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Saint Drogo posted:So 40k end times part one is here I guess, nice to see the game that actually needs/deserves the sigmo treatment getting it? What are the details? I refuse to read the 40k thread, but I love GW drama
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Jan 7, 2017 22:30
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Not a viking posted:What are the details? I refuse to read the 40k thread, but I love GW drama It's a mixed bag. The first book is a campaign book for the fall of Cadia. It has some good stuff in it--a new list for combined SoB/Black Templar armies, which helps both and makes enough sense, some mediocre stuff--there's finally a detachment for taking both types of AdMech+Knights, but you have to buy three loving books to do it, and some bad stuff--there's a new deck of cards you can play with that has WACKY WARP STORM EFFECTS every turn that no one will ever bother to play with. Supposedly they're moving away from codexes and more toward just doing a bunch of campaign supplements that update armies along the way. It's not the dumbest idea ever, but it'd be insanely expensive to buy them all, since each release is another $60 book. The rumor is GW isn't going "full sigmar" on 40k, but probably taking some cues for it when 8th edition releases at some point this year.
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Jan 7, 2017 22:55
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Right now the way they are releasing supplements and formation books it's already AoS level on that side of things. If they do it right and put the points online with a frequent review of those points it could be a net positive assuming the ruleset doesn't get kicked it in brain stem with AIDS infected hobnail boots like AoS did.
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Jan 7, 2017 23:03
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30k already works this way and they're not very good at it.
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Jan 7, 2017 23:19
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TTerrible posted:30k already works this way and they're not very good at it. It'd work better if they covered more armies with each supplement, but so far they're only doing two at a time and one of them is always space marines
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Jan 7, 2017 23:25
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TheChirurgeon posted:It'd work better if they covered more armies with each supplement, but so far they're only doing two at a time and one of them is always space marines Possibly. It also would help if they checked how the books interacted and didn't write them in isolation.
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Jan 7, 2017 23:28
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TTerrible posted:Possibly. It also would help if they checked how the books interacted and didn't write them in isolation. This is no place for logic, son.
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Jan 7, 2017 23:29
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TKIY posted:This is no place for logic, son. Phosphex replaces normal shots on Medusas.
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Jan 7, 2017 23:29
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TheChirurgeon posted:It's a mixed bag. The first book is a campaign book for the fall of Cadia. It has some good stuff in it--a new list for combined SoB/Black Templar armies, which helps both and makes enough sense, some mediocre stuff--there's finally a detachment for taking both types of AdMech+Knights, but you have to buy three loving books to do it, and some bad stuff--there's a new deck of cards you can play with that has WACKY WARP STORM EFFECTS every turn that no one will ever bother to play with.
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Jan 7, 2017 23:42
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Saint Drogo posted:welp, doesn't sound like they're doing anything about the rules bloat and enormous codex/rulebooks tax for new and returning players. I guess all they learned from Sigmar is that nerds dislike shouting FOR THE LADY or cramming bloodletters up their assholes for a +1 hit bonus but love points and loving space marines. The tragedy is the reality is the complete opposite. Ask Moola about the blood letters and I love tipping my hat to lady passerby while playing Brets.
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Jan 7, 2017 23:57
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disgusting. daemonette claw sounding is where it's at.
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Jan 8, 2017 00:06
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Glad to see the protagonist faction effect is still in full force in the Age of the Emperor.
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Jan 8, 2017 00:11
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Radish posted:Star Wars board games don't get better than this one. The best one was the Sarlacc Pit game. You had an actual Sarlacc you could play cards and drop Gamorrean Guards into it. I almost bought one for nostalgia purposes this week but the figures are lovely and childhood loves sometimes should stay memories lest they be tainted. Like watching the original Transformers cartoon. (It's terrible. And not always in a way that is at least amusing.) But I am still stalking my dreams of wee Hoth stuff for that game. Everything costs too much for what I want it for. Even old rear end Micro Machines. Or a model kit that was full of Hoth Rebels and Snow Troopers. I will never understand collectors. But I do kind of understand GW now. If I could take advantage of dipshits who will pay 30 bucks for a 1 inch tall unpainted and unassembled model for a bad game and also sell them overpriced tools to build it I probably would too. If I was an actual rear end in a top hat anyhow. (Which I am not though many seem to think I am. Which makes me wonder why I don't just be a dick and have a little fun with it. Oh wait. I can't even play evil in videogame RPGs. I'm that goodie goodie.)
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Jan 8, 2017 00:34
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Age of the Emperor is in fulllllll swing. Posted the Cadia storyline in the 40k thread and there is no going back from this one.
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Jan 8, 2017 00:55
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hahahahahaha
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Jan 8, 2017 01:12
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Moola posted:hahahahahaha Laughing skeletally is always a good sign, right?
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Jan 8, 2017 01:16
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I can't believe they're going through with it after the reception end times and AOS got
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Jan 8, 2017 01:18
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TTerrible posted:I can't believe they're going through with it after the reception end times and AOS got  I've seen people saying AoS makes shitloads more money than fantasy did too. not people I trust any more than the usual dipshits in this arena, but still. anyway a 40k end times/AoS just ain't gonna have the same effect whether it goes well or badly. The rules are already a clusterfuck and the setting is already a big infinite mishmash for you to do whatever the hell you like in.
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Jan 8, 2017 01:25
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TTerrible posted:I can't believe they're going through with it after the reception end times and AOS got people are gonna eat up the poo poo pile that will be age of Empror just like they ate up sigmar
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Jan 8, 2017 01:27
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Beating fantasy means nothing. If it out performs tax squads, drop pods and rhinos I'll sit up.
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Jan 8, 2017 01:29
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GW cannot fail it can only be failed. 40k players will be riding invisible
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Jan 8, 2017 01:30
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Saint Drogo posted:welp, doesn't sound like they're doing anything about the rules bloat and enormous codex/rulebooks tax for new and returning players. I guess all they learned from Sigmar is that nerds dislike shouting FOR THE LADY or cramming bloodletters up their assholes for a +1 hit bonus but love points and loving space marines. Yeah they definitely aren't scaling back the number of books, but nothing in the new supplement is essential. The rules basically cover 3 new characters and 2 new ways to play existing armies. I have no idea if any of the rules are any good. But then, there's the rub--if they're good enough that you need them, they're forcing you to buy yet another $60 book. If they aren't, then they are wasting everyone's time with lovely rules. This wouldn't be so bad if the core rules and codexes were free or at least much less expensive; then I could get behind repeated purchases of campaign books, which tend to age much better than the codexes/rulebooks. TTerrible posted:I can't believe they're going through with it after the reception end times and AOS got The general feeling/rumor scuttlebutt is that they aren't willing to go whole hog with 40k like they did fantasy, because it's a much bigger part of their business and they're terrified of losing players. But even if things have gotten better of the last year or so, the game itself is still bad enough that I'm not sure there *is* a change that would cause the remaining gamers to stop playing.
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Jan 8, 2017 01:30
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TheChirurgeon posted:Yeah they definitely aren't scaling back the number of books, but nothing in the new supplement is essential. The rules basically cover 3 new characters and 2 new ways to play existing armies. I have no idea if any of the rules are any good. But then, there's the rub--if they're good enough that you need them, they're forcing you to buy yet another $60 book. If they aren't, then they are wasting everyone's time with lovely rules. This wouldn't be so bad if the core rules and codexes were free or at least much less expensive; then I could get behind repeated purchases of campaign books, which tend to age much better than the codexes/rulebooks.
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Jan 8, 2017 01:50
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Yeah they didn't even let the end times go for a while before crapping out AoS.
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Jan 8, 2017 01:55
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TKIY posted:Yeah they didn't even let the end times go for a while before crapping out AoS. I'm pretty sure AoS came out 4 months after End Times finished.
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Jan 8, 2017 01:57
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It was 4 extremely long months of zero communication following a p loving unequivocal byebye to the setting, where nobody knew whether fantasy would still exist, which armies if any would survive and in what form...so in a way you're both right. 
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Jan 8, 2017 02:04
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I like how people are saying 40k needs to shake up the setting to stay fresh. When I see a 40k table these days I don't even recognize it. There are so many units that didn't exist when I played (and also look stupid) and the sheer scope of the game is entirely different. I don't really see how blowing up Cadia fixes some or any of the fundamental problems the game has, but as far as I can tell 'hams fans are really good at self-delusion.
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Jan 8, 2017 02:09
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No they genuinely think more focus on the 'canon' plotlines is good for setting and story (and so the game i guess?) and are really invested in guys with names like Perturabo. v  , all the way.
Saint Drogo fucked around with this message at 02:28 on Jan 8, 2017 |
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Jan 8, 2017 02:14
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*shrug* The setting was always a backdrop to use as an excuse to make space dollies fight. Back when I played half the fun was in theory-crafting with your friends from the scant details and hints scattered throughout the codexes and rules. Every time a canon plot has been expanded, it's invariably been dumb and made the setting worse.
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Jan 8, 2017 02:24
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The argument for 40k being great because people could make their armies' backgrounds fit anywhere in the setting would be more palatable if every annoying Waagh-shouting player didn't actively make the universe smaller. I always made my army's background focus on them being a normal division that sits in a base and maybe gets deployed from time to time. It was terminal lance. The OC-do-not-steal backgrounds that talked about people's armies being in the forefront of the fiction were aggressively terrible. GW of course cultivated this by their annual armies on parade event which I assume still continues. Guess that's why I also hated the Star Wars EU and the authors' incessant need to have their characters interacting with the movie characters.
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Jan 8, 2017 02:45
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Atlas Hugged posted:half the fun was in theory-crafting with your friends from the scant details and hints scattered throughout the codexes and rules. Every time a canon plot has been expanded, it's invariably been dumb and made the setting worse. Yeah, this. Nerds and writers (especially nerd writers) have this almost pathological urge to fill in every nook and cranny with detail, explaining everything they can so that their nerd-readers and nerd-fans and nerd-friends can spend a significant chunk of their life pouring over and memorizing everything. Anything that has a sense of mystery to it is anathema and must be stamped out because they have to know everything about the setting and lore, even if its irredeemably terrible. D&D does this in several of its settings. Up until recently, Star Wars did this too. Star Trek probably does this but I know gently caress-all about their EU and with the weird limbo that series has been in who the gently caress knows anymore. Having a few key locations and the rest scribbled down as "here be dragons" is going to do more to excite the imagination than dozens of books dealing with source material, particularly in a miniatures game that tries to sell itself as "you can make your own army!"
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Jan 8, 2017 02:54
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Slimnoid posted:Yeah, this. Nerds and writers (especially nerd writers) have this almost pathological urge to fill in every nook and cranny with detail, explaining everything they can so that their nerd-readers and nerd-fans and nerd-friends can spend a significant chunk of their life pouring over and memorizing everything. Anything that has a sense of mystery to it is anathema and must be stamped out because they have to know everything about the setting and lore, even if its irredeemably terrible. this is one of the many problems Rouge Wan has
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Jan 8, 2017 03:01
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Chill la Chill posted:The argument for 40k being great because people could make their armies' backgrounds fit anywhere in the setting would be more palatable if every annoying Waagh-shouting player didn't actively make the universe smaller. I always made my army's background focus on them being a normal division that sits in a base and maybe gets deployed from time to time. It was terminal lance. The OC-do-not-steal backgrounds that talked about people's armies being in the forefront of the fiction were aggressively terrible. GW of course cultivated this by their annual armies on parade event which I assume still continues. Guess that's why I also hated the Star Wars EU and the authors' incessant need to have their characters interacting with the movie characters. One of the cool things about 40k was that the universe was so vast and lives were so meaningless that your OC-army could have a whole list of amazing accomplishments and heroic or villainous actions it was involved in that never once touched the established canon. "While everyone else was stomping on the 12th Black Crusade, my chapter of totally not Blood Angels was fighting to save an Imperial outpost on a Necron Tomb World. They weren't able to recover any Necron tech, of course, but it became a central part of their motif after a century of warfare." *glues Thousand Sons heads to Death Company* Having your army be the one that saved Armageddon is missing the point entirely I think.
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Jan 8, 2017 03:03
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As far as I know there weren't just two expunged first founding legions in 40k, but easily a thousand. And perhaps 100 times that many successor chapters. And while important bits of 40k history were written like legends, they really skimped out on the Betrayal aboard that one ship where the now-chaos marine stabbed the emperor. I've heard at least 30 people talk about how their marines were actually on that ship, and that's just a small sample, so that ship was inconceivably larger than Noah's Ark!
Chill la Chill fucked around with this message at 03:07 on Jan 8, 2017 |
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Jan 8, 2017 03:04
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I'm actually glad X wing just had you use named pilots because if it was all generics with abilities, you can be damned sure that Luke Skywalker flew with at least 5000 pilot buddies in his short piloting stint as Rogue Leader.
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Jan 8, 2017 03:10
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Chill la Chill posted:I'm actually glad X wing just had you use named pilots because if it was all generics with abilities, you can be damned sure that Luke Skywalker flew with at least 5000 pilot buddies in his short piloting stint as Rogue Leader. what if I only fly with generic un-named pilots though? 
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Jan 8, 2017 03:51
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Moola posted:what if I only fly with generic un-named pilots though? Some sort of skeleton crew?
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Jan 8, 2017 04:08
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If the movies are anything to go by the average pilot lasts about 15 seconds in a battle.
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Jan 8, 2017 05:12
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Atlas Hugged posted:If the movies are anything to go by the average pilot lasts about 15 seconds in a battle. How realistic!
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Jan 8, 2017 05:36
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The average British pilot in WW1 lasted about one battle. "Realistic" depends on context and details and the star wars films have generally portrayed only desperate space battles in which an insurgency decides it has to expose itself to the full brunt of a superpower, with the casualties that come with it, because of what was at stake at that particular moment. That said, space battles in a space movie don't have to be (and probably shouldn't be) "realistic," they need to be dramatic and exciting and not break immersion. Probably a "realistic" space battle would take place between combatants entirely out of visual range of one another and mostly involve a lot of trigonometry. Also hi thread, I finally got to see the new star wars movie, so I'm able to come back into the star wars spoiler thread. I liked it. I thought it was a pretty good movie. I suspect there's another half hour or so of movie that got left on the cutting floor, so hopefully there will be a director's cut at some point. I see GW is still bad, that's interesting. Chill la Chill posted:As far as I know there weren't just two expunged first founding legions in 40k, but easily a thousand. And perhaps 100 times that many successor chapters. And while important bits of 40k history were written like legends, they really skimped out on the Betrayal aboard that one ship where the now-chaos marine stabbed the emperor. I've heard at least 30 people talk about how their marines were actually on that ship, and that's just a small sample, so that ship was inconceivably larger than Noah's Ark! My memory was that there were supposed to be (exactly?) 1000 chapters of Space Marines in the Imperium. GW has never even named more than maybe 200 of them, so that leaves enough that no gamer who ever made up their own chapter could ever be straight-up contradicted by the canon. Unfortunately, GW went down a modeling path of gradually eliminating generic space marine models - used to be you mostly could only buy chapter-agnostic little dudes, plus a smattering of special characters etc. from various factions. But then in the 1990s, more and more chapter-specific models started to proliferate, encouraging players to play one of the canonical chapters instead of making up their own. These days I have no idea if it's even possible to buy official GW models of a complete fieldable space marine army containing no chapter-specific models? I could never afford to get into 40k when I was a teenager so I didn't even try, but I still made up chapter names and doodles my own little chapter insignia in my lined notebooks during class instead of paying attention. Nerds love to theorize about their favorite settings, but if the only space you leave them is your already ridiculously over-described major plots and specific planets, then all they can do is insert their terrible fanfic ideas into those stories.
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