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Jyn is way more Trump than Clinton.
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Jan 6, 2017 02:54
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Rogue One first thoughts (I didn't see a Rogue One thread) analysis of the entire plot, so read at your own peril. First thoughts about the film: I loved Rogue One and I thought it had a really good running theme that was awesome. The Destructive ambition for power will bring your own downfall. We see this in Rogue One manifest in a few ways, and I refuse to believe it kept happening for no reason. Like even the opening credits we get that Harry Potter-esque "By murdering this dude's family you're creating an enemy larger then ever before," thing that comes up. As the movie goes on we see that the Empire's need to kill and destroy only back fires, when 6 imperial storm troopers fire on a single unarmed monk. They end up killing themselves and defeating their chance to capture and stop the rebellion. It goes on later in the film when we see Tarkin forcing the director's hand, which causes him to lash out unpredictably. The Rebel Alliance tries to be destructive, fighting the empire the way the empire was fighting them, and they end up destroying a huge asset, and almost kill another. Another example, is when the rebel alliance shows up to blow up the planet shield thingy. If the Director wasn't on Edo, there wouldn't have been two star destroyers hovering over the planet, and their plan to crash one into the other (and both into the gate) wouldn't have worked! The Director ended up dooming the protection of the Death Star Plans, (which was the only way to find out about the Death Star's glowing weakness, because The Director had killed all the Engineers,) and Tarkin cemented it. He was so desperate to stop the transmission of the plans, he blew up the only copy of them they had. With that mistake he had doomed the Death Star, and the Imperial Forces to defeat by the alliance. If he hadn't blown up the planet, they could have found the hole and plugged it, but they're need for utter destruction and absolutes was too great. I thought this was a really clever film, and I'm stoked to see #8. Thoughts?
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Jan 6, 2017 02:59
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edit: nm
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Jan 6, 2017 02:59
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Thinking about the trailer for Rogue One, the part I liked most was when some character says "the Force is strong." It cemented the central theme of the trailer as being about a Star Wars in which "with this one" is removed from the messianic myth and invested in the people. If that line, or at least theme, is still in the movie, I think I'll find something to enjoy. (It's me, I'm the person who gives the least shits about spoilers).
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Jan 6, 2017 03:08
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Turtlicious posted:Rogue One first thoughts (I didn't see a Rogue One thread) analysis of the entire plot, so read at your own peril. I agree with everything you said and also the visual imagery was top notch . For example the sward of green separating Odin from empire on the otherwise barren planet.
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Jan 6, 2017 03:11
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Hodgepodge posted:Thinking about the trailer for Rogue One, the part I liked most was when some character says "the Force is strong." It cemented the central theme of the trailer as being about a Star Wars in which "with this one" is removed from the messianic myth and invested in the people. If that line, or at least theme, is still in the movie, I think I'll find something to enjoy. That's a line said by Chirrut Imwe (Donnie Yen) I'm not 100% when he says it or the context but he does say it. He's primarily the guy who talks about The Force at any length in Rogue One.
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Jan 6, 2017 03:17
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The appearance of the Death Star causes most of the politicians supporting the Rebellion to waver because they don't believe they can win any longer.
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Jan 6, 2017 03:19
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AndyElusive posted:That's a line said by Chirrut Imwe (Donnie Yen) I'm not 100% when he says it or the context but he does say it. He's primarily the guy who talks about The Force at any length in Rogue One. Is he the Guardian of the Whills dude who kind of comes off as a Jedi in the trailer?
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Jan 6, 2017 03:25
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Nielsen posted:I specifically highlighted that piece White wrote about the liberal appropriation of the hope bit because I couldn't have put it better into words myself like White and SMG did above. It's very hard to criticize neoliberalism and be wrong, and it's impossible to defend it and be correct.
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Jan 6, 2017 03:25
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Jack Gladney posted:It's very hard to criticize neoliberalism and be wrong, and it's impossible to defend it and be correct. We laugh at the ancient Chinese notion of a "mandate of heaven," but only in the past 70-odd years have people been so foolish as to believe good government impossible.
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Jan 6, 2017 03:28
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Hodgepodge posted:Is he the Guardian of the Whills dude who kind of comes off as a Jedi in the trailer? Yes. One of the reasons I really like Rogue One is that it implicitly supports a lot of the ideas that are hinted at but never elaborated on in the main series (which SMG takes and runs with in hilarious and interesting ways, which is why he is My Favourite Poster) - the two biggest ones being that the Force is a universal concept beyond 'some dudes can lift things with their minds', and the other being that droids are people too. Like, pretty much everyone I've talked to about Rogue One thinks K2-SO is the best character. Roger roger.
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Jan 6, 2017 03:41
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Krennic was the best character with KS20 being second best thank you
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Jan 6, 2017 03:42
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Yeah, from the games and EU, "Diagnostics" can be an absolutely horrible thing to do to a droid, and many people don't do it. Since it tends to involve "smoothing over" any personality quirks. Droids who are allowed to do their own maintenance R2, C3P0 and the like, will have more character and be more alive, while those who don't are just mindless machines. You can see it when the two droids pass each other in the space station one has an incredibly mechanical walk, and the other moves more human.
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Jan 6, 2017 03:48
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Krennic's delivery of "It's beautiful" juxtaposed against the scenes on the ground elevated what would have normally been a cliche line to a hilariously ironic moment. Like, he's obviously in awe, impressed, and even surprised by it, but he only sees it from the perspective of that view screen, thousands of miles away. From that perspective it looks like this gorgeous, blooming flower. Of course from the Rebels perspective it's a massive shockwave and miles-high cloud of debris that consumes everything, especially all of those poor folk we saw wandering around the city before the fight breaks out. I do genuinely like Krennic's character, though. I swear to god, I think he actually SMIRKS after Vader's pun, despite the fact that it was at his expense.
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Jan 6, 2017 03:59
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Mecha Gojira posted:Krennic's delivery of "It's beautiful" juxtaposed against the scenes on the ground elevated what would have normally been a cliche line to a hilariously ironic moment. Like, he's obviously in awe, impressed, and even surprised by it, but he only sees it from the perspective of that view screen, thousands of miles away. From that perspective it looks like this gorgeous, blooming flower. I caught that too! Being choked out was some weird acknowledgement of his position, which really layers some stuff on Krennic but I won't kinkshame
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Jan 6, 2017 04:01
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Mecha Gojira posted:I do genuinely like Krennic's character, though. Agreed. I read lots of people say he's a bland villian but I really liked him as the bad guy and the scene you're describing ("oh, it's beautiful") was the moment when that was solidified for me. I had almost all the same thoughts during that moment too.
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Jan 6, 2017 04:04
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also the super fake "Ohhh.....my condolences" then the flashback when he's having a drink with Madds Mikkelson and Mrs. Madds Mikkelson all happy like. Dude is a real snake
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Jan 6, 2017 04:08
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I feel like anyone who says Rogue One didn't have any characterization didn't watch the movie. I don't need a lengthy backstory on Krennic to know who he is. I just need to see him get into pissing matches with his bosses and smile when Vader-sempai notices him. Hell, everything you really need to know about the guy you can gleam from his costume, or his ship's aesthetics, or his personal Death Troopers. He's the only Imperial we see wearing white, and aside from Vader, the only one who wears a cape. His stormtroopers have striking black armor to distinguish them from their white-clad brethren. He flies around in a one-of-a-kind shuttle; even Vader uses the classic Return of the Jedi Lambda, which had to have been mass-produced and relatively common for the plan on Endor work. He stands out from everyone but wants everyone, especially Vader and the Emperor, to praise his accomplishments. The "Oh, my condolences part," works really well with when he sees her "return from the dead." He doesn't even try to hide his lack of surprise.
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Jan 6, 2017 04:18
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Trooper #457: "So what was he like? What you expected?" Krennic: "Better, I got all choked up."
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Jan 6, 2017 04:23
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ungulateman posted:Yes. That's awesome. Those are themes which were lacking in the prequel trilogy, albeit for legitimate reasons. (The more I think about it, the prequel trilogy is Star Wars' Dune Messiah).
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Jan 6, 2017 04:23
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Krennic also has the line at the beginning: "They have a child! Find it!" Calling a kid "it" is sort of cold no matter what, but then in the flashback you see that he's actually met Jyn fairly recently and must at least know that the child is a "she." He just doesn't care about her at all, aside from knowing there's another person in the family that distracts his star engineer from his work.
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Jan 6, 2017 04:44
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Back on the subject of RLM, I caught another one of their misdirections. In their AoTC review, they talk about how lovely CGI is because Ewan can't get a shocked reaction to Grevious revealing all his hands and lightsabers. But they don't show the next cut of Obiwan's smug smirk reaction. Obiwan's not shocked or scared. In his mind, he's got this one in the bag. That's even discounting all their interactions in The Clone Wars series.
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Jan 6, 2017 04:44
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Almost all of Krennic's lines in the prologue are gold. And it's not so much the writing as it is Mendelsohn's delivery; there's such a sardonic quality to it that ends up making the whole interaction oddly refreshing for a typical Star Wars villain/hero dialogue exchange.
Cross-Section fucked around with this message at 05:01 on Jan 6, 2017 |
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Jan 6, 2017 04:54
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:To be very clear: Armond White's very accurate concern, with Rogue One, is that it is easily appropriated by the unselfaware liberals who still perceive themselves as the underdog heroes. Right, there's no danger of that whatsoever. I am so loving sick of being told who is and isn't a true revolutionary by people who haven't done a drat thing in their lives to bring said revolution about.
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Jan 6, 2017 04:57
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Maxwell Lord posted:Right, there's no danger of that whatsoever. At this point, I'm also rather skeptical of men scolding women and calling them children for enjoying a power fantasy.
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Jan 6, 2017 05:11
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Magic Hate Ball posted:Jyn is way more Trump than Clinton. She's really neither, which perhaps accounts for why fans suddenly* have immense difficulty understanding traditional Star Wars characterization. To be very clear: Rogue One is about the daughter of a Serizawa-like engineer working under government contract, part of Space America's Space Military- Industrial Complex. Jyn feels that Galen has betrayed her mother's leftist ideals by allowing himself to be caught up in the system. (Remember: Mama Erso chose to die rather than allow the Empire to obtain their research.) Before the film even begins, Jyn has spent roughly a decade as an insurgent and traitor - performing raids and small-scale attacks on projects that her father may very well have worked on. She only quits the insurgency because it is too ineffectual - fractured and paranoid. But she sees no other alternatives. The death of her mother and the failure of her two father-figures has left Jyn jaded and cynical. In other words, Jyn stands for the state of the Left as such. Not the fuckin' Center. Luke and Anakin treat their servants well. When Jyn encounters a slave, she tries to give him a handgun. At no point does Jyn support the Rebellion. She speaks entirely in terms of how the Rebellion can help her. When Bodhi mows down a bunch of Imperials and K says "you're a Rebel now.", do you realize just how dark and dryly witty that is? That's the litmus test the film provides. *The truth is, of course, that fans never understood it - such basic things as droids being people, Obiwan being a liar, Vader being the truly ethical hero, Luke attempting suicide... It's ideology at work.
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Jan 6, 2017 05:12
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euphronius posted:For example the sward of green separating Odin from empire on the otherwise barren planet. My Girlfriend and I were discussing this, and she posited that everyone who stood on the black sand in that scene went on to commit massive amounts of violence (Jyn included,) while the Scientist resigned himself to a peaceful existence creating weapons. In the same way with science, he brought life to the planet, he brought life back to the galaxy. I love this film so much.
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Jan 6, 2017 05:16
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Mecha Gojira posted:I don't need a lengthy backstory on Krennic to know who he is. I just need to see him get into pissing matches with his bosses and smile when Vader-sempai notices him. Hell, everything you really need to know about the guy you can gleam from his costume, or his ship's aesthetics, or his personal Death Troopers. He's the only Imperial we see wearing white, and aside from Vader, the only one who wears a cape. His stormtroopers have striking black armor to distinguish them from their white-clad brethren. He flies around in a one-of-a-kind shuttle; even Vader uses the classic Return of the Jedi Lambda, which had to have been mass-produced and relatively common for the plan on Endor work. He stands out from everyone but wants everyone, especially Vader and the Emperor, to praise his accomplishments. Ya, Mendelsohn was on The Star Wars Show leading up to the realease of the movie and they have him go into detail on Krennics personal laser gun. Even his side arm is an old-style one of a kind blaster. The dude was ostentatious as gently caress. Like you said, from his bodyguards, to his ship (which was also an older, not widely manufactured shuttle), to his uniform down to his gun.
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Jan 6, 2017 05:20
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Maxwell Lord posted:Right, there's no danger of that whatsoever. Correct. Your politics are not radical. You are the Republic. To be frank: you have to be very stupid to watch a movie where the characters have been fighting a prolonged battle against space-Imperialism in the space-Mideast, for over two decades, and conclude that this represents Clinton's recent martyrdom at the hands of redneck supernazi misogyny.
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Jan 6, 2017 05:29
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That opening photography really was something else - and it was so suitably weird. I love the choice of how to block the rings of the gas giant at first just so there could be this 'platform' or 'level' effect against this oblong, origami-like ship coasting through nothing. Maybe it was just anecdotes, but a lot of cats made it seem like they were more into the film by the second or third act, but I thought the first act was really spellbinding. My favorite part is that Whitaker is basically playing a Rebel-version of Darth Vader.
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Jan 6, 2017 05:30
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There are some pretty dark moments that people like to forget in the original trilogy. Like when Leia decides that Tatooine is an "acceptable loss" to spare Alderaan, that isn't exactly a shining moment.
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Jan 6, 2017 05:32
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Hodgepodge posted:There are some pretty dark moments that people like to forget in the original trilogy. Like when Leia decides that Tatooine is an "acceptable loss" to spare Alderaan, that isn't exactly a shining moment. I thought she said Dantooine, or something like that.
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Jan 6, 2017 05:36
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Correct. So yeah all those stories about hate crimes increasing in the wake of the election are fake. Literal Nazis being appointed to cabinet positions will hurt nobody. There are in fact people who will not survive this administration. People who will not survive the attacks on Planned Parenthood, Muslims, affordable healthcare, the environment, etc. It does in fact matter who is in control of this poo poo. To dismiss this speaks of a profound lack of empathy, and I don't care how much leftist righteousness you cloak it in.
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Jan 6, 2017 05:40
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Realizing young Carrie Fisher as a CGI blob monster who actually comes off as more frightening than CGI blob monster Peter Cushing is another highlight - it's extremely disruptive to immersion, but it's also compelling in that way. It's a 'brute address' that reminds you of how film artifice has moved completely beyond simulation of the foreign and exotic and back again towards just basic familiarity. The point is not Princess Leia never appears in the film as anything other than a hologram. It's scandalizing because it's simultaneously weighted with connotations of raising (or disgracing) the dead and cloning, of celebrity and wax museum - but it's also completely appropriate as a way to cut the Star Wars cult down to size. Leia is no different than the Cthulhu shlub who shares Jyn's cell. This movie owned bones, Edwards learned all the right lessons from Lucas's aesthetic and expanded upon them through his own particularist lens, and we now have to deal with this rather subtly confrontational piece of pop art that is explicitly about how none of the pageantry of A New Hope 'matters.' This story of a radical sectarian group carrying out a suicide mission is despoiled immediately by the knowledge that some ghost hologram lady in white is going to carry it on to a conclusion which is modeled after Triumph of the Will.
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Jan 6, 2017 05:42
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I don't think that the CGI heads were particularly monstrous.
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Jan 6, 2017 05:44
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If anything R1 is a story about a radical fringe taking over a larger movement by forcing action. They're Bolsheviks.
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Jan 6, 2017 05:45
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LesterGroans posted:I thought she said Dantooine, or something like that. You're right. Although I think I like it better when I thought it was Tantooine, I guess the idea of her offering up a remote planet much like Luke's was close enough without making her enough of a jerk that she isn't sympathetic when Alderaan is destroyed.
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Jan 6, 2017 05:46
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TheLoquid posted:If anything R1 is a story about a radical fringe taking over a larger movement by forcing action. They're Bolsheviks. The thing is, though, the Radical Fringe literally went on a Suicide Mission. They can no longer lead the larger movement; they're all dead. Even Admiral Fishguy. It just pushed the already militant faction (ironically lead by Bail Organa of "pacifist" Alderaan) to move up its time table.
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Jan 6, 2017 05:49
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Phi230 posted:Krennic was the best character with KS20 being second best thank you Krennic was surprisingly excellent, and nearly a tragic character despite how self serving and gosh darn evil he was. There's a real dramatic irony in the scene where he executes the Imperial scientists who designed the Death Star. Now that the machine is built, he correctly deduces that they are expendable. What he fails to recognize (or fails to accept) is that the very same principle applies to him. The Empire was never going to trust such an anxious man with their weapon. He was doomed from the start. K. Waste posted:That opening photography really was something else - and it was so suitably weird. I love the choice of how to block the rings of the gas giant at first just so there could be this 'platform' or 'level' effect against this oblong, origami-like ship coasting through nothing. Maybe it was just anecdotes, but a lot of cats made it seem like they were more into the film by the second or third act, but I thought the first act was really spellbinding. My favorite part is that Whitaker is basically playing a Rebel-version of Darth Vader. The visuals, and especially the establishing shots in particular, were absolutely on point throughout. I really dug the first act just for the sheer variety of different and beautiful locations.
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Jan 6, 2017 05:51
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Maxwell Lord posted:So yeah all those stories about hate crimes increasing in the wake of the election are fake. Literal Nazis being appointed to cabinet positions will hurt nobody. The dude's gimmick is that he barely has empathy when talking about fiction, so I'm not sure why you would expect any better.
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Jan 6, 2017 05:52
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