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Ugh, FML. Long story short, I got a job offer for a W2 contract through a staffing agency. In my area, contracts tend to pay less than the salary rate, which I know is backwards from most places. This time they said that there would be a cut on conversion after we agreed on a number. Here's a draft letter I wrote up just now, could I get feedback on it? Cross posted from the IT thread: (Pleasantries) "I remembered something mentioned in passing during one of our phone calls. You said that upon conversion I could expect a cut in pay in exchange for the expanded benefits. This is opposite from my experience regarding contracts in the past. Most of the ones I have seen which said anything about it promised an increase of effectively several dollars an hour. Decreasing by effectively several dollars an hour would leave me at or below the bottom end of the local salary range. Because of this unexpected difference, I would like to request an increase in the hourly rate from $27 per hour to $35 per hour. I recognize that this is a big swing, but the difference between gaining thousands of dollars per year and losing thousands of dollars per year is a big swing too. This would make my post-conversion salary more in line with the average in the area." I feel like that's a big request, but the terms were much different than I expected and I would probably end up going down to <50k after conversion. For reference, the average in the city is 58-60k. Thanks for any help you all can give.
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Dec 22, 2016 19:05
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Calm posted:Hi, so I've been interviewing for a job the last few days. The first day I met with a manager, the second day I met with an HR peron, and today they have me scheduled to meet with the CEO. The company has about 100 people in it. My position is an entry-level job that requires some technical skills such as spreadsheet work, data entry, renegotiating contracts and some work in Great Plains making sure data maintains integrity across their platforms. But most of it is software/datatabase work. I told them that depending on the exact benefits package, I'd start happy to start in the low 40k range. They mentioned today that the meeting with the CEO would have a few more questions but would mostly be about salary/compensation. I was told by my dad who does a lot of hiring for a different company that it's important not to price yourself out of the running with a ridiculous demand, but that it's ok to ask for raises as long as the amount isn't over 5-7% of the initial offer. Yea you done hosed up son. You hosed up first by naming a number and second by not reading the OP. Theres a link talking about literally your exact situation as well as explaining clearly what to do throughout: From the OP: http://www.kalzumeus.com/2016/06/03/kalzumeus-podcast-episode-12-salary-negotiation-with-josh-doody/
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Dec 22, 2016 19:13
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22 Eargesplitten posted:Ugh, FML. Long story short, I got a job offer for a W2 contract through a staffing agency. In my area, contracts tend to pay less than the salary rate, which I know is backwards from most places. This time they said that there would be a cut on conversion after we agreed on a number. Here's a draft letter I wrote up just now, could I get feedback on it? Cross posted from the IT thread: I'd cut the line which starts with "I recognize that..." - I think it undermines your ask rather than bolstering it. Your area sounds a little crazy. "We want to pay you hourly and therefore we might give you less than 40 hours, but to make up for that, we're going to pay you a lower rate..." should be a non-starter.
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Dec 22, 2016 19:28
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22 Eargesplitten posted:Ugh, FML. Long story short, I got a job offer for a W2 contract through a staffing agency. In my area, contracts tend to pay less than the salary rate, which I know is backwards from most places. This time they said that there would be a cut on conversion after we agreed on a number. Here's a draft letter I wrote up just now, could I get feedback on it? Cross posted from the IT thread: Feedback: 1) Its too wordy and you sound like a wuss. Suggested edits below. Merge yours and this one in word if you'd like to see all the changes. 2) If they kick back do you have a BATNA? 3) Did they tell you specifically what the pay cut will be and did it come with any extra special benefits like stock grants/options? 4) Am I understanding this right? You were making $32-35ish/hour and they want to cut you to $27 because you get health and 401k? 5) You should remind them why you are worth that money. Taking a "WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS TO ME" approach will lead to them not caring. Suggestion: (Pleasantries)<--Make sure this is very brief "I recall from our previous [recent? date?] phone calls that upon conversion I should expect a cut in pay in exchange for the expanded benefits. This is contrary to my experience regarding contracts in the past. Typically they come with an increase (in benefits? money? both?) worth $8-10 per hour. The proposed decrease would leave me below the bottom end of the local salary range. Because of this unexpected difference, an increase in the hourly rate from $27 per hour to $35 per hour is warranted. I believe my accomplishments working on ____ project, specifically the improvement of XXX by YYY% and the [insert another success you had] make this a wise and low risk investment for you and would make my post-conversion salary more in line with the average in the area." Thank you, [Your Name]
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Dec 22, 2016 19:31
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It seems like locally they think of it like a trial period. It does really suck not looking forward to holidays since you don't get paid for them. E: I haven't started yet, this is a new contract I would be starting. So I don't have any accomplishments yet. They would probably end up cutting me to ~46k, but that's a wild guess since I haven't hit this situation before. 22 Eargesplitten fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Dec 22, 2016 |
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Dec 22, 2016 19:36
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CarForumPoster posted:Yea you done hosed up son. You hosed up first by naming a number and second by not reading the OP. Theres a link talking about literally your exact situation as well as explaining clearly what to do throughout: Oh ok. I'll read through that if I get another opportunity and add it to my knowledge for future situations. Thanks for the link though.
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Dec 22, 2016 19:47
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How is this sounding? As I said in the IT thread I'm really bad at being assertive. Would anchoring with 25 or 50 cent increments likely help, or is that whole thing BS? (Saying I hope she had a good vacation) "I remembered something mentioned in passing during one of our recent phone calls. You said that upon conversion I could expect a cut in pay in exchange for the expanded benefits. This is counter to my experience regarding contracts in the past. Most of the ones I have seen or discussed promised an increase of 15-35% on top of the benefits. Decreasing my pay upon conversion would leave me at or below the bottom end of the local salary range. Because of this unexpected difference, an increase in the hourly rate from $27 per hour to $35 per hour is warranted. This would make my post-conversion salary more in line with the average in the area." 22 Eargesplitten fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Dec 22, 2016 |
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Dec 22, 2016 20:13
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22 Eargesplitten posted:It seems like locally they think of it like a trial period. It does really suck not looking forward to holidays since you don't get paid for them. I don't quite understand. Are you negotiating for your starting pay or for something that happens at a later date after you start? When exactly is "on conversion", does that mean when you start working there? 22 Eargesplitten posted:How is this sounding? As I said in the IT thread I'm really bad at being assertive. Would anchoring with 25 or 50 cent increments likely help, or is that whole thing BS? Its better but you still need to talk about how valuable you are to them IMO. Whenever I write something where I ask for money and only talk about myself I imagine the other person rolling their eyes at me. They dont care about me, they care about them. Explain why it is in their best interest to pay you more money.
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Dec 22, 2016 20:29
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It's a W2 contract to hire, which means I start out as a W2 employee of a staffing agency A working at company B and then (hopefully but not always) become a W2 employee of company B. I'm not sure how to make myself seem valuable. I've got an AS in computer science, one completed small Java project, a couple incomplete projects, and training in SQL (the actual language being used). I don't have any practical experience in SQL, though, so they are planning on doing training for both that and the special snowflake inventory/sales system they are using. Maybe try emphasizing my programming background?
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Dec 22, 2016 20:35
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22 Eargesplitten posted:It's a W2 contract to hire, which means I start out as a W2 employee of a staffing agency A working at company B and then (hopefully but not always) become a W2 employee of company B. I'd study like a motherfucker anything in the job description. Basically show that you're able to understand their needs and become an expert on that subject quickly. I tend to do this ahead of interviews and it works very very well. How long until you work for company B? I've not worked contract before, is it normal to negotiate your conversion salary before you are near converting?
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Dec 22, 2016 20:39
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At this point I'm past the interview, I have the job already. I haven't signed any offer letters yet, though. I guess I'll just have to emphasize my coding qualifications and say how programming skills transfer between languages. Worded better than that. This one is a 6-month contract. It varies, but I start looking for something else two months out in case it doesn't get converted. It's not always even a performance thing, sometimes finances just change. The last time it was discussed it was one month out.
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Dec 22, 2016 20:49
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"Hi. After speaking with my family and comparing regional industry rates I would need a rate of $Blah to accept this position. As I mentioned in the interview I have experience doing THINGS THAT GOT YOU THE JOB DURING THE INTERVIEW. I hope we can come to an agreement on this and I look forward to working for company."
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Dec 22, 2016 21:29
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"I remembered something mentioned in passing during one of our recent phone calls. You said that upon conversion I could expect a cut in pay in exchange for the expanded benefits. This is counter to my experience regarding contracts in the past. Most of the ones I have seen or discussed promised an increase of 15-35% on top of the benefits. Decreasing my pay upon conversion would leave me at or below the bottom end of the local salary range. Considering this unexpected difference as well as my coding skills and experience, an increase in the hourly rate from $27 per hour to $35 per hour is warranted. This would make my post-conversion salary more in line with the average in the area." Better? I know I'm taking a long time on this, but it's a pretty critical letter in a subject and style I'm not used to. If I can't get this rate changed, odds are I'll have to jump ship at the end of the contract, again.
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Dec 22, 2016 21:42
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An update from before. I initially started asking a range of 39-41k. During the meeting I was able to negotiate a final offer of 45k+benefits which is slightly above avg from median data regarding position in my area. So even though I made some mistakes initially, I used some of the information posted above to help me out. So thanks again to those who compiled the information and advice.
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Dec 22, 2016 23:42
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Spoderman posted:Thanks for the advice. I informed them of upcoming travel plans, made sure they'd reimburse me for any job-related certifications I would get, and I took the offer they made. The pay is 33% more than I was making before, the benefits are great, the holiday calendar is huge-- it was a good offer that I'm happy with. Plus, I didn't want to start out my career there with a history of buckling during salary negotiations. I just wish I hadn't said a number at first... You got more than you asked for and it sounds like it's a major step up for your career. Don't dwell on the negatives here, this is a great outcome. It's ok to name a number first if it's well researched. The cardinal sin, which you avoided, is to name a wide range that effectively locks you into the low number. Calm posted:An update from before. I initially started asking a range of 39-41k. During the meeting I was able to negotiate a final offer of 45k+benefits which is slightly above avg from median data regarding position in my area. So even though I made some mistakes initially, I used some of the information posted above to help me out. So thanks again to those who compiled the information and advice. Well done and well deserved! That's like a 10%+ bonus every year just for sticking to your guns. Devonaut fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Dec 23, 2016 |
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Dec 22, 2016 23:54
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Tots posted:Awesome, this is all really good information and at least gives me some starting points for questions. Come to the travel thread in this very forum, mon petit garçon. It's mostly status and hotel nonsense right now but if you ask good questions you will get good answers. Don't bother reading the whole thing.
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Dec 23, 2016 01:23
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Come to the travel thread in this very forum, mon petit garçon. It's mostly status and hotel nonsense right now but if you ask good questions you will get good answers. Don't bother reading the whole thing. Oh, awesome. Didn't know that existed. Thanks goon stranger!
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Dec 23, 2016 04:26
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Well, I sent an email like my most recent one but also saying that I hoped we could come to an agreement, saying I looked forward to working with the company, and asking for 37. Here's hoping. I'm applying for another job tonight that a friend of my mother's suggested at his company, just in case. If I do come to an agreement for a higher number, I'm going to talk with the director and make sure there's no hard feelings about the number the recruiters gave changing. I didn't mean to bait and switch, they just completely buried the lede on the salary cut. They being the recruiters, not the director or the client company. 22 Eargesplitten fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Dec 23, 2016 |
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Dec 23, 2016 18:59
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22 Eargesplitten posted:If I do come to an agreement for a higher number, I'm going to talk with the director and make sure there's no hard feelings about the number the recruiters gave changing. I didn't mean to bait and switch, they just completely buried the lede on the salary cut. They being the recruiters, not the director or the client company. I wouldn't talk to the director unless you negotiate with him directly. This is not a bait and switch since they didn't give you the numbers to begin with. And don't forget you already have the job, meaning they think you were the best candidate for the job. You are worth what you're asking for, don't be a wuss and start apologizing for claiming your fair share. You deserve that share.
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Dec 24, 2016 00:23
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Come to the travel thread in this very forum, mon petit garçon. It's mostly status and hotel nonsense right now but if you ask good questions you will get good answers. Don't bother reading the whole thing. +1 when I started traveling for work it was very helpful.
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Dec 25, 2016 05:12
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LochNessMonster posted:I wouldn't talk to the director unless you negotiate with him directly. Yes, DO NOT do this. You will come off looking weak as a kitten and they will remember that come next salary review time. To be entirely honest, you are being paid peanuts. By salary definition, you are at the level where you're not trusted in any sort of meaningful capacity. I know people who work entirely off of checklists and have zero autonomy who are being paid more. If you get some self-respect and have faith in your abilities, you will be kicking yourself for how you're acting right now.
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Dec 27, 2016 18:16
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Okay. I do tend to have a problem with assertiveness. In the past every time I tried to be assertive I just got poo poo on. Wherever people get paid more to do scripted IT, it definitely isn't here. Are you in the Bay Area/NYC? Around here 50k-65k seems to be the norm for this type of thing, I thought it was lower at first. I'm waiting to hear back now, the recruiter was supposed to be back today. I'm guessing they are communicating between themselves right now. E: Okay, looks like she isn't back until this evening so I'll either hear from her this evening or tomorrow. She has sent emails at 10:30PM before, so who knows. EE: Actually, she must have replied on the plane. Now she's saying that the rate on conversion would be 50-60k, to be negotiated. Of course, that is a very easy promise to make. It sounds like they aren't willing to negotiate. I'll try, but I'm not optimistic. 22 Eargesplitten fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Dec 27, 2016 |
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Dec 27, 2016 20:25
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I want to thank this thread for getting me a new job with better pay, better benefits, and more PTO. My currently income is 29k/year, and I'm living paycheck to paycheck. The standard for my industry is working under 2 year contracts. My current contract ends mid-January, and I went into my contract re-signing meeting earlier this month with a ton of information about our market and the average income for someone working in this industry; someone working in this city and this particular position should be making $33k, and I asked for $35k to reflect my experience and the fact I am the senior most employee doing this particular job. Instead I was offered a 1.5% raise and told, quote, "This isn't a negotiation. This is what we're offering you." I declined and was told my last day was January 12th. In the meantime, I've been pursuing opportunities in other cities. After getting interviews for a dozen different positions and offers from multiple locations, I was able to successfully negotiate $46k/yr in a different part of the country with a climate I vastly prefer, as well as compensation for moving costs and a free hotel stay until I find somewhere to live, in exchange for being willing to start just a week after my current contract ends. This is despite me only having 2 years experience in an industry that tends to value experience over my very expensive college degree, and is about $5k over the average for this city and $10k over average for my experience level. This is the advice from this thread I think that made the biggest difference: Be willing to walk away. Get a lot of interviews, and multiple offers. Be willing to negotiate for things besides just salary. tentawesome fucked around with this message at 07:07 on Dec 30, 2016 |
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Dec 30, 2016 07:04
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tentawesome posted:I want to thank this thread for getting me a new job with better pay, better benefits, and more PTO. Awesome  Always nice to hear that a goon did well. Hopefully the new city doesn't have a commensurate increase in the cost of living! If you have a second, fill out the survey linked in the OP and enjoy your new job!
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Dec 30, 2016 07:48
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Kalenn Istarion posted:Awesome Fortunately, the suburb I'm looking for apartments in is only about 10% more expensive. Most of my pay increase is attributable to the hours I'll be working (3rd shift) and the fact that pay in my industry is very dependent on location. I'll definitely fill out that survey, because this thread has been a great resource for helping me build the confidence I need to fight for the paycheck I deserve. tentawesome fucked around with this message at 08:23 on Dec 30, 2016 |
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Dec 30, 2016 08:19
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This seemed like the obvious place to ask, so here is my (mildly complex) situation. In my current position, I'm making a little over $42k/yr plus benefits. I have been doing some independent consulting work as well, and one of the companies for whom I have been consulting will be making me an unsolicited offer late next week. (At least, that's the assumption when one gets a one on one dinner invite without an actual premise, and the CEO has mentioned bringing me onboard). This is already, I assume, a good position to be in. Unfortunately, they know my consulting rate already, so I'm already negotiating from a weird place, but ehhhh. The twist is that I also have another project coming down the pipeline that might have a bunch of potential for compensation (part ownership, among other things). The issue is that one's not 100% solid yet, and the details are still a little hazy. So, I'm wondering how to handle this. My gut tells me step one is to nail down the out-in-the-distance opportunity, figure out what that entails and make sure that the immediate compensation is appropriate, get an offer from the guy next week, try to get a counteroffer from current job, and go from there. That way I have everything out on the table. My questions: 1) for an unsolicited offer, what should I be ideally looking for? I would think A) benefits from day 1 and B) at minimum a 20% pay increase would be a fair starting point, but I have always had to go looking for jobs before so this is new. 2) If this nebulous offer from the future firms up, do I have any business considering taking the immediate offer? 3 months then bouncing seems real bad especially if I can negotiate a counteroffer where I work now. Should I use the firmed-up future offer to try and negotiate good numbers next week? 3) How do I effectively present my case for a counteroffer? My thoughts are to bring up that this was unsolicited so I am obviously in demand, blah blah blah, but again, new to this situation.
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Dec 30, 2016 12:26
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tentawesome posted:I want to thank this thread for getting me a new job with better pay, better benefits, and more PTO. AWESOME! I don't know why particularly but I love this post; you did your reading, stood your ground, bet on yourself and came out ahead. Would it be okay with you to add your whole post to the OP as an example to others who come to the thread?
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Jan 1, 2017 15:30
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So I'm posting this for my g/f relating to a pay increase discussion that should be happening March. She currently makes 15.25/hr with an hour minimum of 44 and a hour maximum of 47.5 hours per week. She's been with her company 1yr on 1/4 with 9 months in a different role. When she left her old position she was making more as she was required to work 50-60 hours a week at the same hourly rate, so she was doing a lot more overtime. Her current position is less stressful, but obviously pays less so she was hoping to get an increase to at least her old pay if not more. Her performance has been above and beyond in her current role. If she were to get 17/hr that would bring her to her old total compensation. Should she ask for something more like 17.75ish? She's concerned because she feels that her boss would freakout if she asked for something that high as it would make her the highest paid in her division and that he would shut down all discussion and only give her a .25 cent raise as that is the max amount for a standard raise (usually .10 - .25). Also she states that HR has told her other benefits are non-negotiable and they are based on seniority with the company.
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Jan 1, 2017 17:55
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William Munny posted:So I'm posting this for my g/f relating to a pay increase discussion that should be happening March. She currently makes 15.25/hr with an hour minimum of 44 and a hour maximum of 47.5 hours per week. She's been with her company 1yr on 1/4 with 9 months in a different role. When she left her old position she was making more as she was required to work 50-60 hours a week at the same hourly rate, so she was doing a lot more overtime. Her current position is less stressful, but obviously pays less so she was hoping to get an increase to at least her old pay if not more. The only compelling argument here is based on performace. If she can show that she performs better than someone that is paid more then she has a chance to get a raise to at least what that person is making. I think it's highly unlikely that she gets an increase that makes her the highest paid in the division though as she's only been there three months and 20% is a huge increase. This is all entirely dependent on the boss being able and willing to fight for her as he's probably going to get pushback. She's basically negotiating at the wrong time as she had BATNA when she accepted the job and switched roles. As a side note, I would not bring up the difference in pay between the current role and the role with overtime as you can't compare a role that works more hours to one that doesn't.
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Jan 1, 2017 19:20
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:AWESOME! Go right ahead! I'd be more than happy if my testimonial helped others.
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Jan 1, 2017 20:42
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2 Months ago I posted about another program in my company trying to take me and my current program shutting it down. A few of you got on your high horse like I'm the goon in the well.CarForumPoster posted:All of you commenting "you should leave" should hold your horses. This company, despite my complaints about a promotion, has been exceptionally good to me [...words..] I have a very good reputation here [...words...] Grass ain't always greener. My promotion goes into effect Jan 21st, I get a 12% raise, I get to stay on the program I like in the role I like and they've added someone to my team last week to take over some aspects of my job I didn't like. The following people are big dumb dumbs, overly confrontational and/or give bad advice. Jordan7hm posted:Look for that promotion externally. Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Yeah - clearly there's no expiration date on you being critical to the project. The road to better pay will necessarily take you outside your comfort zone. asur posted:It sounds to me like you got screwed and are trying to convince yourself that you didn't and thus don't need to leave. Your list of reasons to stay isn't very persuasive as you could potentially get everything you are getting and more at another company Sundae posted:Yep - external promotion time now. the talent deficit posted:you're never gonna get it Dwight Eisenhower posted:You will be promoted when it is useful for your superiors to promote you, hope you enjoy living life on their schedule. If this seems rude and childish it is...but remember that others may follow your advice into a worse situation.
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Jan 11, 2017 02:08
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In other news my company tells you your compa ratio. with my promotion it went from .94 to .72. Time to tool up for demanding raises. Also Glassdoor and PayScale led me to believe that my pay was above average so maybe keep the accuracy of their data in mind. Don't be shy to ask for more than glassdoor/payscale says is average.
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Jan 11, 2017 02:15
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CarForumPoster posted:2 Months ago I posted about another program in my company trying to take me and my current program shutting it down. A few of you got on your high horse like I'm the goon in the well. You're definitely right about the glassdoor average - don't ask for the average. Asking for the moon is better than asking for the average, even if the average is what you get in the end. Jeffrey of YOSPOS fucked around with this message at 03:13 on Jan 11, 2017 |
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Jan 11, 2017 03:10
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:This isn't really evidence of anything unless you find out what you're really worth by seeking out other offers and negotiating hard. You had a fork in the road labelled "find out what you're worth" vs "sit and pray", and it sounds like sitting and praying worked out decently so far, but you have no clue what the other path would have brought since you didn't try. Congrats on the promotion and all but it doesn't mean that sitting and waiting was the right thing to do - I think you're the one giving dangerously wrong advice since people, at least in my experience, are much more prone to complacency than over-ambition. Frankly I still think you should be looking for other jobs, now using your new salary instead of your old one as your BATNA, but you do you. I didn't sit and prey, I took the relationships and personalities (read: non-adversarial) I had with my managers and their managers into consideration and made a decision to trust them and it paid off. Also I took this job just a few years ago so I am aware of what I am worth based on access to the same data every other diligent person has. I can go look around, sure, and I frequently get propositions via LinkedIn or Indeed but it involves starting over and redeveloping all of the things I have here, not to mention the repayment of my Master's degree depending on timeline.
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Jan 11, 2017 04:10
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So you still have no idea of what kind of package and position you could have gotten elsewhere. Seriously, what is the opportunity cost of going to one interview? For all you know you could have gotten 30% more somewhere else, but you're still flying blind. Loyalty doesn't mean you can't evaluate fair compensation. I'm not saying the factors you listed aren't important, but you may find that there is a better fit that handles all of those things important to you. But you won't know unless you go out and seek that info.
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Jan 11, 2017 04:56
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interrodactyl posted:So you still have no idea of what kind of package and position you could have gotten elsewhere. Im not that interested tbh. Why take off work, so I have a better BATNA? I'm not interested in leaving. And I can make reasonable estimates thanks to glass door and payscale, even correcting for their off averages. Best case is maybe my current position at a compa closer to .8-.9 (since I was promoted to a technical level that I haven't been out of school long enough for). Thats a short sighted choice compared to the benefits of where I work. Companies wont just randomly pay me 2x my salary when they can hire a similarly qualified person for 1x my salary and I can reasonably say that they can based on the data I have.
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Jan 11, 2017 05:13
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CarForumPoster posted:Im not that interested tbh. Why take off work, so I have a better BATNA? I'm not interested in leaving. And I can make reasonable estimates thanks to glass door and payscale, even correcting for their off averages. Best case is maybe my current position at a compa closer to .8-.9 (since I was promoted to a technical level that I haven't been out of school long enough for). Thats a short sighted choice compared to the benefits of where I work. Companies wont just randomly pay me 2x my salary when they can hire a similarly qualified person for 1x my salary and I can reasonably say that they can based on the data I have. For what it's worth, I've found Glassdoor to be entirely unreliable if you're in any kind of high skill position. I've been significantly above what Glassdoor says in every company I've worked for or gotten an offer in the last 3 years. I originally thought similarly to you, I liked my (then) current job and I knew I was already being paid more than equivalently skilled people at other companies (because I had talked to some of my friends about what they got paid). Then I got laid off and I ended up with two offers at almost 2x my original total compensation (and one of those offers expressed interest in going even higher if it would mean I would pick them, but I didn't really want to work for them). If you're happy where you're at and what you're getting paid that's fine, but I would take Glassdoor and Payscale with a fairly large grain of salt and I wouldn't assume you can't get a pay increase, even a substantial one, by looking elsewhere (even if you ultimately decide that staying where you are is worth not taking more money).
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Jan 11, 2017 12:36
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Steampunk Hitler posted:For what it's worth, I've found Glassdoor to be entirely unreliable if you're in any kind of high skill position. I've been significantly above what Glassdoor says in every company I've worked for or gotten an offer in the last 3 years. Interesting, I've found it to be fairly reliable and matching other sources, but I've generally worked for large corporations. The more data points reporting, the better, of course.
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Jan 11, 2017 14:37
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CarForumPoster posted:I didn't sit and prey, I took the relationships and personalities (read: non-adversarial) I had with my managers and their managers into consideration and made a decision to trust them and it paid off. This is the definition of sit and prey. You did nothing and hoped for the best. Congrats on the promotion, great that it worked out for you. That said, your advice is anecdotal and shouldn't be presented as the absolute truth and saying other advise is bad. My experience, which is also anecdotal, is that compared to several old coworkers who started and stayed at the company where i started I'm earning a lot more (20-25%) than they are. I've had 3 employers in 15 years while they stayed and hoped for the best. Experience/education is exactly the same, so it's a pretty decent comparison. I also am still in contact with a few coworkers who switched jobs once and they are somewhere between 0-10% behind me in pay (benefits over here are pretty similar everywhere). While I realize this is purely anecdotal as well, I can ignore this while combining it with the general threads opinion. Each case is different though amd what works for most might have not been the best option in other situations (and vice versa). Calling other people stupid and saying their advise is bad however is pretty childish. LochNessMonster fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Jan 11, 2017 |
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Jan 11, 2017 16:51
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CarForumPoster posted:2 Months ago I posted about another program in my company trying to take me and my current program shutting it down. A few of you got on your high horse like I'm the goon in the well. Congratulations. You're the insufferable socially maladept engineer stereotype. For the cost of one day of PTO (oh, you can only take full days? I can take halves!), you do not have information about your value in the market. This information could show you that your 12% raise was pretty bad. This information could also have showed you that your 12% raise was pretty good. But you don't have the information, so you don't know. What you do know is that your employer who you feel blind loyalty toward told you that you went from paid below average to paid even more below average. The one tool that we tell people that they need for getting raises? Yeah, that's that piece of information that you chose not to go get. If you're happy where you are, then that's great for you. But you don't have any kind of useful advice for people interested in negotiating. your compensation compared to peers in similar roles went from ever so slightly bad to worse given you adopting more responsibilities, and as I said you'll be promoted when and how it is useful for your managers. You probably feel really smug right now given that you've secured some improvement. I am not satisfied that you've demonstrated "how you avoided a worse situation" by not going on an interview.
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Jan 11, 2017 16:59
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