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Ammanas posted:I love this, chargers move like 40 miles north and everyone savages them, raiders are moving out of state 500+ miles away and it's nbd. Pick a loving stance morons What if the Bills move 40 miles north? No big deal right?
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Jan 15, 2017 21:46
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TBeats posted:Then why didn't you say that instead of focusing on the ultimately irrelevant part where he said 40 miles lol I'm shitposting, idgaf about discussing the politics of sports in this thread
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Jan 15, 2017 21:49
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Darth Brooks posted:The Raiders move is based in desperation, the Chargers move is based in greed.  if you honestly think the Raiders move isn't also based in greed.
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Jan 15, 2017 22:09
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Bring on the San Diego Browns.
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Jan 15, 2017 22:11
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Ammanas posted:I love this, chargers move like 40 miles north and everyone savages them, raiders are moving out of state 500+ miles away and it's nbd. Pick a loving stance morons if you live north of Camp Pendelton youre loving scum
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Jan 15, 2017 22:19
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Chinatown posted:if you live north of Camp Pendelton youre loving scum San Clemente is chill
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Jan 15, 2017 22:25
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Lote posted:What if the Bills move 40 miles north? No big deal right?  Major improvement IMO
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Jan 15, 2017 22:26
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a neat cape posted:San Clemente is chill you are still a chargers fan
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Jan 15, 2017 22:33
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Ammanas posted:Both situations stink but letting Davis have a pass for being a shitlord because he's goony like you're goony is embrassing. Oakland has supported the raiders for decades, if Davis wants to make a billion dollars on PSLs and luxury boxes, he should finance a loving stadium himself He'd have to sell the team to have enough money to pay for a stadium.
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Jan 15, 2017 22:36
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Mark Davis is the NFL equivalent of house poor
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Jan 15, 2017 22:38
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FCKGW posted:since he phrased distance in miles and not minutes I'm going to say no The time it takes to get from SD to Inglewood is about the same as it takes tons of raiders fans to get from norcal to Oakland. It's not a meaningful comparison to norcal to Vegas.
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Jan 15, 2017 22:49
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Volkerball posted:He'd have to sell the team to have enough money to pay for a stadium. Yet they can afford a half-billion relocation fee?? Davis is in the same boat as Spanos. It's not about need, it's pure greed
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Jan 15, 2017 22:51
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Ammanas posted:Yet they can afford a half-billion relocation fee?? Davis is in the same boat as Spanos. It's not about need, it's pure greed We don't know what the fee will be yet, but there's a reason Davis is relying on Goldman Sachs and Sheldon Adelson for financing. If they weren't involved, Vegas would be off the table for the Raiders, much like Oakland is.
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Jan 15, 2017 22:53
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Ammanas posted:Yet they can afford a half-billion relocation fee?? Davis is in the same boat as Spanos. It's not about need, it's pure greed It's not $500 million for the Raiders and you don't pay it all at once and $500 million is not going to build jack poo poo in the Bay Area
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Jan 15, 2017 22:54
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warcrimes posted:you don't pay it all at once unless you're kroenke rich of course
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Jan 15, 2017 22:55
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warcrimes posted:It's not $500 million for the Raiders and you don't pay it all at once and $500 million is not going to build jack poo poo in the Bay Area And even if it was $500 mil for the Raiders Mark Davis would be gone because that's how much he is worth
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Jan 15, 2017 22:59
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a neat cape posted:San Clemente is chill 
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Jan 15, 2017 23:14
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TFF Raiders fans are the equivalent of that guy who went to a public hearing in Palo Alto and complained that billionaires were running rough-shod over mere millionaires, except replacing billionaires with the City of Oakland.
King Hong Kong fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Jan 15, 2017 |
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Jan 15, 2017 23:17
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Yeah basically there's a bunch of differences: Oakland isn't interested in public financing of an arena, period (which is good). But Mark Davis, despite being solidly a 1%er, is not so wealthy that he can personally pay for a stadium. San Diego offered to let Spanos build a new stadium at the same site as the old one, but he is a big crybaby and refused that offer. He wants his perfect stadium downtown San Diego, built with public financing, or he's leaving. And Spanos is so wealthy he could pay for his own stadium. Especially with the help of private financing, which he could obtain without giving up ownership/control. Mark Davis has been negotiating in good faith with Oakland for many years. It's clear the major obstacle is a lack of funding. Spanos has been negotiating in bad faith with San Diego for years. It's clear the major obstacle is that he is totally inflexible in what he wants. The Raiders found a city that wants them and found financing to pay for a stadium. The Chargers are moving to a city that shows zero signs of wanting them, and would rather walk away from legit options in San Diego in order to play second-fiddle in LA. Davis does not bad-mouth Oakland or act like they're being the bad guys so he just haaas to leave. Spanos shits all over San Diego. Nobody is crying into their cheerios for Mark Davis, he's still a multi-millionaire rich bastard. But he at least seems to have some sense of humility, cares about fans, and wants the Raiders to go someplace that wants them.
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Jan 15, 2017 23:30
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Lessail posted:if you hate vegas so much you should probably try to leave I could go back to the bay area at any time, but I like it here. If I didn't like it, I'd be more down with paying $750,000,000 on pro sports so a wealthy businessman and possibly Goldman Sachs(??!) don't have to. If I didn't plan on living here next year I wouldn't give a poo poo. We have a lot of other things we need to invest in before sports in southern Nevada, but unlike San Diego we didn't actually get a ballot to express that. At least San Diego can say that the citizens spoke, and the onus was on Spanos to deal with it. Here, it was juiced through with minimal citizens involvement. The whole thing is sold on the assumption that huge numbers of road fans will go to Vegas to see games, which is only useful if they didn't come to Vegas before, and all indicators are that they did. And games are played on weekends which is already the busiest period in Vegas. If you don't get what I mean, let's use the Super Bowl as a reference: In most cities, having the Super Bowl at your stadium is a tourism boon. In Vegas, even a Super Bowl in Buffalo is a tourism boon. We sell every room available here with people gambling on the game even if it's in another time zone. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Jan 15, 2017 |
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Jan 15, 2017 23:31
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Oh yeah also tons of people in here still not quite getting that filling seats in the stands isn't nearly as important as getting eyeballs on TVs. To the NFL owners, who are the ones in charge, anyway. When the stands are half-empty, that's taken as reflective of the unpopularity of the team, which is itself a concern for the owners. Sales of PSLs also matter as far as getting an arena to pay for itself. But actual game day ticket sales revenue? Much less important.
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Jan 15, 2017 23:34
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Leperflesh posted:Oh yeah also tons of people in here still not quite getting that filling seats in the stands isn't nearly as important as getting eyeballs on TVs. To the NFL owners, who are the ones in charge, anyway. you'd have to think the hotel/casino chains would be buying up PSLs for premium seats/boxes/whatnot to use as perks for high rollers?
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Jan 15, 2017 23:36
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Leperflesh posted:Oh yeah also tons of people in here still not quite getting that filling seats in the stands isn't nearly as important as getting eyeballs on TVs. To the NFL owners, who are the ones in charge, anyway. I'm not focusing on what's good for the NFL. Filling seats (and thus filling hotel rooms) is the only incentive the general public had for spending money on this venture. This whole thing started off as "let's build a new football stadium for UNLV," and from there it's like a guy who started off shopping for a Chrysler and wound up at the Rolls Royce dealership. But hey, we get to say we own a Rolls Royce, if we let some other guy drive it six days of the week, and pay for the gas and maintenance. We could have cloned the AlamoDome for UNLV and spent a lot less, every dollar between there and $750mil is this region's fragile ego and desperate need for attention. It's not super beneficial and the Raiders would be far more loved in LA. EDIT: To clarify, because this is a TFF thread: Unlike most people here, I don't actually like football. I'm posting here because it's the thread about football relocations, which is a major issue of political importance where I live. I don't massively hate football either, but please stop saying things that "the Raiders found a city that wants them." The Raiders found a politically-connected billionaire in a state with a serious problem for juice and corruption. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Jan 15, 2017 |
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Jan 15, 2017 23:42
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Craptacular! posted:I could go back to the bay area at any time, but I like it here. If I didn't like it, I'd be more down with paying $750,000,000 on pro sports so a wealthy businessman and possibly Goldman Sachs(??!) don't have to. If I didn't plan on living here next year I wouldn't give a poo poo. We have a lot of other things we need to invest in before sports in southern Nevada, but unlike San Diego we didn't actually get a ballot to express that. I'm not ok with using public money for the stadium but I'm not going around calling the place I claim to like a cesspool
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Jan 15, 2017 23:46
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Lessail posted:I'm not ok with using public money for the stadium but I'm not going around calling the place I claim to like a cesspool Saying the education ranks low and that the state has no mental health system because of difficulties in financing isn't calling it a cesspool. People have been demanding more money for these things for years. Mentally ill people crowd emergency room beds because there's no funding for facilities for them here, and the state was shoving them onto buses to California until California sued. Taking a "love it or leave it" approach is myopic.
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Jan 15, 2017 23:49
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JPrime posted:you'd have to think the hotel/casino chains would be buying up PSLs for premium seats/boxes/whatnot to use as perks for high rollers? Absolutely. The luxury boxes will be sold out in short order
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Jan 15, 2017 23:52
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E: wrong thread
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Jan 15, 2017 23:58
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Craptacular! posted:And games are played on weekends which is already the busiest period in Vegas. Let me tell you about the wonder (ously terrible) spectacle that is Thursday Night Football - Thursday Night Edition.
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Jan 16, 2017 02:51
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Nail Rat posted:Let me tell you about the wonder (ously terrible) spectacle that is Thursday Night Football - Thursday Night Edition. Hey at least it's close. It's by far the second closest playoff game.
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Jan 16, 2017 05:08
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Coldforge posted:
Greed? Naw, Mark just wants to move into the  E: shows you how often I go to vegas Proust Malone fucked around with this message at 06:54 on Jan 16, 2017 |
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Jan 16, 2017 05:18
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That's not the Hard Rock, it's Planet Hollywood.
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Jan 16, 2017 05:28
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Ron Jeremy posted:Greed? Naw, Mark just wants to move into the There's a Hard Rock just east of that map, not even a mile off-Strip. Just to cover all your bases.
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Jan 16, 2017 07:07
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Is P.F. Chang's actually that great? Can't say I've ever been there.
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Jan 16, 2017 07:23
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Kirios posted:Is P.F. Chang's actually that great? Can't say I've ever been there. It's just another mid-level sitdown chain restaurant. Its the Cheesecake Factory with a different menu.
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Jan 16, 2017 07:32
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it's like the cheesecake factory for asian food
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Jan 16, 2017 07:34
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Kirios posted:Is P.F. Chang's actually that great? No. It's probably like Cheesecake Factory of Chinese food. Overpriced mediocre food, but good for last minute large groups because of the large menu and gigantic restaurants. Edit: goddamn on the Cheesecake Factory thing
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Jan 16, 2017 07:34
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Two or three of the items on the menu taste quite good. That's not enough to make it worth the price, though, considering two or three items on practically any menu of any restaurant anywhere probably taste pretty good, and good cheap chinese food is pretty widespread. Going to a pf changs for chinese food is excusable if your only other chinese food choices are horrible, but in any sizeable city there's gonna be better choices, and in places like Oakland and Vegas, there's tons of much better choices.
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Jan 16, 2017 07:52
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Leperflesh posted:Two or three of the items on the menu taste quite good. That's not enough to make it worth the price, though, considering two or three items on practically any menu of any restaurant anywhere probably taste pretty good, and good cheap chinese food is pretty widespread. PF Chang's is oddly popular here given that we have legit China- and Koreatowns. I've never been there.
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Jan 16, 2017 08:27
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warcrimes posted:PF Chang's is oddly popular here given that we have legit China- and Koreatowns. I've never been there. We have been inundated with lovely transplants afraid of anything that isn't a major chain.
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Jan 16, 2017 08:33
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P.F. Chang's is also tied to the quietly possibly failing Pei Wei restaurant chain which is like the Applebees of Chinese food.
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Jan 16, 2017 08:40
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