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logikv9 posted:name your children president so that they are already president 
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Dec 20, 2016 19:25
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logikv9 posted:pence seems like the type of guy who would totally try and engineer trump's downfall if his approval ratings really crashed and burned Why do that when he can just sit back for a couple of months and wait for Trump to be impeached?
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Dec 20, 2016 19:26
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzxJgWbm_3I
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Dec 20, 2016 19:26
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Serf posted:*INT. - THE DNC HEADQUARTERS - DAY. Our heroes BERNIE SANDERS and KEITH ELLISON are being led down the hall by newfound ally CHUCK SCHUMER.* Keith Ellison is the Han Solo we don't deserve 
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Dec 20, 2016 19:27
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tower time posted:In the past certain branches of marxist and socialist feminism proposed the state pay women to raise children/act as homemakers as it provides a social contribution. It largely fell out of favor for the left under criticisms that it would reinforce women's role as primary caretaker of children, materially favored heterosexual women, and/or would culturally be used to keep women out of the workplace and in a subservient role. I'm the guy who thinks it's a good idea to abandon a good policy that would help lots of women by asking "but would it solve sexism?" (and who apparently can't conceive of implementing it in a non-sexist way or considering that mothers who are actually raising their children being able to rely on a source of income independent from their husbands might actually combat subservience)
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Dec 20, 2016 19:27
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the reveal that she mainly surrounded herself by complete morons who said poo poo like 'you need to mind game him in Kansas, gently caress going to Wisconsin' was like finding out santa isn't real.
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Dec 20, 2016 19:27
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Serf posted:this thread taught me that 120k isn't that much lmao im gonna be honest, i make more than i deserve. a lot of this comes from me being relatively blind to my own privilege and taking things for granted, even though i dont feel particularly privileged myself. probably better to just remain quiet on this for me.
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Dec 20, 2016 19:28
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Rangpur posted:Not that I really need an excuse to bag on the Clintons' hiring practices but I'm morbidly curious about what you mean by that. They had Penn for the first campaign who was a grade-A moron and this campaign had Mook & others who decided that Nate Silver was the future and went all in on that. Tbh it wasn't the worst thing they could do but they were playing with fire and should have been more careful. They were also historically bad at shuffling up their staff (exceptions are Penn and solis), and created a bubble not of yes-men necessarily but of people who were prized for loyalty over anything else. They had bad issues in the past with people like DICK! morris and concerns about the vast right wing conspiracy
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Dec 20, 2016 19:29
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GlyphGryph posted:I'm the guy who thinks it's a good idea to abandon a good policy that would help lots of women by asking "but would it solve sexism?" (and who apparently can't conceive of implementing it in a non-sexist way or considering that mothers who are actually raising their children being able to rely on a source of income independent from their husbands might actually combat subservience)
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Dec 20, 2016 19:30
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Pollyanna posted:im gonna be honest, i make more than i deserve. a lot of this comes from me being relatively blind to my own privilege and taking things for granted, even though i dont feel particularly privileged myself. probably better to just remain quiet on this for me. Use your excess income to fund local progressive political groups or start one yourself, it'll make you feel better than buying an apple watch or 4K3DTV or whatever.
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Dec 20, 2016 19:30
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Well, keep in mind that the last time marxist/socialist feminism had many proponents was largely in the 1970s and 1980s and has largely died in both movement and Academic writing since the equal rights ammendment was defeated. A lot of what seems somewhat obvious now was a major cultural leap 40 years ago, despite many of their economic ideas being much more radical than we are willing to discuss. Many of the later arguments Marxist feminism had became very insular in that way far leftism does - arguing finer details with other academics while not talking much to anyone outside of universities until it was all dead.
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Dec 20, 2016 19:30
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Tatum Girlparts posted:the reveal that she mainly surrounded herself by complete morons again who said poo poo like 'you need to mind game him in Kansas, gently caress going to Wisconsin' was like finding out santa isn't real. This is what gets me so much. How, how can someone be so bad at hiring competent campaign staff? I mean if you have the slightest degree of hindsight and realize why you got so badly drubbed in 2008 yo- oh. Oh. I figured it out.
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Dec 20, 2016 19:30
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Thoguh posted:Why do that when he can just sit back for a couple of months and wait for Trump to be impeached? Trump won't go quietly, is capable of twitter-flaming GOP votes into submission, and will never resign Pence will be the hooded figure passing along damning evidence to the WaPo reporter in a secluded parking lot to hurry the process along
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Dec 20, 2016 19:31
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yeah I cast Bernie Sanders as Princess Leia, idgah socialism is the Death Star plans
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Dec 20, 2016 19:31
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loquacius posted:see, social justice and economic justice ARE fundamentally opposed I like the bit where they imply this is a bad thing because women who perform an invaluable job shouldn't be paid for it because they would be less likely to do, you know, "real" work, and they we should leave those who perform the job financially dependent on their spouses lest we encourage "subservience".
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Dec 20, 2016 19:32
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Robby Mook is a shameful gay on the level of Roy Cohn.
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Dec 20, 2016 19:32
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Pence doesn't need to do some shadowy coup to get power. Trump has proudly said he doesn't really have much interest in being in DC, Pence is gonna man the big boy desk while Trump flies around bilking idiots out of their merch money at his rallies.
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Dec 20, 2016 19:34
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MaxxBot posted:Robby Mook is a shameful gay on the level of Roy Cohn. nah roy cohn was a truly abominable human being to the point where even his patch on the aids quilt flames him
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Dec 20, 2016 19:34
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tower time posted:Well, keep in mind that the last time marxist/socialist feminism had many proponents was largely in the 1970s and 1980s and has largely died in both movement and Academic writing since the equal rights ammendment was defeated. A lot of what seems somewhat obvious now was a major cultural leap 40 years ago, despite many of their economic ideas being much more radical than we are willing to discuss. Many of the later arguments Marxist feminism had became very insular in that way far leftism does - arguing finer details with other academics while not talking much to anyone outside of universities until it was all dead. Anyway I think we should bring this back and make it a plank of the party. Something bold, something new. Do it in a non-sexist way. Fight for reclassification of parents as vital national workers doing an important job, and see they are financially rewarded for it. That would be some crazy poo poo man.
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Dec 20, 2016 19:35
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paranoid randroid posted:nah roy cohn was a truly abominable human being to the point where even his patch on the aids quilt flames him True, Roy Cohn comparisons are probably like the gay Godwin's law. Mook deserves it though.
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Dec 20, 2016 19:35
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GlyphGryph posted:I like the bit where they imply this is a bad thing because women who perform an invaluable job shouldn't be paid for it because they would be less likely to do, you know, "real" work, and they we should leave those who perform the job financially dependent on their spouses lest we encourage "subservience". 1970s second-wave feminism accomplished many important things but also had some serious flaws They also wouldn't have liked the "just make the 'parent' job available to either gender" solution because that might entail giving money to men sometimes, even if the context was giving money to men so they could be homemakers and let their wives be breadwinners
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Dec 20, 2016 19:36
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Serf posted:yeah I cast Bernie Sanders as Princess Leia, idgah Somewhere a hack political cartoonist is no doubt penning something functionally indistinguishable from this.
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Dec 20, 2016 19:36
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Ace of Baes posted:Use your excess income to fund local progressive political groups or start one yourself, it'll make you feel better than buying an apple watch or 4K3DTV or whatever. planning on this. the money is better spent there, anyway.
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Dec 20, 2016 19:36
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Tatum Girlparts posted:Pence doesn't need to do some shadowy coup to get power. Trump has proudly said he doesn't really have much interest in being in DC, Pence is gonna man the big boy desk while Trump flies around bilking idiots out of their merch money at his rallies. I thought he was gonna try to farm out some of the work to his kids though, wouldn't they cramp Pence's style? Serf posted:yeah I cast Bernie Sanders as Princess Leia, idgah many Bothans died to bring us this economic philosophy
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Dec 20, 2016 19:37
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paranoid randroid posted:nah roy cohn was a truly abominable human being to the point where even his patch on the aids quilt flames him Possibly the only person who deserved to die of AIDS, much like Reagan deserved to die of Alzheimer's.
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Dec 20, 2016 19:37
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logikv9 posted:i only assign part of the blame to Hillary, mostly for hiring people based on loyalty vs absolute skill (although most people do this and judging from her history with hires deciding to go all nuts on her I'm not surprised) This. This right here is why Hillary is one of the main architects of her loss. I believe, however, that it's a natural product of having every major media outlet and figure bag on you for 20+ years. You get paranoid and make dumbshit decisions--closing the circle because you're terrified you might let someone in who says bad things about you. I guess that being the media's punching bag for so long affected her more than we thought.
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Dec 20, 2016 19:38
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I'd be happy to see it implemented in any case and just tied to the primary caregiver of a child. Children not starving is something most people get behind even if they feel compelled to be judgemental about the parents - the same reason "healthcare for every child" is something Republicans in Iowa support while not expanding the same grace to adults. Not to mention holy poo poo, how much a system would help people to leave abusive relationships with a child as they would have a source of independent income to draw from after getting out.
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Dec 20, 2016 19:38
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the death star is capitalism America is the empire holy poo poo I gotta go write a thinkpiece
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Dec 20, 2016 19:39
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Alter Ego posted:This. This right here is why Hillary is one of the main architects of her loss. Which is why I'm never going to get my Clinton bunker election night tell all, drat it.
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Dec 20, 2016 19:39
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GlyphGryph posted:Anyway I think we should bring this back and make it a plank of the party. Something bold, something new. Do it in a non-sexist way. Fight for reclassification of parents as vital national workers doing an important job, and see they are financially rewarded for it. That sounds like legit nazi baby factory poo poo though
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Dec 20, 2016 19:39
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Serf posted:the death star is capitalism Clerks came out like 25 years ago and beat you to it.
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Dec 20, 2016 19:40
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logikv9 posted:They were also historically bad at shuffling up their staff (exceptions are Penn and solis), and created a bubble not of yes-men necessarily but of people who were prized for loyalty over anything else. They had bad issues in the past with people like DICK! morris and concerns about the vast right wing conspiracy much like any form of influence peddling or bribery is acceptable so long as it doesn't involve handing over a burlap sack with a big '$' sign on it
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Dec 20, 2016 19:40
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Alter Ego posted:This. This right here is why Hillary is one of the main architects of her loss. I remember when criticizing Hillary automatically made you a secret right-winger because the right wing had criticized Hillary so much that criticizing Hillary was inherently right-wing
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Dec 20, 2016 19:41
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Thoguh posted:Clerks came out like 25 years ago and beat you to it. jk, the rebels are the viet cong and america was always the empire but thinkpieces rarely have anything new to say
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Dec 20, 2016 19:41
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logikv9 posted:They had Penn for the first campaign who was a grade-A moron and this campaign had Mook & others who decided that Nate Silver was the future and went all in on that. Tbh it wasn't the worst thing they could do but they were playing with fire and should have been more careful. If they'd listened to nate silver they'd have covered their arse in the midwest more lol
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Dec 20, 2016 19:48
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loquacius posted:I remember when criticizing Hillary automatically made you a secret right-winger because the right wing had criticized Hillary so much that criticizing Hillary was inherently right-wing The problem is that they spent so long criticizing her for illegitimate reasons that it turned her into someone worthy of criticism for legitimate reasons (No, I am not referring to her Goldman Sachs speeches or her pro-corporate bent).
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Dec 20, 2016 19:48
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I say next election we nominate a John Doe coma patient whose expected to come out soon as nominee so people can ascribe whatever beliefs they want to him
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Dec 20, 2016 19:50
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logikv9 posted:i only assign part of the blame to Hillary, mostly for hiring people based on loyalty vs absolute skill (although most people do this and judging from her history with hires deciding to go all nuts on her I'm not surprised) i'm going to enter rant mode a bit here- i don't think she hired people based on loyalty. except for mook, basically all of the senior staff they hired were from obamaworld. benenson, michelle kleppe, marlon marshall, elan kriegel, jennifer palmieri, etc were all obama alumni. virtually all of their state-level staff worked for obama in 2012, as well. unfortunately obamaworld is full of the most annoying people on the loving planet because of their slavish devotion to the Obama Way of doing things, so basically many of the people there decided to just do the exact thing they did for obama except forgetting about the fact that their candidate is not named barack obama. in a sense, my complaint with the campaign was not that hillary refused to do things obama did to win, but rather they refused to do anything but what he did except for small tweaks and subtractions. i know i come off as the chief hillary campaign defender in this thread, which is kind of funny to me because i left the campaign early on in part because i was frustrated with how impenetrable it was. i remember repeatedly flagging to my supervisor that the model was not working properly in iowa. the model broke down by precinct the number of expected supporters and total caucus-goers. they had organizers call and canvass through lists of likely supporters to identify enough supporters in each precinct to win statewide. but there were not enough likely supporters to actually win - large numbers of "likely supporters" were not caucusing, supporting bernie, or still undecided. their solution to this was just contact them over and over until they said they were backing hillary, rather than expanding the universe and searching for additional supporters. since even then they weren't trying to persuade voters over from bernie, there was a big surprise on caucus night when turnout greatly exceeded projections. and all those additional people were sanders supporters that no one had ever even tried to ask to support hillary instead. caucuses are hard to model, but i had assumed that the data team would have learned its lessons and worked harder to validate the modeling. i suppose they had some reason to think it was fine - after all, they called most primary states correctly. per the podesta emails, the hillary team knew michigan was going to be a problem during the primary even as public polling showed her way ahead. but obviously, something was wrong. a lot of people on hillary side are blaming comey, and maybe there is some element of truth to that. if undecided voters broke over the last week toward trump/3rd party, it might be a pretty big reason why the model was wrong. but there's clearly more to the story, and it's fair to argue that the race should not have been close enough for trump to win in the first place.
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Dec 20, 2016 19:52
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Phi230 posted:That sounds like legit nazi baby factory poo poo though
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Dec 20, 2016 19:52
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Alter Ego posted:The problem is that they spent so long criticizing her for illegitimate reasons that it turned her into someone worthy of criticism for legitimate reasons (No, I am not referring to her Goldman Sachs speeches or her pro-corporate bent). Do you reject that there were, in fact, legitimate criticisms of Hillary?
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Dec 20, 2016 19:53
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