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It takes a LOT of effort to fully comprehend, but once you understand how all the pieces fit together the XCX ground combat is really good, and you don't even really NEED most augments (though honestly nearly every end-game capable build needs one Arts TP Gain XX unfortunately) for most of it. When I did my minimal-skell playthrough it really made me appreciate the depth and customizability the system gave you. I'd really rather they not go back to how comparatively simple the original was, personally. But I really like super complex character building systems so I'm somewhat biased, I suppose.
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Jan 13, 2017 17:52
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Caphi posted:I'd like to see them have character skills that matched or transferred to mech skills, really. X had this weird thing where you had a skell build and a ground build that had nothing to do with each other and then class talents for each that you had to take separately (or ground equipment for piloting skells). I'd like to see there be no mechs because they are boring compared to just killing giant monsters on foot. The Skell combat in XCX is what made me finally lose interest in the game. It felt like the game expected me to be fighting in the mech basically all the time after getting one.
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Jan 13, 2017 17:54
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Infinity Gaia posted:It takes a LOT of effort to fully comprehend, but once you understand how all the pieces fit together the XCX ground combat is really good, and you don't even really NEED most augments (though honestly nearly every end-game capable build needs one Arts TP Gain XX unfortunately) for most of it. When I did my minimal-skell playthrough it really made me appreciate the depth and customizability the system gave you. I'd really rather they not go back to how comparatively simple the original was, personally. But I really like super complex character building systems so I'm somewhat biased, I suppose. For most people it's just too much bother. Especially when it's not noted very well in the game or the manual. Don't get me wrong, I like having choices. But not ones that are so fiddly for so little gain. And things like not switching armours for ages because one had a buff to combat strength or whatever was boring as well.
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Jan 13, 2017 17:56
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Yeah the call out /respond system in Chronicles X (battle voices or something?) was a great natural evolution to the Chronicles battle system. Shame about the rest of the game.Internet Kraken posted:Oh I'm not saying Xenoblade is high art but its way better written than Xenoblade X is. Notably you're given reasons to actually care about the people you'll be spending the entire game with as opposed to X throwing 20+ party members at you and only 2 of them mattering. For sure. It still feels super awkward and stilted a lot of times, although it has landed a few times where I came away impressed. One thing the first game does WAY BETTER than the second is presentation; the timing and delivery of lines as well as the placement of the camera in cutscenes is generally quite good. In X the camera is usually just floating randomly while characters spout platitudes at each other in between five second pauses.
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Jan 13, 2017 18:01
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nerdz posted:For me the coolest thing about xenoblade was the world itself, being able to look at bionis and mechonis from many points of view, and the consistency of it all. That thing in the final scene of the teaser looked like Bismarck from FFXIV. Sakurazuka posted:Maybe they can take another leaf out of Tales book and actually have decent combat too. 4 player co-op combat and storyline gameplay would be rad. The multiplayer thing in XCX being limited to world tyrants was such an awful tease and being able to have friends run around in XCX with you would've been great even though 4 people working together could/would just demolish any sort of challenge. Sakurazuka posted:You're playing Taes games wrong if combat takes more than 30 seconds. What if I want to use cursed weapons to do 1 damage hits and juggle an enemy for 30minutes straight to get a 100k+ hit combo?  Tender Bender posted:Yeah the call out /respond system in Chronicles X (battle voices or something?) was a great natural evolution to the Chronicles battle system. Shame about the rest of the game. The whole "you pulled off a couple QTEs in a row so now the next few are going to have about a 1/4 or less window to hit them" thing was a dumb and awful thing though, especially considering how important those were to healing in some cases. Also the ability to revive a party member was screwy as poo poo. I don't think the game ever actually tells you what determines if/when you can revive someone (to say nothing of the AI reviving you).
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Jan 13, 2017 18:06
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Infinity Gaia posted:It takes a LOT of effort to fully comprehend, but once you understand how all the pieces fit together the XCX ground combat is really good, and you don't even really NEED most augments (though honestly nearly every end-game capable build needs one Arts TP Gain XX unfortunately) for most of it. When I did my minimal-skell playthrough it really made me appreciate the depth and customizability the system gave you. I'd really rather they not go back to how comparatively simple the original was, personally. But I really like super complex character building systems so I'm somewhat biased, I suppose. Too many choices and too much flexibility simply gets overwhelming, especially when it's not clear how much of an impact the deep customization will have. I enjoy complex character building stuff to an extent but it needs to be tight from a quantity perspective. XBX just had way, way too much and was needlessly complex for the sake of being grandiose. The systems wasn't intuitive, it wasn't clear and the means to acquire the material to build augments, super weapons and the like was foggy. I feel XBC's character building was perfect as you had arts that could be upgraded, skill trees that were descriptive and easy to follow, a gem system that was relatively easy to push through, and an affinity system that complimented gems, combat and everything in general. It was complex without being overwhelming and confusing.
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Jan 13, 2017 18:06
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Taear posted:For most people it's just too much bother. Especially when it's not noted very well in the game or the manual. Fair enough, it did take me an entire playthrough and a lot of discussing the game on various places to really put it all together which is WAY more effort than most people want to go through. But building your own class was so much fun once you got into it... Evil Fluffy posted:Also the ability to revive a party member was screwy as poo poo. I don't think the game ever actually tells you what determines if/when you can revive someone (to say nothing of the AI reviving you). You needed 3000 TP and to walk close to them. Same requirement for the AI to revive you. It wasn't complicated at all.
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Jan 13, 2017 18:06
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I'd be happy if XB2 has a cast of actual characters voiced by people who don't sound like they're on a demerol drip.
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Jan 13, 2017 18:08
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Louisgod posted:The systems wasn't intuitive, it wasn't clear and the means to acquire the material to build augments, super weapons and the like was foggy. I feel XBC's character building was perfect as you had arts that could be upgraded, skill trees that were descriptive and easy to follow, a gem system that was relatively easy to push through, and an affinity system that complimented gems, combat and everything in general. It was complex without being overwhelming and confusing. See, that's where the differences between people come in, as I felt original XC was just WAY too basic for my tastes. Hell, Shulk didn't even have to choose which arts to use! That's just too drat simple and straightforward for me.
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Jan 13, 2017 18:10
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I'll be happy with XB2 so long as I'm able to dress up my party in tank tops and jeans.
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Jan 13, 2017 18:13
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Infinity Gaia posted:You needed 3000 TP and to walk close to them. Same requirement for the AI to revive you. It wasn't complicated at all. It never told you this though, it took me a while to work it out. I think it is in the manual but a bit hidden. It's a shame how weirdly early 2000s the characters look in the trailer, I don't understand why they've gone for that. But there's gigantic monsters flying around that's all I care about with these games.
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Jan 13, 2017 18:14
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Louisgod posted:Too many choices and too much flexibility simply gets overwhelming, especially when it's not clear how much of an impact the deep customization will have. I enjoy complex character building stuff to an extent but it needs to be tight from a quantity perspective. XBX just had way, way too much and was needlessly complex for the sake of being grandiose. XBC hides skill upgrades behind random drops or random quests and spaces upgrades out so weirdly that you can have some skills maxed out and others at low levels simply because you couldn't find the poo poo. That is way more foggy and annoying than anything XBX did. XBC absolutely had better character design in terms of combat but it also came at a price to characters who were basically worthless unless you controlled them.
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Jan 13, 2017 18:16
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Oxxidation posted:I'd be happy if XB2 has a cast of actual characters voiced by people who don't sound like they're on a demerol drip. That would be nice. I think my biggest complaint about Xenoblade X was that it was an RPG with a cast comprised entirely of cardboard cutouts.
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Jan 13, 2017 18:16
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Evil Fluffy posted:
Yeah I just liked the whole thing where you could customize your party's voice triggers, and then in battle could respond with the appropriate ability for a bonus. It let you do some menu tinkering synergy, as well as giving you a bit of in battle decision-making: do I use this ability, or hold off for a voice trigger, or do I continue my planned combo or break off and respond to the voice trigger? It wasn't anything revolutionary but it added just enough on top of the system to keep things engaging. I will say that, while it was a positive thing, it contributed to the biggest downfall of the game, which was that you spent all this time mastering a system that was very poorly explained, and then the game throws it all out the window for no reason.
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Jan 13, 2017 18:21
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In my case, I liked the on-foot combat and exploration so much that I actively avoided using Skells for as long as I possibly could, to the point where when I finally did unlock them I was overwhelmingly stronger out of one than in one. They might have been handy for Phoenixing down piles of chaff and picking off hard to reach break points, but I always preferred to smash stuff with overdrive lightsaber combos whenever possible. Of course, we then hit the problem where much of the on-foot combat system still gets tossed out the window, because none of the party mechanics function when you're the only one that's still standing after the first few seconds and any sense of balance has been very thoroughly squashed.
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Jan 13, 2017 18:31
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TheKingofSprings posted:I see music by ACE and a really nice aesthetic Reminds me of tales series but worse, Nintendo really shooting for pudgy main chars as of late 
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Jan 13, 2017 18:34
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Replace all xenoblade characters with robot girls.
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Jan 13, 2017 18:35
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If they also have the talent arts of Fiora im all for it
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Jan 13, 2017 18:40
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I must have built Fiora wrong because she was pretty mediocre in my Xenoblade run. Best party member after Shulk was actually Rikki of all things. I wouldn't been able to beat the final boss without him since I was underleveled.Tender Bender posted:For sure. It still feels super awkward and stilted a lot of times, although it has landed a few times where I came away impressed. One thing the first game does WAY BETTER than the second is presentation; the timing and delivery of lines as well as the placement of the camera in cutscenes is generally quite good. In X the camera is usually just floating randomly while characters spout platitudes at each other in between five second pauses. X has some baffling cutscenes issues. What stood out to me was when the music actually drowned out the characters. Without subtitles I wouldn't of been able to understand what they were saying.
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Jan 13, 2017 18:55
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Internet Kraken posted:I must have built Fiora wrong because she was pretty mediocre in my Xenoblade run. Best party member after Shulk was actually Rikki of all things. I wouldn't been able to beat the final boss without him since I was underleveled. Did you unlock her bonus skill trees? Those are basically required to get the full impact out of her.
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Jan 13, 2017 19:18
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Internet Kraken posted:Best party member after Shulk was actually Rikki of all things.
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Jan 13, 2017 19:24
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Terper posted:That's not weird, he is the best party member in the game. Yeah, Riki is legitimately broken as poo poo. He has insane damage, easily among the highest in the game if you spec properly, has an actual heal and an incredibly strong skillset. You can trivialize most of the game if you built properly and use chain attacks.
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Jan 13, 2017 19:25
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Heropon very cool!
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Jan 13, 2017 19:26
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Riki has a full suite of incredibly potent DoT techniques, several location-based physical attack skills, HP and DEF stats that make Reyn kick rocks while muttering under his breath, a full-party heal, and a random full-party buff that includes literal "go forth and take no damage" invincibility among its slots. His only significantly disadvantage is that he's terrible at generating aggro. He doesn't stand out much, you see. But that's only because... riki sneaky
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Jan 13, 2017 19:34
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Riki was awesome. Tatsu was loving idiot garbage for dumb bads i hope tatsu dies in this game
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Jan 13, 2017 19:39
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thanks alot assbag posted:Riki was awesome. Tatsu was loving idiot garbage for dumb bads They're both equally stupid and annoying but at least Riki was useful stupid and annoying.
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Jan 13, 2017 19:56
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Part of what made XB great was that every character had a niche and set of abilities that made them useful even in the endgame except Sharla. Riki was a lot of fun to play with and was great for taking on enemies above your level because his DoT moves never missed. My favorite party composition for the superbosses was Shulk, Reyn, and Fiora, because they were really good at keeping bosses perma-toppled. But really you could use any characters you wanted to take on the toughest fights except Sharla.
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Jan 13, 2017 20:03
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I beat the big mechon superboss on the beach with Sharla in my party
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Jan 13, 2017 20:03
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You can use Sharla it's just that your party will literally be more effective and do more damage without her.
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Jan 13, 2017 20:05
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Was there ever a list of good Xenoblade quests? I mean the ones with substantial rewards or even just really silly plots, like the Nopon  story.
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Jan 13, 2017 20:06
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Taear posted:They're both equally stupid and annoying but at least Riki was useful stupid and annoying. Playing XC after XCX, Tatsu makes so much more sense. They were trying to recapture Riki but just failed utterly. Tatsu still sucks but it was even more incomprehensible before I knew what a nopon was or why the sci-fi fantasy epic sticks you with an obnoxious furry potato. Another part of the problem is that the other characters are equally terrible. In XC one reason Riki works because he has characters like Dunban to play off of.
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Jan 13, 2017 20:15
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Sharla saved my life, and healed my soul
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Jan 13, 2017 20:15
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Tender Bender posted:Playing XC after XCX, Tatsu makes so much more sense. They were trying to recapture Riki but just failed utterly. Tatsu still sucks but it was even more incomprehensible before I knew what a nopon was or why the sci-fi fantasy epic sticks you with an obnoxious furry potato. Yea, XCX has a large cast but only four of them actually do anything. Six if you're being especially generous.
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Jan 13, 2017 21:09
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https://twitter.com/NintendoAmerica/status/819999478577057793 Nintendo is saying XC2 comes out this year, the absolute madmen https://twitter.com/NintendoAmerica/status/820006018142916608 Nintendo is deleting their Switch line-up picture over and over! https://twitter.com/NintendoAmerica/status/820006323328864256 MorningMoon fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Jan 13, 2017 |
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Jan 13, 2017 21:31
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ImpAtom posted:Yeah, Riki is legitimately broken as poo poo. I'd forgotten about Riki's DoTs being busted as poo poo when used in chains. Melia was supposedly OP as hell too but I never really saw it. I might've just been bad at using her though. Riki needs to be in Xenoblade 2. If not as a playable character then revered as a mythical hero by the Nopon. thanks alot assbag posted:Riki was awesome. Tatsu was loving idiot garbage for dumb bads One of XCX's issues was it had a feeling of "we're doing this thing because it worked in XC" and Tatsu was by far the biggest offender in that regard. Such a blatant attempt to be a comedy character like Riki but he fails at that while also being utterly worthless. Lin should've actually made him in to a meal and been done with it because he was a total writing failure. Goddamn, I didn't realize Disgaea 5 was coming to Switch too. That was one of the few games I've wanted to play but lack a PS4. Reasons to buy a PS4 are rapidly approaching zero. Xenoblade just being '2017' makes me worry it'll end up being maybe late 2017 for Japan and some time in 2018 for the rest of us if we're lucky.
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Jan 13, 2017 23:41
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Meanwhile, on Best Buy's website: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/xenoblade-chronicles-2-nintendo-switch/5721725.p?skuId=5721725
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Jan 14, 2017 04:07
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ImpAtom posted:Did you unlock her bonus skill trees? Those are basically required to get the full impact out of her. Oh no. I could never figured out how to get those bonus skill trees, aside from the ones I randomly stumbled on. Couldn't even get Shulk's because I didn't have enough affinity with Colony 9. I mean, I almost had enough affinity, but then the quest I complete made me lose affinity. At that point I said gently caress side quests and just went off to beat the game. Taear posted:They're both equally stupid and annoying but at least Riki was useful stupid and annoying. I don't think that's fair to Rikki. I mean yeah he's the obligatory cute mascot character but he doesn't have nearly as many annoying scenes as Tatsu. I'd say the problem with him is that he doesn't contribute much to the plot so he just feels like he's hanging around in a game where all the other characters are pretty involved. Tatsu does contribute to the plot in X. He does so by almost getting you killed multiple times. Tatsu is the worst.
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Jan 14, 2017 04:24
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Internet Kraken posted:Oh no. I could never figured out how to get those bonus skill trees, aside from the ones I randomly stumbled on. Couldn't even get Shulk's because I didn't have enough affinity with Colony 9. I mean, I almost had enough affinity, but then the quest I complete made me lose affinity. At that point I said gently caress side quests and just went off to beat the game. Ah, yeah, that's one of the problems with the game. Valuable stuff like that is super-hidden. It's not really important for most characters beyond optimization but Fiora needs hers to go from acceptable to Human Buzzsaw
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Jan 14, 2017 04:29
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To elaborate a bit, her fourth skill tree has a number of very nice skills, but the important one causes all of her double hits to automatically critical. I think you can imagine how that would get out of hand very quickly.
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Jan 14, 2017 04:57
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ImpAtom posted:Ah, yeah, that's one of the problems with the game. Valuable stuff like that is super-hidden. It's not really important for most characters beyond optimization but Fiora needs hers to go from acceptable to Human Buzzsaw Xenoblade has a lot of incongruous stuff like that where it's mostly easy then insanely tedious other places. See also the heart-to-heart system, where you come across tons of markers that are way out of your reach when you find them.
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Jan 14, 2017 05:03
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