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Huge_Midget posted:If it were just me wanting to upgrade over Ivy Bridge, yeah I agree 100% that it wouldn't be worth it. But the Plex server's sudden absence has got my wife breathing down my neck to get a replacement up and running, and I figure hey why not it might be a good excuse to get a new desktop out of it. As long as I keep it under $2000 she doesn't care. I just can't agree with this. I actually have a few Sandy Bridge systems and I consider them pretty slow. Not bad of course, but any modern i3 or i5 tends to destroy them at single threaded stuff.
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Jan 4, 2017 16:36
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Twerk from Home posted:That sounds like overkill, I'm happily running a Plex server on a Haswell NUC that I got refurb for $140, or you could do something cool and build a FreeNAS box to be the Plex server and also have a really fully featured NAS. The 10 year old box that died had roughly 4 TB of storage in it for movies and music. My current Ivy Bridge desktop has 12 TB in it. So even migrating the data I'll still have 8 TB of free space for future media. The Ivy Bridge machine already has Windows 10 Pro running on it, it would be much easier for me to just uninstall all the non essential software on it and install Plex and let it do it's thing. I do need it to be physically hooked up to my home theater receiver via HDMI so that I can use PowerDVD to playback movies and get full 7.1 HD Audio (It's an interesting setup, don't ask). So I'm thinking that being lazy and just building a new desktop for myself is the way to go and retiring my ~4 year old desktop to Plex duties and NAS backup usage.
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Jan 4, 2017 16:41
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redeyes posted:I just can't agree with this. I actually have a few Sandy Bridge systems and I consider them pretty slow. Not bad of course, but any modern i3 or i5 tends to destroy them at single threaded stuff. I'm confused? The old Plex server was a 10 year old Core 2 Quad box with 8 gigs of ram and roughly 4TB of storage.. I'd be replacing it with a ~4 year old Ivy Bridge machine with 16 gigs of ram and 12TB of storage, which should be good for 4k transcoding and have more than enough storage for future use. I'd then build a new desktop for myself for gaming and video editing and likely VR. Probably Kaby Lake, z270, nVidia 10xx series.
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Jan 4, 2017 16:46
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Huge_Midget posted:The 10 year old box that died had roughly 4 TB of storage in it for movies and music. My current Ivy Bridge desktop has 12 TB in it. So even migrating the data I'll still have 8 TB of free space for future media. The Ivy Bridge machine already has Windows 10 Pro running on it, it would be much easier for me to just uninstall all the non essential software on it and install Plex and let it do it's thing. I do need it to be physically hooked up to my home theater receiver via HDMI so that I can use PowerDVD to playback movies and get full 7.1 HD Audio (It's an interesting setup, don't ask). So I'm thinking that being lazy and just building a new desktop for myself is the way to go and retiring my ~4 year old desktop to Plex duties and NAS backup usage. Are you using Windows Storage Spaces for redundancy? How is it? I'm legitimately curious. I got burned by Windows Home Server and have some skepticism of Microsoft SOHO storage.
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Jan 4, 2017 16:52
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Twerk from Home posted:Are you using Windows Storage Spaces for redundancy? How is it? I'm legitimately curious. I got burned by Windows Home Server and have some skepticism of Microsoft SOHO storage. Storage spaces is great and I've never had a problem with it.
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Jan 4, 2017 17:18
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RAIDZ2 is pretty awesome, just saying. Replaced two failing hard drives with no issues or downtime for data, other than briefly being turned off to hook in a new drive.
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Jan 4, 2017 17:32
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Palladium posted:Optane is gonna be the same old thing again: Pretty synthetic benchmarks, but does next to nothing over modern SATA SSDs for 99.9% of people. Huge_Midget posted:Storage spaces is great and I've never had a problem with it. Combat Pretzel fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Jan 4, 2017 |
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Jan 4, 2017 17:54
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Twerk from Home posted:Are you using Windows Storage Spaces for redundancy? How is it? I'm legitimately curious. I got burned by Windows Home Server and have some skepticism of Microsoft SOHO storage. Oh lord the Home Server stuff people were doing with extended volumes is utterly different. Storage Spaces is cluster-able software raid. Combat Pretzel posted:Anything that improves QD1 random 4K throughput would be an improvement. SSDs are currently relatively "bad" at it. Soooo....RAM? Seriously, at least the first generation of Optane looks like it is going to be fuckyou expensive, and as demos and marketing materials continue to disappoint, it's entirely possible RAM will remain proportionally stronger for your bang/buck if your workload consists primarily of QD1 throughput. Potato Salad fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Jan 4, 2017 |
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Jan 4, 2017 17:57
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As a 2500k+ hold out, the minimum frame rate and frame time in that video are impressive. I am running at 4.3GHz but my memory is only DDR3 1600. I am holding out for SkyLake-X, but its finally time.
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Jan 4, 2017 19:01
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I'm gonna wait and see if Zen's interesting or not. Otherwise, I think I'll wait for the next architecture. My 2600k used to run at 4.5GHz, but I've had to back it down to 4.3GHz once it hit around one year of age. I'm on DDR3-1600 too.
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Jan 4, 2017 19:08
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mayodreams posted:As a 2500k+ hold out, the minimum frame rate and frame time in that video are impressive. I am running at 4.3GHz but my memory is only DDR3 1600. I am holding out for SkyLake-X, but its finally time. The difference is impressive, but they're testing with an overclocked Titan X Pascal at 1080p to maximize it which is a bit unrealistic. I'm only using a GTX 1060 and I feel like my 2500K at 4.4 with 16GB DDR3-2133 probably isn't holding it back that much. When the 1100 series/Vega hits I may be motivated to replace the whole rig but until then I'm pretty happy to stay with a CPU that can do around 75% as well as the current top dog and see what comes with Zen and HEDT Skylakes.
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Jan 4, 2017 19:24
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Outside of times in VR where the warping technique pulls the GPU usage down as it drops from 90FPS that it can't maintain to 45FPS which it can, I don't feel that I am CPU limited in anything still at 4.6Ghz with the 980Ti. I still need more GPU oomph from what I can tell for VR at least. (Elite, Project Cars, etc.) For normal games, at 1440P I have no issues, but I may if I ever pull the trigger on a Ultrawide with Gsync and 100hz. We will see. Is it bad that I am kinda interested in that new 35" HP Omen X 35 from HP?
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Jan 4, 2017 19:33
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HalloKitty posted:7600K vs 6600K vs 2500K in gaming. I already said this about this video in another thread but I feel like it's really important to note that this is at 1080p with an overclocked Titan X Pascal. Almost no one running Sandy Bridge is going to have a powerful enough graphics card to expose the kind of differences you see in this video. If you do have a Titan X Pascal with a 2500K, well, maybe you should have considered Skylake with a 1080 instead.
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Jan 4, 2017 22:54
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Eletriarnation posted:I already said this about this video in another thread but I feel like it's really important to note that this is at 1080p with an overclocked Titan X Pascal. Almost no one running Sandy Bridge is going to have a powerful enough graphics card to expose the kind of differences you see in this video. If you do have a Titan X Pascal with a 2500K, well, maybe you should have considered Skylake with a 1080 instead. But running with a Titan XP emphasises the bottleneck on the CPU, no? We're not talking a price balanced setup, just a comparison where the CPU difference is brought the forefront.
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Jan 4, 2017 23:11
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Yes, absolutely. I don't think it's an invalid result, just that people should realize it's intentionally maximizing a certain effect and can't be used as a general indicator of how good a 2500K is for gaming vs. a 7600K. Most people with 2500Ks will not be pushing the bottleneck onto the CPU this hard and it would be unfortunate for them to upgrade expecting these types of gains if they have merely a low-end or midrange GPU.
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Jan 4, 2017 23:28
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HalloKitty posted:But running with a Titan XP emphasises the bottleneck on the CPU, no? Yes, that's exactly his point: the scenario required to actually expose those CPU differences is nearing pants-on-head retarded, and in actual practice as implemented by sane people the differences will be nowhere near as drastic. Kind of like how some setups kill at synthetic benchmarks, but in actual use aren't nearly as impressive as the benchmarks would have lead you to believe. Except in this case the benchmarks require you to have a $1500 GPU where a $250 one would do just fine. Or dropping a Hemi engine into a Pinto and then noting that doing so really exposes the weakness of the Pinto's frame compared with a F-350: True, but also close to irrelevant for actual consumers. DrDork fucked around with this message at 23:32 on Jan 4, 2017 |
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Jan 4, 2017 23:28
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evilweasel posted:I have basically that exact same computer with a modern graphics card and although I really really want to replace it because its case is enormous, I can't come up with any possible justification to do so. There's just not really any benefit to Kaby Lake for a desktop over Sandy Bridge, let alone Ivy Bridge. So going to a 6700k from a 3570k wouldn't be worth it if you wanted to do things that would need multiple threads?
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Jan 4, 2017 23:39
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I'm keeping an eye out for benchmarks against an overclocked 2600K, but outside of the (admittedly great) benefits that come from going from a P67 to literally anything else, I think I'm still holding out because KBL isn't going to blow open new doors for me in terms of tasks I can perform. I can still do 4K video, still develop under Visual Studio, still game, etc, with very little productivity losses from builds / compiles taking slightly longer. It's actually hard to justify sometimes considering most of my builds are running on some 32 thread monstrosity in a data center somewhere. Occasionally I sigh and wish I could use my IGP for secondary monitors instead of my GTX 1080, but that's more headroom for the CPU to fling out heat. e: Maybe VR will be the next paradigm that straight up requires new CPUs, but considering the install base of consoles and Nehalem and newer machines, it's asking a lot of people to upgrade. movax fucked around with this message at 23:52 on Jan 4, 2017 |
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Jan 4, 2017 23:50
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I think, if Xpoint ever actually becomes a good thing (for consumers) then maybe that could be the kicker I need to actually care to upgrade past SB-E. Like you said Movax, going from X79/P67 or so to something with native USB 3.0/3.1 an Nvme storage support would be nice, but isn't essential just yet. VR isn't really CPU limited as it is GPU limited with the 90FPS requirement. Guess we have at least the 1st half of 2017 to see, but the only thing I can see myself possibly getting is a 1080Ti as I doubt Nvidia will drop a new GPU later this year unless AMD pulls out a whopper. 
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Jan 4, 2017 23:58
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Huge_Midget posted:Storage spaces is great and I've never had a problem with it. There are a few odd quirks which I found out the hard way. It doesn't let you force add old drives marked as failed to an array. Sounds good right? We all know someone who will ignore a failed drive ("but its new!"), and right click readd it, which is definitely not good practise. I ran into this problem when first started using Storage Spaces & setup a test mirror array to see how it behaved. I removed one disk to simulate a failure, formatted it in a different machine, and tried to add it back to the array. Cant do it. Storage spaces fingerprints each harddrive (some way other than its serial) and will not let you use it again, since when it went missing that hard drive hash was marked as bad. So I've now got a good 5TB drive I cant add to an array or use to create a new one. There's probably a way, but I couldn't find it at the time
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Jan 4, 2017 23:59
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The biggest reasons I've had to upgrade from my E3-1230 Xeon is that you're limited in either RAM capacity (going over 32GB is a no-go typically without RDIMMs or an E5-class CPU) or your PCI-e bus for features like USB 3.1 and NVMe. My 4790k's Z97 chipset is slightly held back by the PCI-e lane restrictions on the m.2 slot there, but unless I start needing to pump 1 GBps+ in writes and reads I probably won't even notice the bottleneck there either. Power consumption improvements don't hurt, but we're looking at marginal utility of cutting power on CPU and even a CPU that uses 0 watts at load will mostly be useful for shoving more compute in a box or for giving more headroom to a GPU that has non-zero power use.
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Jan 5, 2017 00:26
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EdEddnEddy posted:I think, if Xpoint ever actually becomes a good thing (for consumers) then maybe that could be the kicker I need to actually care to upgrade past SB-E. Cheap Haswell-E equivalent cores on whatever Zen's platform is going to be is the kicker for me. I have a feeling if Zen sucks I'll just end up grabbing a 3930K off eBay to replace this 3820 and hope that tides me over until Zen 2 or whatever the next thing is that Intel produces and is actually a worthy upgrade arrives.
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Jan 5, 2017 00:28
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I'm praying for the snowball's chance in hell that the Zen will cause Intel to push the price of a 6900K down a little before summer. If the price is same or slightly less than a Zen+mainboard, that's a actually win.
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Jan 5, 2017 00:40
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movax posted:I'm keeping an eye out for benchmarks against an overclocked 2600K, but outside of the (admittedly great) benefits that come from going from a P67 to literally anything else, I think I'm still holding out because KBL isn't going to blow open new doors for me in terms of tasks I can perform. I can still do 4K video, still develop under Visual Studio, still game, etc, with very little productivity losses from builds / compiles taking slightly longer. It's actually hard to justify sometimes considering most of my builds are running on some 32 thread monstrosity in a data center somewhere. http://techreport.com/review/31179/intel-core-i7-7700k-kaby-lake-cpu-reviewed/14
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Jan 5, 2017 01:17
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DrDork posted:Yes, that's exactly his point: the scenario required to actually expose those CPU differences is nearing pants-on-head retarded, and in actual practice as implemented by sane people the differences will be nowhere near as drastic. I doubt anybody distinguish a 5GHz 7700K from a i3 6100 on a RX470 level card when Russian Youtube PC testers show that one has to go back to a 10 year old Q6600 before dipping below 30 fps on a GTX 970 in the latest AssCreed.
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Jan 5, 2017 03:41
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Potato Salad posted:Oh lord the Home Server stuff people were doing with extended volumes is utterly different. Storage Spaces is cluster-able software raid. NVME flash storage with accelerators will probably be a much better bang/buck for really large datasets in the near future. Hanging 48 or 64 flash channels off a PCI-E 4x or 8x slot will give you all the QD1 you can stand, for a price a shitton less than registered ECC 128GB DIMMs.
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Jan 5, 2017 04:04
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Ja. I interpreted the question as asking for something not already here / more concretely on the horizon. I'd agree that multichannel nvme would be way to go for most cases, but for someone to whom the 3x, 5x, ?x price of 3dxpoint over nand may look attractive for the order of magnitude reduction in latency for qd1, you might as well go full RAM for 10x the price of nand for two orders of magnitude latency reduction and far more mature tech.
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Jan 5, 2017 05:07
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Potato Salad posted:...you might as well go full RAM for 10x the price of nand for two orders of magnitude latency reduction and far more mature tech. Unless you're also the sort of user who needs a good bit more than the 128GB of space a single-socket system can reasonably provide, at which point things may swing back towards 3DXPoint. What sort of application would need that and still hang it off of a single socket, I don't know, but I'm sure there's one out there.
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Jan 5, 2017 05:32
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Pretty much agreed. Someone insisting the performance of their 90s line of business application whose only saving grace is not being on a/s 400 anymore comes to mind. In desktop space though? Can't think of actual use for ramdisk or even anything more powerful than nvme at the moment for home / gaming / well-designed enterprise applications. Sure, my hpc environment is oogling 3dxpoint like its, well, something worth oogling. That's a very specific use case with career hpc engineers whose PhDs were focused on simulation methodology or stuff like climate or biophysics research. By nature of the specialization involved, its largely out of scope for discussion where the original constraint is "single die."
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Jan 5, 2017 06:26
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My 2500k setup finally died and I've been waiting on Kaby Lake just to see if it was worth it. It's so depressing having to spend all this money for barely any performance gain.
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Jan 5, 2017 10:21
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Combat Pretzel posted:How's the situation regarding balancing drives in a pool these days? The last time I ran storage spaces, it really acted like an idiot when it came to allocating space. Say you have two disks in one and use a simple space, fill the pool to 50% (i.e. each disk to 50%), then add a third and keep filling it, the allocations were spread across three disks immediately, instead of bringing the new one up to 50% first. This would end up with a situation where the first two are at 100% with the third one at 50%, which is stupid when you're also running mirrors in the pool. Deal with a 300TB Clustered Storage Space on Windows Server 2012 R2 here. On R2 this still sucks, good news is that Windows 10 and Server 2016 have rebalancing when adding a new drive or via powershell. dud root posted:There are a few odd quirks which I found out the hard way. It doesn't let you force add old drives marked as failed to an array. Sounds good right? We all know someone who will ignore a failed drive ("but its new!"), and right click readd it, which is definitely not good practise. Likely just needed some powershell magic, because the disk probably still exists in the pool metadata. Get the physical disk name, mark the drive as retired in the pool, repair the virtual disk, then remove the physical disk. After that you should be able to add the disk back into the pool if your sure its a good drive.
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Jan 5, 2017 12:07
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Spermanent Record posted:My 2500k setup finally died and I've been waiting on Kaby Lake just to see if it was worth it. It's so depressing having to spend all this money for barely any performance gain. Get good ram and you'll have a good performance gain!
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Jan 5, 2017 15:26
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Gwaihir posted:Get good ram and you'll have a good performance gain! Got some of that 3000mhz cl15 when it was$85 so I'm pretty excited about that. I'm just waiting to see how the 6600k 7600k prices shake out in the next few days and possibly, but almost certainly not, thinking about the i7 too. 2500k was such an amazing processor! If you were only planning on buying one every 6-7 years what would you order tomorrow?
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Jan 5, 2017 15:30
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If my 2500K desktop died today, I'd probably try to get by on my laptop and old i7-920 system until Zen comes out and get a 7600K or 6800K if Zen ends up being underwhelming. It looks like between clock speeds and IPC improvements going 2500K->7600K may be around a 25% improvement, but I'd rather not build yet another quad-core machine 8 years after my first.
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Jan 5, 2017 15:43
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Da Mott Man posted:Deal with a 300TB Clustered Storage Space on Windows Server 2012 R2 here. On R2 this still sucks, good news is that Windows 10 and Server 2016 have rebalancing when adding a new drive or via powershell. You using NTFS or ReFS? If NTFS, how often are you running a chkdsk and how long does that take for 300TB? Wowza. Spermanent Record posted:2500k was such an amazing processor! If you were only planning on buying one every 6-7 years what would you order tomorrow? Same as the last time around, 7600K is the smart buy for most users. If you want to spend more money then choose between an old platform and a 6800K or 6850K, or just paying up for those high stock clocks with the 7700K. Edit: Yeah Zen could be good, but if it's good it won't be cheap and if it's cheap then it isn't good.
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Jan 5, 2017 15:44
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Isn't today the day retailers can list Kaby Lake stuff? I'm not seeing anything yet....
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Jan 5, 2017 15:47
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Kaddish posted:Isn't today the day retailers can list Kaby Lake stuff? I'm not seeing anything yet.... I saw 7600Ks available for order on Newegg yesterday, did it get pulled down? Everybody should really be waiting to see Zen, though!
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Jan 5, 2017 15:52
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I think that in hindsight Sandy Bridge (and maybe when the Core 2 Duo chips first came out a few years prior with the E8400) was a pretty clear anomaly in the scheme of processor upgrades and that the first couple decades of computing made each new processor noticeably different but we're encountering diminishing returns where even halving the size of a chip wouldn't result in 25% IPC gains and there's now other places to better focus dollars for aggregate performance. This is obviously not good for Intel or consumers but it does give AMD some room to catch up I'd imagine
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Jan 5, 2017 16:03
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Intel could make a cpu with the same die size as i7 920.. and cram like 12 cores+ extra cache if they ditch the gpu, to the same size. Why not..?
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Jan 5, 2017 16:12
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They do, it's called an E5/E7 Xeon and costs a lot. The top end is 24 cores actually.
Eletriarnation fucked around with this message at 16:19 on Jan 5, 2017 |
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Jan 5, 2017 16:14
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