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yeah, that was a rhetorical question
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Dec 30, 2016 06:54
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Hazdoc posted:they don't They're creating choice. You will now have the choice of keeping tabs on the nearest DD, or taking a less useful skill.
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Dec 30, 2016 07:13
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Lady Morgaga posted:Thats what potato and vodka diet does to you.
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Dec 30, 2016 07:45
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Hazdoc posted:they don't Haha, I was considering trying this game out again for some hot torpedo action, but I guess not. It's not like it's a simple mod to make that arc a straight line pointing directly at the nearest enemy. Hahaha Wargaming's so loving retarded.
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Dec 30, 2016 08:12
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Torpedoes have been slowly getting axed over the past year as Wargaming pushes hard to shift everything towards gunplay due to their bottom line and who funds it the most. What Wargaming and battleship drivers don't realise is that battleship guns can hit as hard or even harder than torpedoes.
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Dec 30, 2016 08:34
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WG EU have backed down and given us the Santa Convoy missions, starting from next Monday, and all the Graf Spee bundles are now available. https://worldofwarships.eu/en/news/common/graf-spee-convoy/
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Dec 30, 2016 11:22
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OSad posted:I'd honestly rather trade the torps for some other quirky thing like sonar or something. This barrel-towards-the-enemy strategy only really works when your flanks are safe and you know you won't get slapped by something that'll really hurt in the side, which is usually when you're hounding down BB's who are isolated from the rest of the game or you've already won said game. 1. You don't need to go literally nose in, you just need to angle pretty hard to the point where the rear guns aren't usable and 2. Don't charge into the enemy. The guns are decent enough inside of 15km or so, so just zig zag towards the enemy, use islands to move up if you can, then just keep the enemy at ~10km. The worst thing you can do is charge in and try to use your torps, you don't have enough armor or health to get focused by the enemy team like that. Especially since you're going to have to show a nice fat side at close range to launch torps. I've been nuked pre-torp and have nuked pre-torp plenty of Gneise and Scharns that way. They're a great threat to keep people from charging in to bully you, and a nice way to shut off lanes. It's more of an aggressive cruiser than a BB. I really didn't like the Gneis but I actually have decent stats in it for 87 games play, 51% wr and 67k avg damage. It wasn't until the very end that it clicked though. Heartcatch posted:Torpedoes have been slowly getting axed over the past year as Wargaming pushes hard to shift everything towards gunplay due to their bottom line and who funds it the most. For me it's not that torps hit hard, it's the surprise nature of them combined with the stealth firing that makes DD's really unfun to fight against as a BB. It's why the Bismarck kept me playing this game, the ability to have a chance to turn the table on a DD makes it fun. I know that if I see him at 10km I'll be able to light him up, and then he has the choice to either push in closer to smoke and torp or to run away. If he smokes then I have the choice to either MLG manuever in with sonar against a wall of torps to get back into secondary range, or to gently caress off and reset. I also know that so long as they don't start shooting they can still stealth torp me, but from far enough away that some normal random heading shifts will keep me safe. It turns the match up into an actual fight, and that's fun. Having a dude just smoke up then light me on fire while I run away from the probable torps is definitely NOT fun. Honestly, I'd be fine if they just upped the base range of all BB secondaries to 7 or 8km and left things the way they are on live. Hydro is insane and really lets you push into those small island groups with ease, but it's not NECESSARY. Just give me a good fight and I'll be happy. JacksLibido fucked around with this message at 11:54 on Dec 30, 2016 |
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Dec 30, 2016 11:36
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Burt posted:WG EU have backed down and given us the Santa Convoy missions, starting from next Monday, and all the Graf Spee bundles are now available. If what they say is true the EU team wanted to have things slightly different in terms of the Graf Spee package releases and then totally misjudged the situation and brought a shitstorm down on themselves. All of the reward ships for those missions are pretty good and T6-7 is a great bracket to play.
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Dec 30, 2016 12:15
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Grab your socks, it's a 200% weekend
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Dec 30, 2016 12:28
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Kore_Fero posted:If what they say is true the EU team wanted to have things slightly different in terms of the Graf Spee package releases and then totally misjudged the situation and brought a shitstorm down on themselves. Yeah releasing the most expensive packages first so people who REALLY wanted this had no choice but to buy the ££££ bundle was good business sense if it was done everywhere. You can't do it on one server and not the rest and not expect a major poo poo shower to happen, they were just loving greedy idiots.
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Dec 30, 2016 12:39
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JacksLibido posted:For me it's not that torps hit hard, it's the surprise nature of them combined with the stealth firing that makes DD's really unfun to fight against as a BB. It's why the Bismarck kept me playing this game, the ability to have a chance to turn the table on a DD makes it fun. I know that if I see him at 10km I'll be able to light him up, and then he has the choice to either push in closer to smoke and torp or to run away. If he smokes then I have the choice to either MLG manuever in with sonar against a wall of torps to get back into secondary range, or to gently caress off and reset. I also know that so long as they don't start shooting they can still stealth torp me, but from far enough away that some normal random heading shifts will keep me safe. It turns the match up into an actual fight, and that's fun. Having a dude just smoke up then light me on fire while I run away from the probable torps is definitely NOT fun. Stealth firing isn't a necessity for DDs. While possible, a BB is not likely to hit you past 9km, so I am ambivalent about them removing it as a mechanic. Firing from smoke while hidden is just fine, because that's how a destroyer does the majority of its damage with guns. Battleships already have torpedo damage reduction to mitigate torpedo hits in light of lower manoeuvrability. However, the stealth nature of torpedoes is likely going to be heavily reduced with the captain skill changes. With double planes as a tier 1 skill to protect against torpedoes, plus vigilance now stacking with hydroacoustics, on top of that Radio Direction Finding showing you the relative position (within 11 degrees, if some reports are correct) of the closest enemy ship, you are almost guaranteed to never be hit by torpedoes if you take at least two of these skills. Adding to that is the new rework of Fire Prevention, which only allows one superstructure fire at a time simply compounds the issue of making battleships stronger. If you'll look at warships.today, most destroyer players have maybe a 5~8% hit rate on their torpedoes already and this will not help. I'd like to make the contention that even the worst battleship player is far more threatening than an incompetent destroyer player. A battleship that fires HE at everything is ironically more deadly to destroyers than a destroyer firing AP at everything. While the Bismarck's hydroacoustics gimmick is fun for battleship players, it mainly serves to marginalise CA players even further. By slowly giving all cruiser active abilities to battleships, cruisers are being obsoleted due to their lack of range, armour, and relative fragility compared to battleships. Only the stealthiest of cruisers really do well, Zao and Atago for example. Naturally, cruisers can be made to work, but the skill floor to doing well with cruisers is rising rapidly as battleships receive more care from Wargaming. From a gameplay balance perspective, destroyers should be deadly to battleships while battleships kill cruisers, and cruisers kill destroyers. This is not what is happening as time goes on.
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Dec 30, 2016 12:52
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Burt posted:Yeah releasing the most expensive packages first so people who REALLY wanted this had no choice but to buy the ££££ bundle was good business sense if it was done everywhere. You can't do it on one server and not the rest and not expect a major poo poo shower to happen, they were just loving greedy idiots. The way the CMs worded it, made you believe they weren't doing it for greed, though. They were doing it for your families! Think of the families. We don't want you to grind all these missions, so we've added an option to buy them. And in what loving world is the EU-region unable to grind missions, because of the holidays (that don't span well into January, fyi) and is not a problem in RU/SEA/NA? "We really are spoiling you guys, aren't we?" <- that sentence was pretty much the final straw for a lot of people. It's so out of touch, and so ridiculous. You can't make this up. ... and yet, in the latest update that brings the convoys to EU, there's this: "We hope the holiday season was enjoyable for you and we sincerely apologise for the lack of proper communication on why we did not release the Christmas Convoy for our European Server yet." You were planning on releasing it after all for EU? Bullshit. But at least they fixed it, and there may be hope yet for WGEU. gently caress. 
Iceshade fucked around with this message at 12:59 on Dec 30, 2016 |
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Dec 30, 2016 12:52
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So, with the upcoming skill changes (in particular RDF) how hosed are RN CLs, and how can they mitigate the upcoming loving? My gut tells me "very" and "not at all". 
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Dec 30, 2016 13:06
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JacksLibido posted:For me it's not that torps hit hard, it's the surprise nature of them combined with the stealth firing that makes DD's really unfun to fight against as a BB. It's not particularly fun to fight a BB in a cruiser either, and it's no coincidence that with every patch adding yet more buffs to BBs and nerfing torpedoes, there are less and less cruisers. I can't remember the last game I played above tier 5 that didn't have 5 BBs on each team. It's supposed to be hard for you to fight a DD by yourself, that's the job of the cruisers with you (all 2 of them, who got deleted by the enemy BBs who ignored you).
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Dec 30, 2016 13:07
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Soup Inspector posted:So, with the upcoming skill changes (in particular RDF) how hosed are RN CLs, and how can they mitigate the upcoming loving? My gut tells me "very" and "not at all". I can't see how RDF bothers RN light cruisers, battleships already know where you are - in that puff of smoke over there vomiting AP shells into them.
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Dec 30, 2016 13:16
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Yeah I'm not too bothered by it for RN but its a huge hit for any ship that uses low detection range to ambush. Its just too much information for clever players, much like the detection alert skill that is now baseline because its so useful. You will know the approximate location of any ambushing ship and can position for the incoming torps. I imagine they added it to reduce match times by preventing stealth ships from running out the clock but I don't think I've been in a situation where that is an issue for me. Usually the last few ships standing at the 20min mark are decent players so its either a good fight or some downtime where the match is all but won and people chat now that the pressure is off. Kore_Fero fucked around with this message at 14:12 on Dec 30, 2016 |
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Dec 30, 2016 14:07
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I like how they say this as if getting RDF is any sort of sacrifice on a BB build. Sure, you won't be getting AFT - as if that's important in most Battleships nowadays, what with how few CVs there are on the queues. Your secondary range will take a hit but it's such a worthwhile investment to be able to "see" torps coming before they're even there.
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Dec 30, 2016 14:58
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Scikar posted:It's not particularly fun to fight a BB in a cruiser either, and it's no coincidence that with every patch adding yet more buffs to BBs and nerfing torpedoes, there are less and less cruisers. I can't remember the last game I played above tier 5 that didn't have 5 BBs on each team. It's supposed to be hard for you to fight a DD by yourself, that's the job of the cruisers with you (all 2 of them, who got deleted by the enemy BBs who ignored you). I think all the cruiser lines should get repair party before tier 9.
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Dec 30, 2016 15:13
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OSad posted:I like how they say this as if getting RDF is any sort of sacrifice on a BB build. Sure, you won't be getting AFT - as if that's important in most Battleships nowadays, what with how few CVs there are on the queues. Your secondary range will take a hit but it's such a worthwhile investment to be able to "see" torps coming before they're even there. It doesn't even really matter if BBs get it or not, it's going to be pretty much mandatory for any DD captain who ever wants to contest a cap point. So the whole "we've reworked captain skills to give you more flexibility" is actually worse for DDs - at present Last Stand and Concealment Expert are mandatory so you have 7 points tied up, after the patch you'll need LS, CE and RPF for 10 points total. As a BB captain you can probably ignore RPF itself on the basis that people on your team probably have it already, so they're the ones that get the added flexibility. Is the RU meta a bit different about this? Last I heard the tendency was for teams to group up around the top tier BB in a massive deathball, so I can sort of imagine how a Shimakaze or two could be absolutely devastating in the right hands. But the fix for that is still the same anyway - buff cruisers in some way so they can get away with splitting from their BBs to chase off DDs without getting instagibbed. Astroniomix posted:I think all the cruiser lines should get repair party before tier 9. You can only repair 10% of citadel damage anyway so I'm not sure how much this would help. I think cruisers tend to survive well enough against other cruisers, and most of them (not Pensacola obviously) can take a few hits from BBs if they're angled. The issue is 1) there are always 5 enemy BBs and you can't angle against them all at the same time, and 2) if you're chasing a DD he'll try to torp you, and if you dodge them you expose broadside to those BBs. The starting point for me would be to cap BBs to 4 per side, even 3 if possible. I don't think I've ever waited more than 5 seconds to get into a match so I can't believe they're still worried about queue times.
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Dec 30, 2016 15:30
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I'd like the return of the ability for two cv players to platoon up. Then US CVs will have some use as they can go air supremacy while having their platoonmate being in a ground strike setup. Thus, both actually are not in trouble.
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Dec 30, 2016 16:07
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Hazdoc posted:
So you are saying that the maps "gimmick" is a design that lets dds easily ambush people, and since the new skill breaks this, the map should be deleted? Let me rephrase this to what I hear when I read this: The maps should be designed around destroyer play, and once they aren't optimized for destroyers they are useless. And let me be perfectly clear. I haven't played with the new skills on test yet, and I am not trying to defend the changes. Instead, I'm just pointing out that it appears like your saying the game should be designed around dds, and as someone who spends 90% of his time in a cruiser, this is kind of irritating. I get it the game favoring battleships more is bad; however, 90% of the games favors battleships AND destroyers, particularly at high tiers.
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Dec 30, 2016 17:28
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ZombieLenin posted:So you are saying that the maps "gimmick" is a design that lets dds easily ambush people, and since the new skill breaks this, the map should be deleted? you're
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Dec 30, 2016 17:35
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ZombieLenin posted:So you are saying that the maps "gimmick" is a design that lets dds easily ambush people, and since the new skill breaks this, the map should be deleted? He's talking about the middle channel you dipshit. Kind of hard for any ship to try and sneak through mid-late game if this skill immediately points it out. Why the hell would you think he was specifically talking about destroyers when referencing Two Brothers' gimmick? I also like how you, who just said they mostly play a single class, is trying to claim someone who actually plays all classes, aside from CVs, near equally is trying to balance the game around a single class.
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Dec 30, 2016 17:44
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Scikar posted:It doesn't even really matter if BBs get it or not, it's going to be pretty much mandatory for any DD captain who ever wants to contest a cap point. So the whole "we've reworked captain skills to give you more flexibility" is actually worse for DDs - at present Last Stand and Concealment Expert are mandatory so you have 7 points tied up, after the patch you'll need LS, CE and RPF for 10 points total. As a BB captain you can probably ignore RPF itself on the basis that people on your team probably have it already, so they're the ones that get the added flexibility. I think they changed it so cruisers can repair 25% of citadel damage, because so often they were repairing negligible amounts of damage. But overall you are right, the repair really only makes a big difference in a slugging match against ships whittling you down with HE/fires or smaller caliber AP. I think its entirely possible they might have added repair to more cruisers, but I think the Atago leaves them painted into a corner somewhat.
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Dec 30, 2016 17:48
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Can I stop you all for a minute and remind you that Demolition Expert will soon make the bismarck fire aura even more fantastic?
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Dec 30, 2016 17:54
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JacksLibido posted:...For me it's not that torps hit hard, it's the surprise nature of them combined with the stealth firing that makes DD's really unfun to fight against as a BB. It's why the Bismarck kept me playing this game, the ability to have a chance to turn the table on a DD makes it fun. I know that if I see him at 10km I'll be able to light him up, and then he has the choice to either push in closer to smoke and torp or to run away. If he smokes then I have the choice to either MLG manuever in with sonar against a wall of torps to get back into secondary range, or to gently caress off and reset. I also know that so long as they don't start shooting they can still stealth torp me, but from far enough away that some normal random heading shifts will keep me safe. It turns the match up into an actual fight, and that's fun. Having a dude just smoke up then light me on fire while I run away from the probable torps is definitely NOT fun. As a former DD player who's had to move away from it due to the weakness of the DD class and continued nerfing due to BB player whining, let me rephrase what you've just said. "I don't like being hit when I'm not expecting it. I want to be able to out-fight every other ship class in my BB. I think balancing DDs should including inflicting a DOT on them when they're within torp range of a BB. If they're firing guns at me, I should be able to see them." For a class with no hitpoints and no armor, you want to counter their few advantages - typical poor shot accuracy of BBs and slow reload times leading to being unable to hit DDs with main guns; plus being able to fire without being detected - because you think it's "not fair"? I have a counter-offer. Let's cause all battleships to suffer a 10% dispersion debuff against DDs with their primary and secondary weapons. Let's reduce overpen damage to ships with less than 35% of the armor required to arm AP fuses to 3% instead of 10%. Let's remove the ability for hydro and radar to detect ships and torps through landmasses. Let's remove the ability for proximity spotting to work through landmasses. The Prong Song fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Dec 30, 2016 |
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Dec 30, 2016 18:18
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This game was super fun in alpha, when the torps were invisible, fast, and deadly... Then the torp nerfs started and it became significantly less fun, so I stopped playing.
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Dec 30, 2016 18:32
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So recapping, I see a lot of skills that benefit BBs a lot. - The fire prevention is a joke and only buffs BBs, hinders DDs, CL/CAs and CVs (dive bomber fires). - Demo expert now also affects secondaries, another buff to BBs (well, certain ones like Bismarck and up, Yamato) and the decreased fire chance a nerf to CL/CA and DDs. - BFT has an extra 10% AA DPS bonus for more points .. that was usually a no-brainer for DDs, but now I'm not so sure, and that's another big plus to BBs (and CL/CAs to an extend). - Double catapult fighters is a big buff to BBs (and I guess in that regard a nerf to CVs and DDs) Are there any skills that directly buff CL/CAs and nerf BB? Iceshade fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Dec 30, 2016 |
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Dec 30, 2016 18:33
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The Prong Song posted:As a former DD player who's had to move away from it due to the weakness of the DD class and continued nerfing due to BB player whining, let me rephrase what you've just said. As a current DD player, all of this.
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Dec 30, 2016 18:37
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Replace all the DDs in the game with Fletchers.
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Dec 30, 2016 18:46
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I went ahead and also bought the Murmansk. Please tell me this wasn't a terrible decision.
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Dec 30, 2016 18:47
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Der Shovel posted:I went ahead and also bought the Murmansk. It wasn't, like a year ago. Enjoy your new Tier 7 premium cruiser, tho.
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Dec 30, 2016 18:47
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Some games, you're just not meant to win. That's all our battleship drivers stacked hard on the valley express of Fault Line. 
OSad fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Dec 30, 2016 |
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Dec 30, 2016 18:57
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OSad posted:Some games, you're just not meant to win. It is truly incredible how cap points are radioactive for many battleship drivers.
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Dec 30, 2016 19:16
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Ice Fist posted:It is truly incredible how cap points are radioactive for many battleship drivers. TBH with all of the red team's DDs still up I wouldn't take my BB into the cap circles either.
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Dec 30, 2016 19:21
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Lord Koth posted:He's talking about the middle channel you dipshit. Kind of hard for any ship to try and sneak through mid-late game if this skill immediately points it out. Why the hell would you think he was specifically talking about destroyers when referencing Two Brothers' gimmick? No offense, who cares. This happens late game because everyone left alive has moved away from a position where they can defend mid. In any case, I don't want to argue about fucktard (I can name call too!) I'm just saying when you join together the sentences: "This is broken, I knew the DD was there so I dodged the torpedoes" And "So just delete this map" I read something that you didn't expressly say. My interpretation could totally be wrong, I accept that. This was more a post about watching what you say I guess. I also sort of wanted to point out, as a dude with 2 tier Xs that are both cruisers, that when you are routinely in matches with 5x BBs and 5x DDs per side, it's a bit irritating to see tears about DD useability. Cruisers are totally poo poo on in high tiers. I have no desire to see the game go more BB meta; however, I have little pity for to spare for DD drivers, which is unfortunate I suppose.
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Dec 30, 2016 19:25
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Astroniomix posted:TBH with all of the red team's DDs still up I wouldn't take my BB into the cap circles either. Agreed it's not a safe choice. However in the posted picture (almost assuredly a losing game, like 99% chance since they have no caps and are down by two? ships) your choices are to continue following the BB conga line alone the egde of the map or attempting to make *something* happen. Supporting the lone DD in the cap circle seems like a good start. Anyways yeah that game is hosed either way.
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Dec 30, 2016 19:34
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ZombieLenin posted:I also sort of wanted to point out, as a dude with 2 tier Xs that are both cruisers, that when you are routinely in matches with 5x BBs and 5x DDs per side, it's a bit irritating to see tears about DD useability. The two are related though. If DDs have strong torps then there's a natural counter to the BB meta. It's only after waves of nerfs to torpedoes and CVs that the BB meta has really taken off, and of course it's going to be cruisers who lose out the most because they're the most vulnerable to BBs. The only reason you see more DDs is that they're more likely to survive the first 5 minutes, they aren't actually accomplishing much more than the cruisers do.
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Dec 30, 2016 19:41
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Darn, the Flamu trick didn't work for me, just camo. But a discount on tier 8 premiums means I can finally pick up an Atago.
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Dec 30, 2016 19:44
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| # ? May 16, 2024 20:42 |
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 This was the scoreboard that game. Our team, save for one Leander and me, immediately turn all left. The enemy team more sensibly chooses to send *some* of their forces to A to stall us, while one of their battleships, two cruisers and two destroyers try to handle the other points. Our Leander quickly gets bopped, then our Carrier gets dunked on by their Carrier, because everyone left for the corner of the map in a hurry and that ship isn't fast enough to run away, nor does it really have the AA to cover for itself (you can see that he at least tried to run away). At this point I was smoked up between A and B, machinegunning a Cleveland and a Kongo on A. I see that my smoke is running out so I pop speed boost to try and hurry back south. As I pop out of the clouds, I get spotted by all of the Ryujo's planes, that were all invisible to me... since nobody was spotting them as they were already all linesniping on the far west end of the map. The carrier parks his planes on top of me, then the two DD's pop out from the eastern end of B and double team me. I get into a scuffle and damage the Farragut but I get my engine damaged and myself blown up before I can even get a whiff of cover. No support was possible as our BB's who had a line of fire on the destroyers were occupied shooting their BB's to the north of A, and the ones that weren't couldn't even try because of the giant island blocking the shots. With no air defenses and no map control, the enemy very calmly pincers our team and wipes us out. A bit of tunnel-visioning on my part? I guess. I still visibly wince when I see people doing this. I don't understand what compels BB drivers to go HARD for the left of A, when I never take my BB's there anymore at the start and I don't see any point in doing so.
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Dec 30, 2016 19:51
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