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hobbesmaster posted:Should WAR OTs actually be spamming storm's eye/path combos and never butcher's block? Butcher's block in DPS stance is fine for OT. You won't pass MT in enmity unless the MT is slacking.
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Jan 1, 2017 10:19
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hobbesmaster posted:Should WAR OTs actually be spamming storm's eye/path combos and never butcher's block? Optimal DPS for WARs is butcher's block, but each combo is only 6 2/3rds potency per GCD better than storm's eye, and you have to alternate between the two to keep storm's eye up anyhow, making the difference even smaller. That said, using butcher's block enough so that if the tank happens to die the boss immediately goes to you is nice as a safety net, so just watch threat bars and act accordingly. chinese barbecue porp posted:Butcher's block in DPS stance is fine for OT. You won't pass MT in enmity unless the MT is slacking. Or the MT is tanking in DPS stance after a tank stance opener and playing a class whose optimal DPS combo isn't their threat combo.
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Jan 1, 2017 10:23
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stabbington posted:Or the MT is tanking in DPS stance after a tank stance opener and playing a class whose optimal DPS combo isn't their threat combo. Or there's a bit of ilvl disparity with the WAR being ahead and they crit a lot, especially during Multi-Fell Cleave Time.
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Jan 1, 2017 10:27
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EponymousMrYar posted:Or there's a bit of ilvl disparity with the WAR being ahead and they crit a lot, especially during Multi-Fell Cleave Time. In which case the MT Provokes while the WAR dials it down for a few seconds, just like any scenario where the OT outgears the MT.
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Jan 1, 2017 10:29
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Hi, yea don't BB ever as a war ot. If you do than you are actually factually bad. If you think it's okay or it doesn't matter you are wrong, and you should stop it and start breaking that bad habit immediately.
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Jan 1, 2017 10:47
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Well you learn something new every day. I thought a higher potency combo (BB) would be better as OT. So far I haven't had trouble staying second in enmity but I also don't think I've ever seen a MT go for DPS stance in the content I run so there hasn't been a risk of pulling aggro. In 4 man content I usually pull a triple cleave once I've gained enough of an enmity lead but I guess you should try to do that in the beginning then when every other job is also putting in their starter buffs? edit: unless then it is literally impossible to gain enmity lead when a good dps throws in their starter rotation. guess I have been lucky with bad dps edit 2: it also appears I can't count.  I just checked the potency and yes, Path is the higher potency as well.
jyrque fucked around with this message at 11:08 on Jan 1, 2017 |
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Jan 1, 2017 11:03
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Velthice posted:Hi, yea don't BB ever as a war ot. If you do than you are actually factually bad. If you think it's okay or it doesn't matter you are wrong, and you should stop it and start breaking that bad habit immediately. Dude, we get it. Your group doesn't have a ninja.
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Jan 1, 2017 11:26
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I'm on my phone away from home so this is gonna be simplified, but the idea is that for maximum raid dps, you have the war pull with unchained with nin assistance for an massive threat lead. By the the time unchained wears off you'd already be in deliverance and fell cleaving stuff. Your other tank, usually a drk, then provokes off of you when it's safest to do so. They're going to do one (1) threat combo (not in tank stance) to take control and then go into their dps rotation. That means you have a razor thin threat line and any BB is going to spin the boss right back to the war and usually gently caress everyone right up. Of course as the other tank pulls away in threat, usually because the war has other things to do, you can sneak in a BB every once in a while, but you always need to be mindful because even in deliverance a BB combo does a fair bit of threat, especially when the other tank isn't doing any. It's really more fight dependant. On refurbisher you can sneak it in, on Alex prime it's super no bueno.
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Jan 1, 2017 11:29
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Butcher's Block is fine in any fight where the MT stays in tank stance, which includes every single fight you do with PUGs. So, whileVelthice posted:Hi, yea don't BB ever as a war ot. If you do than you are actually factually bad. If you think it's okay or it doesn't matter you are wrong, and you should stop it and start breaking that bad habit immediately. is nice in theory, it doesn't really work in practice unless literally all of your play time is done with a static (in which case congrats I guess) e: Butcher's Block is also fine if your warrior is undergeared compared to the MT cheetah7071 fucked around with this message at 11:40 on Jan 1, 2017 |
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Jan 1, 2017 11:35
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Even playing with bads in DF content I'd like to improve my tanking so thanks for the input. Staying in enmity lead is easy as pie but I'd like to improve my damage output because the average random player is not that good at it. WAR is simple enough to do your intended role good at so anything to break the tedium is welcome.
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Jan 1, 2017 11:44
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In trial roulette, yea it's probably not going to matter, but for anything serious like extremes or weekly Alex clears in pf (especially when the content is first released and early in the week for weekly stuff) you're going to start running into tanks and whole groups that know what they're doing. Why practice doing things wrong? Pf and also the extremely underrated raid finder are great places to practice those perfect openers and rotations.
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Jan 1, 2017 11:47
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I've literally never accidentally pulled aggro as an offtank (though I have as a Dragoon plenty of times in the first few GCDs against bad tanks). Your advice is quite good for the situation it covers (a coordinated opener where both tanks want to spend as little time in tank stance as possible, the MT is a dark knight so no incidental savage blade enmity, and the healers can be trusted not to overheal into stealing aggro), but, even if you spend as much time as possible with your static, why push out less DPS than you can in situations with PUGs with shield oath on full time? You also spend so little time attacking the boss in some fights (A9S is the big example in the current tier) that you can do basically whatever you want and not steal aggro, so you might as well get your damage in. It's not that one of the rotations is right and one is wrong, they're different tools for different situations.
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Jan 1, 2017 12:03
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I'm not arguing against that at all, all I'm saying is, yo dawg, wanna do the sick nasty dps, here's what you should do. If you have a bad pug it is what it is and you do whatever you have to do. That's just situational awareness. To be perfectly clear the advice I'm giving is aimed towards people that really want to maximize their own and the raid's dps. And yea it's only going to work in groups that have the same mindset as you do, but it's still something you should be mindful of so you don't fall into bad a bad habit. It's like yo, you're a good war? Here's one of the steps to being a great one.
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Jan 1, 2017 12:25
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My wife, my son, and I just finished the main ARR storyline tonight. It kind of sucks that that last two quests are 8 man raids that no one waits for you to view the cut scenes. We got locked out of the fight in the first instance and our group ran so far off in the second that we were completely lost. I guess we can just view the cutscenes in the hotel room but that seems like it'd be a pretty obvious issue with putting 20 minutes of cut scenes into a zone that most people are only grinding out for currency.
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Jan 1, 2017 15:01
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Nostalgia4Ass posted:My wife, my son, and I just finished the main ARR storyline tonight. It kind of sucks that that last two quests are 8 man raids that no one waits for you to view the cut scenes. We got locked out of the fight in the first instance and our group ran so far off in the second that we were completely lost. They don't do that again, fortunately.
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Jan 1, 2017 15:07
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Nostalgia4Ass posted:My wife, my son, and I just finished the main ARR storyline tonight. It kind of sucks that that last two quests are 8 man raids that no one waits for you to view the cut scenes. We got locked out of the fight in the first instance and our group ran so far off in the second that we were completely lost. SE Learned their lesson on this and you wont encounter such a thing again. They have not, however, learned their lesson on FATEs sucking rear end. E: Yup. New seasonal event definitely has a dude proclaiming theres a ton of cocks around here and being offended someone wont touch his cock head. God bless Japan. Digital_Jesus fucked around with this message at 15:40 on Jan 1, 2017 |
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Jan 1, 2017 15:19
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From my napkin math, OT WAR gains ~1.2% more overall damage outside berserk by alternating SE/BB vs. just using SE. Inside your typical 9-hit berserk triple cleave + fracture, it's a gain of ~0.7%. (Napkin math did not model non-berserk fracture, nor did it model crits, potions, trick attack, etc. That said, most of these extra factors would ideally be aimed at boosting fell cleave - especially berserked - damage, and would thus reduce the percentage-of-overall-damage gap between SE and BB combos even further.) More to the point, chances are pretty drat good that whatever the MT has to do for extra threat to keep ahead of that, is going to be a bigger damage loss for them than whatever the OT WAR is gaining, resulting in a net loss of group damage overall. Simplest advice, then, is this: watch threat meters, and feel free to BB if you know you're not gonna pull aggro by doing so (it is more potency after all, so if you can safely do it, by all means squeak out that extra damage). If threat is too close to tell, though, then don't. And most likely when running with a static of regular peeps, you'll be in the "too close to tell" area most of the time if the MT is pushing their damage. Side note: going from just SE, to alternating SE/SP, is a damage loss of similar percentages. Which means that it's not gonna kill you to drop a Storm's Path now and then if it'll clearly make things smoother for the healers during a period of higher incoming damage. You might even get enough extra healer DPS out of it to have a net gain, though that's a harder case to make. Vil fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Jan 1, 2017 |
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Jan 1, 2017 16:49
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I have a really dumb question. The NIN rotation calls for me to do Internal Release and B4B in the middle of it, but if those skills are flat Crit and Damage increases, wouldn't it make more sense to pop them before doing any damage? Why don't they go in the space between the Huton pre-cast and Suiton?
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Jan 1, 2017 17:04
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I've never held back on butcher's block and our war OT doesnt either and we've cleared every raid tier. We also don't do any tank swap openings because it isnt really necessary and our dark knight is lazy and stays in grit most of the time.
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Jan 1, 2017 17:07
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SonicRulez posted:I have a really dumb question. The NIN rotation calls for me to do Internal Release and B4B in the middle of it, but if those skills are flat Crit and Damage increases, wouldn't it make more sense to pop them before doing any damage? Why don't they go in the space between the Huton pre-cast and Suiton? You weave them in during your opener to make sure they're up when you do your biggest hits at the end. For example, if i popped either pre-pull on dragoon then i wouldnt have B4B up for my full thrust and combo finisher at the end of my opener.
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Jan 1, 2017 17:09
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Mr. Nice! posted:I've never held back on butcher's block and our war OT doesnt either Mr. Nice! posted:dark knight is lazy and stays in grit most of the time. aaaaand that's why your OT can BB
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Jan 1, 2017 17:14
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Mr. Nice! posted:I've never held back on butcher's block and our war OT doesnt either and we've cleared every raid tier. We also don't do any tank swap openings because it isnt really necessary and our dark knight is lazy and stays in grit most of the time. Well there you go, your DRK is doing 20% less damage so your WAR can do 1% more damage. Even more extreme if you account for Blood Weapon. Clearly a worthy tradeoff. Granted, there's also the survivability benefits of Grit to consider so they'll probably want to be using it at least some of the time, so it's not a full 20% loss compared to potential. But I'm pretty sure that ideally they'd spend more than 5% of their time outside of Grit, even if they wouldn't necessarily spend 100% of their time outside of Grit.
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Jan 1, 2017 17:27
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We also have a ninja so enmity is never really an issue. When stormsblood hits our drk is switching to RDM and I'm being forced to tank so we'll have a PLD MT instead and I'll be keeping RoH up anyways for the physical damage down most of the time so the war can BB away. It really just seems like the BB thing is only an issue with dark knight MTs. I had never came across it before. I'm pretty sure we end up with more healer DPS than most groups thanks to our turtle. Either way we never have problems with DPS checks, but that might be just because we have good dps players.
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Jan 1, 2017 17:43
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So is there anything I should be doing with tomestones of poetics after getting a full set of ironworks armor and enhancing the ironworks weapon? They are really starting to build up from the beast quests and daily roulette.
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Jan 1, 2017 17:43
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And if enmity isn't an issue for whatever reason (be it ninja, or safer MTing strats, or what have you), then by all means BB away. The main point is that if enmity is close, close enough that you're not really sure whether or not BB will pull aggro, WAR OT should drop BB and stick to SE spam for a negligible decrease in damage.
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Jan 1, 2017 17:45
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ParliamentOfDogs posted:So is there anything I should be doing with tomestones of poetics after getting a full set of ironworks armor and enhancing the ironworks weapon? They are really starting to build up from the beast quests and daily roulette. They can buy mats to use for crystal sands for your 240 relic (5 thavnarian mist & 5 superior enchanted ink - 450 poetics total), buy yourself all of the minions/mounts/songs/whatever else is for sale that isn't gear, and then you can use it to buy just whatever. When I'm not working on the relic I desynth ironworks gear. I made a few million at the start of the patch desynthing ironworks shields.
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Jan 1, 2017 17:45
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Thanks, I'll start banking it on those materials. I will say about the only thing this game isn't hooking me on is the crafting so I doubt I'll get involved much in desynthesis. I leveled up goldsmith to get to materia melding only to find out that I also needed to get blacksmith leveled up to 50 to do what I wanted and it just seems like such a chore. Like I actually enjoy grinding out the same style quests every day because you can still explore and the world is super pretty and well designed but crafting you just stick in one spot. Even the gear is as drab as possible. Like give me a steampunk apraisers monocle with cogs or a Chocobo hammer or something.
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Jan 1, 2017 18:08
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ParliamentOfDogs posted:Thanks, I'll start banking it on those materials. I will say about the only thing this game isn't hooking me on is the crafting so I doubt I'll get involved much in desynthesis. I leveled up goldsmith to get to materia melding only to find out that I also needed to get blacksmith leveled up to 50 to do what I wanted and it just seems like such a chore. Like I actually enjoy grinding out the same style quests every day because you can still explore and the world is super pretty and well designed but crafting you just stick in one spot. Even the gear is as drab as possible. Like give me a steampunk apraisers monocle with cogs or a Chocobo hammer or something. Leveling crafting classes is useful for melding and repair, and best of all you don't have to actually DO any crafting to level them. You have daily grand company missions that will give a shitton of experience for just buying vendor whites/dirt cheap MB trash and turning it in. This has the added benefit of basically being an unlimited fountain of GC seals, and up until levels 50-55+ can almost always be a net gil positive venture. Gathering classes are the same way. Just a couple of months of daily GC turn ins and you'll have everything nearly maxed without any real effort on your part other than logging in and clicking a few things.
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Jan 1, 2017 18:16
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Crafters are also easy to level with daily quests from the Ixali (until you hit 50) and Moogle (50-60) beast tribes.
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Jan 1, 2017 18:18
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Well I'll give it another shot. I honestly never thought to just buy the drat things they want. It's good to know there is a better way then forging 500 brass rings in batches of 15 because of inventory constraints.
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Jan 1, 2017 18:24
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Orty posted:Any LS/people on Gilgamesh? Transferred to play with some friends ages ago and they have all since stopped playing. I know that there's at least one person who posts here besides me on Gilga, but I'm not subbed at the moment and I'm not planning on resubbing for 3.5 part 1 at this time. If you're not against paying for another transfer because your friends have stopped, go to Excal and play with everyone else.
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Jan 1, 2017 18:29
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ParliamentOfDogs posted:Well I'll give it another shot. I honestly never thought to just buy the drat things they want. It's good to know there is a better way then forging 500 brass rings in batches of 15 because of inventory constraints. Or you can even ask friendly goons to craft poo poo for you for turn ins. Often times they'll have mats handy and can just crank poo poo out.
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Jan 1, 2017 18:33
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Is there a link thing on Excal? Returning so joined PBC but it'd be nice to stay in touch with as many as possible.
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Jan 1, 2017 18:39
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Digital_Jesus posted:
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Jan 1, 2017 18:50
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fyi we have a drk mt in 10/12, we don't staircase provoke on pull, he doesn't stay in grit past the...first? power slash, and our ot swings butcher blocks like they're going out of style with no apparent problems we do have a ninja tho
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Jan 1, 2017 19:06
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Vil posted:And if enmity isn't an issue for whatever reason (be it ninja, or safer MTing strats, or what have you), then by all means BB away. The main point is that if enmity is close, close enough that you're not really sure whether or not BB will pull aggro, WAR OT should drop BB and stick to SE spam for a negligible decrease in damage. If only I could convince the multiple parselord WAR mains in my static of this. (They don't WAR at the same time usually, they just have extremely set in stone ideas of how WAR OT should work).
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Jan 1, 2017 19:10
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Reiterpallasch posted:fyi we have a drk mt in 10/12, we don't staircase provoke on pull, he doesn't stay in grit past the...first? power slash, and our ot swings butcher blocks like they're going out of style with no apparent problems I actually tried telling him in the past that it was an overall dps loss for him to power slash to compensate for my BBs, but he refused for some dumb reason. And this was before we had a ninja.
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Jan 1, 2017 19:11
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Have any of the LL mentioned things like PLD quality of life improvements (Shield/Sword oath off GCD, Sword Oath adds potency to abilities rather than auto, flash doing damage, etc)?
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Jan 1, 2017 19:12
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I don't think the live letters have really discussed many changes for classes period aside from using 2-3 examples to describe the new interface changes (like Enochian getting a UI element).
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Jan 1, 2017 19:14
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nuru posted:Have any of the LL mentioned things like PLD quality of life improvements (Shield/Sword oath off GCD, Sword Oath adds potency to abilities rather than auto, flash doing damage, etc)? I doubt they do much individually to PLD at low levels vs something for everyone at low levels.
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Jan 1, 2017 19:24
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