty great, thinking about it. It's very useful on a ship like the White Base to have someone who isn't halfway to a mental breakdown, desertion, or both.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2016 08:08
|
|
|
chiasaur11 posted:Well, if we're being pedantic, Mirai did it for him, but she let Bright say he did it so he'd feel better. Welcome to war yo. And given in Gundam it's pretty much already an extinction level event just about it's surprising everyone isn't a coked out wastoid killing themselves with meth and Everclear. Mirai does own though. A shame about her useless rear end kid. Who is apparently the only person Bright won't slap the poo poo out of.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2016 21:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 18:17 |
|
|
Captain Rufus posted:Welcome to war yo. And given in Gundam it's pretty much already an extinction level event just about it's surprising everyone isn't a coked out wastoid killing themselves with meth and Everclear. Bright marries Mirai, has kids, and then studiously spends the next decade and a half avoiding his family at every possible opportunity. For all that he is a father figure to a procession of newtype children, he is an awful father to his own family.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2016 23:56
|
|