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Fuzzy Mammal posted:They're not actively tanking it, they're ignoring it. Which is what you do when you are a company that survives on growth and you have a product where growth is impossible. Legacy/Vintage have the most powerful and iconic cards in magic. Saying no one would like it so why show it is a self-fulfilling prophecy. VSL is a pretty popular thing that gets thousands of viewers despite being casted over skype while watching MTGO. They also did 2 print runs of EMA. Do you honestly think there's no money in formats where you can name-drop stuff like Black Lotus or Force of Will? How can a format that people pay thousands of dollars to third parties to play pose no financial opportunities for WotC? e: I get that people with Legacy decks aren't buying new packs to get cards for those decks. But there are people who want to get into eternal formats or want a second deck or even just want to get a few more staples that would buy EMA type products. Also one of the strengths of MTG is the variety of the formats. If WotC just wants people to only play standard then when stuff like the current environment happens the options are to just abandon the game or deal with it. For a lot of people it's too much money right now to try and play Modern/Eternal formats. ThePeavstenator fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Jan 7, 2017 |
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Jan 7, 2017 20:59
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Mystic Mongol posted:I don't know what I'm looking at. "Hopefully not Force of Will"
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Jan 7, 2017 21:05
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Count Bleck posted:To be fair, it might as well be called Commander Masters. Two of its mythics are banned from Commander but if you say it's to appease disgusting maniacs then I'd buy it.
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Jan 7, 2017 21:09
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ThePeavstenator posted:Legacy/Vintage have the most powerful and iconic cards in magic. Saying no one would like it so why show it is a self-fulfilling prophecy. VSL is a pretty popular thing that gets thousands of viewers despite being casted over skype while watching MTGO. They also did 2 print runs of EMA. Do you honestly think there's no money in formats where you can name-drop stuff like Black Lotus or Force of Will? Don't worry, if standard is poo poo again for another 3 months (looks likely), then maybe change will happen.
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Jan 7, 2017 21:19
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Mystic Mongol posted:I just looked that up. I don't know what I'm looking at. Is it the legendary Chupacabra? It's a silly all-in combo deck that's hilarious when it works. 16 cards that get you from 0 to 1 mana, many more that get you from there up to 4 mana, then you play one of Balustrade Spy or Undercity Informer to put your deck in your yard, sac poo poo to Dread Return for Mimeoplasm, choosing Triskelion+Lord of Extinction to kill your opponent. Sideboard changes the wincon to Glory's Rise -> Azami + Labman.
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Jan 7, 2017 21:52
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ThePeavstenator posted:Legacy/Vintage have the most powerful and iconic cards in magic. Saying no one would like it so why show it is a self-fulfilling prophecy. VSL is a pretty popular thing that gets thousands of viewers despite being casted over skype while watching MTGO. They also did 2 print runs of EMA. Do you honestly think there's no money in formats where you can name-drop stuff like Black Lotus or Force of Will? Yeah I get that. I play and enjoy legacy. My point is from their perspective it is a market that can't be expanded (  ), so they concentrate their attention on their moneymakers.
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Jan 7, 2017 21:56
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Fuzzy Mammal posted:Yeah I get that. I play and enjoy legacy. My point is from their perspective it is a market that can't be expanded ( They could print snow duals and sell them individually for  a pop and they would make more money in a week than they have since standard started being poo poo.
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Jan 7, 2017 21:59
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Are there potential lists up for this CopyCat deck? I was getting out of Standard, but now I can't resist making a deck that attacks with infinite cats.
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Jan 7, 2017 22:05
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https://www.massdrop.com/buy/mtg-planechase-anthology
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Jan 7, 2017 22:22
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BJPaskoff posted:Are there potential lists up for this CopyCat deck? I was getting out of Standard, but now I can't resist making a deck that attacks with infinite cats. I've been working on a few in the modo beta. So far my best is a vehicles based list with reflector mage and the combo kill. Heart of Kiran is the best mythic from the new set it's looks like to me.
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Jan 7, 2017 22:25
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ManMythLegend posted:I feel there's going to be a lot of these slotted into sideboards shortly: nothing these standard all-stars can't handle  +  edit: also imo the lovely thing re: not streaming GP isn't that they're choosing to stream the super sunday series over it, but just that they had to schedule both the same weekend leading to this inevitable choice. there are plenty of weekends with no events being streamed on WoTC's channel. it can't be that hard to have slotted GP Legacy into one of those with the most minimal amount of forethought, but wizards, so MiddleEastBeast fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Jan 7, 2017 |
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Jan 7, 2017 22:30
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The Shortest Path posted:They could print snow duals and sell them individually for That's the part that confuses me more than anything about wizards. They could print a snow duals set (just an example, 10 cards, one of each, just plain cards, no foiling etc) and charge $100 and sell it on their website. Limit it to 4 sets a household / name / DCI number and I bet you they would easily move a thousand playsets in a week. EDH players would buy at least a set for their decks (probably more than one), Legacy players would either shrug their shoulders and do nothing or buy one or two to supplement, people interested in playing Legacy would probably buy 3 or 4. MTG Finance gurus would buy 4x and then pay their casual friends buy 4x as well. They could just keep printing it too. They could make millions of dollars off of this with zero effort. Outside of maybe making their site not bug the gently caress out when you place an order or something. Hasbro would be very excited and it would definitely make their numbers look amazing. If Wizards ever did this though they would make it some sort of FTV style set with lovely foiling and sold through game stores where it would be marked up massively, greedy stores, MTG Finance, and under printing would ruin it. Oh, they would also do like one or two snow duals and then reprint some other crappy lands that no one really wants in the set.
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Jan 7, 2017 22:31
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What's the price? I'm too lazy to make an account tia
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Jan 7, 2017 22:52
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Jan 7, 2017 22:57
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BJPaskoff posted:What's the price? I'm too lazy to make an account tia $86.99
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Jan 7, 2017 23:03
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:And yet they made product for it anyway?! To be fair that sold really poorly, there were far fewer boxes of it sold than *insert product with normal MSRP and a normal print run* so maybe people just didn't want Eternal Masters? You know, other than the fact that my LGS used their entire EMA allocation to draft both times because EMA drafts are fun as hell.
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Jan 7, 2017 23:12
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xanthan posted:$86.99 Welp. This got me to sign up for Massdrop. Having missed my chance to get one for MSRP at my LGS (my original plan) this is great. 
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Jan 7, 2017 23:57
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Hellsau posted:To be fair that sold really poorly, there were far fewer boxes of it sold than *insert product with normal MSRP and a normal print run* so maybe people just didn't want Eternal Masters? You know, other than the fact that my LGS used their entire EMA allocation to draft both times because EMA drafts are fun as hell. I'm sure people who can't/won't buy into legacy or vintage aren't going to play a lotto that gives out staples at negative ev and doesn't have the reserved list (duals) in it.
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Jan 8, 2017 00:29
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Which packs have positive or net even ev? Like it's my impression that whenever that happens card prices just fall until that's no longer the case
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Jan 8, 2017 01:32
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Allstone posted:Which packs have positive or net even ev? Like it's my impression that whenever that happens card prices just fall until that's no longer the case Limited print run stuff "can" be close to even EV or better considering "just opening more packs" isn't an always an option. I don't think that has happened yet even with how good the first modern masters was.
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Jan 8, 2017 01:45
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There's no Reserve List or card shortages on MTGO, and yet no one plays Legacy there either. People don't actually like playing Legacy. In fact I've noticed that most people who complain about Wizards secretly trying to kill Legacy... don't play Legacy.
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Jan 8, 2017 01:49
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mossyfisk posted:There's no Reserve List or card shortages on MTGO, and yet no one plays Legacy there either. People don't actually like playing Legacy. And that certainly has nothing to do with the quality (or lack thereof) of MODO and everything to do with the format, right?
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Jan 8, 2017 01:54
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mossyfisk posted:There's no Reserve List or card shortages on MTGO, and yet no one plays Legacy there either. People don't actually like playing Legacy. I'm sure it has nothing to do with price. Because most people are happy to drop 1k on a deck they can only play online. Or how terrible the client is. Or the fact that a low player base perpetuates a low player base.
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Jan 8, 2017 01:57
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mossyfisk posted:There's no Reserve List or card shortages on MTGO, and yet no one plays Legacy there either. People don't actually like playing Legacy. People don't play Legacy on MTGO because nobody plays Legacy on MTGO. Wasteland is 52 dollars on MTGO, more than it is in paper, because when Wizards had the option of A) Just do more Tempest drafts, where Wasteland is an uncommon, or B) redo Tempest Drafts but make it so all the cards from the block show up in the packs and also make Wasteland a rare, they went with B. Rishadan Port is still 130something tickets. Multiple Legacy playable cards aren't programmed into MTGO for unknown reasons, which combined with the price issues on cards makes the metagame far different from paper, which makes it kind of bad for testing. When you start pushing people away because Legacy on MTGO has an absurdly high buy in, because the MTGO metagame differs from the paper one, and because MTGO has a pretty terrible interface for a bunch of deck archetypes, you end up reducing the population enough that you also lose the people who aren't willing to wait 8 minutes to find a match, which either ends when the format dies completely or when you are only left with the die-hards that are willing to put up with a long wait just to play Legacy.
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Jan 8, 2017 02:00
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mossyfisk posted:There's no Reserve List or card shortages on MTGO, and yet no one plays Legacy there either. People don't actually like playing Legacy. Calling this now: Post of the year 2017.
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Jan 8, 2017 02:00
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Playing against the Saheeli combo deck is supremely unfun. Nothing as exciting as a Splinter Twin combo in a format that now with next to no effective removal or disruption. At least against Twin you have enough safety valves available that you're not completely hamstrung from doing basically anything but keeping up removal.
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Jan 8, 2017 02:04
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Angry Grimace posted:Playing against the Saheeli combo deck is supremely unfun. Nothing as exciting as a Splinter Twin combo in a format that now with next to no effective removal or disruption. At least against Twin you have enough safety valves available that you're not completely hamstrung from doing basically anything but keeping up removal. What's the list? Should I be worried they're going to ban something because a turn 4 win is probably something they don't want in Standard? Or does Emrakul prove they're okay with it?
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Jan 8, 2017 02:09
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Count Bleck posted:Well yeah but when has WotC ever made decisions that didn't piss off at least somebody? Switching to two sets per block? I think that was pretty universally praised.
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Jan 8, 2017 02:12
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Angry Grimace posted:Playing against the Saheeli combo deck is supremely unfun. Nothing as exciting as a Splinter Twin combo in a format that now with next to no effective removal or disruption. At least against Twin you have enough safety valves available that you're not completely hamstrung from doing basically anything but keeping up removal. Maybe they'll learn a valuable lesson about why disruption is important as a safety valve?
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Jan 8, 2017 02:16
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Hellsau posted:People don't play Legacy on MTGO because nobody plays Legacy on MTGO. Wasteland is 52 dollars on MTGO, more than it is in paper, because when Wizards had the option of A) Just do more Tempest drafts, where Wasteland is an uncommon, or B) redo Tempest Drafts but make it so all the cards from the block show up in the packs and also make Wasteland a rare, they went with B. lol forgot about this. It didn't even do much to the supply since people didn't really want to play tempest remastered. Tempest block was such an abysmal draft format that it still sucks after you remove the bottom 50% of the card pool. Plus there were zero other value cards, literally just a wasteland lottery.
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Jan 8, 2017 02:18
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Zemyla posted:Switching to two sets per block? I think that was pretty universally praised. Counterpoint: I liked core sets if for no other reason that giving Wizards an easy way to do reprints. But I got over it pretty quickly when I (naively) believed Wizards would stick to their word about being more aggressive about reprints in "plot sets". Also because getting rid of core sets was the final nail in the coffin of my pet Magic issue, the use of real-world flavor text. It was still alive!
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Jan 8, 2017 02:18
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little munchkin posted:lol forgot about this. It didn't even do much to the supply since people didn't really want to play tempest remastered. Tempest block was such an abysmal draft format that it still sucks after you remove the bottom 50% of the card pool. Plus there were zero other value cards, literally just a wasteland lottery. The lsv Tempest drafts are real good, though.
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Jan 8, 2017 02:19
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Angry Grimace posted:Playing against the Saheeli combo deck is supremely unfun. Nothing as exciting as a Splinter Twin combo in a format that now with next to no effective removal or disruption. At least against Twin you have enough safety valves available that you're not completely hamstrung from doing basically anything but keeping up removal. Out of the 5 friends I know that play magic competitively, all of them including myself had their orders canceled on tcg player. It was funny watching that group test between yesterday and today when all of us that wanted a playset went to hose town. Not a single store honored the order. Last count it was about 14 stores over 6 playsets. One friend of mine brought up the fact that all these sellers had something in common. They were all stores, all with their own website for selling cards, and all of them were listing her at a much higher price. At least all the stores were showing them out of stock at the time we were looking them up. Seems to me that your order is safe unless someone doesn't go into the store or buy from their website AFTER you have payed for your order. Nobody wants to give tcgplayer a cut if another opportunity exists.
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Jan 8, 2017 02:21
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TheKingofSprings posted:Maybe they'll learn a valuable lesson about why disruption is important as a safety valve? Hey there buddy, good discard and counterspells can't exist in standard because they make people feel bad.
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Jan 8, 2017 02:23
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Sickening posted:Out of the 5 friends I know that play magic competitively, all of them including myself had their orders canceled on tcg player. It was funny watching that group test between yesterday and today when all of us that wanted a playset went to hose town. Not a single store honored the order. Last count it was about 14 stores over 6 playsets. Send them an email asking what happened, then if they don't own up to their bullshit, report them to TCGPlayer who will have your back. This is how I got 22 dollars of store credit to put towards a playset of Sword of the Meek so I'd only have to pay the 4 bucks each I was originally promised per card.
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Jan 8, 2017 02:24
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Angry Grimace posted:Playing against the Saheeli combo deck is supremely unfun. Nothing as exciting as a Splinter Twin combo in a format that now with next to no effective removal or disruption. At least against Twin you have enough safety valves available that you're not completely hamstrung from doing basically anything but keeping up removal. The following (mor or less playable) istant removal can stop the combo: Fatal push wth revolt. Grasp of darkness. Murder. Shock (on Saheeli). Lightning Axe. Unlicensed disintegration (both on creature and on Saheeli). Fiery temper (on Saheeli). Stasis snare. To the slaughter with delirium. Emrakul.
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Jan 8, 2017 02:25
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Angry Grimace posted:Playing against the Saheeli combo deck is supremely unfun. Nothing as exciting as a Splinter Twin combo in a format that now with next to no effective removal or disruption. At least against Twin you have enough safety valves available that you're not completely hamstrung from doing basically anything but keeping up removal. I'm assuming the unfun-ness comes from you seeing a lot of turn 4 kills since I can't imagine turn 7 (or later) kills are oppressive, right? How fast is the combo in practice? So much of Twin's absurdity comes from Exarch/Pestermite having Flash that I can't imagine how a strictly sorcery speed version -- even in more restrictive format like Standard -- can be that oppressive. If Copycat goes for the kill on turn 4 I can see how getting a Saheeli off the board after turn 3 on your turn (when you're on the draw) is going to be hard to impossible in many circumstances, but on the play I'd think less so. Also could just mean different colors become good as the meta shifts? Black and Red have a decent number of playable answers to either Saheeli or the cat both at instant speed or in the early game. edit: guy above me basically said what i wanted to much more succinctly. black and red have tons of answers. YggdrasilTM posted:The following (mor or less playable) istant removal can stop the combo: also Transgress the Mind and to a lesser extent (based on overall playability though i don't actually know how much play it already sees) Harsh Scrutiny edit2: just noticed you were listing instant speed answers, though with how lovely card draw/filtering is in standard i think discard counts as an answer to an extent MiddleEastBeast fucked around with this message at 02:32 on Jan 8, 2017 |
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Jan 8, 2017 02:27
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YggdrasilTM posted:The following (mor or less playable) istant removal can stop the combo: Although there are a lot of options, when a deck has to keep mana open and have the cards in question against a deck with blue in it, it usually doesn't put them in a good spot. The combo just gets easier each turn that goes by and it easier to protect.
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Jan 8, 2017 02:34
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Sickening posted:Although there are a lot of options, when a deck has to keep mana open and have the cards in question against a deck with blue in it, it usually doesn't put them in a good spot. The combo just gets easier each turn that goes by and it easier to protect. You don't have to keep mana open before turn 6, because both the cards are at sorcery speed.
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Jan 8, 2017 02:40
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Sickening posted:Although there are a lot of options, when a deck has to keep mana open and have the cards in question against a deck with blue in it, it usually doesn't put them in a good spot. The combo just gets easier each turn that goes by and it easier to protect. You get a full turn to answer the combo until they're about to hit 7 mana. And the longer they wait (while still having less than 7 mana) the harder Saheeli is to protect for a full turn.
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Jan 8, 2017 02:42
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