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Craptacular! posted:Also, I want to hurt you people in favor of Vegas Raiders, because this place is a bunch of barely middle class people living like they're upper middle class and a bunch of poor people living like they're barely middle class, with a lot of families where nobody goes to college. Low taxes and slim public budgets are what makes all that happen and somehow a bunch of assholes decided that the public's assistance is best spent on professional sports that will largely be viewed by other people because almost nobody here is actually as wealthy as they appear. Nice meltdown
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Jan 15, 2017 01:23
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Craptacular! posted:Also, I want to hurt you people in favor of Vegas Raiders, because this place is a bunch of barely middle class people living like they're upper middle class and a bunch of poor people living like they're barely middle class, with a lot of families where nobody goes to college. Low taxes and slim public budgets are what makes all that happen and somehow a bunch of assholes decided that the public's assistance is best spent on professional sports that will largely be viewed by other people because almost nobody here is actually as wealthy as they appear. Nice copy paste of Americas national anthem
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Jan 15, 2017 01:43
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Craptacular! posted:Also, I want to hurt you people in favor of Vegas Raiders, because this place is a bunch of barely middle class people living like they're upper middle class and a bunch of poor people living like they're barely middle class, with a lot of families where nobody goes to college. Low taxes and slim public budgets are what makes all that happen and somehow a bunch of assholes decided that the public's assistance is best spent on professional sports that will largely be viewed by other people because almost nobody here is actually as wealthy as they appear. 
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Jan 15, 2017 03:00
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warcrimes posted:Nice meltdown We've got 100+ pages here of "gently caress owners", allow me mine.
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Jan 15, 2017 03:26
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Craptacular! posted:Also, I want to hurt you people in favor of Vegas Raiders, because this place is a bunch of barely middle class people living like they're upper middle class and a bunch of poor people living like they're barely middle class, with a lot of families where nobody goes to college. Low taxes and slim public budgets are what makes all that happen and somehow a bunch of assholes decided that the public's assistance is best spent on professional sports that will largely be viewed by other people because almost nobody here is actually as wealthy as they appear. Henderson has really good public schools from what I remember and a lot of casino taxes go to education. Isn't Clark county one of the highest paying counties for public school teachers (taking into account cost of living)?
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Jan 15, 2017 04:11
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Craptacular! posted:We've got 100+ pages here of "gently caress owners", allow me mine. Can't wait to see the Raiders play in a stadium built by rich tourists
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Jan 15, 2017 05:31
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Kawalimus posted:Man I can't imagine the Raiders moving to San Diego. That would be insane. That's like if the Orioles moved to New Jersey then the Toronto Blue Jays moved to Baltimore and all the names stayed the same. So in the AL East you'd have the Baltimore Blue Jays and the New Jersey Orioles. And what would the fans do??? Thanks for this enlightening simile
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Jan 15, 2017 05:36
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Craptacular! posted:Also, I want to hurt you people in favor of Vegas Raiders, because this place is a bunch of barely middle class people living like they're upper middle class and a bunch of poor people living like they're barely middle class, with a lot of families where nobody goes to college. Low taxes and slim public budgets are what makes all that happen and somehow a bunch of assholes decided that the public's assistance is best spent on professional sports that will largely be viewed by other people because almost nobody here is actually as wealthy as they appear. Is this supposed to make me want it less orrrrr
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Jan 15, 2017 06:45
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I get it but there's a reason Las Vegas doesn't have any professional sports teams. It's a city based mostly on transientism. People come and go but never actually live there long enough to "invest" into any kind of sports team. San Diego honestly had a lot of similiar problems. Yeah San Diego is a major city but there's a HUGE military and transplant population there that has roots in other places but there was at least enough of a population to back a professional sports team. Las Vegas doesn't have that luxury though. 90% of the tickets sold to any of these games would be casino comps or other things of that nature. It's funny though how it all comes down to performance because when the Chargers did well, fans came out of the woodwork.
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Jan 15, 2017 07:10
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i am kiss u now posted:I get it but there's a reason Las Vegas doesn't have any professional sports teams. It's a city based mostly on transientism. People come and go but never actually live there long enough to "invest" into any kind of sports team. San Diego honestly had a lot of similiar problems. Yeah San Diego is a major city but there's a HUGE military and transplant population there that has roots in other places but there was at least enough of a population to back a professional sports team. Las Vegas doesn't have that luxury though. 90% of the tickets sold to any of these games would be casino comps or other things of that nature. It's funny though how it all comes down to performance because when the Chargers did well, fans came out of the woodwork. This is pretty much every city not in the mid west or north east.
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Jan 15, 2017 07:12
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i am kiss u now posted:I get it but there's a reason Las Vegas doesn't have any professional sports teams. It's a city based mostly on transientism. People come and go but never actually live there long enough to "invest" into any kind of sports team. San Diego honestly had a lot of similiar problems. Yeah San Diego is a major city but there's a HUGE military and transplant population there that has roots in other places but there was at least enough of a population to back a professional sports team. Las Vegas doesn't have that luxury though. 90% of the tickets sold to any of these games would be casino comps or other things of that nature. It's funny though how it all comes down to performance because when the Chargers did well, fans came out of the woodwork. LV is going to draw heavily from LA, Southern Utah and LV itself. 90% is ridiculously hyperbolic. 5-10k coming from the Bay Area isn't other of the question either.
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Jan 15, 2017 07:38
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Yes, 90% was a pretty extreme exaggeration and I do think that since it's only a 4 hour drive, you'll get a large influx of fans from LA and socal and I'm sure all over norcal and other parts, too but I just don't see LV having enough of a population to support an NFL team on a more long term, consistent basis. Vegas seems to be kind of a weird area if you look at some NFL "fan maps" because it's at the center of like 49's fans, Raiders fans, Broncos fans and Cardinals fans. I honestly hope that everything proves me wrong and, I'm not insisting that any of my points are scientific in any way but, I just don't see the potential based on what I know about that area while being pretty familiar with it. What I do know about San Diego sports though after living there and having family there is that there is a very large percentage of "corporate" seats at both Qualcomm and Petco that are "given" away. I'm making a pretty big assumption here but in places like Green Bay or Fenway, I'm guessing you'd be very hard pressed to find as many of these kinds of seats as you do out west. Some of it I'm sure has to do with the quality of the teams. The culture here is just so different than east coast sports. West coast sports are more of a "perk" than a culture or lifestyle. I hate to say it but the majority of people here just don't have the "passion" that you'd find out east. I've lived on both coasts, I've been to games, I've experienced this first hand. I'm not saying that there aren't dedicated fans out west or that people aren't as as passionate. There are just fewer of them, if any of this makes sense and, it's a very evident atmosphere at these stadiums.
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Jan 15, 2017 08:05
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MrLogan posted:Henderson has really good public schools from what I remember and a lot of casino taxes go to education. Isn't Clark county one of the highest paying counties for public school teachers (taking into account cost of living)? CCSD schools are terrible. People at the state level are trying to form it by breaking apart the school district, which they managed to do without making a school district for rich neighborhoods. The conservatives want smaller more regional school districts and turning under-performing campuses into charter schools because of course they do. My understand from the last time teacher salary was studied was that they're paid well by the state's cost of living, but Clark less so because living in our suburban cesspool costs more than the boonies. the good fax machine posted:Is this supposed to make me want it less orrrrr Is this implying the lack of taxes makes your jealous or something? Because the point is that Las Vegas is an under-educated population with poor quality of life metrics and a lot of civic needs, and the problem isn't so much opposition to raising taxes, it's spending taxes on something this frivolous instead of addressing the obvious failings of the state. Our mental health system was one-way bus tickets to California. i am kiss u now posted:Yes, 90% was a pretty extreme exaggeration and I do think that since it's only a 4 hour drive, you'll get a large influx of fans from LA and socal and I'm sure all over norcal and other parts, too but I just don't see LV having enough of a population to support an NFL team on a more long term, consistent basis. Vegas seems to be kind of a weird area if you look at some NFL "fan maps" because it's at the center of like 49's fans, Raiders fans, Broncos fans and Cardinals fans. Something I edited out is we're a tiny media market. From a TV perspective, the NFL works in a way for us because all their games are on national broadcast TV. Nexstar just bought our CBS affiliate, and hiked rates on us a year ago just in time for SB50. The hockey team will probably end up being some sort of weird prime time program on The CW or something, because this tiny sports boom isn't going to be enough to spawn an appetite for a $4/mo RSN for such a small, isolated region. Even UNLV Basketball is/was for many years on a channel not carried here. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 09:20 on Jan 15, 2017 |
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Jan 15, 2017 09:11
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San Diego is a terrible example because Raider fans outnumbered charger fans 5:1 every game they played at Qualcomm. If this was the 2007 raiders, I'd agree with you, but this is a very different situation. You have a team with a young qb, and a great, explosive offense, with playmakers all over the field. And at least this year, they were one of the most exciting teams in the NFL. And all of that is set for the long term. So when the Raiders move to LV, they're simultaneously going to be one of the biggest draws in the NFL. Ultimately, these things always boil down to performance. The reason the Raiders have such a fan base on LA is because they had a great team and won a super bowl there, and the whole city was on board. That experience doesn't go away. The same is likely going to happen in Vegas for the Raiders. Yeah, they're going to be starting pretty much at ground zero, but I guarantee you if they're in an AFC championship game pushing for a super bowl, Vegas is going to be talking about it, and people will get invested in it. And in the process the Raiders are going to earn a lot of lifelong fans in Vegas. It'll work out fine.
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Jan 15, 2017 11:10
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i am kiss u now posted:Yes, 90% was a pretty extreme exaggeration and I do think that since it's only a 4 hour drive, you'll get a large influx of fans from LA and socal and I'm sure all over norcal and other parts, too but I just don't see LV having enough of a population to support an NFL team on a more long term, consistent basis. Vegas seems to be kind of a weird area if you look at some NFL "fan maps" because it's at the center of like 49's fans, Raiders fans, Broncos fans and Cardinals fans. I honestly hope that everything proves me wrong and, I'm not insisting that any of my points are scientific in any way but, I just don't see the potential based on what I know about that area while being pretty familiar with it. What I do know about San Diego sports though after living there and having family there is that there is a very large percentage of "corporate" seats at both Qualcomm and Petco that are "given" away. I'm making a pretty big assumption here but in places like Green Bay or Fenway, I'm guessing you'd be very hard pressed to find as many of these kinds of seats as you do out west. Some of it I'm sure has to do with the quality of the teams. The culture here is just so different than east coast sports. West coast sports are more of a "perk" than a culture or lifestyle. I hate to say it but the majority of people here just don't have the "passion" that you'd find out east. I've lived on both coasts, I've been to games, I've experienced this first hand. I'm not saying that there aren't dedicated fans out west or that people aren't as as passionate. There are just fewer of them, if any of this makes sense and, it's a very evident atmosphere at these stadiums. I've lived in Vegas for 12 years, working in the media, the Raiders will draw fine from multiple markets not in Vegas. Also, you assessment of west coast fans isn't too far off but with two exceptions. The Warriors and Raiders draw, win or lose. Rest of the fan bases are pretty fair weather.
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Jan 15, 2017 11:10
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i wouldn't drive four hours to see a football team every week. 90% of returning fans will only fill 20% of the stadium probably. and i don't think you're going to fill the other 80% on a regular basis unless you give tickets away.
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Jan 15, 2017 14:40
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quote:The Chargers' first public presentation in their new city didn't go over so well Saturday.
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Jan 15, 2017 16:04
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It will make me very happy to watch the chargers crash and burn in PR and on the field. Teams that move should be destined to at least a decade of failure.
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Jan 15, 2017 16:16
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Craptacular! posted:CCSD schools are terrible. People at the state level are trying to form it by breaking apart the school district, which they managed to do without making a school district for rich neighborhoods. The conservatives want smaller more regional school districts and turning under-performing campuses into charter schools because of course they do. if you hate vegas so much you should probably try to leave
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Jan 15, 2017 16:27
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TBeats posted:It will make me very happy to watch the chargers crash and burn in PR and on the field. The chargers are pathetic. San Diego told them to go gently caress themselves as publicly as possible and I can't wait for LA to do the same. I hope they don't last a decade. gently caress the chargers and gently caress Spanos.
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Jan 15, 2017 17:03
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warcrimes posted:I've lived in Vegas for 12 years, working in the media, the Raiders will draw fine from multiple markets not in Vegas. [...] The Warriors and Raiders draw, win or lose. Rest of the fan bases are pretty fair weather. Your twelve year absence from the home markets of these teams explains a great many things. Unless you are referring specifically to Las Vegas, no one cared about either team in the Bay Area or its extended markets until very recently. The Raiders might as well have vanished into the black hole after 2003.
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Jan 15, 2017 17:21
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Las Vegas is only a 45 minute plane flight for me. I'm okay with it.
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Jan 15, 2017 19:03
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King Hong Kong posted:Your twelve year absence from the home markets of these teams explains a great many things. Unless you are referring specifically to Las Vegas, no one cared about either team in the Bay Area or its extended markets until very recently. The Raiders might as well have vanished into the black hole after 2003. The Raiders drew a solid 40-50k+ during their worst years and the dubs sold out for almost 20 years, numbers dipping a bit toward the end of Cohan's ownership which is understandable seeing as how they were statistically the worst franchise in sports history during his tenure. They sold out night after night when the team was still poo poo. warcrimes fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Jan 15, 2017 |
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Jan 15, 2017 19:28
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warcrimes posted:The Raiders drew a solid 40-50k+ during their worst years and the dubs sold out for almost 20 years, numbers dipping a bit toward the end of Cohan's ownership which is understandable seeing as how they were statistically the worst franchise in sports history during his tenure. They sold out night after night when the team was still poo poo. Drawing a solid "40k-50k" for an NFL franchise is really awful. The Chargers did that an they didn't have to tarp off the upper deck with a giant lightning bolt. Raiders fans are insanely loyal but let's not pretend that they packing O.co to capacity every week
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Jan 15, 2017 19:32
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I love this, chargers move like 40 miles north and everyone savages them, raiders are moving out of state 500+ miles away and it's nbd. Pick a loving stance morons
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Jan 15, 2017 19:34
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Ammanas posted:I love this, chargers move like 40 miles north and everyone savages them, raiders are moving out of state 500+ miles away and it's nbd. Pick a loving stance morons It's as if the moves have different dynamics. And lol 40 miles
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Jan 15, 2017 19:35
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Ammanas posted:I love this, chargers move like 40 miles north and everyone savages them, raiders are moving out of state 500+ miles away and it's nbd. Pick a loving stance morons
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Jan 15, 2017 19:40
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Actually both are sniveling shits with boundless wealth unearned. I can see why goons would identify with Davis' autistic-like simpleton persona tho
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Jan 15, 2017 19:41
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The Raiders drew by far the worst local television audience in the NFL for at least five years and there is a reason there is a tarp on Mt. Davis (and they realistically needed to tarp even more). The irony is that this reality helps your claim that the Raiders should move.
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Jan 15, 2017 19:49
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Ammanas posted:Actually both are sniveling shits with boundless wealth unearned. I can see why goons would identify with Davis' autistic-like simpleton persona tho I can give you an itemized list of the differences between the two moves and why one is supported and one isn't if you really want it, but I'm not going to bother if you're just trolling
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Jan 15, 2017 19:53
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King Hong Kong posted:The Raiders drew by far the worst local television audience in the NFL for at least five years and there is a reason there is a tarp on Mt. Davis (and they realistically needed to tarp even more). That's because the team has been historically awful the last five years while the other norcal team was great. The chargers had a better claim to move; their fanbase is embarrassingly fairweather and ticket sales were going to opponents fans. The LA and SD markets are essentially identical especially for broadcasting. Socal hasn't lost a team, it's just lost some convenience. You really want to claim driving from SD to LA is equivalent to driving from norcal to Las Vegas?? The raiders have a hardcore fanbase that has shown up despite the team being a shithouse for more than a decade. Both play in dilapidated stadiums in cities that rightly refuse to buy ultra-rich owners a new one. Meanwhile a massive chunk of public money will be thrown at the raiders, which is unequivocally bad while the chargers are in privately funded LA. Both situations stink but letting Davis have a pass for being a shitlord because he's goony like you're goony is embrassing. Oakland has supported the raiders for decades, if Davis wants to make a billion dollars on PSLs and luxury boxes, he should finance a loving stadium himself Ammanas fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Jan 15, 2017 |
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Jan 15, 2017 20:05
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That's exactly my point. Raiders fans are just as "fair weather" as any other group of fans even in their local market. They aren't somehow more solid and likely to watch the team relative to fans of other teams just because the Raiders fan declares them to be so.
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Jan 15, 2017 20:10
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Ammanas posted:I love this, chargers move like 40 miles north and everyone savages them, raiders are moving out of state 500+ miles away and it's nbd. Pick a loving stance morons 40 miles Have you ever even been to the West Coast
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Jan 15, 2017 20:13
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I think they should tear down the center field seats and bring the views back to the Oakland Coliseum.
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Jan 15, 2017 20:14
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the islanders moved some 26 miles west and it's a whole different world
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Jan 15, 2017 20:24
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shirts and skins posted:40 miles since he phrased distance in miles and not minutes I'm going to say no
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Jan 15, 2017 20:54
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Well tbh it is pretty inconsistent to rail against the Chargers for moving but not really give the Raiders the same treatment, but I guess his mileage faux pas is more relevant than the point he was making.
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Jan 15, 2017 20:58
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The Raiders move is based in desperation, the Chargers move is based in greed.
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Jan 15, 2017 21:06
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TBeats posted:Well tbh it is pretty inconsistent to rail against the Chargers for moving but not really give the Raiders the same treatment, but I guess his mileage faux pas is more relevant than the point he was making. One team's stadium had regular back ups of poo poo occurring and their city openly didn't care because it wasn't the team they liked complaining about the issue The other team just had a rich owner who got told no to a solo LA move and threw a fit over it
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Jan 15, 2017 21:11
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Then why didn't you say that instead of focusing on the ultimately irrelevant part where he said 40 miles lol
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Jan 15, 2017 21:24
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