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Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:Wait, I feel like this question wasn't really resolved. Can police now legally murder unarmed people in custody in France? Bad translation, as already said.
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Dec 22, 2016 00:40
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Cat Mattress posted:Bad translation, as already said. My dear friend, shooting/murdering unarmed people is absolutely barbaric and I just couldn't imagine that France would make something like this legal. But I guess the year 2016 is not done yet with this gay earth.
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Dec 22, 2016 00:58
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Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:My dear friend, Yeah, unarmed people who have been warned three time to stop can already be legally shot by gendarmes but not by cops. Also a possible circumstance of people being warned to stop is them driving a truck towards people; but it'd be barbaric to stop them I suppose!
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Dec 22, 2016 01:03
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We need to bring back the original Gendarmes, mounted horse with full plate armor and long lances.
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Dec 22, 2016 01:10
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Cat Mattress posted:Yeah, unarmed people who have been warned three time to stop can already be legally shot by gendarmes but not by cops. Also a possible circumstance of people being warned to stop is them driving a truck towards people; but it'd be barbaric to stop them I suppose! Police using deadly force in self-defense or defense of others is legal in every country of the world. It's is the main reason that police even carries guns.
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Dec 22, 2016 01:10
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Doctor Malaver posted:Perhaps if you look at the entire spectrum but I'm talking about respectful (whatever that means these days), mainstream media. Yeah, the mainstream media was critical too.
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Dec 22, 2016 01:10
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MaxxBot posted:We need to bring back the original Gendarmes, mounted horse with full plate armor and long lances. I would fully support this policy.
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Dec 22, 2016 01:40
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DarkCrawler posted:Yeah, the mainstream media was critical too. I guess it varied from country to country.
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Dec 22, 2016 02:29
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Can someone give me the current rundown of the current state of Polish politics?
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Dec 22, 2016 05:46
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Grouchio posted:Can someone give me the current rundown of the current state of Polish politics? It's all hosed up, mate.
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Dec 22, 2016 06:01
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DarkCrawler posted:Ah yes the good old "you can't talk about the risks of the refugee crisis without being called a racist!"-myth when every major party and their leadership, all major news outlets, millions of people on daily basis, thousands of academics and studies have done exactly that. If you see that sentence either the person saying it has spent the last year and half in a bunker isolated completely or they are an actual racist mad about being called a racist.
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Dec 22, 2016 06:26
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Goa Tse-tung posted:It's all hosed up, mate.
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Dec 22, 2016 07:17
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Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:Wait, I feel like this question wasn't really resolved. Can police now legally murder unarmed people in custody in France? I would assume that after the riots, the terrorist attacks, cop cars being set on fire, and all the other Lebanon-like poo poo, a lot of French people are totally fed up and have a 'shoot to kill' attitude. I'm actually surprised it took this long. Not a positive evolution, but completely understandable.
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Dec 22, 2016 08:07
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That law was passed after cops started protesting in Paris and other cities, illegally in several instances (used their police cars to block some roads, brought their guns too). Not really a "will of the people" thing, although they'll no doubt have support in the general population. Edit: There are legitimate grievances like lack of funding and (going hand in hand) insufficient manpower. But those would take money and effort to fix and letting cops have more leeway to shoot people won't. Hollande being the lamest duck of the past 50 yers probably factors into it as well. Kassad fucked around with this message at 08:49 on Dec 22, 2016 |
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Dec 22, 2016 08:44
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Grouchio posted:Gonna need more elaboration. You should ask in the Eastern Europe thread.
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Dec 22, 2016 13:39
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Phlegmish posted:I would assume that after the riots, the terrorist attacks, cop cars being set on fire, and all the other Lebanon-like poo poo, a lot of French people are totally fed up and have a 'shoot to kill' attitude. I'm actually surprised it took this long. Not a positive evolution, but completely understandable. Lol at you describing pretty banal stuff as "Lebanon-like poo poo". Crime is still on a downward trend, terrorism is limited to a couple attacks a year, and social unrest can't compare to the mid-2000's. This measure is merely there to placate cops who feel like their power-tripping is jeopardized by excessive regulations on the use of force. They get pretty angry when the administration dares to investigate when someone dies in their custody or during a demonstration (even though the administration systematically ends up covering their asses). gently caress that noise.
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Dec 22, 2016 14:01
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Yeah. To reiterate: we're talking about the same police that scares non-white kids in the suburban projects badly enough for them to go hide in places like electrical substations (specifically: three kids. Only one came back out). Now they have more power to use their guns, what a great idea.
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Dec 22, 2016 14:08
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Hey you've got to give them something so they will still accept to work despite being at barely half the personnel they should be in order to do their job correctly.
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Dec 22, 2016 14:15
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It looks as if Monte Paschi will fail to secure enough capital and will be nationalized. Link I'm not quite sure what to expect from this - Italian bondholders (lots of average people) will take the hit, but the government is planning to use a fund to mitigate that. I suppose it's really bad news for the rest of Italian banks which will probably also require nationalization? This opinion piece suggests this process could still take quite some time. Mozi fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Dec 22, 2016 |
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Dec 22, 2016 17:05
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Manuel Valls. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6SUiS--6-Y
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Dec 22, 2016 17:32
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Mozi posted:It looks as if Monte Paschi will fail to secure enough capital and will be nationalized. Link Nationalizing the banks is the first and most important step on the road to utopia
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Dec 22, 2016 17:42
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Flowers For Algeria posted:Lol at you describing pretty banal stuff as "Lebanon-like poo poo". The fact that it's considered banal in France speaks volumes.
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Dec 22, 2016 17:48
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So the hard right turn in Europe can be ascribed to the lack of leftist Euroskepticism, right? I mean the fiscal issues with austerity and the inability to set a continental policy on refugees that actually works are pretty much intractable under the current system.
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Dec 22, 2016 17:56
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Fiction posted:So the hard right turn in Europe can be ascribed to the lack of leftist Euroskepticism, right? I mean the fiscal issues with austerity and the inability to set a continental policy on refugees that actually works are pretty much intractable under the current system. Leftists are plenty EU sceptic but hating immigrants and brown people is more sexy and easily explained then hating big banks, conglomerates, austerity and the globalist elite. Doctor Malaver posted:I guess it varied from country to country. As always Sweden was an outlier, I supposed. My brother is Swedish though and from what he tells me I am pretty sceptical. DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Dec 22, 2016 |
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Dec 22, 2016 18:20
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Fiction posted:So the hard right turn in Europe can be ascribed to the lack of leftist Euroskepticism, right? I mean the fiscal issues with austerity and the inability to set a continental policy on refugees that actually works are pretty much intractable under the current system.
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Dec 22, 2016 18:22
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DarkCrawler posted:Leftists are plenty EU sceptic but hating immigrants and brown people is more sexy and easily explained then hating big banks, conglomerates, austerity and the globalist elite. Beware, "globalist elite" is interpreted as dogwhistlese for "Jews". Also hating big banks and austerity doesn't mean anything when your average leftist politician goes from "mon ennemi, c'est la finance" to "mon ministre, c'est un banquier". People on the left do not trust leftist politicians to actually be leftists. People on the far right still trust their fascist politicians to actually be fascists, though.
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Dec 22, 2016 18:32
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Fiction posted:So the hard right turn in Europe can be ascribed to the lack of leftist Euroskepticism, right? I mean the fiscal issues with austerity and the inability to set a continental policy on refugees that actually works are pretty much intractable under the current system. AFAIK there is no absolute consensus about what the gently caress is going on right now. It's really complicated and reducing it to refugees or economic woes is way too simplistic. You gonna have to wait for the post-mortem in ~10 years to get a clear picture, I'm afraid.
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Dec 22, 2016 18:39
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DarkCrawler posted:Leftists are plenty EU sceptic but hating immigrants and brown people is more sexy and easily explained then hating big banks, conglomerates, austerity and the globalist elite. Plus, the far right does both, which is a more straightforward and easily digested attitude towards the various aspects of globalisation.
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Dec 22, 2016 18:43
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Cat Mattress posted:Beware, "globalist elite" is interpreted as dogwhistlese for "Jews". That's unsurprising because the far right do in fact use that exact term as an anti-Semitic dog whistle.
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Dec 22, 2016 18:49
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Cat Mattress posted:Beware, "globalist elite" is interpreted as dogwhistlese for "Jews". Oh nobody I've voted for in the left has ever gotten elected so I know that very well. Also I can't keep up with the Jewish dogwhistles anymore I thought the latest one was parentheses or something. loving Nazis (sorry "alt-right") should pick one and stick with it already. Phlegmish posted:Plus, the far right does both, which is a more straightforward and easily digested attitude towards the various aspects of globalisation. Except that for the most part it seems that the people heading far right are part of the elite and as soon as they get elected anywhere they start sucking that globalist dick..but again so does the left so you got a point!
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Dec 22, 2016 18:50
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DarkCrawler posted:Also I can't keep up with the Jewish dogwhistles anymore Can't keep up? Global Elite as a dogwhistle for Jews is like over 100 years old.
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Dec 22, 2016 20:19
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Fiction posted:So the hard right turn in Europe can be ascribed to the lack of leftist Euroskepticism, right? I mean the fiscal issues with austerity and the inability to set a continental policy on refugees that actually works are pretty much intractable under the current system. The finnish working class party switched to ID politics some years ago and it worked out real well for them until a literal toad wearing a skinsuit shouted "We love workers, also ignore the nazis in the party, no idea where they came from". At which point Social Democrats cratered to tiny party and True Finns shot to second biggest. I honestly believe that former working parties abandonment of working class in favour of ID politics and neo-liberalism is the reason for surge of fascist parties in Europe, because the populist parties at least pretend to give a poo poo and people want to be represented.
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Dec 22, 2016 20:21
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throw to first drat IT posted:The finnish working class party switched to ID politics some years ago and it worked out real well for them until a literal toad wearing a skinsuit shout "We love workers, also ignore the nazis in the party, no idea where they came from". At which point Social Democrats cratered to tiny party and True Finns shot to second biggest. Turns out they didn't love workers though and according to opinion polls the "working class party" is again the most popular one. Also "identity politics" are practiced by literally every party ever, none more overtly then the populist ones...
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Dec 22, 2016 20:23
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throw to first drat IT posted:The finnish working class party switched to ID politics some years ago and it worked out real well for them until a literal toad wearing a skinsuit shouted "We love workers, also ignore the nazis in the party, no idea where they came from". At which point Social Democrats cratered to tiny party and True Finns shot to second biggest. Sounds to me like the problem is not that they engaged in identity politics but that you think they picked the wrong identity.
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Dec 22, 2016 20:24
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throw to first drat IT posted:The finnish working class party switched to ID politics some years ago and it worked out real well for them until a literal toad wearing a skinsuit shouted "We love workers, also ignore the nazis in the party, no idea where they came from". At which point Social Democrats cratered to tiny party and True Finns shot to second biggest. First of all your memory of recent finnish political history is apparently on the level of a goldfish, and secondly the rear end Finns have funnily enough cratered right back to tiny babby party level in popular support after they decided to join a Bourgie government while the Social Democrats are tied as the most popular party. Funny how that works out. It's almost like the far right are a bunch of two-bit liars enabled by the failure of neoliberalism, rather than some bizarre reaction against ID politics, whatever you even mean with that.
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Dec 22, 2016 20:38
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DarkCrawler posted:Turns out they didn't love workers though and according to opinion polls the "working class party" is again the most popular one. Cerebral Bore posted:First of all your memory of recent finnish political history is apparently on the level of a goldfish, and secondly the rear end Finns have funnily enough cratered right back to tiny babby party level in popular support after they decided to join a Bourgie government while the Social Democrats are tied as the most popular party. Largest predicted party is Not Decideds. Last time they went massively for True Finns, probably because they hadn't soiled themselves in government. But there's probably very little reason to assume that they will decide to go to SDP this time, since they already dropped the party once and SDP's response was to write press release that everything is fine and nothing should change. Meanwhile their voting block is literally dying of old age because sub-30 years olds don't vote for them. SDP's victory depends on their voters being motivated enough to go and vote in equal or higher numbers than Keks and Cocks, and convincing greater amounts of Undecideds to vote for them than for either of the two other big parties. Neither is going to happen under Rinne. And the assumption that people don't vote Finns again is based on assumption that voters have permanently lost faith with them. But since SDP's solution to voters dropping the party like dirty sock was to just wag their finger, tut tut and keep offering the same old deal on basis that voters don't have better choice to vote for anyway, all it takes is something to convince the voters that this time it will be different and they will still vote for Finns. Either Soini manages to look professional for a moment, possibly with help of some radical surgery, or he gets kicked to curb and something else seizing the throne could do it. Feel free to welcome Prime Minister Halla-aho after that. Also, not sure why you just repeated what I said but yes, far-right's rise is because of left's abandonment of working class. Far-right parties lying probably doesn't ultimately hurt them much because it certainly hasn't hurt other parties.
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Dec 22, 2016 21:21
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throw to first drat IT posted:In phone polls. I'm represented there too, except I probably don't bother to vote for anyone next time because it's looking to be even bigger waste of time than voting for Pirates last time was. I think this time I'm going to vote for the commies. If I got to be a capitalist drone at least I got a fighting chance not to be against the wall some day I guess. I ain't going to be living here for long anyway and well all be glorious subjects of the Greater Chinese Communist Party when I am retired anyway. There is a certain nostalgia to it, though I was only a fetus when the Wall fell. The problem is, am I going to vote for the useless Marxists, useless Marxist-Leninists, useless vaguely defined labor-socialists?
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Dec 22, 2016 21:48
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Vote for the animal rights guys, their ideas are more threatening and sanguine than those corpse-parties, and about as likely to get someone elected.
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Dec 22, 2016 21:57
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If Väyrynen gets his party up, I'm voting for him.
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Dec 22, 2016 22:02
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Cerebral Bore posted:It's almost like the far right are a bunch of two-bit liars enabled by the failure of neoliberalism The problem is to get the non-fascist parties to understand that instead of continuing to worship at the altar of tax cuts, deregulation and austerity.
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Dec 23, 2016 00:01
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