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Concordat posted:The description makes the quiet sentries seem like a straight upgrade, but what do I know. Quiet sentries are a straight upgrade if you plan to also kill cops in the area, but if you leave them alone they'll still draw aggro and perform the intimidation effects of ordinary sentries.
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Jan 7, 2017 11:52
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Lyrai posted:http://pd2skills.com/#/v3/mIJKlMNoR:eLR:tABCDEFOPr:ibcdea::w34-16-7-30-34-10:s94:a3 China Puff is not a great option if you're going to max out sentries, because it has a tiny ammo pool. Since you don't have Fully Loaded at all, you may run into problems replacing your sentries when you run out of ammo. If you want to stick with a grenade launcher secondary, at least climb the ammo tree and get a maxed ammo bag you can bring along for refills and for the benefit of the team. Surefire and Heavy Impact are also unnecessary. You've maxed out sentry guns so they should be doing most of the damage, and your secondary is a grenade launcher, which is totally unaffected by those two skills. Just make the M308 as accurate and stable as you can and go for headshots. That's 15 points much better spent elsewhere - namely, in the ammo tree. Sharpshooter tree for this build is also of limited use because, again, grenade launcher. GL doesn't benefit from Ammo Efficiency, nor is the bonus damage provided by High Value target needed. If you're going to get converts, better to grab the health regen with Aced Hostage Taker instead. Also get movement perks from the Ghost trees and bag skills to help out the team.
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Jan 7, 2017 12:55
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Discendo Vox posted:Quiet sentries are a straight upgrade if you plan to also kill cops in the area How so? TBH, I've never actually figured out what the point of silenced sentries is supposed to be.
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Jan 7, 2017 13:11
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In theory, they shouldn't attract as much attention from enemies, and therefore should last longer. In practice, and in line with much of the game, there is very little difference. Would be amazing if you could deploy in stealth and have them mow down everybody to control the map for you.
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Jan 7, 2017 13:41
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A build without movement speed skills is a build you hosed up. Also grenade launchers have really good pickup and using a turret is percentage based on your ammo total so I don't see any issue with combining the two.
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Jan 7, 2017 14:12
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Well, it certainly is viable, but you're more likely to be caught short and not be able to replace dry sentry guns. Especially in heists that require camping for extended periods. I would at least grab Fully Loaded basic to use GL with sentries.
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Jan 7, 2017 14:42
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Wastrel_ posted:In theory, they shouldn't attract as much attention from enemies, and therefore should last longer. I would like I have sentries that handle civies.
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Jan 7, 2017 23:30
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http://pd2skills.com/#/v3/mGIJKlr:ehJKLNR:tABCDEFR:gjl:ibcdea::: Took the advice and reconfigured to this. It's not displaying weapons right so I dropped it, but it's an M308 and China Puff, with mods to give 100acc and 100 Stability, Maniac, and Combined Tactical Vest Melee is Brass Knuckles, Throwable is Concussion Grenade, because that's what was on there last. Mask is Mega Kawaii, because this build is all about love and friendship.
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Jan 8, 2017 00:34
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Last night I got introduced to the concept of C4 stealth where in we all had 14 C4 builds to chain a line of explosives that would kill guards and destroy cameras by placing them in the vacinity of where they could be hit by the radius of the blast even through the roof or next to walls. We used nearly all of them in Go Bank and it worked?
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Jan 8, 2017 04:03
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FAUXTON posted:I would like I have sentries that handle civies. They can perhaps help keep civilians intimidated, like the fake sentry guns in No Mercy in PD: TH. Lyrai posted:http://pd2skills.com/#/v3/mGIJKlr:ehJKLNR:tABCDEFR:gjl:ibcdea::: If you're using the CTV you can remove Aced Die Hard. it works only on ballistic vests, which the CTV isn't. I would put the 4 points in Fully Loaded for more ammo. For a hostage taker build, melee that can stun enemies is best such that they can be easily intimidated, so maybe the Electric Knuckles or Buzzer (if you have the Golden Grin DLC) instead.
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Jan 8, 2017 07:46
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Crabtree posted:Last night I got introduced to the concept of C4 stealth where in we all had 14 C4 builds to chain a line of explosives that would kill guards and destroy cameras by placing them in the vacinity of where they could be hit by the radius of the blast even through the roof or next to walls. We used nearly all of them in Go Bank and it worked?
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Jan 8, 2017 18:44
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Please tell me more, this sounds hilarious and awesome. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8G-zpfCwIO0 seems like it's what they're talking about
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Jan 8, 2017 19:00
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Wastrel_ posted:They can perhaps help keep civilians intimidated, like the fake sentry guns in No Mercy in PD: TH. Yeah they can scare them right to death.
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Jan 8, 2017 23:17
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10 Chambers new game advertises itself with Viklund music rather than images.
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Jan 9, 2017 01:29
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I mean, if you had him on your team, wouldn't you?
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Jan 9, 2017 01:41
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Wastrel_ posted:They can perhaps help keep civilians intimidated, like the fake sentry guns in No Mercy in PD: TH. Not enough points to go into Fully Loaded. In game, at least. I picked up some QoL skills instead. First runs: Kind of neat! A bit of a hassle to get set up, but when I can grab two converts, it becomes much easier. Collect ammo, refill sentry guns, and do a big sweep in cool down phases. Also I found Better Bots, which I noticed let the AI Clowns dominate & intimidate cops, so I installed it and holy poo poo, something's weird in the code because the AI just would not stop dominating cops. It cheesed the whole thing when downstairs mallcrasher was just this massive glob of cuffed cops.
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Jan 9, 2017 06:47
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Secret Update: Still not in the game, I think. I pretty strongly suspect, based on a number of things, that Overkill may have been building the secret into the game extensively for years now. We have several maps with a bunch of secret-related imagery, and they all have suspicious underground voids in the map:
Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Jan 9, 2017 |
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Jan 9, 2017 11:50
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Discendo Vox posted:Secret Update: Still not in the game, I think. I pretty strongly suspect, based on a number of things, that Overkill may have been building the secret into the game extensively for years now. We have several maps with a bunch of secret-related imagery, and they all have suspicious underground voids in the map:
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Jan 10, 2017 03:01
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Lyrai posted:Also I found Better Bots, which I noticed let the AI Clowns dominate & intimidate cops, so I installed it and holy poo poo, something's weird in the code because the AI just would not stop dominating cops. It cheesed the whole thing when downstairs mallcrasher was just this massive glob of cuffed cops. It's kind of a weird interaction that results from the lovely damage that the AI does and how stupid Overkill made the surrender code. Since now cop AI is 'If health<100%, surrender immediately', the AI's poor damage means they'll nick a random cop who will throw their hands up the moment anyone yells even vaguely in their direction. Weirdly it actually makes the AI really strong, since they can (inconsistently) remove regular cops in one hit. I'll regularly have 3-4 hostage cops at any time without even trying. Great if you're running jokers or a deck that gets bonuses for hitting/killing cops.
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Jan 10, 2017 04:38
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That's amazing and hilarious. Wonder if the mod maker will ever patch it.
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Jan 10, 2017 09:31
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Wastrel_ posted:That's amazing and hilarious. Wonder if the mod maker will ever patch it. I hope not, I rather like the idea of shouting down waves of cops like "THROW DOWN THE WEAPON AMD CUFF YOURSELF AND YOU'LL GET TO SEE THE WIFE AND KIDS AGAIN" before just shooting them in the head anyway.
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Jan 10, 2017 11:50
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Overkill's soliciting trophy ideas on the main forums here. I've made some suggestions, and I've copied them below. Thanks to metal/stormseeker for giving me a couple of these! Please also submit your own so that the idiotic ideas of pubs don't make their way into the game. A couple general ideas, warranting some broader description. Weapon Expert trophies Right now Robbedacop seems insurmountable- one way to make it more interesting for people is to give them sub-goals along the way. The large number of weapons gives an opportunity for both more customization that expresses player preferences, and a way to give them a sense of progress toward that mountain of kills. This can work both for firearms, as well as for thrown weapons, melee, and even deployables. Trophy Name: [weapon name] Expert Trophy Item: Some number (perhaps 4 or 8) of display cases replace some of the weapon racks in John Wick's area or Chains' workshop. The basic, unmodded or skinned version of the weapon appears on a pillow in each case. Once all cases are filled, earning or selecting a new weapon trophy will replace the last weapon on display. Melee weapons could appear on the rack in Jacket's room. Trophy Description: You've killed a lot of cops with the [weapon name]. A lot of them. Trophy Challenge: Kill X number of law enforcers with the weapon. In practice, some weapons are better than others, but having a flat amount will be much simpler. Consider having a lower number for melee weapons. Right now, if every single weapon in the game had 2000 kills on it, players would only be 2/3rds of the way to Robbedacop, so there's a lot of flexibility here. Item stacks The crew has at this point stolen a large amount of a lot of things-loot, as well as miscellaneous tools for clearing heists that were never used. Having them in a pile in the currently closed parts of the vault, in a new, separate vault area, (or elsewhere in the safehouse, for non-loot items) makes a lot of sense. In addition, having the amount of the object scale upward (like money in the vault does) as more are retrieved would be a really nice feature for such objects. It would make sense to unlock the display area/areas for some of these as a safehouse upgrade. If a limited area is available for space reasons, this could also let players select which of these they want to work on, or display. This would also give a separate location for a variety of other trophies to appear, which would be nice; the main safehouse is going to get cluttered fast. Loot: Trophy Name: Midas Touch Trophy Item: Gold bars. Could appear in one of the closed vault areas. If the item can "scale" with the amount taken, consider having a throne made out of stacking the gold bars as what appears when the amount is at its top. Trophy Description: Crime is about more than cash- your word is as good as gold. Steal at least X bags of gold. [I recommend at least ~200] Trophy Name: Ski Resort Trophy Item: Packages of Coke. Could appear in one of the closed vault areas. If the item can "scale" with the amount taken, consider just filling 3/4 of the room with a hill of unbagged coke, and a snowman model, when the amount is at its top. Trophy Description: At some point, product became your plaything. Steal at least X bags of coke. [I recommend at least ~200] Trophy Name: Bling King Trophy Item: A full jewelry display, using assets from Jewelry Store. Could expand to include cosmetic elements of the Jewelry Store, including signage or wallpaper. At the top level, the tiara trophy could be transposed into a place of honor in this display. Trophy Description: You've stolen so much jewelry you could franchise your own chain of stores. Steal at least X bags of jewelry. [I recommend at least ~400] Trophy Name: Gun Nut Trophy Item: Weapon racks, like in Wick's area, as well as other weapon cases, filled with the low-quality stuff we've stolen in heists. At the top level, guns could simply be stacked and thrown around in piles, and include shells from Train Heist. Trophy Description: You'd never use these- they're just to make you feel powerful. Steal at least X bags of weapons. [I recommend at least ~150, including battle rifles, assault rifles and pistols] Trophy Name: All in Good Taste Trophy Item: A mini art gallery, using plain display wall assets like in The Diamond or Art Gallery. Art (paintings from Nightclub, Framing Frame, Big Bank, The Diamond, Big Oil day 2, even the weird stuff on the walls in the apartments in Rats day 2) can be selected by the player, with more options available as the value "scales". Sculptures from any of the many heists that had them could be a reward for hitting the top of that scale. Trophy Description: You don't know if it's art, but you know what you like. Steal at least X paintings. [I recommend at least ~150, including painting loot from The Diamond] Other items: Trophy Name: Master Carpenter Trophy Item: A stack of boards, including the plywood from GO Bank. Could appear in the driveway as an additional cover source for raids, capable of being used to board windows, or be destroyed by enemy fire. Could include an actual clumsily made fence using board assets at upper tiers if it "scales". Trophy Description: Who cares about building a defense when you can build de fence? Carry at least X boards out of heists. [This value could be pretty low, perhaps ~20]. Trophy Name: Master of Unlocking Trophy Item: A stack of Gensec keycards in a trash can. At high levels of scaling the trashcan overflows. Appears in Clover's room. Trophy Description: Whether quiet or loud, you've never been one to take the simple path. Carry at least X keycards out of heists. [I recommend at least ~45]. Other trophy ideas Trophy Name: Algie Jr Trophy Item: Tiny version of the pig from Big Bank. Appears in Wolf's area. Trophy Description: Wolf said it was too cute to smash, so we sent it to a nice money farm upstate. Complete the Big Bank heist with 20 bags secured on Mayhem or above using the Thermite asset. [Note that this also means players will have a default escape] Trophy Name: Nuke Trophy Item: One of the Meltdown Nukes, preferably stood up on its end. Could go in Wolf's area, or in the weapon display area. Could still emit the geiger counter ticking sound from Meltdown. Trophy Description: Vlad said it was surplus. Wolf says he's disarmed it, but maybe stand back. Complete the Meltdown Heist without any member of the crew using any vehicles. Trophy Name: Let it Snow Trophy Item: When on display, the snow effect from the various Xmas heists occurs outdoors at the safehouse. Actually redoing the visible green areas of the map isn't really needed. Trophy Description: You saved Christmas- and you did it all season long! Complete the White Xmas heist on Overkill or above, having secured X bags. [I recommend 53, the amount from the old contest] Trophy Name: Raid-away Trophy Item: A computer displaying a police logo in Clover's security room. Trophy Description: It took some doing, but we've finally put a stop to that tipster calling the police on us. While on display, the user's safehouse will stop being raided. Complete 25 safehouse raids. Trophy Name: Dental Plan Trophy Item: A dental X-Ray tacked onto Hoxton's planning board. Trophy Description: Don't tell the Dentist, but sometimes you prefer to wing it. Clear all of the Dentist's heists with preplanning on Deathwish or above without using any assets. Trophy Name: Zero Cool Trophy Item: Part of the hacking setup from Counterfeit (particularly the monitor displaying binary), on one of the tables in Wolf's workshop. Display could be toggled with the computer from Election Day. Trophy Description: They messed with the best, they died like the rest. Complete Undercover on Death Wish or above without letting the police stop the hack or launch a gas attack. Trophy Name: Woah Trophy Item: Unlocks suited security guard images for use in the firing range. Trophy Description: At this speed, you don't have to dodge bullets. Complete the killroom with a time less than X seconds. [I'm not sure of an appropriate time, but please don't make it too insane.] Trophy Name: Fine Print Trophy Item: The printing plates from Counterfeit, leaning in a corner somewhere. Alternately, the "bad print" sign from Counterfeit. Trophy Description: You don't like to be interrupted when you're making money. Print and secure at least X batches of counterfeit money on Mayhem or above without letting the police disrupt the water, printer or power. [I recommend ~6.]
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Jan 11, 2017 22:33
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The only thing I would hate about all of the 'secure x bags' trophies is that the counter will start from zero. Unless they actually have some sense for once and make it not do that.
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Jan 12, 2017 15:53
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I mean, that hinges on them already tracking that.
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Jan 14, 2017 18:56
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Wastrel_ posted:The only thing I would hate about all of the 'secure x bags' trophies is that the counter will start from zero. Unless they actually have some sense for once and make it not do that. With numbers that low, it wouldn't take long to achieve any of those regardless. The keycard one would probably take the longest, especially if it only counts the ones you carry out, simply because not that many heists have multiple keycards and can be done quickly. Plus a lot of these can be stacked. Diamond will get you paintings and keycards, Firestarter will be guns, plus potentially gold and coke as well, etc. The one I dislike the most on that list is Nuke. Ouch.
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Jan 14, 2017 19:13
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Can the Nuke trophy be retroactive? I already did that poo poo over a year ago.
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Jan 14, 2017 19:52
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Note that Nuke doesn't have a difficulty specified. And yeah, the X# trophies have suggestions on them that assume that players would have to start from scratch. All of the item ones only count stuff the player carries out of the heist. A problem with the keycard one is that, well, keycards are useful! I'm surprised folks weren't unhappy with Dental Plan or Zero Cool.
Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Jan 14, 2017 |
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Jan 14, 2017 20:03
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You should make it Deathwish only and then retroactive and somehow make the game accept this video proof from 2 years ago. Dental Plan sounds fine, you would just be playing those heists with sub optimal preplanning. Unless you mean without buying anything at all, which would still be very much doable; just requires more coordination. Zero Cool sounds dumb though; how do you even stop a gas attack?
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Jan 14, 2017 22:01
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UnknownMercenary posted:Dental Plan sounds fine, you would just be playing those heists with sub optimal preplanning. Unless you mean without buying anything at all, which would still be very much doable; just requires more coordination. Zero Cool sounds dumb though; how do you even stop a gas attack? Dental Plan means no buying anything at all. Zero Cool's not too bad; stopping a gas attack works the same as on any of the H&T banks. A chopper arrives on the roof and drops off two enemies. They try to path over to an AC unit and attach a tank- just kill them first and you're good. In practice whomever is defending the roof powerbox will do it. UnknownMercenary posted:You should make it Deathwish only and then retroactive and somehow make the game accept this video proof from 2 years ago. I wouldn't make it DW only, nor require all loot, precisely because after you clear the yard/route it's pretty boring. Also, that video is painful to watch. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Jan 14, 2017 |
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Jan 14, 2017 22:23
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As far as console goes the big job is still mountain. Fun one is still frames (no gold) However Car shop is kinda cool
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Jan 17, 2017 06:38
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swims posted:However does not compute I got the OD achievement for Car Shop and kicked from the game at the same time. Thanks to desync I got in escape zone with 2 seconds to spare but host kicked me right after heist finished because he thought I wouldn't make it. gently caress Car Shop and its 12 guards in a small rear end building.
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Jan 17, 2017 08:40
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gently caress Car Shop. The sheer density of guards and civilians is one thing; insisting that people should park nicely in a container, then leap out and run another short distance to the van in order to complete the heist is an even greater dick move. Seriously, just make the escape area the whole docks and let people finish once they drive the car in, don't gently caress them over after they've completed the main objectives of the heist. Actually, gently caress stealth in general. And especially gently caress forced stealth heists that make zero sense within the context of the game. We can shoot down hundreds of Murkywater and policemen in Meltdown and Hoxton Revenge, but somehow we need to sneak Shadow Raid and Murky Station or we'll be 'screwed'? Completely nonsensical.
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Jan 17, 2017 13:04
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Wastrel_ posted:Actually, gently caress stealth in general. And especially gently caress forced stealth heists that make zero sense within the context of the game. We can shoot down hundreds of Murkywater and policemen in Meltdown and Hoxton Revenge, but somehow we need to sneak Shadow Raid and Murky Station or we'll be 'screwed'? Completely nonsensical. It will probably be a Payday 3 thing, but it would be cool if there were no "forced" stealth heists and then on top of that, going loud if you were stealthing would not be a death sentence because your build has no combat skills.
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Jan 17, 2017 14:54
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The developers wanted hybrid builds for a time, but they've since realised that's a blind alley. The armour bag (why the gently caress is it even still in the game) is a holdover from that time. To be fair, 'control' stealth can still be easily done using dodge builds, but the larger stealth heists definitely can't. The developers have also totally abandoned the concept with things like allowing profile switching and easy restarting of heists (in PD: TH and earlier versions of PD2 there was no restart button and the only way to restart was mass player suicide). As it is, stealth is still far too RNG dependent as compared to loud and therefore is much more annoying to do. Somehow there are still hardcore stealth aficionados within the community that insist on their stupid forced stealth heists, however. I'm not sure where the thrill lies in being hosed over by RNG, which is how a very significant proportion of stealth runs fail. The escape timer is totally arbitrary and therefore incredibly stupid. I'm glad there isn't one on every heist unlike PD: TH though! In other news, Safehouse Raid with 12 sentries. Did nothing except shoot the occasional dozer that was picking on my sentries, and of course replacing them when they ran out. 
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Jan 17, 2017 15:46
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There's not any RNG failure in any of the stealth heists anymore. RNG can make a stealth heist much harder, at most. The only exception is Big Oil day 2, which isn't meant to be stealthed all the way. There's an explanation provided for the escape timers in the stealth only maps.
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Jan 17, 2017 15:54
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Discendo Vox posted:There's not any RNG failure in any of the stealth heists anymore. RNG can make a stealth heist much harder, at most. The only exception is Big Oil day 2, which isn't meant to be stealthed all the way. Discendo Vox posted:There's an explanation provided for the escape timers in the stealth only maps.
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Jan 17, 2017 16:03
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:There are some really bad circumstances that can happen because of RNG which essentially means a failstate is guaranteed and a restart is better than continuing with that axe hanging over your head. This is dumb. An example is two stationary guards being watched by three cameras in the room with the sewer opening on first floor of the warehouse in Shadow Raid. a) that's a bug, it's going to be fixed. b) it's astronomically unlikely unless you spend a very long time before opening the door onto the balcony. c) That just means you don't use the sewer opening. It closes off like 4 sources of loot tops. AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Just because there is an explanation does not mean it makes sense or is good gameplay. Murky Station should have more time for an escape unless there are dozens or armed guards hiding in traincars or at the exits I have more than 10 loving seconds to escape the area, even if it means swimming. I should be able to pay to have both escape options available from the get-go, too. Money has become a non-issue in the game, let me spend stupid amounts of it (or a % of the payout) for having extra escape methods or something for QoL. It would make more sense for the escape timer to be zero seconds on that heist. The whole point is that no one is supposed to know you were there. It's a stealth only heist. If an alarm goes off, you hosed up.
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Jan 17, 2017 16:23
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Just because there is an explanation does not mean it makes sense or is good gameplay. That's very true. Unfortunately, quote:Money has become a non-issue in the game, let me spend stupid amounts of it (or a % of the payout) for having extra escape methods or something for QoL. this also doesn't make sense and isn't good gameplay. Using something meaningless to remove challenge means there is ...no challenge. That's bad heist design. Just deal with the fact that payday 2 stealth is a type of gameplay challenge you're bad at and don't worry about trying to fix it. your ideas are essentially "remove it" which is both boring and pointless. and I spend 95% of my time in stealth heists letting someone else do all the work, so it's not like I've got a personal stake in wanting more stealth heists. You're frustrated, but your ideas would result in the exact lovely gameplay you're attempting to criticize. there are like 20000 heists now. play a different one.  e: I mean there's room to discuss the parts of pd2 stealth which are bad but based on your last several posts I don't think you're really interested in that conversation, so Psion fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Jan 17, 2017 |
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Jan 17, 2017 18:11
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The pinnacle of Payday 2 stealth has been Shadow Raid pre-preplanning and Election Day. Both of those maps will give all four players something to do, the winning strategy isn't overly complex and it's easily saved if you gently caress up. They ruined Shadow Raid with preplanning so now it's really easy to just ECM rush it and it remains to this day one of the best time:XP ratios even after all the nerfs. Election Day is just a really really great design they came up with when they started moving away from "shoot all the guards, lock down the map". The Trustee Bank heists are mind numbingly boring. The rest of the maps are best done with 2, so if you have a full group 2 people just end up dicking around doing nothing. Golden Grin is almost an exception to this since you can have people stay in civilian mode to spot guards and cameras. This is on top of pretty much every complaint people have about Payday 2 stealth, many of which I feel are legitimate. Hopefully for 3 there's not such a hard distinction between stealth and loud; Payday 2 feels weird in that it's extremely hard to contain any stealth situation that goes bad.
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Jan 17, 2017 19:17
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that's a good point, though, merc, about preplanning torching any real difficulty in Shadow Raid. It's still probably the best designed stealth heist in the game but it's super easy-mode when you can guarantee which loot drops you get even if you aren't ECM-rushing your way through Infamy 2.0. I think the existence of skill builds, and specifically stealth-only skills in said builds, make it almost impossible to change the fundamentals for PD2. PDTH's lack of skill builds meant that switching from stealth to loud on Diamond Heist was completely no big deal, but PDTH "stealth" was a three-minute delay in going loud on exactly one heist. I also think the four pager limit is the biggest obstacle to 'saving' a bungled stealth situation. I'm not saying it's all bad, but it really does make stealth ... kind of...brittle? It either works or it doesn't. The opportunity cost to dropping a guard on an all-pagers map is pretty high if you have to drop them and then answer the pager and then bag and move them, which is fine, but it means any situations which are even slightly out of control are going to spiral into totally out of control before you can even finish the pager call and then you're loud and you can do literally nothing but watch while holding F. the Scarface heist's attempt around this problem - outdoor guards don't have pagers - is actually kind of interesting. You have to manage cameras but you can silently take down the entire exterior with a little patience. Psion fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Jan 17, 2017 |
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Jan 17, 2017 19:28
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