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Delsaber posted:Space is doing their old boxing week marathon thing now that they apparently care about Star Trek again. Maybe they ran out of Castle reruns? I caught the end of ST I: Camera pans slowly last night. I didn't realize Grace Lee Whitney was in it.
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Dec 27, 2016 18:36
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Space still only cares about TOS and TNG, they're just as worthless as before.
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Dec 27, 2016 19:50
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WickedHate posted:Let me put it this way. Personality and your mind are basically the same thing. There's a lot of stereotypes about autistic behavior and stuff, but there's legitimate reasons why, say, trains are so appealing to autistic people and autistic kids particularly. If you "cured" the autism of a young train enthusiast, would they still like trains? People are under the impression mental illness is like a giant rock strapped to someone's back, and that by taking the rock away they'll be the exact same person but more comfortable and able, but while some are like that(like depression), it's a broad area and the idea easily slips into fundamentally altering who a person is. They might be different people, but I betcha they both love some trains! Choo Choo motherfucker!
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Dec 27, 2016 20:58
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WrathOfBlade posted:I like the very first augment Bashir episode a lot, but I kind of have to cringe and look the other way every time it's brought up after that. Bashir rattling off odds like C-3PO is almost as bad as Dukat turning into a Pah-wraith. Ya know, I can kinda buy the Pah-wraith thing if I read Dukat as a guy who takes risky gambles and trusts in his "superior intellect" to figure a way out of any potential problems. He's the guy who saw and read second-hand everything there was to know about the Dominion, and still decided to ally Cardassia with them, all while figuring he'd be the one to come out on top at the end. I imagine he thought something similar with that Pah-wraith plan, but ended up drastically underestimating the effect of letting an alien god live inside him. I actually imagine that Dukat, Cardassian Hitler, accidentally killed himself when he let that Pah-wraith in, and the guy in Season 7 was Dukat rewritten by the Pah-wraith to become the Bajoran Antichrist. Makes as much sense as anything.
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Dec 27, 2016 22:37
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Dukat makes all of his life choices based on how likely it is to let him bang a Bajoran woman. Running Terok Nor: So many comfort women. Retaking DS9; Tries to seduce Kira. Becoming a cult leader: Sleeps with women followers and says it was a miracle. Taking on the pah-wraiths: Bangs the holiest Bajoran leader. Achievement unlocked.
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Dec 27, 2016 23:20
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Can you imagine if Dukat had cottoned on to Kai Opaka being stuck on that moon for the rest of time? He would have struck out for the Gamma Quadrant so fast.
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Dec 27, 2016 23:24
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WickedHate posted:It's like if a person adopted a baby, but you for whatever reason time traveled to create an alternate timeline where the baby was adopted by someone else. When the two are eighteen they'd be the same person genetically, but still completely different people. Based on all the case studies of split adopted twins, no, they wouldn't become completely different people. But regardless, curing someone of a mental illness isn't changing them, it's changing them back. The fact that some conditions are present from birth and don't provide the opportunity for the individual to establish a base state of identity for pre-conditional comparison is as much a tragedy of defective gestation as spina bifida or Tay-Sachs, not some deep inviolate core of personal identity.
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Dec 28, 2016 01:10
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Yea i don't think an anyone outside of people with martyr complexes think that people with mental illness would not want to be cured of it. Clearly there are things that cannot be cured by surgery or future drugs, phobias and neurosis for example, but stuff that is because of a chemical imbalance or other more physical brain problems can be fixed. You wouldn't tell someone with a heart defect to not have it fixed because it would change them. No, not being able to exert yourself is you! don't let those doctors try to change you! Man the Pah-Wraith cultists are loving stupid. Hey the man who murdered millions of Bajorians is totally changed because he found a religion that in our culture is basically the horror movie version of Satanism, we're gonna blindly follow him and just accept all the poo poo that comes out of his rear end as the truth. It wasn't until he was literally about to kill them all did they realize he was completley unchanged.
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Dec 28, 2016 04:19
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twistedmentat posted:Yea i don't think an anyone outside of people with martyr complexes think that people with mental illness would not want to be cured of it. Clearly there are things that cannot be cured by surgery or future drugs, phobias and neurosis for example, but stuff that is because of a chemical imbalance or other more physical brain problems can be fixed. poo poo, I've got fairly mild anxiety and depression and my meds have side effects that cause the exact same things that the issues cause, both directly and indirectly. But I feel better with them. If they had a magic space laser they could shoot me with to make the anxiety go away forever and it would "make me different," uh, that's the point. I would like to be "different."
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Dec 28, 2016 04:31
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twistedmentat posted:Yea i don't think an anyone outside of people with martyr complexes think that people with mental illness would not want to be cured of it. Clearly there are things that cannot be cured by surgery or future drugs, phobias and neurosis for example, but stuff that is because of a chemical imbalance or other more physical brain problems can be fixed. I don't wanna continue this derail any further, but I should point out I personally have autism, narcissistic personality disorder, and other assorted stuff, including pretty bad depression and anxiety that I would love to just go away but are completely different than whatever Bashir was implied to have.
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Dec 28, 2016 04:43
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I think Bashir was just dumb. They weren't "fixing" him, they were just making him better.
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Dec 28, 2016 04:53
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Sash! posted:poo poo, I've got fairly mild anxiety and depression and my meds have side effects that cause the exact same things that the issues cause, both directly and indirectly. But I feel better with them. If they had a magic space laser they could shoot me with to make the anxiety go away forever and it would "make me different," uh, that's the point. I would like to be "different."
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Dec 28, 2016 05:05
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So it goes.
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Dec 28, 2016 05:06
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WickedHate posted:I don't wanna continue this derail any further, but I should point out I personally have autism, narcissistic personality disorder, and other assorted stuff, including pretty bad depression and anxiety that I would love to just go away but are completely different than whatever Bashir was implied to have. Yea, I think the fact it was done without his consent was super wrong, and his parents deserved to be legally punished for what they did. I personally have multiple forms of dyslexia and yea, if i could take a pill and fix them all, i'd love. it. For one thing forums posting would be easier without having to worry about spelling and grammer mistakes. Also, as my job isn't really that mentally stimulating, I was thinking that if I did live in the 24th century and assuming you can do whatver you want, I'd think I'd run a theater. and old school single screen theater with matinees primers, midnight movies all that. Though i don't know how much people in that period want to watch Big Trouble in Little China or Rocky Horror. I think I don't mind Vic centric episodes mostly because they are devoid of the usual holodeck episode cliches, and that Vic is aware of his nature so his interactions feel more organic. Plus, who doesn't like cool rat pack 60s Vegas? James Darren is actually a decent actor so that helps as well. I think DS9 does the best Holodeck episodes in general, mostly because they don't over use them and there's also Our Man Bashir. It's way better than the loving Far Haven episodes on Voyager. The writers seriously over estimated how much people would care about stereotypical Irish villagers in Star Trek, as they have Voyager later in the episode having its big crisis and they need to reroute power and Kim is all "we might not be able to keep Far Haven up!" and this is presented as if it was some terrible dilemma as if Kim was saying "we need to vent the cargo bay we're carrying all the kittens and puppies into space or the ship will be destroyed!". They're holodeck characters, it's not like you're killing someone, even if you made Janeway build her perfect man in it. God Voyager was such poo poo, and to this day, I keep meeting Trek fans who think Voyager was the best after TOS and TNG, becuase it was "real trek" and not fake Trek like DS9 because that had humans being jerks and war and they didn't explore.
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Dec 28, 2016 05:17
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twistedmentat posted:Yea, I think the fact it was done without his consent was super wrong, and his parents deserved to be legally punished for what they did. I personally have multiple forms of dyslexia and yea, if i could take a pill and fix them all, i'd love. it. For one thing forums posting would be easier without having to worry about spelling and grammer mistakes. But see, my point is, stuff like dyslexia and depression are more like what I'd say are afflictions, unlike my autism and NPD which are essential to my base personality. twistedmentat posted:God Voyager was such poo poo, and to this day, I keep meeting Trek fans who think Voyager was the best after TOS and TNG, becuase it was "real trek" and not fake Trek like DS9 because that had humans being jerks and war and they didn't explore. Voyager>DS9 definitely seems to be the majority opinion, which is just flat out bizarre to me. Is SA just an isolated haven for people with good taste?
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Dec 28, 2016 05:53
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I only know one person who liked voyager more than DS9 and even they admit ds9 is a technically better show but voyager felt more like "home" ie more like the TNG they loved. All the other nerds I know think ds9 is the best. The key thing is not talking to tasteless idiots.
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Dec 28, 2016 06:43
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It's not just taste or discernment -- though obviously that's part of it -- it's also just that people watch TV for different reasons and in different ways. If you're a detail oriented TV viewer who likes to really pay attention while watching and has no trouble following ongoing plots, then Voyager is going to seem dumb as poo poo, but DS9 will be totally your jam. If you're someone like my dad who likes to watch TV at the end of a long day, gets confused by any sort of opacity in the storytelling, and can never remember who secondary characters are or what happened two episodes ago, then the current crop of highly serialized, convoluted, continuity-nerd-friendly shows can be pretty off putting. I'm not saying my dad likes Voyager (he calls Janeway "Katherine Hepburn in space"), but he also doesn't get quite as much out of DS9 as I do because he misses more of the little callbacks and points of continuity. I think people who just want nice comfort food TV that they don't have to pay too much attention to and also maybe don't watch every episode or see them in order (which, mind you, was a lot harder in the 90s, when a lot of these preferences were formed) might not get as much out of DS9 as they could and don't quite know what they're missing. Say one thing for Voyager, it may be dumb as hell, but it's not exactly hard to follow. As for why some the turbonerds don't like it, well, that "Gene's Vision" crap is practically a religion for some people and DS9 is dangerously heterodox for followers of the true faith.
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Dec 28, 2016 09:16
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Duckbag posted:(he calls Janeway "Katherine Hepburn in space") Well, who doesn't, right? My group sure did
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Dec 28, 2016 13:41
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Delsaber posted:Space is doing their old boxing week marathon thing now that they apparently care about Star Trek again. Maybe they ran out of Castle reruns? The only ads I see during this marathon are for whisky and some mental health PSAs. I think Space is trying to tell me something. Anyway, I tuned in yesterday to catch ST:IV, and it was a really strange TV edit. It cuts from when Kirk and Spock get kicked out of the first bus for not having exact change, to them getting a ride back to the ship with whats-her-name in her pickup truck. It was very jarring and weird. No "nuclear wessels" scene either.
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Dec 28, 2016 14:55
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Johnny Nostrils posted:Anyway, I tuned in yesterday to catch ST:IV, and it was a really strange TV edit. It cuts from when Kirk and Spock get kicked out of the first bus for not having exact change, to them getting a ride back to the ship with whats-her-name in her pickup truck. It was very jarring and weird. No "nuclear wessels" scene either. Double dumbass on that.
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Dec 28, 2016 16:14
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Duckbag posted:I'm not saying my dad likes Voyager (he calls Janeway "Katherine Hepburn in space") Okay I'll admit I'm genuinely struggling to see the connection here between these two statements.
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Dec 28, 2016 16:37
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WickedHate posted:Voyager>DS9 definitely seems to be the majority opinion, which is just flat out bizarre to me. Is SA just an isolated haven for people with good taste? That's the opinion of the general public. I know a lot of people who aren't otherwise geeks who prefer Voyager to DS9. However, within geek circles, DS9, TNG, and TOS are almost always 1st, 2nd, and 3rd in Trek series though in what order depends on the geek in question. (I'm a DS9 1st, TNG 2nd, TOS 3rd guy myself.)
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Dec 28, 2016 17:08
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WampaLord posted:Yes, but autism has more downsides than "likes trains" and we want to cure those too. Yeah, there is Sonic the Hedgehog fandom too.
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Dec 28, 2016 17:23
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Johnny Nostrils posted:The only ads I see during this marathon are for whisky and some mental health PSAs. I think Space is trying to tell me something. Here's the most important thing you missed:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fd3NG2JX6lc
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Dec 28, 2016 17:36
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My feelings about Voyager and DS9 comes down to Voyager having more episodes where That Thing Happens that I want to rewatch. Not to say DS9 doesn't have those, but I feel like I have to sift through a grimdark war story I don't care about to find them. WickedHate posted:Voyager>DS9 definitely seems to be the majority opinion, which is just flat out bizarre to me. Is SA just an isolated haven for people with good taste? Voyager > DS9 among the casual fans of the property when you realize that most people loved TNG, and when your choices are TNG-lite and 90s Comic Book Trek, your core audience is going to like the former over the latter. Duckbag posted:As for why some the turbonerds don't like it, well, that "Gene's Vision" crap is practically a religion for some people and DS9 is dangerously heterodox for followers of the true faith. I think there's something here, but less about Gene's Vision and what makes Trek Trek for a good chunk of the audience. I'd go as far as to posit that, quality of the show regardless, DS9 appealed to those who enjoy (for lack of a better term) being offskew to the mainstream. No matter what the story/characters are doing, there's going to be some appeal for a Not Your Dad's Trek on a base level. The same things that make such a concept interesting are the same things that alienate those who like Dad's Trek. MisterBibs fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Dec 28, 2016 |
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Dec 28, 2016 19:05
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MisterBibs posted:I'd go as far as to posit that, quality of the show regardless, DS9 appealed to those who enjoy (for lack of a better term) being offskew to the mainstream. It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a sick society
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Dec 28, 2016 19:37
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MisterBibs posted:a grimdark war story Holy poo poo DS9 is like the tamest war story ever told, it's the furthest thing from grimdark.
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Dec 28, 2016 19:38
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poo poo seems crazy to me. The simple ratio of good episodes to bad episodes in DS9 is so much higher than any other Trek, and Voyager is somewhere near the bottom. There is stuff to like about it, but man, it's one clunker after another. I'm in the midst of a full watch of Voyager, and I'm like half way through season 6. It's gotten a lot better over the last couple of seasons, but it took a long time to get there. In the first half of the series, it's such a relief when a decent episode comes along, it's like a little squirt of solarcaine on a horrible sunburn. Also, most of the bad episodes are bad in such a bland, boring way. TOS and TNG have a lot of stinkers, but at least they're, like, so bad that they're memorably weird and distressing. Shart Carbuncle fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Dec 28, 2016 |
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Dec 28, 2016 21:00
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While I recognize that TNG is an imperfect beast, it's my childhood Trek show. DS9 I find to be dull, with annoying characters who spend a lot of their time bitching at each other on a big brown set. I haven't actually watched that much Voyager, I didn't have access to it when it was on. It does come across as more cheesy and desperate for ratings than its contemporaries, with stuff like 7 of 9 fighting the Rock.
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Dec 28, 2016 21:06
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WampaLord posted:Holy poo poo DS9 is like the tamest war story ever told, it's the furthest thing from grimdark. Chain of Command, Yesterday's Enterprise, Best of Both Worlds, The Drumhead, Measure of a Man, and Lower Decks are all fun, light-hearted episodes, I don't know what TNG you were watching! In the Cards, Take Me Out to the Holosuite, Explorers, Little Green Men, Our Man Bashir, Trials and Tribble-lations, Who Mourns for Morn, You Are Cordially Invited? Get that Warhammer 40k poo poo out of my Star trek.
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Dec 28, 2016 21:10
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When comparing shows, I always like to ask people which have episodes that are still relevant today. Among others, TNG has 'The Drumhead', DS9 has 'In the Pale Moonlight', Voyager has......?
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Dec 28, 2016 21:16
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bull3964 posted:When comparing shows, I always like to ask people which have episodes that are still relevant today. Um...the one where the Doctor is abducted by the space HMO? And the space death penalty one...that's something, right?
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Dec 28, 2016 21:34
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As someone who has heard far too much baseball stupid on Chicago sports radio, there is no episode of Trek I hate more than Take Me Out to the Holosuite. Of course Sisko's team lost. They were a bad team. There's nothing noble about bad baseball.
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Dec 28, 2016 21:45
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bull3964 posted:When comparing shows, I always like to ask people which have episodes that are still relevant today. That Y2K one 
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Dec 28, 2016 21:47
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MisterBibs posted:As someone who has heard far too much baseball stupid on Chicago sports radio, there is no episode of Trek I hate more than Take Me Out to the Holosuite. Of course Sisko's team lost. They were a bad team. There's nothing noble about bad baseball. See, you're missing the point. The point of "Take Me Out" isn't baseball, or teamwork, or "have fun more than anything else," or some sentimental bullshit like that. It's " 'Vulcans? gently caress those guys.' - Benjamin Sisko"
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Dec 28, 2016 21:52
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Kibayasu posted:See, you're missing the point. The point of "Take Me Out" isn't baseball, or teamwork, or "have fun more than anything else," or some sentimental bullshit like that. And I don't think Nog ever forgave those Vulcans for stealing his ethics paper.
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Dec 28, 2016 21:53
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Data Graham posted:That Y2K one That was entirely negated in the last 30 seconds.
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Dec 28, 2016 21:54
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Voyager also had a few episodes that dealt with the Doctor being a lifeform, and how him being a tool factors into that. The episode where he basically breaks down because he had to choose between two people to save (and how the Voyager crew had to basically brain-break him to keep him running) is one of my favorite episodes. Kibayasu posted:It's " 'Vulcans? gently caress those guys.' - Benjamin Sisko" Yeah, and in the episode, anyone who legitimately cared about the sport would be rooting for the Vulcans.
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Dec 28, 2016 22:08
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MisterBibs posted:Yeah, and in the episode, anyone who legitimately cared about the sport would be rooting for the Vulcans. Oh my god you couldn't miss the point harder. Your ability to wrongly interpret things is fascinating to me.
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Dec 28, 2016 22:11
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WampaLord posted:Oh my god you couldn't miss the point harder. Your ability to wrongly interpret things is fascinating to me. Maybe he is a Vulcan.
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Dec 28, 2016 22:15
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