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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:Ares has been confirmed as the main villain of Wonder Woman For a second there I confused properties and thought we'd get Marvel's Ares on the big screen and got really excited. I want to hear his big speech about how tactical retreats and supply lines and Genever Conventions are all crap that that other god of war worries about.
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Jan 11, 2017 16:08
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ungulateman posted:Like, BvS has the same general concept, except Batman is really obviously wrong - even if he's wrong for the right reasons. Superman actually could be an existential threat, and he does need limitations - it's just that those limitations are human morality, because he is a genuinely good person. Well, unfortunately, the movie says that he's not a genuinely good person. He goes bad if Lois dies. Which is honestly kind of a bummer.
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Jan 11, 2017 16:17
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Well, unfortunately, the movie says that he's not a genuinely good person. He goes bad if Lois dies. Which is honestly kind of a bummer. I looked at it more as the movie showing that he has the potential to go bad, as we all do, because we are human. He also has the potential to turn away from that and be a good person in spite of it, because he is human. In one way I guess that's a bummer, because no, Superman is not a perfect infallible God. Like any other person, we as a society have to give him the benefit of the doubt that he will do the right thing, until he doesn't.
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Jan 11, 2017 16:33
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Well, unfortunately, the movie says that he's not a genuinely good person. He goes bad if Lois dies. Which is honestly kind of a bummer. "You let her die" could very well have referred to Martha. "Lois is the key" a scene later may be referring to different events since Flash time travelled too far. Or refer to the same event since listening to Lois is what stops Batman from killing Clark. Hmm, actually the nightmare makes a lot of sense as a consequence if Batman killed Superman. Superman comes back to life and serves Darkeseid because of disgust with humanity killing his mother. Batman has lost entirely who he was and now just flat out kills with handguns. Flash tried to travel back to stop Batman from doing it, goes too far, tells him to listen to Lois. greatn fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Jan 11, 2017 |
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Jan 11, 2017 16:54
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You know if all Batman does is sing Superman's praises, and that's all Flash knows about him "You were right about him, you were always right!" That's gonna make that message even more awkward.
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Jan 11, 2017 16:59
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Burkion posted:You know if all Batman does is sing Superman's praises, and that's all Flash knows about him "You were right about him, you were always right!" What if that flash was from the knightmare future as I outlined in my edit.
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Jan 11, 2017 17:00
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I love the visuals of Batman's Vision but I found it to be a little awkward. Not as bad as everyone makes it to be but the choreography is a little stilted and doesn't quite work, and the Bad Superman turn and making his morality all about "her" (either wife or mother) undercuts the movie's theme that he really is a good guy trying to do the right thing.
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Jan 11, 2017 17:13
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edit; wrong thread.
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Jan 11, 2017 17:20
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:I love the visuals of Batman's Vision but I found it to be a little awkward. Not as bad as everyone makes it to be but the choreography is a little stilted and doesn't quite work, and the Bad Superman turn and making his morality all about "her" (either wife or mother) undercuts the movie's theme that he really is a good guy trying to do the right thing.
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Jan 11, 2017 17:24
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Rewatched Civil War yday, that movie really flows and is just action packed from end to end. So much fun.
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Jan 11, 2017 17:27
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:I love the visuals of Batman's Vision but I found it to be a little awkward. Not as bad as everyone makes it to be but the choreography is a little stilted and doesn't quite work, and the Bad Superman turn and making his morality all about "her" (either wife or mother) undercuts the movie's theme that he really is a good guy trying to do the right thing. In my theory I'm thinking it's less about "her" and more about Batman's actions. Superman turned against humanity because he looked at Batman and found them wanting.
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Jan 11, 2017 18:44
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Shageletic posted:Rewatched Civil War yday, that movie really flows and is just action packed from end to end. So much fun. I know people kept hating on the airport fight but I liked it a lot. The shots of them running at each other were dorky as hell obviously but the actual action was fun and it was cool to see everyone's abilities used against each other, plus I went in totally blind so the build up and execution of Giant Man was amazing.
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Jan 11, 2017 19:07
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greatn posted:In my theory I'm thinking it's less about "her" and more about Batman's actions. Superman turned against humanity because he looked at Batman and found them wanting. I guess. It just seems like the guy who turned down being King of New Krypton and sacrificed every last vestige of his native culture to defend Earth would need something truly horrific to push him over that line. Something like, I don't know, they fire a nuke at him when he goes back to Kansas and it kills every single person in Smallville. Basically showing that We Are Zod, Too.
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Jan 11, 2017 19:32
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:I guess. It just seems like the guy who turned down being King of New Krypton and sacrificed every last vestige of his native culture to defend Earth would need something truly horrific to push him over that line. Something like, I don't know, they fire a nuke at him when he goes back to Kansas and it kills every single person in Smallville. Basically showing that We Are Zod, Too. Man, if the government fires ANOTHER nuke at Superman in the next movie I'm gonna roll my eyes so fuckin' hard.
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Jan 11, 2017 19:34
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Neo Rasa posted:I know people kept hating on the airport fight but I liked it a lot. The shots of them running at each other were dorky as hell obviously but the actual action was fun and it was cool to see everyone's abilities used against each other, plus I went in totally blind so the build up and execution of Giant Man was amazing. There was some awkward compositing at the beginning of the airport fight, and also anytime people ran they looked like they were doing an impression of someone running rather than actually running. But other than that it was really good. As is usual for the MCU, when the CG artists took over the action direction it got significantly better, with less choppy editing.
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Jan 11, 2017 19:36
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Drifter posted:Man, if the government fires ANOTHER nuke at Superman in the next movie I'm gonna roll my eyes so fuckin' hard. They can do it only if he comes back to life at pre-Crisis power levels. Like he catches the nuke, crushes it into a little ball, and the explosion is contained inside of his cupped hands. All you hear is a *fwump* and you see his hands briefly go transparent in x-ray light.
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Jan 11, 2017 19:38
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greatn posted:In my theory I'm thinking it's less about "her" and more about Batman's actions. Superman turned against humanity because he looked at Batman and found them wanting. You can see some of this in Clark's reaction to Perry's brusque dismissal of his investigation into Batman. A vigilante avenger so brutal even the people he rescues are terrified of him is old hat and less worthy of coverage than a charity soiree puff piece. If Batman was in any way responsible for either Martha or Lois's deaths in the Knightmare timeline, the dovetailing works perfectly.
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Jan 11, 2017 20:02
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We already know from Superman IV: The Quest for Peace how that would turn out. Actually there was an episode of the George Reeves Superman series that was chilling to me when I saw it as a kid. Superman gets mega irradiated while preventing a nuclear meltdown. Basically he just like walks into the nuclear plant core and manually moves some cooling rods around or whatever so he prevents this massive nuclear disaster and saves hundreds of people. The radiation has zero effect on him personally but like any living thing he walks by afterwards would get immediate radiation sickness and die, any plants he comes near immediately shrivel up and wilt to death immediately, etc.
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Jan 11, 2017 20:03
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The thing to remember about dark future evil Superman is that he's still not actually turned against humanity. He's a fascist cult leading dear leader type guy, but he's not killing all humans and tattooing Zod Was Right on their foreheads. It's a world where instead of Pa Kent being wrong while Jor-El was right, they were both wrong. Humanity does fear Kal-El, but they also found a way to hurt him through Lois/Martha/Her. Something that changed his self given mission from showing humanity the way a better world, to dragging humanity toward a "better way". It's still not a Kryptonian dystopia of doom, but he's lost much of his humanity at the same time.
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Jan 11, 2017 20:04
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Superman becomes the every-girlfriend and during his death nee "Healing Matrix" he has a bad dream about Batman doing heinous poo poo and when he wakes up he spends half the movie being super-pissed off at Batman.
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Jan 11, 2017 20:06
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Neo Rasa posted:I know people kept hating on the airport fight but I liked it a lot. The shots of them running at each other were dorky as hell obviously but the actual action was fun and it was cool to see everyone's abilities used against each other, plus I went in totally blind so the build up and execution of Giant Man was amazing. Yeah it was pretty imaginative and Spider-man in motion was a real treat. Makes me really hungry for more of him.
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Jan 11, 2017 20:09
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Grendels Dad posted:For a second there I confused properties and thought we'd get Marvel's Ares on the big screen and got really excited. I want to hear his big speech about how tactical retreats and supply lines and Genever Conventions are all crap that that other god of war worries about. Athena, goddess of outsmarting and outsmirking your opponent. 
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Jan 11, 2017 20:42
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Shageletic posted:Rewatched Civil War yday, that movie really flows and is just action packed from end to end. So much fun. It was decent but had too many extraneous subplots. Who cares about Wanda and Vision, or Spiderman, save that stuff for Avengers III-----there's a pretty good movie in there about Cap, Bucky, Zemo and Iron Man but it's only an hour long and buried in a lot of previews for other stuff.
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Jan 11, 2017 22:22
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Shageletic posted:Rewatched Civil War yday, that movie really flows and is just action packed from end to end. So much fun. I agree completely, I was surprised to see such backlash in this thread. I'd go so far as to call Civil War my favorite superhero movie.
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Jan 11, 2017 22:30
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I think mine's still Blade
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Jan 11, 2017 22:32
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I'm guessing the Flash's "you were right about him" will be Batman refusing to believe that Superman has actually turned utterly towards evil. And Lois is the key probably doesn't need to be explained. Also if it's mind control Darkseid will probably use the Anti-Life Equation in some fashion because it is literally a negation of free will by the total crushing of hope.
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Jan 11, 2017 22:37
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"The Anti-Life Equation" brings a smile to face every time I read it.
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Jan 11, 2017 22:41
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To keep it modern Darkseid should use the Anti-Vaxx Equation.
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Jan 11, 2017 22:46
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Hodgepodge posted:I'm guessing the Flash's "you were right about him" will be Batman refusing to believe that Superman has actually turned utterly towards evil. And Lois is the key probably doesn't need to be explained. The anti-life equation is just no match for some horrific Midwestern jello casserole and Ma Kent's wise words of encouragement. You may have crushed hope, but this lime jello's got shaved vegetables and canned fruit in it. Checkmate, Darkseid.
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Jan 11, 2017 22:56
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To defeat Darkseid Batman and the Flash booby trap every sofa and reclining chair in the world.
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Jan 11, 2017 23:06
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WENTZ WAGON NUI posted:It was decent but had too many extraneous subplots. Who cares about Wanda and Vision, or Spiderman, save that stuff for Avengers III-----there's a pretty good movie in there about Cap, Bucky, Zemo and Iron Man but it's only an hour long and buried in a lot of previews for other stuff. I dunno, I thought the Wanda/Vision stuff went well with the whole setting the boundaries for being superheroes theme the movie was going for, where the robot really tries to act human, and the human can't help but be something else. It shows where Iron Man's head is, pathologically unable to let things go, and Vision's concurrence with that view, a mechanical mathematical analysis of variances, at odds with Captain America's gut level of moral rectitude. I thought Spider-man/Black Panther fit organically into the movie (well, the latter more than the former, but the former justified by how great his inclusion was), and each had believable movtivations tying into the greater thematic hole (accepting authority/embracing revenge, respectively). EDIT: I think the mystery element helped propel the non-violent parts of the flick, and was a great inclusion. Superheroes are going to need stuff like this to justify themsleves as we move into the next dozen movies of 'em.
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Jan 11, 2017 23:11
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MacheteZombie posted:"The Anti-Life Equation" brings a smile to face every time I read it. "death" is a bit strong, we're rebranding it as "alt-life" now.
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Jan 12, 2017 00:12
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Well, unfortunately, the movie says that he's not a genuinely good person. He goes bad if Lois dies. Which is honestly kind of a bummer.
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Jan 12, 2017 01:25
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Martman posted:The movie says that a crazy guy dreams Superman is bad. The movie takes some effort to show it's not just a crazy guy's dream.
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Jan 12, 2017 01:30
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Even if it's not just his dream, I'm not taking everything Flash says there at face value. He could be entirely wrong.
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Jan 12, 2017 01:34
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:I guess. It just seems like the guy who turned down being King of New Krypton and sacrificed every last vestige of his native culture to defend Earth would need something truly horrific to push him over that line. Something like, I don't know, they fire a nuke at him when he goes back to Kansas and it kills every single person in Smallville. Basically showing that We Are Zod, Too. I figure something like that might have happened following the gradual alienation of Superman from humanity following the disappearance of Superman's last two living links to humanity. The loss of some specific person just got the ball rolling.
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Jan 12, 2017 01:42
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Dinklage! http://variety.com/2017/film/news/peter-dinklage-avengers-infinity-war-1201954237/
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Jan 12, 2017 01:58
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:The movie takes some effort to show it's not just a crazy guy's dream.
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Jan 12, 2017 01:59
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The dream is a dream, but Flash really does appear in the batcave---that happens after Batman wakes up. Naturally, Batman equates the dream and the visit as related, but Flash didn't intend to show up at that point: "you were right about him!" and "Lois is the key!" probably have nothing to do with the dream or the words "she was my world, and you took her from me." HOWEVER, the fact that dream-Superman uses those words (plus the appearance of Parademons in the dream) means it was more than a random play of neurons while Batman slept. Nevertheless I don't see where it's inferrable that this necessarily would happen if Lois were "taken" from Kal.
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Jan 12, 2017 02:07
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Yeah, it seems to be a bit much to call Batman's dreams visions of the future. I mean, I guess I personally missed that those flying things were Parademons and that Flash showed up for real and not just in a "I woke up, no I didn't" dream. So I should probably go rewatchng that sequence. But even still unless Batman suddenly has psychic powers I don't think we should be taking it for granted that Supes is going evil Space Hitler if Lois dies. That's just Batman's obvious fear, that if you cut his tie story humanity he'll turn into the alien threat he's afraid of. If something or someone else played off that and influenced some ideas, or conveniently time jumped right after, I guess I have to go watch again now.
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Jan 12, 2017 02:18
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