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Thank you for responding. Yeah I meant loyalty to the books.
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Jan 6, 2017 20:09
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Free yourself from the cycle of expectation and disappointment, and attain Nerdvana.
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Jan 6, 2017 20:11
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although speaking of loyalty to the books, the only thing that dragged my miserable rear end out to see all thirty six hours of the third god damned hobbit film was that i wanted to see the white council v. necromancer scene, and there was only like one wizard involved and it's over in two minutes and it wasn't even that cool
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Jan 6, 2017 20:13
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lotr movies were decent fantasy films, even if they didn't follow the books' themes but hobbit movies should have been cut so that there would be only one film
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Jan 6, 2017 20:28
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also they should have been direct by guillermo del toro
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Jan 6, 2017 20:29
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chernobyl kinsman posted:yes friend thank you for pointing out the basic economic motivations for making bad films, like the lord of the rings You specifically started snarking on the films need for wide spread appeal because it doesn't fit your internal vision of perfection. If you can't get past that maybe you need to go be by yourself for a while. The point is that the movie you want not only will never be made but can never be made.
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Jan 6, 2017 21:04
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Hogge Wild posted:but hobbit movies should have been cut so that there would be only one film I could maybe, maybe, maybe have seen two films if you weren't cutting as aggressively as, say, Rankin-Bass did. Three was ludicrous.
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Jan 6, 2017 22:36
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It was written as two. You can see in the middle of the second movie of three where the original two scripts were stitched together. Their rowing into Laketown is where the second of two would have started.
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Jan 6, 2017 22:43
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chernobyl kinsman posted:i also think all popular entertainment should appeal to the lowest common denominator original statement: "not everything needs to be highbrow" goon interpretation: "everything needs to appeal to the lowest common denominator" with this kind of reading comprehension i don't know how you managed to get anything out of tolkien tbqh
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Jan 6, 2017 23:11
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How do you interpret a reading as simple and straight-forward as "these books are melancholic and conservative while these movies are hollow in comparison" as needlesly highbrow?
BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Jan 6, 2017 |
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Jan 6, 2017 23:54
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Murgos posted:You specifically started snarking on the films need for wide spread appeal because it doesn't fit your internal vision of perfection. If you can't get past that maybe you need to go be by yourself for a while.  Murgos posted:The point is that the movie you want not only will never be made but can never be made. man you're making a lot of assumptions about what kind of movie i want based on my criticisms of how lovely the action sequences are and how bad the writing is the movies we are discussing here are bad. they're not good movies. there are good movies; good movies exist. even good movies with very large budgets, like these movies, exist. despite the universal need to appeal to a wide audience and turn a profit, good movies have been made in the past and will continue to be made in the future. these movies, however, are bad. loving hell mate chernobyl kinsman fucked around with this message at 01:02 on Jan 7, 2017 |
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Jan 7, 2017 00:54
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Subtlety is not a necessary quality for a good film, even one that adapts a work that possesses subtlety.
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Jan 7, 2017 01:18
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The films are too quick to anger, is my objection.
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Jan 7, 2017 01:28
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chernobyl kinsman posted:
dsyp
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Jan 7, 2017 04:00
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On another topic: How do you read Fingolfin's battle against Morgoth, specifically as to why he did it. The easy interpretation is that he was a brave, shining Elf Lord with a fast horse and a sharp sword who epically fought Morgoth face to face. The other interpretation is that Fingolfin was irresponsible, selfish, and acting out of pure frustration, instead of doing his duty to help his army survive, by doing the less glamorous task of guiding them through a retreat. Not that Fingolfin's actions were solely selfish, but it seems that challenging Morgoth to one on one combat is at least a little macho, for lack of a better term.
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Jan 7, 2017 07:21
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glowing-fish posted:On another topic: The book is fairly explicit in describing the state of utter despair Fingolfin was in. I'd call it a mix of suicide-by-
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Jan 7, 2017 12:53
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I liked the movies AND the books. I always read Fingolfin going after Morgoth as him completely losing his poo poo and pulling a Feanor at last: an epic, legendary, story-worthy mistake in judgement backed up only by one's own personal raw power.
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Jan 7, 2017 13:02
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VanSandman posted:Yeah, Glorfindel was such a non-entity Tolkein apparently forgot he had killed the bastard once already in his unpublished Silmarils and had to retcon him (don't think retcon is the right word here) for the Lord of the Rings. If you kill someone off but don't publish it, is that character really dead?
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Jan 9, 2017 10:55
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If a character dies but then you start the book over did they really die?
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Jan 9, 2017 21:04
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when you die in the draft, you die for real
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Jan 10, 2017 01:25
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Golfimbul was named "Fingolfin" in the initial draft of The Hobbit. Tolkien used "Glorfindel" because he needed an elf that was majestic but also minor, and the hero of the retreat from Gondolin had the appropriate name. In a mildly different alternate universe, they'd have met "Ecthelion" on the road instead. The same process led to the reuse of "Legolas". Then Tolkien decided the two characters were one and the same, but since elves reincarnated through natural birth at that point, there was no real issue. It's not until his very late work that Glorfy becomes someone important, as an outlay of shifting thought on reincarnation and the wizards. But hell, Glorfindel's at least more memorable than Erestor or Galdor.
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Jan 10, 2017 15:02
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Brainiac Five posted:Golfimbul was named "Fingolfin" in the initial draft of The Hobbit. Tolkien used "Glorfindel" because he needed an elf that was majestic but also minor, and the hero of the retreat from Gondolin had the appropriate name. In a mildly different alternate universe, they'd have met "Ecthelion" on the road instead. Just had to make that "golf" joke work 
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Jan 10, 2017 15:07
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Arwen sucks in the films, it's so dumb to have a super powerful badass show up at the climax of the first act and then transform into the hero's meek stay-at-home girlfriend for the rest of a trilogy. Glorfindel would have objectively been better, because he didn't have another completely different, gratingly contradictory role to play alongside the cameo. Using Legolas as Bakshi did would have been even better. Frodo not riding Asfaloth alone diminishes his character and arc.
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Jan 10, 2017 16:09
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aragorn should have married glorfindel
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Jan 10, 2017 17:26
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Brainiac Five posted:Golfimbul was named "Fingolfin" in the initial draft of The Hobbit. Tolkien used "Glorfindel" because he needed an elf that was majestic but also minor, and the hero of the retreat from Gondolin had the appropriate name. In a mildly different alternate universe, they'd have met "Ecthelion" on the road instead. Are Erestor or Galdor mentioned anywhere else? I only really noticed them for the first time on my last read-through.
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Jan 10, 2017 17:40
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Ynglaur posted:Are Erestor or Galdor mentioned anywhere else? I only really noticed them for the first time on my last read-through. Nope. We actually know nothing about them beyond them being more likely to be Noldor than Sindar.
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Jan 10, 2017 18:23
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They both have more dialogue than any female character.
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Jan 10, 2017 19:57
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sassassin posted:They both have more dialogue than any female character. On the other hand Shelob is a strong female character 
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Jan 10, 2017 20:29
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Galadriel probably has more to say than either of them and probably Eowyn as well, but no other woman in the series even comes close.
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Jan 10, 2017 21:02
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Hey, at least it's not Foundation. 
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Jan 10, 2017 21:07
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my dad posted:Hey, at least it's not Foundation. now there's a bad series!
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Jan 10, 2017 21:09
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sweet geek swag posted:Galadriel probably has more to say than either of them and probably Eowyn as well, but no other woman in the series even comes close. People should read Arda Reconstructed, it was written by a maniac who went through all the Silmarillion material at Marquette and the Bodleian to look at the development of the published Silm and he found Chris Tolkien cut out a lot of incidental women from the Silm stuff.
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Jan 11, 2017 01:35
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Sounds interesting, though I wasn't really referring to the Silmarillion. Obviously Luthien, Melian, Yavanna and Varda would all be in that class as well as well as several others. I'm actually reading the History of Middle Earth right now. Honestly, Christopher Tolkien has some very specific interests in regards to his father's work, and I've noticed that a lot of the bigger plot questions I have go unasked or at least glossed over. It wouldn't surprise me if something similar was happening to a lot of the female characters. Like Idril, who is a really important part of the first Gondolin story, but that story never got rewritten, so in the Sil she is largely reduced to Tuors wife.
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Jan 11, 2017 02:46
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Brainiac Five posted:People should read Arda Reconstructed, it was written by a maniac who went through all the Silmarillion material at Marquette and the Bodleian to look at the development of the published Silm and he found Chris Tolkien cut out a lot of incidental women from the Silm stuff. Can you make an alt that just posts interesting things in here when you get your month long probations for wishing death on people. You are extraordinarily knowledgeable on this stuff and I really enjoy reading what you have to say.
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Jan 11, 2017 23:59
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SHISHKABOB posted:Can you make an alt that just posts interesting things in here when you get your month long probations for wishing death on people. You are extraordinarily knowledgeable on this stuff and I really enjoy reading what you have to say. he can't because he's mentally ill
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Jan 12, 2017 05:48
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sweet geek swag posted:It wouldn't surprise me if something similar was happening to a lot of the female characters. Like Idril, who is a really important part of the first Gondolin story, but that story never got rewritten, so in the Sil she is largely reduced to Tuors wife. The Fall of Gondolin posted:At length [Idril] had sped the most part of her guard down the secret way with Earendel, constraining them to depart with imperious words, yet was her grief great at that sundering. She herself would bide, said she, nor seek to live after her lord; and then she fared about gathering womenfolk and wanderers and speeding them down the tunnel, and smiting marauders with her small band; nor might they dissuade her from bearing a sword. As well as being maybe the most sensible person in Gondolin, Idril was a badass.
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Jan 12, 2017 20:47
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Hang on. If Sauron was wearing the ring then he should have been invisible. So how did Isildur see him to cut the ring from his hand? What am I missing?
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Jan 28, 2017 00:52
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Josef K. Sourdust posted:Hang on. If Sauron was wearing the ring then he should have been invisible. So how did Isildur see him to cut the ring from his hand? What am I missing? Turning invisible was just a thing for some people that wore the ring. It had to do with their presence in the "spirit world".
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Jan 28, 2017 01:45
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It was also a sign of the Ring's power over the wearer. Bombadil put on the Ring but it couldn't overpower him so he didn't turn invisible.
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Jan 28, 2017 01:53
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hmmm.... The ring of plot convenience methinks. Is this info coming from JRRT or from Middle Earth Expanded Universe (TM)?
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Jan 28, 2017 10:46
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