John Murdoch posted:
They made the readouts more extreme on both sides of the cutpoint, which is now a big red line. You don't have to completely solve the puzzle to reduce the set of options to 2 or three engines at most. Even identifying one of them massively reduces the set of options. People figured out the pressure conversion (for which you are literally given the multiplier ingame) within 3 days of launch. All of that said, I was talking about the fact that they lightened the fusion engine, which makes the hardest part of that day trivial. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Dec 21, 2016 |
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Dec 21, 2016 19:45
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These are both pretty disingenuous things to say, Vox. The puzzle isn't completely opaque if you can find all the relevant pieces of information, and can parse the whiteboards, but the average player is also forced to juggle all of that while also fighting off the cops, another thing pubbies are notoriously bad at. It can also be sabotaged if someone breaks the monitor with the pressure readout, or if a pubbie follows their pubbie instincts and starts mindlessly bagging up the engines. They did also make that segment a tiny bit more complicated by making the breaker boxes cut power to the basement.
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Wastrel_ posted:Meth helper mod fixes that, but personally I just listen for Bain to repeat the ingredient twice before adding it. As far as using RNG to gently caress players over, that's far from the worst example in the game. Add achievements to the RNG bullshit list. Leser Example: Guessing Game Worst Example: Murphy's Law
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Dec 21, 2016 20:07
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Discendo Vox posted:You don't have to completely solve the puzzle to reduce the set of options to 2 or three engines at most. Even identifying one of them massively reduces the set of options. People figured out the pressure conversion (for which you are literally given the multiplier ingame) within 3 days of launch. That is true, but there's a difference between "the puzzle is unnecessary" (aka have fun doing Doctor Miserable) and "you don't have to solve the entire puzzle to have a decent shot at it". Any two clues combined will put you in a pretty good spot, but there are single clues that will still leave you with a cumbersome number of engines to deal with. The pressure conversion thing is just silly because it's basically expecting the player to whip out a calculator in the middle of cop shoot or to make an educated guess regarding the pressure. My overall point (actually originally Merc's point) is that the puzzle isn't totally unfair or unsolveable, but it's a complete genre shift from cop shoot to Myst with Cloakers, and I really wouldn't expect the majority of the playerbase to either be into that or be able to deal with that unless they were prepared for it. John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Dec 21, 2016 |
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Dec 21, 2016 20:10
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Fix the concept by having a "quick test" button next to the machines. If it's the correct one, you'll get like a ding noise. If it's close (like it can be boiled down as one of two or three correct choices) you'll get a "that's not it" sort of feedback. If the machine is like a super-wrong "Why would you think it's this one" it'll blow up like the meth lab. I always hate for it to sound like I'm down on the game. I really still love this hot beautiful mess, but I'm looking to the future as not much else that Overkill's working on has my attention (and yes, even I'm not that interested in WW2 Raid after seeing some of the gameplay footage). Plan Z fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Dec 21, 2016 |
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Dec 21, 2016 20:24
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They made the bag lighter? Yeah, that makes that heist a lot easier. Especially at launch when almost nothing had 40 damage crawling out of the mansion to the hill while under fire from a half dozen cops and at least three snipers was brutal, and wiped more than one attempt. And that was pro only originally.
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Dec 21, 2016 20:39
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The genre of the game isn't cop shoot. It was, and is, about completing objectives. We've been here before, it's how we got the current thread title. Ballparking the conversion is easy, and all it takes, and even before the changes there was an extra-thick black line on the gauge telling you where it is.
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Dec 21, 2016 20:49
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You're saying Payday 2 isn't a shooter. And that it isn't primarily (if not singularly) played by shooter fans.  The whole reason why we're talking about this is because there's certainly a better middle ground between "wait for arbitrary timer and then loot pops out" and "convert between bar and psi". I probably wouldn't be nearly so down on the puzzle's approachableness if Day 2 was a proper stealth heist. Those seem to be a better place for more involved puzzles (see also: Election Day 1).Also, obligatory: 
John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Dec 21, 2016 |
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Dec 21, 2016 20:49
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Wastrel_ posted:Yes, they should not be able to destroy thrown grenades by shooting. It's total bullshit, but grenades are crap anyway if you have either molotov cocktails (BBQ pack) or any of the grenade launchers. It's more uncommon, but grenade launcher grenades can also be shot out of the air. A hard lesson I learned trying to use the Little Friend in Mayhem Rats.
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Dec 21, 2016 20:50
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Looks like there is something screwy that happens when you swansong and inject together, looping I NEED A MEDIC BAG. But with a hardcap on damage taken, it does seem to be a lot more bad for one down.
Crabtree fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Dec 22, 2016 |
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Dec 21, 2016 21:21
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Cloaker in the Myst indeed.
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Dec 22, 2016 00:43
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What's a good secondary to take down those mf'ing truck turrets with? I usually go with the IZHMA for primary, so having something explosive to knock dozer faceplates off would be nice too.
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Dec 22, 2016 01:23
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HE Judge. 
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Dec 22, 2016 02:05
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The RPG is decent, and so are any of the grenade launchers. If we're reminiscing about how the game used to be much more poo poo: Train Heist as a compulsory Day 2 if you found the plans on any Transport heist, without which you wouldn't get any XP or cash. With 40 bags of ammo to carry to the boat - and literally carry, because throwing them from height would make them explode. On the bright side, those were the days when you got something like 50,000 XP even for failing. So one method of levelling up through infamy levels was to repeatedly play the heist and commit suicide at the start. Fun!
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Dec 22, 2016 02:26
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I was wondering how someone with 1700 hours in this game couldn't find the computer on big bank but it's a lot clearer now. That's an awful levelling strategy - a good idea to make you hate the game, though.
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Dec 22, 2016 02:33
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So, trip report on the Lab Rats parkour trick: it works really dang well, better than I'd hoped. We cleared it in one attempt and it wasn't even very difficult.Soup du Journey posted:What's a good secondary to take down those mf'ing truck turrets with? I usually go with the IZHMA for primary, so having something explosive to knock dozer faceplates off would be nice too. Explosive ammo absolutely destroys the shields (7x multiplier), but for the final part where you are actually taking out the sentry itself, any midlevel high damage AR will do, if you aim at the lens(100x multiplier). I'm not confident the long guide is entirely accurate in how it's currently describing turret damage. There's an upper bound damage clamp which makes weapons like the rocket launchers really ammo inefficient on it.
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Dec 22, 2016 02:40
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John Murdoch posted:You're saying Payday 2 isn't a shooter. And that it isn't primarily (if not singularly) played by shooter fans. This is a good post.  I remember years ago now, someone - Brick? - said people would still love Payday 2 if it were just clicking heads in a featureless white cube listening to a Viklund song. I think this was the time Hotline came out so everyone pretty much agreed that listening to Evil Eye for half an hour was a solid life choice. It's obviously a shooter. As an example, Unreal Tournament does not change genres when you switch from a TDM to a CTF server. Objectives change how, where, and when you interact with shooting - they provide variety and concrete stages of progress from starting and then finishing a heist. They are not the genre, they're a mechanical tool that exists within the genre. Plan Z posted:I always hate for it to sound like I'm down on the game. I really still love this hot beautiful mess, but I'm looking to the future as not much else that Overkill's working on has my attention (and yes, even I'm not that interested in WW2 Raid after seeing some of the gameplay footage). I'm with you. I've gotten an incredible value for my money and time out of this game, but there's a limit to how long anything can hold your attention. I think the steady accretion of changes is catching up to Overkill and I don't think they have a clear plan on what to keep, what to change, and what to accept as something that has to live in Payday 2 but to change in Payday 3. Overall, they've hit more often than they've missed - the years-long success of Payday 2 is testament to that - but that can't last forever and I don't think it is anymore. I think Jules is a symptom of not having a clear plan on how to extend from here, because his plan is poo poo. I could be wrong (wilko feel free to PM me insulting things) but that's how it appears from the outside perspective. There's still a lot of fun to be had, but at a certain point you've seen and done it all. A lot. And then the frustrating things are a lot harder to ignore. Psion fucked around with this message at 02:59 on Dec 22, 2016 |
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Dec 22, 2016 02:53
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Psion posted:I remember years ago now, someone - Brick? - said people would still love Payday 2 if it were just clicking heads in a featureless white cube listening to a Viklund song. I think this was the time Hotline came out so everyone pretty much agreed that listening to Evil Eye for half an hour was a solid life choice. It's obviously a shooter. As an example, Unreal Tournament does not change genres when you switch from a TDM to a CTF server. Objectives change how, where, and when you interact with shooting - they provide variety and concrete stages of progress from starting and then finishing a heist. They are not the genre, they're a mechanical tool that exists within the genre. I've certainly said that a number of times over the years, though not in a strictly positive way.
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Dec 22, 2016 03:10
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Psion posted:I was wondering how someone with 1700 hours in this game couldn't find the computer on big bank but it's a lot clearer now. That's an awful levelling strategy - a good idea to make you hate the game, though. I didn't use it! Mainly because, like you say, it sounded like an incredibly lovely and pointless way to level up. I played lots of Rats and also other heists, got a couple infamy levels then went off the game for a year. When I came back, there was the Spring Break event with extra XP, and Hoxton Breakout was already around, so levelling up was much easier. I'm just really, really poo poo at detecting where the beep is coming from. I'm quite a good player otherwise, I swear it. 
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Dec 22, 2016 03:25
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Discendo Vox posted:So, trip report on the Lab Rats parkour trick: it works really dang well, better than I'd hoped. We cleared it in one attempt and it wasn't even very difficult. How do shotgun pellets interact with the exposed lens? Same way they do with exposed dozers? I feel like I've put a ton of shells into the lens without anything happening
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Dec 22, 2016 14:16
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I just did "I Will Pass Through Walls" (In the Shadow Raid job, secure at least 6 bags of loot and without killing anyone.) on OD because that is phrased so poorly. Somehow I got 17 bags of loot without killing anyone, and did it under half an hour  I think I have a problem...
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Dec 22, 2016 17:09
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Crabtree posted:Looks like there is something screwy that happens when you swansong and inject together, looping I NEED A MEDIC BAG. But with a hardcap on damage taken, it does seem to be a lot more bad for one down. Didn't occur to you to maybe, I don't know, link to the timestamp where this happens instead of an entire 10 minute video? (9m42s)
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Dec 22, 2016 22:00
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Concordat posted:Didn't occur to you to maybe, I don't know, link to the timestamp where this happens instead of an entire 10 minute video? (9m42s) Thought I got it at the certain time, sorry dude.
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Dec 22, 2016 23:46
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:I just did "I Will Pass Through Walls" (In the Shadow Raid job, secure at least 6 bags of loot and without killing anyone.) on OD because that is phrased so poorly. Somehow I got 17 bags of loot without killing anyone, and did it under half an hour We had an incredible run of Shadow Raid a bit ago, effortless really, that would have gotten every achievement but the overkill pack weapons one. It's remarkable what time and knowledge will do to a heist.
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Dec 23, 2016 00:00
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https://twitter.com/EricEtebari/status/812023523719856128 I love this bromance
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Dec 23, 2016 01:56
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Discendo Vox posted:We had an incredible run of Shadow Raid a bit ago, effortless really, that would have gotten every achievement but the overkill pack weapons one. It's remarkable what time and knowledge will do to a heist.
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Dec 23, 2016 03:35
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Fun fact about Scarface mansion stealth: When you open the red lobby, Ernesto spawns in his office doing one of several unique idle animations. But something bugs him out when you get near the door, leaving him standing in a default guard idle animation instead when you get inside.
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Dec 23, 2016 05:27
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Discendo Vox posted:Fun fact about Scarface mansion stealth: When you open the red lobby, Ernesto spawns in his office doing one of several unique idle animations. But something bugs him out when you get near the door, leaving him standing in a default guard idle animation instead when you get inside. You can still see the idle animation if you get near him on the second floor roof/balcony and use sixth sense to highlight him. At least I did - I saw him kicked back with his feet on the desk like a goon.
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Dec 23, 2016 09:12
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Go home everyone, we've reached peak payday 2
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Dec 24, 2016 13:16
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That's amazing, but I'm still holding out for Total Eclipse Of The Hox.
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Dec 24, 2016 13:45
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Dec 24, 2016 14:50
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so is this a heist track?
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Dec 24, 2016 17:43
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gently caress that track owns.
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Dec 24, 2016 18:11
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I'm glad I gave them a bunch of money
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Dec 24, 2016 18:16
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Jesus Christ am I smiling while listening to this
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Dec 24, 2016 19:41
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This is incredible. Every lobby should be four Chains...es.
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Dec 24, 2016 19:55
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Now I want a Houston "I'm having a bad day" song.
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Dec 24, 2016 19:59
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Now even the songs are making me ask Diamond Heist when???
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Dec 24, 2016 20:08
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John Murdoch posted:Now even the songs are making me ask Diamond Heist when??? God please no. Speaking of Diamond Heist (PD1) I'll need to try to solo it stealthly in these holidays  .
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Dec 24, 2016 22:43
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 👌👌👌
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Dec 24, 2016 23:00
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| # ? Jun 10, 2024 14:18 |
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crime dad has become crime daddy
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Dec 24, 2016 23:08
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