Lawyer & Law School Megathread #12: Started Out Barrister, Ended Up Barista

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > Lawyer & Law School Megathread #12: Started Out Barrister, Ended Up Barista

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mastershakeman: Oct 28, 2008; by vyelkin

WhiskeyJuvenile posted:

just smoke weed like a normal person

too bad that half of employers still do drug tests. it's absurd, why did we pay 6 figures for a degree if we can't consume drugs at will

# ? Dec 21, 2016 14:44

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# ? May 19, 2024 11:04

sullat: Jan 9, 2012

mastershakeman posted:

too bad that half of employers still do drug tests. it's absurd, why did we pay 6 figures for a degree if we can't consume drugs at will

You know who doesn't do drug tests? The feds. Well, for now I suppose. Be a good time to start applying, too, if Trump's stupid hiring freeze goes into effect, you may not have another chance in a while.

# ? Dec 21, 2016 16:10

TheMadMilkman: Dec 10, 2007

sullat posted:

You know who doesn't do drug tests? The feds. Well, for now I suppose. Be a good time to start applying, too, if Trump's stupid hiring freeze goes into effect, you may not have another chance in a while.

Eh, the hiring freeze just changes how new positions get described.

For example, my agency is really short on software devs and other IT staff. Instead of saying that we need to hire more people to cover the needs of the various business units, the execs now say that we need to hire more people to cover cybersecurity threats from rogue nations.

I have every confidence that we will get to hire as many people as we want.

# ? Dec 21, 2016 16:16

Phil Moscowitz: Feb 19, 2007; If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!

"We are instituting a hiring freeze on all federal positions...except defense, public health, and public safety (i.e. 95% of federal jobs)"

# ? Dec 21, 2016 16:22

Tokelau All Star: Feb 23, 2008; THE TAXES! THE FINGER THING MEANS THE TAXES!

echopapa posted:

You’re totally sure you don’t want to move to a Pacific island that is part of the United States? Abugadu or I could make that happen.

His island has snakes. On the other hand, his island also has a good burrito place, so I think he wins.

My island has a Costco (that is 75 miles away).

# ? Dec 21, 2016 18:21

sullat: Jan 9, 2012

TheMadMilkman posted:

Eh, the hiring freeze just changes how new positions get described.

For example, my agency is really short on software devs and other IT staff. Instead of saying that we need to hire more people to cover the needs of the various business units, the execs now say that we need to hire more people to cover cybersecurity threats from rogue nations.

I have every confidence that we will get to hire as many people as we want.

Our mutual agency has had a rough couple of years, yes we may be able to hire IT, but we haven't been able to hire very many ROs or RAs for a while. Last year I think they were able to hire 700 by squeezing the budget, but I can't imagine collection is going to be a priority under the new administration.

# ? Dec 21, 2016 18:26

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Tokelau All Star posted:

My island has a Costco (that is 75 miles away).

Doesn't count because you guys actually get to vote in presidental elections.

# ? Dec 21, 2016 21:33

Arcturas: Mar 30, 2011

Green Crayons posted:

aren't you in litigation?

I don't know how it works on the corporate side of things, but I can definitely see, have definitely seen, the litigation equivalent of this bullshit:

and actively maneuver myself to avoid it as much as possible because it would kill me in 2 years, not 20

I admit that I have the advantage of being a white male in a larger firm of a secondary market, so I definitely have more agency over what my future holds more than others, but just avoid avoid avoid as much as possible

Green Crayons posted:

aren't you in litigation?

I don't know how it works on the corporate side of things, but I can definitely see, have definitely seen, the litigation equivalent of this bullshit:

and actively maneuver myself to avoid it as much as possible because it would kill me in 2 years, not 20

I admit that I have the advantage of being a white male in a larger firm of a secondary market, so I definitely have more agency over what my future holds more than others, but just avoid avoid avoid as much as possible

Yeah, I'm a third year associate in litigation. No business development expectations yet but they are definitely on their way.

# ? Dec 21, 2016 21:49

G-Mawwwwwww: Jan 31, 2003; My LPth are Hot Garbage; Biscuit Hider

This week I've been paid in hugs, cookies, and a fruitcake.

FML.

# ? Dec 21, 2016 23:34

algebra testes: Mar 5, 2011; Lipstick Apathy

CaptainScraps posted:

This week I've been paid in hugs, cookies, and a fruitcake.

FML.

Well you have to eat, right?

Or do you exist on the blood of virgins?

# ? Dec 21, 2016 23:36

Green Crayons: Apr 2, 2009

Arcturas posted:

Yeah, I'm a third year associate in litigation. No business development expectations yet but they are definitely on their way.

so, like, develop your business away from that poo poo you don't like (e.g., cozy up to partners/senior associates who are doing the business you do like)

SlyFrog has the major problem of doing a job he absolutely hates. assuming there are types of litigation you like, stick with and hone in on them. avoid his fate. (get well SlyFrog.)

# ? Dec 22, 2016 03:43

yronic heroism: Oct 31, 2008

nm posted:

Are there no state jobs in Minnesota?
I know the pay is poo poo in MN, but California employs literally thousands of transactional lawyers who all go home at 5 and forget they have a job.

All MN state jobs are law clerks and part time PDs. But the good news is there are tons of them and getting an interview is pretty easy (for you and the 16 other interviewees... seriously, hiring managers here can't seem to find a way to set a cutoff).

yronic heroism fucked around with this message at 05:47 on Dec 22, 2016

# ? Dec 22, 2016 05:45

MoFauxHawk: Jan 1, 2007; Mickey Mouse copyright
Walt Gisnep

SlyFrog posted:

They do have state jobs, but not so many as I think. And the issue that does not resolve for me is that I'm very afraid I could end up in that state job wanting to blow my brains out because it's the same paperwork, same job, just less ability to leave (because you're not a law firm partner). My problem is not really being overworked. I'm not sure I could forget I have a job.

I have thought about the greatly reduced pay route for something with "less stress." My fear is that I would still hate it, but just be more captive to the job when I'm there (harder to keep people off your back when you're literally in the building and captive to your client, and when it does not cost them anything extra to bug you, because you're not billing them by the hour).

I think a new job might help a lot. There's something specific about the billable hour system that's especially anxiety-inducing, I think. And I think you might be surprised how much freedom you have to get up and take long breaks at state and corporate jobs.

# ? Dec 22, 2016 06:46

Rolled Cabbage: Sep 3, 2006

How common is it to bump someone who's part of a criminal appeal team because they knew the original judge?

I live in the area so of course I know the judge (and the prosecution and defense teams and the usher and the police and the guards etc. etc.) but I thought that was pretty normal?

What I don't know is the guy or anyone else involved.

# ? Dec 22, 2016 10:26

Treemeister: Oct 15, 2006; HAY GUYS

Reading this thread always scares the poo poo out of me, because I feel like I'm always two years from hating myself and being a lawyer. But today is the first day of thirteen days out of the office, and I'm pretty happy that I didn't make the jump from government to a private firm six months or so ago. I tried way too many cases this year and I am probably going to try too many next year, but I don't hate going into work and trials are still interesting.

I only wish good things for all of you internet law goons in the new year. Please don't work on Christmas.

# ? Dec 22, 2016 15:44

mastershakeman: Oct 28, 2008; by vyelkin

People are really mad at the doc review facility that they can't work dec 24-26th

# ? Dec 22, 2016 16:31

Phil Moscowitz: Feb 19, 2007; If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!

Lol@ the last two posts together

# ? Dec 22, 2016 16:45

nutri_void: Apr 18, 2015; I shall devour your soul.; Grimey Drawer

Treemeister posted:

I only wish good things for all of you internet law goons in the new year. Please don't work on Christmas.

There's plenty of people who have no job and thus won't work on Christmas

# ? Dec 22, 2016 17:02

Captain Splashback: Jan 1, 2007; BY APPOINTMENT TO HER MAJESTY
QUEEN ELIZABETH II
SPLASHBACK HOLDINGS LTD
PUCKINS AND PRINTERS PURVEYORS

I've just begun reading my LLB in England as of October, and am originally from Canada. Are there any other Canadian law students in this thread, past or present, that have also studied law in the UK that would care to discuss their experiences? I've just completed my first term and am happy to discuss it. I'm looking to get a sense of what you CAN-UK law goons are up to.

I'm not overwhelmingly knowledgeable about job prospects in either country, though I'm aware that making ends meet as a lawyer ~~can be~~ is difficult in both countries without making good connections, and even then I'm aware of the work one needs to put in for even a half-chance of making a living as a lawyer. I've taken this degree because law is the only thing I want to study, it's what I've been working towards for the past six years' straight, I was able to get grants and loans to study, and I am willing to use the degree, once I have it, to do whatever's necessary to pay off my student loans and otherwise make ends meet, even if that means I won't be practicing as a lawyer. That said, I will admit that I do have the luck of some excellent law contacts in Canada through my parents' business, and am going to be meeting several of them over the Christmas break to discuss the legal profession and hopefully to obtain an internship over the Easter and summer breaks. One of these contacts, by the way, also completed her LLB in the UK, and has agreed to meet with me in the New Year, so it'll be interesting to find out what she has to say.

Of course I'd love to work as a lawyer in either Canada, the UK, or elsewhere in the Commonwealth, but I accept I might not be in control of that outcome, even though I'm doing everything I can to bulk-up my CV through school. Part of me fantasizes about staying in the UK for a while after I graduate to become a solicitor or a barrister and use whatever free time I've got to study some European languages�an easier task because France, for example, is just across the channel and I can practice for an entire weekend. Whether I can align the stars toward that goal, or whether I actually decide to do that is still not set in stone yet. Ultimately, I'm just riding the tide.

Feel free to weigh in my learned/learning friends.

# ? Dec 22, 2016 17:49

LeschNyhan: Sep 2, 2006

Captain Splashback posted:

I've just begun reading my LLB in England as of October, and am originally from Canada. Are there any other Canadian law students in this thread, past or present, that have also studied law in the UK that would care to discuss their experiences? I've just completed my first term and am happy to discuss it. I'm looking to get a sense of what you CAN-UK law goons are up to.

Always wanted to be a lawyer, took on large student debt, no idea about job prospects, might maybe get an internship but no solid commitment for articles - bingo!

No but seriously why didn't you just go to a Canadian school where you can build off your existing network and live at home to save money?

Edit: also, what school? Better be Oxbridge.

LeschNyhan fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Dec 22, 2016

# ? Dec 22, 2016 21:59

mastershakeman: Oct 28, 2008; by vyelkin

Captain Splashback posted:

I've just begun reading my LLB in England as of October, and am originally from Canada. Are there any other Canadian law students in this thread, past or present, that have also studied law in the UK that would care to discuss their experiences? I've just completed my first term and am happy to discuss it. I'm looking to get a sense of what you CAN-UK law goons are up to.

I'm not overwhelmingly knowledgeable about job prospects in either country, though I'm aware that making ends meet as a lawyer ~~can be~~ is difficult in both countries without making good connections, and even then I'm aware of the work one needs to put in for even a half-chance of making a living as a lawyer. I've taken this degree because law is the only thing I want to study, it's what I've been working towards for the past six years' straight, I was able to get grants and loans to study, and I am willing to use the degree, once I have it, to do whatever's necessary to pay off my student loans and otherwise make ends meet, even if that means I won't be practicing as a lawyer. That said, I will admit that I do have the luck of some excellent law contacts in Canada through my parents' business, and am going to be meeting several of them over the Christmas break to discuss the legal profession and hopefully to obtain an internship over the Easter and summer breaks. One of these contacts, by the way, also completed her LLB in the UK, and has agreed to meet with me in the New Year, so it'll be interesting to find out what she has to say.

Of course I'd love to work as a lawyer in either Canada, the UK, or elsewhere in the Commonwealth, but I accept I might not be in control of that outcome, even though I'm doing everything I can to bulk-up my CV through school. Part of me fantasizes about staying in the UK for a while after I graduate to become a solicitor or a barrister and use whatever free time I've got to study some European languages�an easier task because France, for example, is just across the channel and I can practice for an entire weekend. Whether I can align the stars toward that goal, or whether I actually decide to do that is still not set in stone yet. Ultimately, I'm just riding the tide.

Feel free to weigh in my learned/learning friends.

can you skip out on your debt by fleeing the country? this is a serious question

# ? Dec 22, 2016 22:35

MoFauxHawk: Jan 1, 2007; Mickey Mouse copyright
Walt Gisnep

mastershakeman posted:

People are really mad at the doc review facility that they can't work dec 24-26th

As a Jew, I would be mad too. Great opportunity to work long days without social FOMO.

# ? Dec 23, 2016 00:04

mastershakeman: Oct 28, 2008; by vyelkin

MoFauxHawk posted:

As a Jew, I would be mad too. Great opportunity to work long days without social FOMO.

Yeah I actually brought this up because I've seen it before where people are bored as gently caress on 12/25 and almost everything is closed so why not come to the office with no one bothering you and get some cash

# ? Dec 23, 2016 00:19

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

I have literally nver gone to church and I celebrate christmas because I get a day off and get to eat prime rib and drink egg nog.
I'd celebrate any holiday with those features.

# ? Dec 23, 2016 00:26

WhiskeyJuvenile: Feb 15, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo

I'm probably done with my self-imposed work exile on Christmas; might go back to work for the OT

# ? Dec 23, 2016 01:29

WhiskeyJuvenile: Feb 15, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo

Thanks, Obama, for giving federal employees paid parental leave btw

NOT

# ? Dec 23, 2016 01:30

Mr. Nice!: Oct 13, 2005; c-spam cannot afford

WhiskeyJuvenile posted:

Thanks, Obama, for giving federal employees paid parental leave btw

NOT

Not like you'd have it after next month anyways.

# ? Dec 23, 2016 01:40

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

I am not working from noon tommorow to 1/3/17 and only have to use 20 hours of leave to do it.
Also, I have ensured that I don't even know how to check my email when out of the office (we have webmail, I don't know the url).

I already set emails to my clients telling them I'm loving off and if they're not loving off too, they wish me a happy holiday rather than rage at me.

My job rules.

# ? Dec 23, 2016 01:40

sullat: Jan 9, 2012

Mr. Nice! posted:

Not like you'd have it after next month anyways.

Could have used it last year, though.

# ? Dec 23, 2016 01:43

Phil Moscowitz: Feb 19, 2007; If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!

I do what I want when I want, drink all day Tuesday, have martini lunch on Wednesday, talk distribution on Thursday, we take the firm to lunch on Friday, it's good to have your own clients :shrug:

Phil Moscowitz fucked around with this message at 02:02 on Dec 23, 2016

# ? Dec 23, 2016 01:58

WhiskeyJuvenile: Feb 15, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo

Mr. Nice! posted:

Not like you'd have it after next month anyways.

joke's on you I'd be done with leave by then

# ? Dec 23, 2016 03:21

Jean-Paul Shartre: Jan 16, 2015; this sentence no verb

Hello from the office, law goons! Go to law school, get a job, work Friday the 23rd since you have a NYE closing!

# ? Dec 23, 2016 17:33

Newfie: Oct 8, 2013; 10 years of oil boom and 20 billion dollars cash, all I got was a case of beer, a pack of smokes, and 14% unemployment.
Thanks, Danny.

Captain Splashback posted:

I've just begun reading my LLB in England as of October, and am originally from Canada. Are there any other Canadian law students in this thread, past or present, that have also studied law in the UK that would care to discuss their experiences? I've just completed my first term and am happy to discuss it. I'm looking to get a sense of what you CAN-UK law goons are up to.

I'm not overwhelmingly knowledgeable about job prospects in either country, though I'm aware that making ends meet as a lawyer ~~can be~~ is difficult in both countries without making good connections, and even then I'm aware of the work one needs to put in for even a half-chance of making a living as a lawyer. I've taken this degree because law is the only thing I want to study, it's what I've been working towards for the past six years' straight, I was able to get grants and loans to study, and I am willing to use the degree, once I have it, to do whatever's necessary to pay off my student loans and otherwise make ends meet, even if that means I won't be practicing as a lawyer. That said, I will admit that I do have the luck of some excellent law contacts in Canada through my parents' business, and am going to be meeting several of them over the Christmas break to discuss the legal profession and hopefully to obtain an internship over the Easter and summer breaks. One of these contacts, by the way, also completed her LLB in the UK, and has agreed to meet with me in the New Year, so it'll be interesting to find out what she has to say.

Of course I'd love to work as a lawyer in either Canada, the UK, or elsewhere in the Commonwealth, but I accept I might not be in control of that outcome, even though I'm doing everything I can to bulk-up my CV through school. Part of me fantasizes about staying in the UK for a while after I graduate to become a solicitor or a barrister and use whatever free time I've got to study some European languages–an easier task because France, for example, is just across the channel and I can practice for an entire weekend. Whether I can align the stars toward that goal, or whether I actually decide to do that is still not set in stone yet. Ultimately, I'm just riding the tide.

Feel free to weigh in my learned/learning friends.

My firm just hired someone who was top 10 at queen mary and wanted to come back to Canada to work, so I guess there is some hope? Just remember you will have almost a full year of transition time you have to work with a firm, and then write an exam or two in Toronto over the summer, before you have to do your full year of articling, then do the bar course.

JohnCompany posted:

Hello from the office, law goons! Go to law school, get a job, work Friday the 23rd since you have a NYE closing!

I'm writing the last bit for a moot draft. Go to law school, get mad at the kid working the Starbucks drive through because they reminded you it was Christmas and you haven't seen or talked to any of your loved ones in over three weeks.

# ? Dec 23, 2016 17:51

G-Mawwwwwww: Jan 31, 2003; My LPth are Hot Garbage; Biscuit Hider

JohnCompany posted:

Hello from the office, law goons! Go to law school, get a job, work Friday the 23rd since you have a NYE closing!

Hi! I'm here too. Because I don't want to eat cat food. And my clients, most of whom who love me, are still loving scumbags.

# ? Dec 23, 2016 18:01

Roger_Mudd: Jul 18, 2003; Buglord

LOL if you don't have strep throat and can get out of bed today. Otherwise I'd be in the office complaining about how much coal Bob Cratchit (my associate) is using to heat the office.

# ? Dec 23, 2016 18:06

Mr. Nice!: Oct 13, 2005; c-spam cannot afford

I'll be working today but it'll be full of mirth, booze, and tacos instead of depression, booze, and tacos like you guys.

# ? Dec 23, 2016 18:52

The Dagda: Nov 22, 2005

I'm working but it's because my office is closed for a straight week starting Monday and I didn't feel like using one of my 20 annual vacation days today.

# ? Dec 23, 2016 19:26

Popero: Apr 17, 2001; .406/.553/.735

Dispositive motion deadline today so I'm working, probably late

# ? Dec 23, 2016 19:44

Tokelau All Star: Feb 23, 2008; THE TAXES! THE FINGER THING MEANS THE TAXES!

Christmas work crew high five!

# ? Dec 23, 2016 20:07

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# ? May 19, 2024 11:04

Nichol: May 18, 2004; Sly Dog

ODB started things off right!

Now if only there wasn't a giant asterisk re: me getting to draft first :/

# ? Dec 23, 2016 20:34

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > Lawyer & Law School Megathread #12: Started Out Barrister, Ended Up Barista

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