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Crowsbeak posted:I think it might actually be possible because of how they barley crushed Sander's disorganized campaign in the primaries. i think if we organize from the ground up we can take over the structures of the party. Your missing his bigger point. The Sanders/Ellison wing of the party can take it over if they want to but, where do you go from there? Exactly which states do you think Ellison or Sanders could be elected in outside of where they live? Which swing states is an Ellison or Sanders going to appeal to? I'll give you Michigan and Pennsylvania, maybe, but from there, is that sort of progressive politics going to play in Florida, Iowa, Ohio or Wisconsin? Is it going to even take hold in Oregon, Colorado, Washington or Nevada? Sure, take the loving party over, that's the easy part; the hard part is governing.
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Dec 21, 2016 22:15
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Al! posted:more progressive than fdr and johnson combined, i heard. did you know he created the epa, the wpa, and the ccc???? did u know im gonna throw u thru a stack of pallets while howling, u freaking nogoodnik!!!
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Dec 21, 2016 22:15
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paranoid randroid posted:people will totally whine about criticisms of Perez if he becomes DNC chair. thats not a conspiracy theory thats just observing recorded history. Which is why I don't understand why Tatum is accusing me of being a conspiracy theorist for saying it. Like I think they are consistently confusing "predictions for how things will happen" for "accusations of nefarious plots".
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Dec 21, 2016 22:15
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How could anyone still be neutral about lovely, corporate boot-licking, wallstreet funded donors like Booker. It really confuses the poo poo outta me :/
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Dec 21, 2016 22:15
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two years is a long time and i believe in 2018. i am optimistic for some stupid reason
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Dec 21, 2016 22:16
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GlyphGryph posted:Which is why I don't understand why Tatum is accusing me of being a conspiracy theorist for saying it. because everyone itt including me are always all twisted up inside with political angst and should probably mellow
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Dec 21, 2016 22:16
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GlyphGryph posted:Which is why I don't understand why Tatum is accusing me of being a conspiracy theorist for saying it. because you're ascribing the 'whining' to some plot to lay the groundwork for some horrible establishment monster to stab Ellison in the back, when really people will just complain about things that bug them.
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Dec 21, 2016 22:16
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It's kinda hard to gauge what success/defeat would look like in 2018. The Senate is out of play and Ellison would be first in line for Godhood if he even manages to successfully prevent significant losses by dint of the map. House and state legislature gains are likely, but might not be big enough to really raise eyebrows unless he successfully makes the party competitive outside urbanized areas. Gubernatorial races, where geography doesn't matter, will be the first test of Ellison's ability to motivate turnout among traditional dems in off-years, and the first two contests will be next year in Virginia and New Jersey. So at least we can reassess how his strategy is working going into 2018. The rural cultural identification with the Republican narrative of "us against the elites" has to be (re)coopted, and that could take some time. If Ellison follows through by recruiting local notables and propelling them onto the national scene we might see some traction. Coopting agrarian concerns against the unified Republican Government isn't necessarily out of the question either. Daily Yonder is a pretty good resource for progressive issues in rural areas for those on the outside looking in. http://www.dailyyonder.com/letter-from-langdon-obamas-ag-record-will-look-great-compared-to-trumps/2016/12/20/16786/ I'm born, bred and likely to die in Methghanistan, Indiana, but even I've got a tinge of hope. Talked to our state chairman's staff today and relayed support for Ellison among the elder millennials in my area, for all the good that'll do. Maybe Indiana can be a force of good for once, instead of just polluting the skyline with creationist billboards and murdering Lincoln's mother with poisoned milk.
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Dec 21, 2016 22:17
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GlyphGryph posted:It's not a loving conspiracy you dingbat, but you've convinced me it's absolutely true. 
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Dec 21, 2016 22:17
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yeah the whining isnt a plot; its just that democrats excel at whining
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Dec 21, 2016 22:17
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paranoid randroid posted:did u know im gonna throw u thru a stack of pallets while howling, u freaking nogoodnik!!! every time u protest, nixon gets a little more progressive in this game of political price is right.
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Dec 21, 2016 22:18
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I also think it's real bad to just assume Ellison is gonna win, that seems real dumb unless you don't actually care whether or not he wins.Tatum Girlparts posted:because you're ascribing the 'whining' to some plot to lay the groundwork for some horrible establishment monster to stab Ellison in the back, when really people will just complain about things that bug them. No I'm not.
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Dec 21, 2016 22:18
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source: *gestures to encompass this thread*
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Dec 21, 2016 22:18
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How am I supposed to interpret this, it seems pretty dumb. Like you think there's something hypocritical in that statement.
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Dec 21, 2016 22:18
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logikv9 posted:two years is a long time and i believe in 2018. i am optimistic for some stupid reason something extreme is gonna have to happen for that gotta get worse before it gets better
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Dec 21, 2016 22:19
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Abrasive Obelisk posted:Since someone brought it up, here is Ellison's pick on the Florida DNC race; http://miamiherald.typepad.com/nake...deep-organ.html I thought compromising on ideals in order to attract big donor money was a bad thing, and that Ellison was gonna reform the system and purge the establishment elites RENEGADE CUCKSKY posted:someone quote me in like 3 years: this is exactly what ive been predicting for weeks. except that as DNC chair, he will sometimes be forced to support incumbent, big donors, and other establishment darlings against progressive outsider challengers. the optics of a progressive bona fide like Keith turning around and backing the establishment will discredit the Sanders movement and cause it to collapse into infighting and chaos as everyone accuses everyone else of being fake progressives and the resulting ideological tests and witch-hunts devastate the left for the next few years this is why a smart progressive movement would be worrying about replacing most of the several hundred DNC members rather than obsessing over which figurehead sits in the chairman's seat. real power flows from the bottom up, not the top down, and it rests in numbers rather than official positions. by hanging all their hopes on Ellison, the left is setting themselves up for another Obama-style disappointment where changing one guy turns out to not have the drastic impact on the system that they had hoped for
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Dec 21, 2016 22:19
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GlyphGryph posted:How am I supposed to interpret this, it seems pretty dumb. There's a vein on your forehead right now innit Chiiiiilll my friend
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Dec 21, 2016 22:20
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please keep posting gifs they are a ray of sunshine in an otherwise dark and dreary thread no joke
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Dec 21, 2016 22:20
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GlyphGryph posted:I also think it's real bad to just assume Ellison is gonna win, that seems real dumb unless you don't actually care whether or not he wins. I love that literally any statement isn't good enough for you. I like Ellison and think he's gonna win because he has more support from people that matter than Perez does unless he does something to really gently caress that up. This is nothing like Hillary's campaign because they're entirely different contexts and Ellison is by all accounts campaigning well and making his case to the people he needs to, and his only opponent is a latecomer who's kinda just there to say 'ya know...Obama did some good stuff too...' occasionally. The only true way to show how much you care is to be in a constant state of meltdown and assume all your allies are liars trying to lure you into a false sense of security before Schumer can stab you in the back for his corporate masters.
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Dec 21, 2016 22:21
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paranoid randroid posted:yeah the whining isnt a plot; its just that democrats excel at whining isn't that against the interest of the public?
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Dec 21, 2016 22:22
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Tatum Girlparts posted:I love that literally any statement isn't good enough for you. personally I find it interesting that you use language from my posts in response to other people as if they had said it lol
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Dec 21, 2016 22:23
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the gently caress is a public interest
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Dec 21, 2016 22:23
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radical meme posted:Your missing his bigger point. The Sanders/Ellison wing of the party can take it over if they want to but, where do you go from there? Exactly which states do you think Ellison or Sanders could be elected in outside of where they live? Which swing states is an Ellison or Sanders going to appeal to? I'll give you Michigan and Pennsylvania, maybe, but from there, is that sort of progressive politics going to play in Florida, Iowa, Ohio or Wisconsin? Is it going to even take hold in Oregon, Colorado, Washington or Nevada? Sure, take the loving party over, that's the easy part; the hard part is governing. I can't tell if this is a serious post.
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Dec 21, 2016 22:23
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paranoid randroid posted:the gently caress is a public interest 
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Dec 21, 2016 22:24
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Main Paineframe posted:this is why a smart progressive movement would be worrying about replacing most of the several hundred DNC members rather than obsessing over which figurehead sits in the chairman's seat. real power flows from the bottom up, not the top down, and it rests in numbers rather than official positions. by hanging all their hopes on Ellison, the left is setting themselves up for another Obama-style disappointment where changing one guy turns out to not have the drastic impact on the system that they had hoped for Please god can someone make this the thread title really folks: the Democratic party, even with Keith Ellison as the fuckin DNC chair, is not your Moses. "Top down organizing" is useless as gently caress in a political sense, and even with Vladimir Lenin leading the DNC you still need a groundswell of activists and local engagement to get anything done at all. if you want to 'rebuild' the Democratic party, go out and support Corey Booker and Tulsi Gabbard. If you want to rebuild leftism, go out and join your local IWW, organize your workplace, go to a local SURJ meeting, etc.
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Dec 21, 2016 22:24
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that's why you don't engage with trostom gephart.
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Dec 21, 2016 22:25
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Lastgirl posted:There's a vein on your forehead right now innit NO CHILL *vein pops, dies*
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Dec 21, 2016 22:26
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I think you can maybe do both things and not only one thing. You can push for Ellison and also act locally. I do it and I'm a lazy piece of poo poo.
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Dec 21, 2016 22:26
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radical meme posted:Your missing his bigger point. The Sanders/Ellison wing of the party can take it over if they want to but, where do you go from there? Exactly which states do you think Ellison or Sanders could be elected in outside of where they live? Which swing states is an Ellison or Sanders going to appeal to? I'll give you Michigan and Pennsylvania, maybe, but from there, is that sort of progressive politics going to play in Florida, Iowa, Ohio or Wisconsin? Is it going to even take hold in Oregon, Colorado, Washington or Nevada? Sure, take the loving party over, that's the easy part; the hard part is governing. Nevada, yes. They had to trot out the cops and barricades during the primary. I would worry about the top down structure. We had Hillary professional-class surrogates from CA in every precinct on their own dime telling people that a vote for Bernie was just like Nader and we would lose.
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Dec 21, 2016 22:28
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Fidel Castronaut posted:I think you can maybe do both things and not only one thing. You can push for Ellison and also act locally. I do it and I'm a lazy piece of poo poo. you can do both things, but most people have limited time and spending it all on sperging out about the vastly inferior option (Keith Ellison as DNC Chair) will land you nowhere
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Dec 21, 2016 22:28
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Fidel Castronaut posted:I think you can maybe do both things and not only one thing. You can push for Ellison and also act locally. I do it and I'm a lazy piece of poo poo. Thank you, yes. Making this seem harder than it is isn't going to help.
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Dec 21, 2016 22:29
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RENEGADE CUCKSKY posted:Please god can someone make this the thread title may I recommend... the PSL 
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Dec 21, 2016 22:29
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paranoid randroid posted:the gently caress is a public interest telling the president of the bank to resign is public interest 
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Dec 21, 2016 22:29
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RENEGADE CUCKSKY posted:you can do both things, but most people have limited time and spending it all on sperging out about the vastly inferior option (Keith Ellison as DNC Chair) will land you nowhere I mean, we're posting on Something Awful dot com. I don't know if any of us are using our time wisely.
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Dec 21, 2016 22:30
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Fidel Castronaut posted:I mean, we're posting on Something Awful dot com. I don't know if any of us are using our time wisely. god ive been owned so many times today 
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Dec 21, 2016 22:30
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I just want somebody to post that fight song gif so I can waste time fiddling in photoshop for something that won't be as funny as it is in my head.
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Dec 21, 2016 22:31
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RENEGADE CUCKSKY posted:Please god can someone make this the thread title It also needs politicians in the party willing to bend to the pressure from activists, or a way to route around them. You need to do both, you can't just surrender to the party to the "centrists" or the activists will be marginalized no matter what they do. GlyphGryph has issued a correction as of 22:34 on Dec 21, 2016 |
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Dec 21, 2016 22:32
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Fidel Castronaut posted:I just want somebody to post that fight song gif so I can waste time fiddling in photoshop for something that won't be as funny as it is in my head. be sure to throw this in your project  cos thast what this thread is today also check the chat thread, or ask Karl Barks again
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Dec 21, 2016 22:32
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RENEGADE CUCKSKY posted:you can do both things, but most people have limited time and spending it all on sperging out about the vastly inferior option (Keith Ellison as DNC Chair) will land you nowhere We don't need "most people" to organize for progressive change, though. You don't need tens of millions of people to organize to affect change among DNC members or whatever. Party leadership members tend to be cowards; getting a voice loud enough to spook them isn't as hard as you're making it seem.
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Dec 21, 2016 22:33
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are we not all going to meetings and getting into the party on a local level when we're not here shitposting??
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Dec 21, 2016 22:33
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