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ilkhan posted:Why did you take the leaf when you know it doesn't have the range to do it without a recharge and without waiting for it to charge?  But I did wait for it to charge? I figured a 70km, 50% charge trip would be doable with a comfortable margin with 115km and 66% of charge.
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Dec 28, 2016 13:35
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stevewm posted:a company fuel card Do they do something else for people who drive EVs?
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Dec 28, 2016 15:23
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ToxicFrog posted:
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Dec 28, 2016 15:51
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Subjunctive posted:Do they do something else for people who drive EVs? Not yet, I am the first one at our corp. office with one. There might be some others at our remote branches, but no one at the branches do any sort of traveling. The owner and HR person are generally great about compensating employees well, so I am sure it will come up soon. So far I am not doing so great at EV only miles. The 12-13 hour charge time on 120v is really hampering things. I've not managed to get a full charge yet. Definitely need to get a 240v outlet in the garage ASAP. GM really should provide a 240v charger by default. The OEM unit is capable of 240v, but they stuck a 120v plug on it. They should have made it changeable like the Tesla UMC. stevewm fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Dec 28, 2016 |
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Dec 28, 2016 15:51
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ilkhan posted:Hills? Speed? If it should have been enough, but wasn't, you need to figure out why not. Probably temperature. EVs have shorter range in the cold because they use the battery to heat the cabin. This is also influenced by time sitting still in traffic, the car still needs heating.
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Dec 28, 2016 16:48
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Phuzun posted:Tell us about the electric boat! Seems like a great use of EV, with the huge premium on fuel at marinas, limited needed range for typical lake use, and that torque. It's a ten passenger pontoon boat from the '80s or something with a loud and weak gas-powered outboard motor that echoes really bad off the metal roof. The dad-fix was to get a trolling motor with a compass and RF control module off craigslist, a few marine batteries, and an extension cord to charge it off 120V at the dock. Motor's mounted on the front, steer it with a tiny remote. It's quieter than a kayak, and about as fast, which makes it perfect for boating around residential canals. The gas engine is still there in case we want to go out of the quiet canal or some other electric problem necessitates it.  
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Dec 28, 2016 20:18
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big crush on Chad OMG posted:Isn't the Volt like the poster child for why you lease instead of buy an EV? No, it's one of the poster children for why you buy off lease from a lot that is next to a gas station with a big bright $1.79/gal sign.
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Dec 28, 2016 20:33
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Whoa let's trade dads that boat looks rad as heck.
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Dec 28, 2016 20:42
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Nice party barge. That is a pretty nice use for an electric motor in a boat. Keep everyone from screaming over a regular motor when moving about at a slow pace.
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Dec 28, 2016 22:24
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ilkhan posted:Hills? Speed? If it should have been enough, but wasn't, you need to figure out why not. It looks like there's a very slight downhill grade (200m over the course of 70km) on the way to the airport; that probably makes a difference but I wouldn't expect it to increase power consumption on the way back by ~30%. Speed was ~115kph for the most of the trip out, ~100kph on the way back. pun pundit posted:Probably temperature. EVs have shorter range in the cold because they use the battery to heat the cabin. This is also influenced by time sitting still in traffic, the car still needs heating. It was about 0° on the way out and -2° on the way back. We didn't use the cabin heater, just the heated seats.
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Dec 29, 2016 01:55
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blugu64 posted:No, it's one of the poster children for why you buy off lease from a lot that is next to a gas station with a big bright $1.79/gal sign. Is that expensive or cheap gas? The cheapest gas I can find locally here in Sweden is equivalent to $5,21/gal, and even then an EV doesn't make financial sense for me at the moment. Mainly due to the fact that I live in an apartment, with no garage (wouldn't use the spot for an EV anyway), no street parking with chargers.
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Dec 29, 2016 10:48
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MrOnBicycle posted:Is that expensive or cheap gas? The cheapest gas I can find locally here in Sweden is equivalent to $5,21/gal, and even then an EV doesn't make financial sense for me at the moment. Mainly due to the fact that I live in an apartment, with no garage (wouldn't use the spot for an EV anyway), no street parking with chargers. Cheap.
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Dec 29, 2016 11:10
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If you do the math on energy cost pr distance driven, and then deduct an annual oil change, you'll probably find EVs do very well. However, if you compare cost of purchasing a fairly new EV vs cost of buying/keeping a fossil powered car, it's a different story. And it will continue to be like this, gradually tipping in EVs' favor over the next decade.
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Dec 29, 2016 17:36
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Ola posted:If you do the math on energy cost pr distance driven, and then deduct an annual oil change, you'll probably find EVs do very well. However, if you compare cost of purchasing a fairly new EV vs cost of buying/keeping a fossil powered car, it's a different story. And it will continue to be like this, gradually tipping in EVs' favor over the next decade. Once you take away all the incentives / tax reduction / free electricity, EV's take a couple of steps back. But it doesn't really matter that much in the whole since we all know where the market eventually is going. The faster they stop being a "cool lifestyle gadget" and actually can compete in terms of quality, design and cost the better.
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Dec 29, 2016 18:21
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Ola posted:If you do the math on energy cost pr distance driven, and then deduct an annual oil change, you'll probably find EVs do very well. However, if you compare cost of purchasing a fairly new EV vs cost of buying/keeping a fossil powered car, it's a different story. And it will continue to be like this, gradually tipping in EVs' favor over the next decade. Nobody seems to understand this argument. People buy a car to a budget, be it monthly lease or finance price or cash price. If you're in the market for a new car and are prepared to spend say$45k(usd for the sake of argument since most people on this forum are American) on an urban/suburban CUV, an i3 is in consideration. Nevermind that you can get a Mini Countryman for half that, you're going to be looking at things like Evoques, X3s, and Lexus NX hybrids etc. And the Countryman customer isn't considering a used Hyundai Accent any more than the i3 buyer is.
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Dec 29, 2016 18:42
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All I mean is at sub $2 gas prices half of Texas buys a new truck, and cars like the volt and leaves sit on lots. Similarly back when gas was $4 (never hit that in Texas, but upper $3s) you couldn't give away an Crown Vic/Marquis, and I came close to buying one just because it was an insane deal/breakeven compared to a same year/mileage/etc Accord. People are irrational, self included, but be self aware and build a spreadsheet to figure out where the deals are. Edit:speaking of used cars that is. blugu64 fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Dec 29, 2016 |
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Dec 29, 2016 18:56
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Buy what you like and want and drive it in my opinion.
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Dec 29, 2016 21:56
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Yikes: https://www.startengine.com/startup/sondors-electric-car This guy barely managed to get buy with his electric fat bike campaign, where he basically ordered a preexisting kit through a Chinese factory. No way is he qualified to ever take this past vaporware.
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Dec 29, 2016 23:03
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D C posted:Buy what you like and want and drive it in my opinion. Good advice, but my wife tells me that if I try to balance my five year old son on the handlebars of my bicycle she will divorce me.  Meanwhile, at least used Leafs are under 10k in my area. Given that I have the cash it's tough to resist, especially since I'm still dealing with the stripper Soul I bought a while back. The thing has been reliable, but boooooring even with a mantran. At least with a Leaf I could put a "Powered by Coal" sticker on the bumper and also never pay for gas again.
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Dec 30, 2016 06:10
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Well if you want to bike, they do have those pull behind things for kids. Used Leaf is also pretty nice, if you're sure the battery will hold up and the range/charging limits will work out. kimbo305 posted:Yikes: https://www.startengine.com/startup/sondors-electric-car "Securities Offered: Maximum of 83,333 shares of common stock ($999,996). Common Stock outstanding before the Offering: 2,700,000 Common Stock outstanding after the Offering: 2,783,333" Am I dumb or is he really valuing his car company at over $33 million with only $1 million available to the public through crowd funding, without actually having a finished car? He is going to need significantly more money to produce vehicles, unless it is like 100 per year with garbage QA on the final product. And why 3 wheels? Is that for efficiency or a crash test loophole, like those tribikes. While he admires Elon/Tesla, he doesn't have the capital to compete. If this was possible and profitable, other big money companies would have done this already, because $1 million or even the $33 million that he has per those shares, is just a drop in the bucket for R&D of a concept like this. Phuzun fucked around with this message at 07:09 on Dec 30, 2016 |
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Dec 30, 2016 06:53
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Cocoa Crispies posted:It's a ten passenger pontoon boat from the '80s or something with a loud and weak gas-powered outboard motor that echoes really bad off the metal roof. The dad-fix was to get a trolling motor with a compass and RF control module off craigslist, a few marine batteries, and an extension cord to charge it off 120V at the dock. Motor's mounted on the front, steer it with a tiny remote. It's quieter than a kayak, and about as fast, which makes it perfect for boating around residential canals. The gas engine is still there in case we want to go out of the quiet canal or some other electric problem necessitates it. My father in law has my favorite boat ever in the same vein. Its a raft (piece of dock not tied down) with a trolling motor and a few batteries. Seating is whatever you carry onto it, and it will hold 3 adults, 3 toddlers, a baby and a dog. What does the compass and the control module do? Does that keep it on course?
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Dec 30, 2016 07:40
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 quote:Booked a hotel recently because they had an EV charging station. This is what I found...
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Dec 31, 2016 16:25
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Beats 98% of hotels, honestly.
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Dec 31, 2016 16:49
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MrYenko posted:Beats 98% of hotels, honestly. Probably good for 20 amps. Plug in and be happy they don't want 5 bucks a minute.
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Dec 31, 2016 17:00
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Some of the spots at SFO are like that, or were.
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Dec 31, 2016 17:14
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blindjoe posted:What does the compass and the control module do? Does that keep it on course? With the remote you control the trolling motor's heading, instead of its relative angle to the hull. The rest of the boat is pulled by wind and current to follow. It's not fast, so there's lots of time to react to things like manatees, kayakers, bridges, other powerboats.
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Jan 1, 2017 01:46
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How long do you suppose until the average person has an electric vehicle, and how long until the average person has a partially, or even fully autonomous vehicle?
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Jan 1, 2017 03:00
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About a decade after they hit big popularity in America, can't really guess on other areas. Used prices are certainly affordable now, just not a lot of demand or selection. Seems like most people under median income are used vehicle purchasers, so it's all dependant on a good used market. If the good lease prices keep going, then I could see that helping get that used market saturated with the selection that's needed. Though a good amount of people can only afford a single car, so range is a big factor as well. I believe Norway was going to limit car sales to EV only in 2020 or 2025. BMW is going to only produce EV cars in 2020 apparently. So I wouldn't be surprised if other brands are selling mostly EVs to consumers by that time. No idea about autonomous cars, they'll likely trickle in from the luxury brands until the equipment is extremely reliable and safe for the lower ends. Really think the autonomous taxi/Uber stuff will become hugely popular and car ownership will do out, just like home ownership.
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Jan 1, 2017 03:14
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Phuzun posted:
You've got your wires really crossed there. BMW are going to make a lot more EVs but no one expects they'd be even 50% of their total by 2020. And tbh it's looking more unlikely that Uber will even still be around in 2021 (the date they gave for their autonomous vehicle).
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Jan 1, 2017 05:21
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shadowvine118 posted:How long do you suppose until the average person has an electric vehicle, and how long until the average person has a partially, or even fully autonomous vehicle? A long fuckin time and never. The grid can't support mass charging, even if it did it's still dirty power in most places, even if it was clean there's still a limit to lithium battery production. The average vehicle in the US is 11 years old, the average used car price is $16,800. there isn't a good EV that will see $16,800 in large numbers on the used market any time soon. It still doesn't make sense from a financial standpoint to sell new ones either which is largely why they're so slow to roll out. The 3 best selling vehicles in the US are still trucks and there isn't a single electric truck. I think owning an autonomous car will be a luxury in the sense that there's no reason to own one. A regular car you pay extra for the convenience of going from exactly where you are to exactly where you want to go. With an autonomous car, you pay extra for the convenience of the car sitting in your driveway 95% of the time and the burden of having to maintain it. I would think most people would be excited by the idea of their car going out and earning money by carrying passengers while not in their own personal use, and from there it's an extremely small mental leap from "paying for more than i use and trying to earn back the waste" to "only paying for what i use"
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Jan 1, 2017 10:56
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drgitlin posted:You've got your wires really crossed there. BMW are going to make a lot more EVs but no one expects they'd be even 50% of their total by 2020. And tbh it's looking more unlikely that Uber will even still be around in 2021 (the date they gave for their autonomous vehicle). Yeah, guess I misinterpreted what they ment by full EV. That is their i line going full EV, such as the i8 not using gas as a primary drive.
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Jan 1, 2017 11:00
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I wonder how early in Uber's history they realized their business model would only work with autonomous cars. They seem to have convinced their investors all these losses will be worth it in the end.
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Jan 1, 2017 14:44
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Powershift posted:A long fuckin time and never. I disagree because what makes things impossible today can shift instantly. What you feel and see right now can change really fast, like in a single generation. Especially with less and less younger people buying cars and more cars being sold to weatheir people. Much like 4k TV's there are only so many things to sell to people if they already have a car, Tesla like sales are where the future is IMHO.
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Jan 1, 2017 17:58
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KakerMix posted:I disagree because what makes things impossible today can shift instantly. I would like to hear more about how the national electrical grid's infrastructure can shift instantly to support simultaneous HVDC charging of a hundred million electric cars.
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Jan 1, 2017 18:08
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KakerMix posted:I disagree because what makes things impossible today can shift instantly. What you feel and see right now can change really fast, like in a single generation. Especially with less and less younger people buying cars and more cars being sold to weatheir people. Much like 4k TV's there are only so many things to sell to people if they already have a car, Tesla like sales are where the future is IMHO. Once autonomous cars are on the road, ride sharing will likely be far far cheaper tan the total cost of ownership for a car. People who still want to own nice poo poo to one-up their neighbors might still own their own, but for the average person there will be no need. Ford and GM are already preparing their transiton from "car as a product" to "car as a service'. A more reasonable comparison than the 4k TV thing is ownership of DVD/blu-ray vs entertainment as a service like netflix. People are fine with the trade-off of lower quality for convenience and cost. They're fine not having a shelf full of cases to show off to their nerd friends. There are still those out there who buy and collect and need 4k and 21.1 surround sound, but that's a luxury market. Ownership of media is a luxury most people have VERY quickly found they can do without. Cars will be the same and for the same reasons. Bill gates once said "We always overestimate the change that will occur in the next two years and underestimate the change that will occur in the next ten.", in 2 years, most manufacturers will be selling their first mainstream electric model. In 10, they might barely sell cars at all. There will be hold-outs and brands that cater to them, but it's going to be the luxury/enthusiast market. Sagebrush posted:I would like to hear more about how the national electrical grid's infrastructure can shift instantly to support simultaneous HVDC charging of a hundred million electric cars. Charging at industrial rates at sites supplemented by solar/wind on site at a location owned by the company that owns the fleet of autonomous cars. Off-peak charging subsidized by fees on peak hour charging for full utilization of the grid. I wouldn't make sense for the majority of cars sold to be electric until more nuclear power plants are built, there won't be a new nuclear plant operating within 10 years that they didn't break ground on 5 years ago. The list of those is REALLY short.
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Jan 1, 2017 18:23
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KakerMix posted:I disagree because what makes things impossible today can shift instantly. What you feel and see right now can change really fast, like in a single generation. Especially with less and less younger people buying cars and more cars being sold to weatheir people. Much like 4k TV's there are only so many things to sell to people if they already have a car, Tesla like sales are where the future is IMHO. There's a Jupiter-sized world of difference between incremental improvements in electrical appliance specs and investing trillions of government dollars to support a ground-up rebuild of the national electrical infrastructure (which will take decades even if the money were there), with a simultaneous order-of-magnitude increase in battery capacity/manufacturing capability. And you're literally comparing something that costs $500 at Walmart to a goddamned $40-80k automobile.
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Jan 1, 2017 19:18
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Powershift posted:People who still want to own nice poo poo to one-up their neighbors might still own their own, but for the average person there will be no need. Ford and GM are already preparing their transiton from "car as a product" to "car as a service'. Not a valid comparison. Movies are entertainment. Cars are necessities. No one who needs a car to get to work (the vast majority of the country) is going to switch to Uber-like car services, autonomous or not, until the services are faster, cheaper and more reliable than both owning your own car and taking public transit. Also the average American household these days could buy a 4K TV without really thinking about it, while a car is still a multi-year commitment.
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Jan 1, 2017 19:19
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Sagebrush posted:Not a valid comparison. Movies are entertainment. Cars are necessities. No one who needs a car to get to work (the vast majority of the country) is going to switch to Uber-like car services, autonomous or not, until the services are faster, cheaper and more reliable than both owning your own car and taking public transit. It's not going to be an instantaneous switch for everybody at once, it's not going to be a strict black and white divide between single rider uber and public transit. right now buses seat 40 and run hour long loops because that's the most efficient use of drivers and fuel. When one is no longer a concern and the other is much less of a concern, the system will adapt either on the public transit side through public pressure(lol) or the private sector side through economic pressure. You have to go to work every day at the same time, you know who else does? all your co workers, everybody who works in the same area as you. With that set in as a regular booking. the system can coalesce similar routes into a van or bus with local pickup points, or even door to door pickup in a living, adapting computer calculated system. You could car pool with someone who lives next door to you and works across the street from you who you've never even talked to, something impossible now without knowing every neighbor and where they work. The first company to properly sort this out will have a huge cost advantage. If you're too good for that, pay extra for a private car. really want to feel special, pay out the rear end for your own car. The average american household can't buy a 4k tv without thinking about it. In fact, 63% of americans don't have enough money to cover a $500 car repair Unloading the burden of insurance, maintenance, repairs, depreciation, liability, sobriety, attentiveness from the "getting to work" experience will i think for most people be worth having to share the ride to work with that lady from accounting with all those cats. It will take cars off the road making it a more pleasant experience for most as well. It is a valid comparison because it's a part of a family budget. people don't have to buy movies/music/books, or subscribe to an entertainment service, but you would probably have an extremely hard time finding someone who doesn't. Not sitting in the dark staring at a wall is somewhat of a necessity for a lot of people. Most people would probably take public transit before having a $0 monthly entertainment budget. Or maybe I'm wrong and everyone in the world is an absolute loving caveman who would rather spend 2 hours a day in bumper to bumper traffic so they can have their own little steel box to swear at strangers from and pay handily for the privilege.
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Jan 1, 2017 19:53
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Godholio posted:There's a Jupiter-sized world of difference between incremental improvements in electrical appliance specs and investing trillions of government dollars to support a ground-up rebuild of the national electrical infrastructure (which will take decades even if the money were there) Yeah. And that's trillions on a system that does work pretty drat well (given the huge spans of land we electrified, and the organic way it was constructed) and is being improved upon albeit slowly, for a vehicle that does not exist yet. Meanwhile our highway system is literally crumbling.
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Jan 1, 2017 20:17
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Suburban-ites won't go for car sharing in large numbers for many many years. They still need vehicle(s) too regularly to run errands or take the kids to school or soccer or whatever. City dwellers will move to car sharing services, but they'll treat it as a more/less convenient mass transit option. But yeah, we need a huge investment in nuclear power. Moving to nuclear from coal as base load power could be the most important climate change change we can make during Trump's presidency (even he knows coal is dying, and nothing he can do will save it). Cars are a drop in the bucket compared to base load generation, and it would clear up EV usage as well. angryrobots posted:Yeah. And that's trillions on a system that does work pretty drat well (given the huge spans of land we electrified, and the organic way it was constructed) and is being improved upon albeit slowly, for a vehicle that does not exist yet. Meanwhile our highway system is literally crumbling. ilkhan fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Jan 1, 2017 |
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Jan 1, 2017 20:35
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