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Denis
Apr 8, 2015

Klyith posted:

CCP more or less declared this to be an EULA violation, in that incredibly weaselly way they do when they write the rule super-broad but then say they will selectively enforce it and won't confirm or deny any specifics.

The rule is that you can't use overlays that cut selected portions of an eve window and re-display them. CCP's semi-official tool, eve-o preview, is ok because it replicates the whole client screen. Ontopreplica is not because it can show just your local window or whatever.

IMO they were after isboxer much more than ontopreplica -- in particular the isboxer setups for bombing or whatever that make a mockery of their "no input broadcasting" rule. But anything that modifies the screen or sends input to eve is potentially bannable. OTR qualifies. Basically CCP seyz get a 2nd monitor.


(And the tools that read intel chat for you and do an alert when hostiles are nearby are ok.)

is there actual any way they can track ontopreplica ? it doesnt seem to interfeer much with eve

About local it is indeed very usefull .... its not about having more monitors but having information concentrated in a comfortable place in your view is way better.
:/ So if i use ontopreplica and replicate all the screen in theory it''s fine.

Sounds stupid how they try to make "switching windows" look like gameplay .

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Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week

Denis posted:

is there actual any way they can track ontopreplica ? it doesnt seem to interfeer much with eve

It is not difficult for a program to get a list of other running programs and their active methods. If CCP wanted to look for OTR, they could detect it. But I'm pretty sure, without using the "click forward" feature of OTR (which I don't think works in any case), they would need to actively look for it. I think, anyways. OTR gets it's window picture from the window manager, not by hooking into the application it's displaying, and plenty of legit apps would do the same thing.

It's one of those things that I think is 98% safe but that 2% chance I'm wrong is not worth taking. Especially when you can do other things to get the same result.

Ynglaur
Oct 9, 2013

The Malta Conference, anyone?
OTE does not touch the EVE client. It just uses the Windkws-provided preview functionality. Same as the Taskbar and Win+Tab.

Mekchu
Apr 10, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Re: Grath's Marauders, this is a fit he used that caused a Chimera to burn out its guns and require a titan to kill him.

iospace
Jan 19, 2038


Unfunny Poster posted:

Re: Grath's Marauders, this is a fit he used that caused a Chimera to burn out its guns and require a titan to kill him.



I gotta give Grath credit, for such a big (and hated) name in Eve, he does go out solo, which is cool.

Unlike his head :newlol:

Jokes aside, for some odd reason I felt like undocking the Astero to scan the chain today. Ended up with a killmark and a corpse.

Mekchu
Apr 10, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

iospace posted:

I gotta give Grath credit, for such a big (and hated) name in Eve, he does go out solo, which is cool.

Unlike his head :newlol:

Jokes aside, for some odd reason I felt like undocking the Astero to scan the chain today. Ended up with a killmark and a corpse.

Grath actually tends to prefer smaller fleets/solo stuff over the big gently caress off fleet fights. Something about thinking everyone else are idiots or the other.

1001 Arabian dicks
Sep 16, 2013

EVE ONLINE IS MY ENTIRE PERSONALITY BECAUSE IM A FRIENDLESS SEMILITERATE LOSER WHO WILL PEDANTICALLY DEMAND PROOF FOR BASIC THINGS LIKE GRAVITY OR THE EXISTENCE OF SELF. ASK ME ABOUT CHEATING AT TARKOV BECAUSE, WELL, SEE ABOVE

Klyith posted:

*it's potentially worth it to do this in advance, seeing as how amazon has had pricing errors on plex and aurum in the past and having the account ready to go saves you one step in the rush to buy plex for a buck fifty.

or 100 plex for $150

iospace
Jan 19, 2038


Unfunny Poster posted:

Grath actually tends to prefer smaller fleets/solo stuff over the big gently caress off fleet fights. Something about thinking everyone else are idiots or the other.

Something we both agree on then. I like small gang/raiding style pvp over huge tidi fleets, feels more fun to me. But not because I think people are dumb, anyway.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week

Ynglaur posted:

OTE does not touch the EVE client. It just uses the Windkws-provided preview functionality. Same as the Taskbar and Win+Tab.

Touch or not, it can be detected if they set out to do so. The only way to hide the process from eve would be to fully sandbox one or the other. (Don't run eve in a virtual machine, that puts you in the intense scrutiny list. Because botters and hardwareid-banned people typically use VMs.)

As I say, I really doubt they're looking for OTR specifically, or banning people for it now. But using it is taking a chance on a thing they've said is against the rules, which includes any overlay that does not display the entire eve window.

Mekchu
Apr 10, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

iospace posted:

Something we both agree on then. I like small gang/raiding style pvp over huge tidi fleets, feels more fun to me. But not because I think people are dumb, anyway.

Yeah I have started doing the random BS solo roam. Rarely is it ever epic but its fun to welp in a brawling fashion.

Khablam
Mar 29, 2012

Klyith posted:

Touch or not, it can be detected if they set out to do so. The only way to hide the process from eve would be to fully sandbox one or the other. (Don't run eve in a virtual machine, that puts you in the intense scrutiny list. Because botters and hardwareid-banned people typically use VMs.)

As I say, I really doubt they're looking for OTR specifically, or banning people for it now. But using it is taking a chance on a thing they've said is against the rules, which includes any overlay that does not display the entire eve window.

There's no way they can determine what OTR is actually doing, and since it's a legitimate program with legitimate uses, they won't do a thing about it.
You could for example do the same thing with any of the major ways of streaming eve onto twitch, and there's no way they're going to look for and ban that software either.
Against the EULA or not it's unenforceable.

Khablam fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Jan 7, 2017

working mom
Jul 8, 2015

Khablam posted:

There's no way they can determine what OTR is actually doing, and since it's a legitimate program with legitimate uses, they won't do a thing about it.
You could for example do the same thing with any of the major ways of streaming eve onto twitch, and there's no way they're going to look for and bad that software either.
Against the EULA or not it's unenforceable.

Lol if you think :ccp: won't do it anyway to the unlikable groups

Rhymenoserous
May 23, 2008

Unfunny Poster posted:

Re: Grath's Marauders, this is a fit he used that caused a Chimera to burn out its guns and require a titan to kill him.



Haha. I know who dropped him, their comp appears to have been hosed up that night. Way too many loki's on the killmail and either Tib or Zungen shoulda fixed that before letting the fleet undock. Long story short they could have added about 2k more dps on field if they had done what they were supposed to do. Also zungen if you are reading this, letting one pilgrim come along for cap warfare... may not be the worst idea.

2013 me is feeling dirty suggesting that the pilgrim is a ship you should fly.

RazNation
Aug 5, 2015
So whats the story on Citadels?

Has CCP done anything to them other than letting them be couches for pilot's e-peens?

Did they advance the final solution for the POS?

TL;DR......reaction farms still a stick thing?

necrotic
Aug 2, 2005
I owe my brother big time for this!
moon mining and reactions are next, and I believe the last thing remaining.

Wait, cyno gens and bridges too.

Discussion Quorum
Dec 5, 2002
Armchair Philistine

necrotic posted:

moon mining and reactions are next, and I believe the last thing remaining.

Wait, cyno gens and bridges too.

Also insurance.

iospace
Jan 19, 2038


RazNation posted:

So whats the story on Citadels?

Has CCP done anything to them other than letting them be couches for pilot's e-peens?

Did they advance the final solution for the POS?

TL;DR......reaction farms still a stick thing?

They are gift from the gods for wormholers

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer

RazNation posted:

So whats the story on Citadels?

Has CCP done anything to them other than letting them be couches for pilot's e-peens?

Did they advance the final solution for the POS?

TL;DR......reaction farms still a stick thing?

Not for POS exactly, still a bit too early. But the construction of new outposts and the addition of outpost-upgrades have been halted by developer decree. So the time is ticking down. 2 minutes to midnight now for POS.

necrotic
Aug 2, 2005
I owe my brother big time for this!

Discussion Quorum posted:

Also insurance.

last POS* thing.

FranktheBank
May 14, 2007
In the beginning...the universe was created. his has been widely regarded as a bad move and has made a lot of people very angry.

Unfunny Poster posted:

Yeah I have started doing the random BS solo roam. Rarely is it ever epic but its fun to welp in a brawling fashion.

whelped a domi + Brutix navy into a gang of cynabal, oracle, + random poo poo. Was great fun.

Ynglaur
Oct 9, 2013

The Malta Conference, anyone?

necrotic posted:

moon mining and reactions are next, and I believe the last thing remaining.

Wait, cyno gens and bridges too.

Not scheduled until the Fall unfortunately. Spring and summer are going to be light on new content.

RazNation
Aug 5, 2015

iospace posted:

They are gift from the gods for wormholers

Oh I imagine so!

No more worrying about some corp mate stealing everyone's stuff.

I really need to re-sub.

Mekchu
Apr 10, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

FranktheBank posted:

whelped a domi + Brutix navy into a gang of cynabal, oracle, + random poo poo. Was great fun.

I think I'm gonna do a Navy Dominix. I did an Armageddon and that was fun.

FranktheBank
May 14, 2007
In the beginning...the universe was created. his has been widely regarded as a bad move and has made a lot of people very angry.

Unfunny Poster posted:

I think I'm gonna do a Navy Dominix. I did an Armageddon and that was fun.

Ive never tried a navy domi. I dunno about losing that drone tracking bonus.

FruitNYogurtParfait
Mar 29, 2006

Sion lied. Deadtear died for our sins. #VengeanceForDeadtear
#PunGateNeverForget
#ModLivesMatter

FranktheBank posted:

whelped a domi + Brutix navy into a gang of cynabal, oracle, + random poo poo. Was great fun.

please do not give birth to a dominix

Mekchu
Apr 10, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

FranktheBank posted:

Ive never tried a navy domi. I dunno about losing that drone tracking bonus.

I was recommended a blaster + drone fit. MJDs obviously being part of the fit as well.

working mom
Jul 8, 2015

RazNation posted:

Oh I imagine so!

No more worrying about some corp mate stealing everyone's stuff.

I really need to re-sub.

It still makes me sad that does

Multilake
Dec 11, 2016

If you're in a jam, a crayon scrunched under your nose makes a good pretend moustache.

Unfunny Poster posted:

I was recommended a blaster + drone fit. MJDs obviously being part of the fit as well.

In my opinion you basically need an MJD on anything BS related. It's just so important to have an escape button to get away from all this kiting menace that is defining the meta right now.

iospace
Jan 19, 2038


RazNation posted:

Oh I imagine so!

No more worrying about some corp mate stealing everyone's stuff.

I really need to re-sub.

Even though you can't repair like a traditional station, you can still repair without having to undock a repair ship. Also module repairs. And markets!

ullerrm
Dec 31, 2012

Oh, the network slogan is true -- "watch FOX and be damned for all eternity!"

iospace posted:

Even though you can't repair like a traditional station, you can still repair without having to undock a repair ship. Also module repairs. And markets!

On the flip side, no repairing anything that's not fittable to a ship, so your inventory gets clogged with 1% damaged modules that you can't repackage unless you fit them to a ship and undock :\ And no insurance.

But yeah, they're pretty bad rear end otherwise.

Landsknecht
Oct 27, 2009
I hope this person is trolling, nobody can be so unfunny and dumb
citadels need a repair button inside

also being able to dock my nyx is cool

iospace
Jan 19, 2038



Quoting you because I have a question: how are thanatos fit these days? I'm just starting to get into caps, so I'm curious

Landsknecht
Oct 27, 2009
I hope this person is trolling, nobody can be so unfunny and dumb

iospace posted:

Quoting you because I have a question: how are thanatos fit these days? I'm just starting to get into caps, so I'm curious

1 or 2 plates, 2 eanms, dc, 1 or 2 ddas

capital ab, 2 tracking, 2 nav (maybe a capital cap battery)

cyno, nsa, and 3 fsus

use 3 trimark ii rigs

also have a travel fit (3 hyperspatials, bs mwd, 2 istabs, cap rechargers)

use your preferred light fighter, have a few flights of anti-fighter ones, and 2 flights of sirens

iospace
Jan 19, 2038


Landsknecht posted:

1 or 2 plates, 2 eanms, dc, 1 or 2 ddas

capital ab, 2 tracking, 2 nav (maybe a capital cap battery)

cyno, nsa, and 3 fsus

use 3 trimark ii rigs

also have a travel fit (3 hyperspatials, bs mwd, 2 istabs, cap rechargers)

use your preferred light fighter, have a few flights of anti-fighter ones, and 2 flights of sirens

Do fighters operate similar to drones, in that gal does the most damage and minnie is the fastest?

Landsknecht
Oct 27, 2009
I hope this person is trolling, nobody can be so unfunny and dumb

iospace posted:

Do fighters operate similar to drones, in that gal does the most damage and minnie is the fastest?

yes, but it's also about damage type/tracking

if you're in delve just get a pile of amarr fighters, they're good for ratting and pvp

each carrier gets a bonus to it's racial ewar (webs, neuts, tackle, ecm), so the syren/dromi (gal/min) are the best

madjack
Dec 31, 2013
you really dont need t2 trimarks for a thanny

ullerrm
Dec 31, 2012

Oh, the network slogan is true -- "watch FOX and be damned for all eternity!"

iospace posted:

Quoting you because I have a question: how are thanatos fit these days? I'm just starting to get into caps, so I'm curious

There's basically three go-to fits, one with shield buffer and one with armor buffer. You should probably pick whatever one fits best with your alliance, as most sane alliances standardize on either armor or shield.

quote:

[Thanatos, not poo poo shield]

Damage Control II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Omnidirectional Tracking Enhancer II
Omnidirectional Tracking Enhancer II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Capital Shield Extender II
EM Ward Field II
Capital Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Networked Sensor Array
Fighter Support Unit II
Fighter Support Unit II
Fighter Support Unit II
Cynosural Field Generator I

Capital Core Defense Field Extender I
Capital Core Defense Field Extender I
Capital Core Defense Field Extender I

quote:

[Thanatos, armor dual plate]

Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
25000mm Steel Plates II
25000mm Steel Plates II
Federation Navy Drone Damage Amplifier

10000MN Afterburner II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script
Drone Navigation Computer II
Capital Cap Battery II

Cynosural Field Generator I
Fighter Support Unit II
Fighter Support Unit II
Fighter Support Unit II
Networked Sensor Array

Capital Trimark Armor Pump I
Capital Trimark Armor Pump I
Capital Trimark Armor Pump I

Pretty much any capital should have a standard set of mods in their SMA so they can swap out as needed: travel fits, at least two heavy neuts, at least one capital neut, smartbombs, tackle, etc. Follow your alliance instructions there.

That said, if your alliance supports shield capitals and you have Minmatar Carrier trained, I'd suggest getting a Nidhoggur instead of a Thanatos. The former has a fighter velocity bonus, the latter has a hit point bonus; in many situations, fighter travel time is more important.

(General FYI, I've given up on the non-chill thread and unbookmarked it, so if you've got fitting or other questions, ask them here.)

iospace
Jan 19, 2038


ullerrm posted:

There's basically three go-to fits, one with shield buffer and one with armor buffer. You should probably pick whatever one fits best with your alliance, as most sane alliances standardize on either armor or shield.



Pretty much any capital should have a standard set of mods in their SMA so they can swap out as needed: travel fits, at least two heavy neuts, at least one capital neut, smartbombs, tackle, etc. Follow your alliance instructions there.

That said, if your alliance supports shield capitals and you have Minmatar Carrier trained, I'd suggest getting a Nidhoggur instead of a Thanatos. The former has a fighter velocity bonus, the latter has a hit point bonus; in many situations, fighter travel time is more important.

I'm getting a Niddy, actually, but was more curious as to how a Thanatos would be fit for armor. Thanks! I'm probably going to crosstrain into the Lif and whatever the Gallente FAX is (I can't spell it worth a drat).

quote:

(General FYI, I've given up on the non-chill thread and unbookmarked it, so if you've got fitting or other questions, ask them here.)

Don't blame you. It can be... bad.

iospace fucked around with this message at 05:39 on Jan 10, 2017

Viva Miriya
Jan 9, 2007

ullerrm posted:


(General FYI, I've given up on the non-chill thread and unbookmarked it, so if you've got fitting or other questions, ask them here.)

Sorry you felt the need to exile yourself.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

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ullerrm
Dec 31, 2012

Oh, the network slogan is true -- "watch FOX and be damned for all eternity!"

iospace posted:

I'm probably going to crosstrain into the Lif and whatever the Gallente one is (I can't spell it worth a drat).

You may not want to. The Ninazu and Lif both have weird bonuses, and the Ninazu has a really awful slot layout.

Apostle/Minokawa:
* 5% bonus to RR amount
* 4% bonus to resists
* 5% bonus to capacitor size

Lif/Ninazu:
* 5% bonus to RR rate of fire
* 7.5% bonus to active tank amount
* 10% bonus to cap injector amount

So, when it comes to repping stuff in Triage, their niche is that they can cycle their reps fast enough to hopefully land between big packets of damage and prevent you from being alphaed. But in exchange, they use significantly more capacitor for their reps, so they can't keep it up for an entire Triage cycle.

Problem two: In order to make use of that injector bonus, you need to have an injector fitted -- otherwise, not only do you need more cap for your reps, but you have less cap to work with than the Apostle/Minokawa :\ That's not so bad for the armor-tanked Ninazu, but it's pretty bad for the Lif who wants to spend as many mids as possible on shield tank.

Problem three: You can generally get just as much active tank out of an Apostle as you can out of a Ninazu -- resists contribute just as much towards active tanking as an active-tank bonus does. In fact, for any given set of lows, the Apostle ends up being within 2-3k EHP/sec of a Ninazu -- and then does better, because the Apostle has an extra low-slot to work with.

From an FC perspective, given the choice between a Ninazu or Lif and no FAXes at all, I'll take what I can get... but I'd really rather see people in Apostles and Minokawas on average.

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