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Do you ever go to the movies? That's way more than one pound per hour of entertainment. It's all relative (to your income, your budget, your interests, etc.) I was in Chicago this summer and a friend I haven't seen in many years drove up to meet us for dinner. Along with my wife's cousin, we went out to a sushi place and I treated them. It was over $200 with the drinks, for a good meal and a couple hours of socializing. Way, way more than I'd normally pay for a meal out! A special occasion thing, for sure. But... to me, well worth it. We could have found a much cheaper option, of course, but it was a special expense and I can afford it. If your entire entertainment budget for a month is like $50, than that might seem like an extravagant expense. If you make $100k a year, that might be a routine Saturday. It's amazing how much your perspective changes when you've got more money. When I was a starving college student I used to eat on $20 a week, buying mostly very cheap groceries and cooking at home. Now I'm in my 40s, I have a career and a decent income, I'm financially secure, and a $20 impulse purchase doesn't require much thinking about. 
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Jan 11, 2017 03:48
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I backed KD even though that makes me a pariah goon. The base game has no titty miniatures in it as far as I know.... there might be one female survivor in the white robe thing who is topless, I can't tell. Either way, she is going in the garbage. The base game is also $200 or $250 depending on whether you got the early bird, it is not a $1000. If people want to claim it is a $1000, then we have to say that every game costs the sum of all expansion material or DLC. At $200-250, that price is comparable to the other luxury miniatures like GW or PP. That is not a justification to somehow prove its worth. Just a statement that it really isn't all that different from other similar products in the industry. I think some of the minis are absolutely fantastic. These are my personal favorites, no tits on them either -   Also, regarding how people waste money. I'm playing a Final Fantasy mobile game where there are people literally putting in $500-1000 every week into a virtual slot machine in hops of catching a digital barbie. There is no rhyme or reason to entertainment purchases. For most people, it is not a rational decision based on carefully weighed pros and cons. It really doesn't go much further than "I want, I buy". Further, it is *their* money. They acquired it through their own personal sweat and toil, they can use it as they see fit. I will now return to the leper colony forthwith where I shall live in darkness and shame.
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Jan 11, 2017 04:04
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Doodmons posted:Huh, genuinely didn't know that, all you ever hear about 3D printers is how amazing the end results are. That's entirely fair, in that case. So I'm not a big miniatures gamer but I was just having a conversation with one of my friends today who's just got into Dropfleet Commander. £120 got him more plastic spaceships than he could ever use in one sitting, he gets to paint them and by all accounts the sculpt quality is exceptional and on top of all that apparently the game itself is one of the best he's ever played and one he can see himself playing for years. £120 is quite a lot of money but that sounds like he's getting a really good deal out of it. Is £1000 worth spending on that same deal? Maybe. Like, if you know you're definitely going to be playing this for years and not going to get bored of it then it's probably worth it. Otherwise hell no. One of the thing to remember with miniatures is you can often take your collection and play a different game. The more 'niche' the miniatures the more expensive and less reusable they tend to be. Dropfleet commander doesn't have a ton of other games around, but Warhammer fantasy has defections to KoW when age of sigmar turned up as they are very similar games. Historical are cheaper again due to competition and have the advantage of TONS of games being around. If you decide bolt action is terrible you can rebase some of your guys and go play CoC or whatever. For 120 GBP you're getting a company of historical minis plus tanks and artillery so that's a pretty flexible force that can play a bunch of games. quote:I don't have opinions on whether Kingdom Death is a pile of poo poo or not - I'm not a miniatures gamer - but spending that much money on something sight unseen on a Kickstarter? gently caress me. I feel like KD in particular is terrible (aside from the titty miniatures which are also terrible) because it's a bad game. Long, repetitive and with tons of randomness? gently caress no. And if you're just buying it for the miniatures I hope you play a lot of RPGs - there are some cool minis in the box (see above), but what are you going to DO with them? And I don't like buying 'premium' minis for D&D becaue you dont get to use them very often Cthulhu Dreams fucked around with this message at 05:45 on Jan 11, 2017 |
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Jan 11, 2017 04:17
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Doodmons posted:
It's not exactly sight unseen. This is the second KD Kickstarter and the original project shipped and people have been playing and reviewing it. I mean, I wouldn't drop a grand or two on it, but that's because a) I don't have that level of disposable cash and b) it looks like I would hate it. There's enough out there to make at least a semi-informed choice, though.
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Jan 11, 2017 04:19
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Cinnamon Bear posted:But there's a Kingdom Death thread that was set up because this always happens when it comes up here. Yep! Take it to the Kingdom Death thread please.
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Jan 11, 2017 04:29
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:I feel like KD in particular is terrible (aside from the titty miniatures which are also terrible) because it's a bad game. Long, repetitive and with tons of randomness? gently caress no. And if you're just buying it for the miniatures I hope you play a lot of RPGs. Well it looks like there might be some competition: https://www.level99games.com/seventh-cross The details are light right now but seriously.... Level99 making a dark dungeon crawl. LEVEL loving 99. Imagine KD:Monster made by someone with a talent for game design. It probably won't have minis, which means it won't be 200+ dollars.
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Jan 11, 2017 04:37
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LordAba posted:Well it looks like there might be some competition: Holy poo poo yes I will waste some loving money on this
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Jan 11, 2017 04:54
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LordAba posted:Well it looks like there might be some competition: This looks good but how will I know its a MATURE game for ADULTS if there aren't dicks everywhere? Can I punch a monster's "ding dong" off?
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Jan 11, 2017 05:55
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I mean let's be real, it's not theme that makes a good dungeon crawl type of game, but mechanics. As much as I like L99 games, and I like them a lot, if they don't do something better than some form of "roll to hit," then it's likely going to be a slog. Still looking forward to it though since their games are really well-designed, even if their rulebooks and templating often are not.
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Jan 11, 2017 06:02
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LordAba posted:Well it looks like there might be some competition: Man, I'm fine with 200 dollars for a great game with cool minis I can use with D&D (though my growing pile of painted reaper bones is filling that out), but cheaper is good too as well. That looks pretty cool. I'm all in on the gloomhaven hype train ATM, but if this is GMless I'm in. I like the different setting and legacy elements.
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Jan 11, 2017 06:15
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LordAba posted:Well it looks like there might be some competition: I'm glad they're doing something with the characters from the second Exceed wave, which look way more interesting and way less skeevy than the first one.  at this character, though: (He looks like a thinkly-veiled Ragna knockoff.)
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Jan 11, 2017 13:51
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:That looks pretty cool. I'm all in on the gloomhaven hype train ATM, but if this is GMless I'm in. I like the different setting and legacy elements. What legacy stuff? I'm not seeing much on the Seventh Cross page about that.
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Jan 11, 2017 13:54
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Cassa posted:What legacy stuff? I'm not seeing much on the Seventh Cross page about that. It's how I read this: quote:Unravel the vast conspiracy at the heart of Seventh Cross's main story, as you fight your way through a multi-episode plot where each decision may have far-reaching consequences and change the game's ending. I may be projecting though - I guess you could do this other ways, but that implies your decisions in each scene changes future scenarios
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Jan 11, 2017 21:59
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GrandpaPants posted:I mean let's be real, it's not theme that makes a good dungeon crawl type of game, but mechanics. As much as I like L99 games, and I like them a lot, if they don't do something better than some form of "roll to hit," then it's likely going to be a slog. Doesn't pretty much every L99 game eschew dice in favor of other resolution mechanics? BattleCon, Argent, Exceed, I have no idea how Pixel Tactics plays but I'm given to assume it isn't dice-based, Millennium Blades, etc.
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Jan 12, 2017 00:12
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LordAba posted:Well it looks like there might be some competition: I love their worker placement game so I could definitely see being into this. I also just preordered Gloomhaven... Why can't I be excited about any games that I can play right now?
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Jan 12, 2017 00:33
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Lemon-Lime posted:I'm glad they're doing something with the characters from the second Exceed wave, which look way more interesting and way less skeevy than the first one. Looks more like Sin to me  
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Jan 12, 2017 00:36
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The Moon Monster posted:I love their worker placement game so I could definitely see being into this. I also just preordered Gloomhaven... Why can't I be excited about any games that I can play right now? Bust out the gloomhaven print and play.. guess that's only one adventure. We've played it a couple of times to try and work out what characters we want to play when the real thing lands in my mailbox.
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Jan 12, 2017 01:09
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:I may be projecting though - I guess you could do this other ways, but that implies your decisions in each scene changes future scenarios That's not legacy, that's just a branching campaign. They're cool, but they're more common and have been around for longer. Legacy games involve hidden unlocks and, at least classically, permanent modifications to game components (including destruction) so that your game literally doesn't play the same at the end of a campaign as when you started. If Seventh Cross is doing that I didn't see any sign of it. (Also it doesn't feel like how Level 99 has historically operated but there's a first time for everything. Kai Tave posted:Doesn't pretty much every L99 game eschew dice in favor of other resolution mechanics? BattleCon, Argent, Exceed, I have no idea how Pixel Tactics plays but I'm given to assume it isn't dice-based, Millennium Blades, etc. Pixel Tactics has no dice, yeah. I can't think of any dice anywhere in any Level 99 game I've played, really.
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Jan 12, 2017 01:12
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malkav11 posted:That's not legacy, that's just a branching campaign. They're cool, but they're more common and have been around for longer. Legacy games involve hidden unlocks and, at least classically, permanent modifications to game components (including destruction) so that your game literally doesn't play the same at the end of a campaign as when you started. If Seventh Cross is doing that I didn't see any sign of it. (Also it doesn't feel like how Level 99 has historically operated but there's a first time for everything. Yeah true, I feel like 'legacy' is a poorly defined concept generally. I mean consider a branching campaign that 'unlocks' different things based on the decisions you make. Is that legacy or not? Anyway it seems really exciting, Gloomhaven has shown me that you can do totally awesome card driven combat in an dungeon crawler so I'm keen to see what these guys do.
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Jan 12, 2017 01:23
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:Yeah true, I feel like 'legacy' is a poorly defined concept generally. I mean consider a branching campaign that 'unlocks' different things based on the decisions you make. Is that legacy or not? Anyway it seems really exciting, Gloomhaven has shown me that you can do totally awesome card driven combat in an dungeon crawler so I'm keen to see what these guys do. The thing about Legacy games is that they make changes which permanently affect the game forevermore, period. Tearing up one-use components, applying stickers to things, writing on the board itself, etc. Imperial Assault, for example, has a branching campaign with variable outcomes and unlocks, but it's not a Legacy-style game because at the end of the day you can clean slate reset everything back to 0 and start over fresh, but you can't do that with Risk Legacy because you've already set the capital of the world on the board, everyone's chosen their special abilities and thrown the others in the trash, and Australia has been renamed the Republic of gently caress You Steve. I guess the easiest way to define Legacy mechanics would be "destructive changes."
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Jan 12, 2017 01:32
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Kai Tave posted:The thing about Legacy games is that they make changes which permanently affect the game forevermore, period. Tearing up one-use components, applying stickers to things, writing on the board itself, etc. Imperial Assault, for example, has a branching campaign with variable outcomes and unlocks, but it's not a Legacy-style game because at the end of the day you can clean slate reset everything back to 0 and start over fresh, but you can't do that with Risk Legacy because you've already set the capital of the world on the board, everyone's chosen their special abilities and thrown the others in the trash, and Australia has been renamed the Republic of gently caress You Steve. Yeah your defintion is fair enough - and to be honest, that would be something I'd really love in a dungeon crawler. I'm just winding up pandemic legacy and other than the quarterbacking, I god drat love it. Gloomhaven dips its toe into the pool of legacy elements (unlockables, some cosmetic permanent board changes, the only thing that seems very 'legacy' is you can spend huge sums of gold to permanently change some powers), but I feel like there is a lot of potential there gloomhaven isn't using, and I'm not concerned about replayability on these big dungeon crawlers - if they are GMless. I'm probably not going to get to 60% of gloomhaven's 90+ scenarios so very happy for it to be one and done (it's taken us a year to play pandemic legacy, but say we play two scenarios a fortnight that means exhausting the content would take two years once you factor in holidays etc), but if the game requires an overlord or whatever the ability to replay it matters a lot more.
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Jan 12, 2017 01:39
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LordAba posted:Well it looks like there might be some competition: I hope one of the stretch goals for this kickstarter is to make the art not-anime.
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Jan 12, 2017 03:05
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cyberia posted:I hope one of the stretch goals for this kickstarter is to make the art not-anime. Nah, it's L99 at the end of the day. Good games hidden behind animu art and terribly formatted rule books is their running MO.
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Jan 12, 2017 03:13
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Anime art is good and pure
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Jan 12, 2017 04:02
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cyberia posted:I hope one of the stretch goals for this kickstarter is to make the art not-anime. You should be thankful they aren't using the art from the first Exceed set which featured about 200% more unnecessary scantily clad waifish anime waifus. The new set, which this art is from, actually doesn't look like a complete dumpster fire.
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Jan 12, 2017 05:26
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Neopie posted:Anime art is good and pure Anime art is a mistake.
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Jan 12, 2017 06:14
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S.J. posted:Looks more like Sin to me He's both mashed up together. Also I doubt that Seventh Cross will be a $200 minis game. L99 do cards, and there are several card-based dungeon crawlers out there already, and having rooms drawn from a deck is the easiest way to make it GMless.
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Jan 12, 2017 09:30
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Kai Tave posted:You should be thankful they aren't using the art from the first Exceed set which featured about 200% more unnecessary scantily clad waifish anime waifus. The new set, which this art is from, actually doesn't look like a complete dumpster fire. TO be fair, that wasn't their own setting either: it was Jasco's original setting.
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Jan 12, 2017 13:02
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PrinnySquadron posted:TO be fair, that wasn't their own setting either: it was Jasco's original setting. Which explains why it was a dumpster fire. Jasco is the loving worst and I AM STILL SO ANGRY that FFG sold them the license to UFS instead of turning it into an LCG.
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Jan 12, 2017 17:18
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I'm liking the look of this Journey to the West RPG that just cropped up. I'm a sucker for anything with the Monkey King in it, and I've enjoyed some of the author's Gloranthan publications. Has anyone had any experience with the first edition of the game?
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Jan 12, 2017 17:28
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The Burning Wheel folks are kickstarting a world book for Torchbearer, entitled Middarmark: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/burningwheel/middarmark $10 for PDF (although if you backed the original Torchbearer project, it sounds like they will be giving you the PDF of this for free - not sure if that's tier-based or not) $20 for PDF and softcover (no hardcover planned) And further tiers including the core book, player deck, etc. No stretch goals. Torchbearer was pretty cool, and I imagine this will be too.
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Jan 13, 2017 04:01
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Yeah, I'm pretty excited to see the background developed. Torchbearer's implied setting is uniquely dark.
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Jan 13, 2017 04:19
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S.J. posted:Which explains why it was a dumpster fire. Jasco is the loving worst and I AM STILL SO ANGRY that FFG sold them the license to UFS instead of turning it into an LCG. What's so bad about Jasco? Can't say I've ever heard of them.
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Jan 13, 2017 04:36
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S.J. posted:Which explains why it was a dumpster fire. Jasco is the loving worst and I AM STILL SO ANGRY that FFG sold them the license to UFS instead of turning it into an LCG. What's so wrong about letting Tournament Champions and close friends of employees create cards and that laugh at balance and influence the game to the point that it makes Mercadian Masques era MTG look like a shining symbol of fairness?  Bruv you have no idea how hard I feel your pain right now Does anyone have any firsthand experience with Shadows over Brimstone? I'm intrigued, but dropping a benny for what looks like Arkham Horror is a put off at the moment.
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Jan 13, 2017 04:36
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Father Wendigo posted:What's so wrong about letting Tournament Champions and close friends of employees create cards and that laugh at balance and influence the game to the point that it makes Mercadian Masques era MTG look like a shining symbol of fairness? I was a kickstarter backer and was able to get some games of Shadows over Brimstone in before I left the country. I don't have a ton of experience, and a veritable ton of plastic is still getting shipped to my old US address. We played it with 3 players, with access to both core sets, and completed a little mini-campaign that wound up with a sheriff who mutated into looking like a lizard man complete with a tail, and who we wound up naming the Sheriff of Lizardtown, and as he was the most effective character in the party became our mascot and leader. We laughed a lot, and had that nebulous concept of fun that isn't a very useful descriptor. For what it is though, it's nothing at all like Arkham Horror. Its a dungeon crawler like Descent or Imperial Assault, and for the price I'd probably recommend either of those games instead. They are more mechanically sound and play faster. If you've played Flying Frog games before, you'll know they are massive dicefests with fairly simple rules, and not exactly modern design. I wanted a ton of western miniatures though, because weird west is totally my jam. The dungeon crawler market feels kind of flooded these days, and I'm not sure I can make a convincing case for Shadows over Brimstone. I have good memories of playing it, but also I'm  about hauling all that plastic over the Pacific Ocean and thus probably won't play it ever again. I've also since had more satisfying dungeon crawler experiences with games like Imperial Assault. But I enjoyed painting the figures, and the theme was exactly what I wanted. It was easy to pick up and play, and set up time wasn't too bad since most scenarios have you building the dungeon as you go rather than setting it all up at once.It's an experience generator, but unless you are specifically craving cowboys vs. weirdness you're better off elsewhere.
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Jan 13, 2017 04:51
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Father Wendigo posted:Does anyone have any firsthand experience with Shadows over Brimstone? I'm intrigued, but dropping a benny for what looks like Arkham Horror is a put off at the moment. No, but my firsthand experiences with Last Night on Earth and A Touch of Evil suggest to me that Flying Frog are questionably competent at best.
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Jan 13, 2017 04:57
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I've played some Flying Frog games in the past (and I own Last Night On Earth), and it's interesting how their games have a very clear increase in complexity via adding tons of decks of cards to cover every conceivable thing that could use randomization. I feel like they're trying to make GM-less RPG, but Brimstone reminds me of Fortune & Glory in that it just does too much and required a six-person dining room table.
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Jan 13, 2017 04:59
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Evil Mastermind posted:I've played some Flying Frog games in the past (and I own Last Night On Earth), and it's interesting how their games have a very clear increase in complexity via adding tons of decks of cards to cover every conceivable thing that could use randomization. I feel like they're trying to make GM-less RPG, but Brimstone reminds me of Fortune & Glory in that it just does too much and required a six-person dining room table. Last Night on Earth I will defend to my dying breath just due to good memories with friends. I also have a soft spot for A Touch of Evil as a simpler/faster Arkham Horror that you're mostly guaranteed to win. Fortune and Glory, Conquest of Planet Earth, etc. have all been tire fires. Shadows of Brimstone is marginally more competent than those.
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Jan 13, 2017 05:04
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Evil Mastermind posted:I've played some Flying Frog games in the past (and I own Last Night On Earth), and it's interesting how their games have a very clear increase in complexity via adding tons of decks of cards to cover every conceivable thing that could use randomization. I feel like they're trying to make GM-less RPG, but Brimstone reminds me of Fortune & Glory in that it just does too much and required a six-person dining room table. And I thought Argent took up a lot of space. EDIT: Actually, it's hard to say: 
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Jan 13, 2017 05:28
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Cassa posted:What's so bad about Jasco? Can't say I've ever heard of them. I haven't really played Jasco's take on UFS (Universal Fighting System, mostly used for fighting game CCGs), but the Mega Man Board Game is... real bad for a variety of reasons. Even as excited as I am to see Mega Man Pixel Tactics, Jasco's handling of the kickstarter was a real mess as well. Generally I haven't even looked at their other stuff because CCGs are no longer anything I'm interested in, and I don't have much respect for companies that still engage in them in as a practice.
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