|
Basebf555 posted:As bad as the majority of Kevin Smith's movies are, none could ever be as bad as listening to Kevin Smith talk, which I try to never ever do. "Kevin Smithing It" is an actual phrase now in the English Lexicon for someone who dominates conversations with their stupid poo poo, under the ignorant guise that, if you pretend you're interesting, you're actually interesting. It can be shortened to "Smithing", "Smithing It", or you can just refer to the person as "Kevin". I'm curious as to how bad Yoga Hosers can be, even though I know it'll be terrible. But his next movie is Moose Jaws.... Moose. Jaws. The idea that gets worse the more you say it. Moose Jaws. 
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2016 20:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 18:38 |
|
|
veni veni veni posted:It's impressive with how bad Kevin Smith started out that he's managed to get consistently worse over the years. It honestly is, it's like he's making anti-films. Tusk was terrible in some really interesting ways, same with Red State.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2016 20:50
|
|
|
precision posted:It honestly is, it's like he's making anti-films. Tusk was terrible in some really interesting ways, same with Red State. It feels like he edits the movies piece by piece, and after he's finished editing the movie, he doesn't sit down and watch the whole movie and see if it even works.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2016 20:53
|
|
|
Weirdly I found red state to be the most watchable thing he has done even though it was incredibly bad. Which is why I bothered watching Tusk. Tusk was hands down the worst movie I have ever seen in my entire life.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2016 20:54
|
|
|
veni veni veni posted:Weirdly I found red state to be the most watchable thing he has done even though it was incredibly bad. Which is why I bothered watching Tusk. That's giving Kevin Smith too much credit. Kevin Smith's bad isn't even so-bad-it's-good or so-bad-it's-painful. It's just mediocre. Tusk, with all it's flaws, should still be able to get something out of it's stupidly outlandish premise, but it's just boring and flat, and the crazy premise makes up about half an hour of the movie. Johnny Depp's cameo is almost as long as the walrus part.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2016 21:02
|
|
|
Franchescanado posted:he doesn't sit down and watch the whole movie and see if it even works. So, Kevin Smith is the biggest Kevin Smith fan? Checks out.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2016 21:14
|
|
|
I haven't seen it since I was a kid but nobody can tell me Dogma is not a great movie 
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2016 22:04
|
|
|
Jay and silent bob strike back is still hilarious
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2016 22:06
|
|
|
drunken officeparty posted:I haven't seen it since I was a kid but nobody can tell me Dogma is not a great movie I'd agree that its Smith's best work but I think to call it a great movie would be a stretch. It was during a time when Smith had the clout to get a really awesome cast together though, so it has that going for it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2016 22:07
|
|
|
It probably didn't help him that his early successes surrounded him with nerd sycophants just like himself. I think he was more excited about making dolls and RST Video shirts than he was learning how to make real movies. The fragile ego and borderline self-hatred don't help either.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2016 22:15
|
|
|
No person in Hollywood owes more to Matt Damon, Ben Affleck and George Carlin than Kevin Smith. Maybe it's time we hold Matt Damon and Ben Affleck accountable for the continued presence of Kevin Smith.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2016 22:24
|
|
|
His daughter's name is Harley Quinn and she fights foot tall sausage nazis in Yoga Hosers, the follow up to Tusk (prequel to Moose Jaws). I didn't make any of that sentence up. Does he finance all of this with Clerks royalties or
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2016 22:27
|
|
|
Basebf555 posted:I'd agree that its Smith's best work but I think to call it a great movie would be a stretch. It was during a time when Smith had the clout to get a really awesome cast together though, so it has that going for it. I haven't seen it in a while, but Chasing Amy is pretty good. I think that everything he made from Mallrats to Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back are decent to good movies, and some of them are "great" contextually, ie "Tusk is terrible, but Dogma is great", "Jersey Girl sucked but Chasing Amy was great", etc. Comparing a Kevin Smith movie to any other competent director's movies isn't even a fair challenge, Smith will always lose. Inspector Hound posted:His daughter's name is Harley Quinn Has he ever attempted to justify why he would name is daughter after a comic book sex symbol that glorifies poor mental health and abusive relationships? (You know what, as I typed it out, I think the question is the answer.) Or why his wife would go along with it?
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2016 22:40
|
|
|
Chasing Amy is 1/2 a great movie and 1/2 an incredibly bad one.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2016 22:55
|
|
|
Tusk was good. Y'all need to hop off the internet Kevin Smith hate train, yeah he's made some lovely movies but that doesn't retroactively make everything he's ever done terrible.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2016 22:56
|
|
|
Field Mousepad posted:Tusk was good. Y'all need to hop off the internet Kevin Smith hate train, yeah he's made some lovely movies but that doesn't retroactively make everything he's ever done terrible. No, it's lack of talent and growth as an artist/writer/director/whatever. I don't like Kevin Smith because he can't shut the gently caress up. Evidence: watch Waste An Evening With Kevin Smith 1-56, or his appearance on Getting Doug With High, or his podcast, or any loving podcast they'll let him on before they realize he's a selfish guest, and never invite him again. I don't like Kevin Smiths movies because he seems to be de-evolving. He has gotten lazier, he is surrounded by Yes Men, and he is comfortable with his lackluster career, because he's paying the bills and doesn't have to worry about stability anymore. See also Adam Sandler. He also realized that the drugs he wrote about for a decade before actually trying them are pretty cool, and so he just does sits around smoking weed, also reflected in his work. Like M. Night, once you kinda see the schtick, the rest do retroactively fall apart, because the originality is cheapened by repetition. That said, Dogma and Chasing Amy are good, despite their flaws. And I disagree, Tusk is not good by any standard. Unless you are Kevin Smith. Edit: I think what fuels the fire of my Kevin Smith dislike, besides the fact that I don't like him as a person, is because he did make decent/good movies at one point, and had potential to do something great. He didn't. He's lazy, he's afraid of risk (which he admits), he makes profits by making cheap movies (which he admits), he's a better writer than anything else (which he admits) and even that he doesn't like to self-edit (which he admits). It's not like this is new. He admits often that he's bad at everything. Franchescanado fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Dec 21, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2016 23:05
|
|
|
Everything you just said makes it sound like you don't like him as a person. You can separate the man and the movies dude.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2016 23:18
|
|
|
I felt like the guy who played the crazy old walrus maker in Tusk and the people who designed the walrus suit deserved a better movie
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2016 23:21
|
|
|
I just watched the trailer for Yoga Hosers and it's already the worst movie I've seen all year. "Nein! Nein! Nein! So much nein it's almost ten!" This is an actual thing that someone wrote, thought was funny, filmed, and put in a trailer. I'm a pretty fuckin' big pothead but even I think Smith needs to lay off the bong.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2016 23:23
|
|
|
Franchescanado posted:"Kevin Smithing It" is an actual phrase now in the English Lexicon for someone who dominates conversations with their stupid poo poo, under the ignorant guise that, if you pretend you're interesting, you're actually interesting. It can be shortened to "Smithing", "Smithing It", or you can just refer to the person as "Kevin". I love that Favraeu dining with celebrities thing alone for how much Affleck and Garner seemed to radiate annoyance whenever he spoke. Does Smith say anything bad about Affleck now that he's literally Batman?
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2016 23:26
|
|
|
Field Mousepad posted:Everything you just said makes it sound like you don't like him as a person. You can separate the man and the movies dude. Yeah, I openly admitted that. It's hard to separate them when he writes himself into most of them. Show me how it's done. Write a critique explaining why Tusk is good.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2016 23:38
|
|
|
I would also like to hear why Tusk was good.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2016 23:54
|
|
|
I'll admit I used to like Smith's Fatman on Batman podcast when he interviewed people like Neal Adams or Denny O'Neil. He was a pretty good interviewer and didn't bogart the mic. But for a while now the show has been about him reading comicbook.com articles and it's terrible so I unsubscribed. As for his movies I haven't seen anything since Dogma, which was pretty good.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2016 23:54
|
|
|
Dogma was the film where it hit me that I didn't like Kevin Smith anymore. I couldn't wait to see it and was shocked at how bad it was, but assumed it was a fluke. Then I went back and watched mallrats and Clerks again and realized he was bad all along I was just 14 when those came out and they had lots of poop jokes.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2016 00:02
|
|
|
Franchescanado posted:Yeah, I openly admitted that. It's hard to separate them when he writes himself into most of them. My bad I missed that part of the edit. I'd like to hear why people don't like it first because all I've seen is "it's bad because Kevin Smith lol" in this thread.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2016 00:02
|
|
|
Considering it's a film that is liked by almost no one I think you should go first.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2016 00:06
|
|
|
veni veni veni posted:Considering it's a film that is liked by almost no one I think you should go first.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2016 00:10
|
|
|
Tusk is good cause of the walrus costume. Plus I like Justin long
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2016 00:17
|
|
|
Some of Kevin's early stuff showed a lot potential, and it's sad to see him degenerate into making lovely movies to pay the bills. He could have been a really fantastic and unique director if he had focused on honing his craft, but it seems like he's settled for just unique.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2016 00:28
|
|
|
veni veni veni posted:Considering it's a film that is liked by almost no one I think you should go first. Fair enough, I'll go first. It's been a minute since I've seen it but I'll go off the top of my head. First off I like Justin Long, he sticks mostly to goofball sidekick roles but in this movie he plays a smarmy douchebag to perfection. I was rooting for him to get hosed up, he owned that role completely. The story was pretty original. The way the movie was shot and the setting was great, I like the simple, claustrophobic type movies. The doctor(?) guy was awesome, I could listen to him tell bullshit stories for hours, he's like a cool grandpa. The walrus outfit/costume or whatever was fuckin rad. It's very much a love it or hate it film, yeah it could have used some better editing and the humor(attempted humor whatever) kinda falls flat. It's got it's flaws no doubt but: veni veni veni posted:Tusk was hands down the worst movie I have ever seen in my entire life.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2016 00:32
|
|
|
I've been doing a bit of 30 for 30 binging since a bunch are getting delisted at the end of the month. Those are pretty great documentaries! I recommend: Bernie & Ernie - it's a look at a duo who made Tennessee a basketball powerhouse, but it's more a look at how completely different they are. Oh and racism. Holy poo poo racism. No Crossover - Speaking of racism here is the story of how in high school Allen Iverson was convicted and given a 15 year sentence for getting into a brawl and being locally famous and black. Once Brothers - Vlade Divac talks about his lost friendship with Petrovic and other Serbian players during the war in Yugoslavia.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2016 00:55
|
|
|
Im gonna admit that Michael Parks is an amazing actor and makes the first 1.5 or so acts or Tusk watchable but the rest of the film is so bad that it doesnt save it. It is bad. So bad. But not nearly as bad as Yoga Hosers.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2016 04:03
|
|
|
Wiggles Von Huggins posted:Im gonna admit that Michael Parks is an amazing actor and makes the first 1.5 or so acts or Tusk watchable but the rest of the film is so bad that it doesnt save it. It is bad. So bad. But not nearly as bad as Yoga Hosers. Why was tusk bad? Everyone says they don't like it and then it just drifts off into Kevin Smith hate stuff.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2016 04:34
|
|
|
My biggest problem with Tusk (that I can remember) was the first half. Justin Long is basically the Kevin Smith stand in and the bad guy was this stock devious genius. It's just lazy, boring writing. And putting a clip of him conceiving the movie on a podcast in the credits is about the stupidest thing I've seen a director do. (I wouldn't say it's anywhere close to the worst movie ever but the sudden shift from standard horror fare to absurd comedy was super jarring)
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2016 05:39
|
|
|
I'm enjoying Yoga Hosers so far. But I also like movies like Dorm Daze and Strange Brew so
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2016 06:02
|
|
|
Field Mousepad posted:Fair enough, I'll go first. It's been a minute since I've seen it but I'll go off the top of my head. Why Tusk Is Bad (Based on a Single Viewing in Theaters in 2014) Premise: A dude gets tortured and surgically grafted into a walrus body by a lunatic. Sounds orignal. Author Stand-In: Justin Long's character is a mustachio'd podcaster who works from home. His romantic partner is more attractive than him. His side-kick is an old best friend who relies on dumb humor and is probably on drugs. "Author Stand-In" as a concept is gets a lot of flack, especially if it's shallow and nothing is brought to the character to make him different/unique, because it's boring, lazy shallow writing. In this case, the differences are surface-only. Podcast: No one has a career in podcasting, unless they're a sound engineer or a producer at a podcasting network, and most of those are non-profit. Everyone else has real jobs and podcasts for publicity or fun. Marc Maron, Scott Aukerman, the people behind Serial, Bill Burr, etc. all have real jobs. We are in a world where a podcast that is a first-draft pun on "Nazi Party"/"Not-See Party" that is based in Justin Long's character's house is successful enough to be his main source of income, including traveling expenses. Set-Up: Justin Long's character is going to Canada to see "The Kill Bill Kid", a child who has severed his leg, so he may insult him on his podcast. He gets to Canada, and somehow realizes that he won't get to drive the Kill Bill Kid to suicide, because the kid already killed himself. He then finds a flyer offering a "Free lodgings and good stories", which is really loving Think about that: Justin Long's character bought a ticket to Canada to do a story on The Kill Bill Kid without doing research, like, where he lives, or if he's alive. If traveling expenses weren't an issue, why not just contact the Kill Bill Kid and fly him down to where, you know, you have all of your podcast equipment, studio, side-kick, and place to stay? Your goal is to just fly up to Canada and hope for the best? He didn't even get himself a hotel room for his trip. He just flew up to Canada for gently caress-all. Then he realizes, I think at a bar or by a Canadian Mountie, that the KBK died. Well I guess this random flyer with a too-good-to-be-true deal on it is the meal ticket. Characters: I can't remember any of the characters names. They are Wallace (get it, it sounds like Walrus. DO YOU GET IT?! WALRUS. WALLACE-WALRUS.), Teddy, Howard, Ally and Guy. (Can you guess who's who?) Horror movies don't have to adhere to the ideology of every character being likeable, but I am of the camp that thinks it doesn't hurt, unless it ties directly into the themes/ideas/actions of the movie. This is where things get hazy. Wallace (Justin Long; did you guess correctly?) is an rear end in a top hat. He's a failed comedian turned successful podcaster from cruel interviews. He regularly cheats on his attractive, loving supportive girlfriend. His best friend is actually just a sidekick he seems to tolerate. Over-all, nothing really likeable. For the second and third act, Wallace is trying to survive/escape/be human. So instead of building audience support for a flawed, but human character that ultimately pays off with tension growing from his survival, instead, we have an boring rear end in a top hat who's going to get mutilated, and who really cares? There are zero stakes. By the way, best-friend and girl-friend are having an affair. It doesn't really mean anything and has no baring on the plot. The intent seems to be sympathy, but really it shows that they are happier and better off without Wallace. Even during the ending, they now have an actual healthy relationship (more on that below). We do get Michael Parks reprising his role from Red State, but instead of talking about Jesus and God, he's talking about walruses constantly. He's a retired sailor who survived a shipwreck because a Walrus saved him. Who cares? He somehow can afford a giant house. He has medical supplies including drugs and surgical equipment, and somehow enough training to make a walrus suit out of human flesh that hasn't rotted or leathered. He's been abducting people for a while now by posting flyers, but police/detectives can't find the guy, and only manage to do so by asking Kevin Smith's daughter Harley Quinn. Pacing: This movie is an hour and forty-one minutes long. It is one of the few times Smith has attempted non-linear storytelling throughout the project (usually he sticks to flashbacks, or the story is A to B). Walrus suit (arguably the best part of the movie for many) doesn't show up until 57 minutes. He's there for two minutes, then we cut back to Best-friend/Girlfriend's investigation, where Hailey Joel Osmet's tiny face breaks into crying. Bring in Johnny Depp for a cameo. (Just so we're clear, we've had 20 minutes of set-up, 37 minutes of torture and flashbacks, Walrus-suit for 1.5 minutes, dialogue heavy scene, Walrus suit for 2 minutes, and then Johnny Depp). Johnny Depp: 1 hr 3 minutes in, we are introduced, via close-up and slow-pan out, to Johnny Depp in a fake mustache, cheap make-up and terrible accent. He stares into the camera and tells a story, only him talking, for almost 5 minutes. Cut to a scene of Johnny Depp and Michael Parks meeting and talking. Cut back to Johnny Depp talking again until an 1 hr 18 min. That's right, straight up 15 minutes of Johnny Depp talking on and on to a disinterested audience (Kevin Smith-ing it), right after the movie built up tension with the Walrus reveal. He is seriously the worst part of the movie, and I don't even blame him. His daughter wants to be an actress with Harley Quinn, and so he's gotta be the nice dad and help her out by being in Kevin's movie. Pacing (cont'd): 3 minutes of Michael Parks hanging out with the walrus. Consider that in less than twenty minutes Wallace Walrus is going to straight up kill Parks with his tusk, so why is he chilling and waiting now? After that, back to Johnny Depp, for 5 minutes, talking again, this time to his daughter and Harley Quinn and the girlfriend/bestfriend duo. Then more walrus and Parks, and there's a reveal that Parks at his walrus friend, which made him crazy, and Johnny Depp does stuff, the Walrus kills Parks, and no one cars. The Ending: Hailey Joel Osment and Girlfriend visit Wallace, who seems to be in an abandoned park or something, being treated like an actual walrus. They feed him fish, which he eats. Girlfriend, while her new and nice boyfriend holds her, screams that she still loves Wallace. I assume an awkward conversation followed that. Why didn't they try to get Wallace medical attention? Psychiatric help? Media attention? Why is he in an abandoned petting zoo, instead of a functional one? Why not kill him and put him out of his misery? The credits roll and we get to hear the formation of the movie idea via podcast, which is a surprise to no-one. The Good Things: Walrus suit, Michael Parks, even though he's the same character from Red State...Um... The movie doesn't look bad, and there's some attempts at style. Gore wasn't bad, there's effective gross-out moments. Overall, it's a mediocre movie that doesn't do anything original, even with it's absurd premise. Franchescanado fucked around with this message at 15:29 on Dec 22, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2016 15:19
|
|
|
^^^ edit: um yeah. much betterField Mousepad posted:Why was tusk bad? Everyone says they don't like it and then it just drifts off into Kevin Smith hate stuff. I can't believe you like this movie, bud, but...that's...ok. I dont hate Kevin Smith. I don't like Tusk because it is not funny, it is not scary/creepy, it is not interesting, and besides Michael Parks, no other actor is worth even looking at. How did you look at the walrus costume and the absurd (not in a good way) premise and not think you were wasting your time? It was like the lowest level juvenile effort from Kevin Smith (until I saw Yoga Hosers). I love bad movies, but this was the worst kind of bad movie. The boring, eye-rolling type. It was not even close to the worst movie ever though and neither is Yoga Hosers.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2016 15:27
|
|
|
Even if we ignore Franchescanado's very definitive and accurate review and say for the sake of argument that Tusk is the first good movie Smith has made in 15 years, it doesn't make him a good director. Clerks isn't even that good, its a solid debut by a first time director and it was impressive that Smith had the drive to get a movie made with no budget and a single set. Ok great, but taken on its own merits its not like anyone thought we had the next Orson Welles on our hands. He then had a string of four movies that are all somewhere between mediocre and decent, with none of them really holding up over time with the exception of possibly Dogma. He's never made a single movie that you can point to and say "This film is undeniable. If he never makes another good movie, he'll always have this accomplishment on his resume". If someone told me that they had never liked a single Kevin Smith movie, that would be a totally uncontroversial opinion.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2016 15:36
|
|
|
I just finished Goliath (Amazon Prime original) last night, and I have no idea how I feel about it. You can tell it is from David E. Kelley. He just took one of his network ideas and made it rated R. Also it felt like up until episode 7 he thought he was doing a 20+ episode season, and he just realized oh poo poo we only got one more episode to go. One of the most anti-climatic finales I have seen in awhile (the fact the great Billy McBride did nothing amazing is mind boggling after all the set-up. I still don't understand how they won the case. Despite knowing all the facts I thought they should of lost based on the trial. Also it had some real nice setups for certain characters (William Hurt especially), but they turned out to be a swing and a miss in the end. That said Billy Bob Thornton and most of the cast were great. Some of the characters really worked, and I can see a really good show in there.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2016 16:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 18:38 |
|
|
veni veni veni posted:Dogma was the film where it hit me that I didn't like Kevin Smith anymore. I couldn't wait to see it and was shocked at how bad it was, but assumed it was a fluke. Then I went back and watched mallrats and Clerks again and realized he was bad all along I was just 14 when those came out and they had lots of poop jokes. I had the same experience. I was right at that age where I was starting to absorb myriad philosophies and comparative religion studies and a satire of Roman Catholicism was extremely my poo poo. There's things I liked about it (Affleck, Damon, and Rickman) but I couldn't shake the sense I was watching rehearsal footage instead of a finished movie. It didn't help that Fiorentino was so obviously bored with the whole thing and even at the time a lot of the satire fell flat.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2016 18:57
|
|
