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So are there any new trinkets that can rival cancer for best in the game? Cancer is so good. Don't even need any other tear up items if you find it.
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Jan 16, 2017 15:47
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| # ? May 31, 2024 19:23 |
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comingafteryouall posted:So are there any new trinkets that can rival cancer for best in the game? RatHat posted:I think you need to actually get the credits screen to count for win streaks. So Isaac/Satan without the right trinket is the earliest.
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Jan 16, 2017 15:54
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comingafteryouall posted:So are there any new trinkets that can rival cancer for best in the game? Curved Horn is sometimes better. Other trinkets are situationally better, like you don't need Cancer with Mom's Knife or Brimstone but you really don't need anything else with those two anyway. Cancer is great because there's nothing in the game quite as satisfying as a tear delay of 1.
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Jan 16, 2017 16:07
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So. Has anyone else noticed a bug with Mini Mush where it decreases your range instead of increasing? Just had an Azazel run, and was pretty annoyed.
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Jan 16, 2017 16:49
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BJPaskoff posted:Curved Horn is sometimes better. Other trinkets are situationally better, like you don't need Cancer with Mom's Knife or Brimstone but you really don't need anything else with those two anyway. Cancer is great because there's nothing in the game quite as satisfying as a tear delay of 1. I can't remember since it's been a while since I've had Mom's Knife or Brimstone with cancer, but does it still work on shortening their charges? That's not nearly as good as when you have tears, but still useful.
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Jan 16, 2017 16:54
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Steelpudding posted:So. Has anyone else noticed a bug with Mini Mush where it decreases your range instead of increasing? It lowers range but adds tear height, which is detrimental to Azazel.
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Jan 16, 2017 16:59
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that ivy guy posted:It lowers range but adds tear height, which is detrimental to Azazel. Wow, that's dumb.
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Jan 16, 2017 17:03
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I just watched NL's latest run where he got the glowing hourglass, which after a few uses (turns out it was 5) turned into normal hourglass, just when it was becoming fun and was looking like it could be an item worth considering to have as an active... Wiki says this is a change in Afterbirth+ . I guess the fastest route to "fixing" a potential overpowered/breaking item is turning it into garbage and be done with it.
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Jan 16, 2017 17:08
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comingafteryouall posted:So are there any new trinkets that can rival cancer for best in the game? In a void, not really, but the lightbulbs are pretty amazing with infinite use or single use items. Particularly Dim Bulb. Though both Cancer and the Vibrant Bulb together are probably better with Mom's Box. The Dim Bulb's actually got triple Vibrant Bulb's attack and shot speed, but I feel like also having double Cancer beats out the difference.
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Jan 16, 2017 17:23
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comingafteryouall posted:So are there any new trinkets that can rival cancer for best in the game? Fragmented Card, which causes two secret rooms to spawn (so long as you entered the floor holding it) is pretty great.
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Jan 16, 2017 18:09
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AbstractNapper posted:I just watched NL's latest run where he got the glowing hourglass, which after a few uses (turns out it was 5) turned into normal hourglass, just when it was becoming fun and was looking like it could be an item worth considering to have as an active... How was glowing hourglass even overpowered, anyway? The only use I knew of besides resetting rooms that were going really badly was easy donation machine fills. I'm honestly considering learning to mod so I can make one that undos all the stupid nerfs they keep doing.
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Jan 16, 2017 18:36
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Wrist Watch posted:How was glowing hourglass even overpowered, anyway? The only use I knew of besides resetting rooms that were going really badly was easy donation machine fills. The wiki seems to suggest that it was because of the donation machines... It's a rubbish excuse, maybe because donation machines are the least of my worries (I guess the devs didn't want people to get all the donation-tier unlockables at once? because oh noes, after you've done that why even play the game) But five uses and then you are out? How is that fair and not a rushed fix that trashes the item? What if the player had waited for the last moment to use the time-reset, when he was at his last half heart and couldn't dodge a boss attack, only to find out that, nope, they are still at the same spot and they can watch their death in slower motion. AbstractNapper fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Jan 16, 2017 |
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Jan 16, 2017 18:57
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AbstractNapper posted:The wiki seems to suggest that it was because of the donation machines... Then I have to question their ability to see, since the hourglass visibly changes to the normal hourglass when it switches.
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Jan 16, 2017 18:59
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AbstractNapper posted:The wiki seems to suggest that it was because of the donation machines... If you were doing any kind of streaking it was a good way to keep the donation machine topped up
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Jan 16, 2017 19:07
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There were various ways of abusing it but they were all very boring so I'm fine with the change.
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Jan 16, 2017 19:17
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Irony Be My Shield posted:There were various ways of abusing it but they were all very boring so I'm fine with the change. It's a silly, pointless change. I'm sure the two people who were abusing it are steaming mad but the rest of us are scratching our heads trying to figure out why they'd bother making a mediocre item worse. If you want to break this game, the punishment is automatically levied in terms of the time you're spending breaking a fairly easy game. Yet it seems like the developers have this obsession with only altering the balance when someone discovers an incredibly niche, tedious manner of breaking it.
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Jan 16, 2017 19:25
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They could change it again so if used 5 times in a single room it breaks. That's probably more fair, but even then would prevent stuff like redos against Hush.
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Jan 16, 2017 19:31
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Prop Wash posted:Yet it seems like the developers have this obsession with only altering the balance when someone discovers an incredibly niche, tedious manner of breaking it.
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Jan 16, 2017 19:33
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Supremezero posted:Then I have to question their ability to see, since the hourglass visibly changes to the normal hourglass when it switches. That is true, of course. It changes to the normal hourglass icon. I doubt if anyone would notice it --especially since you don't anticipate something like that and the glowing hourglass is not a new item in AB+ -- but I can't rule it out of course. While watching the video, I didn't get why it didn't work, even after it didn't, until NL pointed out that it changed to plain ol' hourglass. In the meantime I just thought that it was a bug, or that the item wouldn't work under some conditions (eg if you didn't change stats, lose/gain health or didn't pick up an item then it would deem it pointless to rewind).
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Jan 16, 2017 19:36
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This "Get to The Lamb without picking up hearts, bombs, or coins" achievement is absolute bullshit, ESPECIALLY when items get dropped right in front of a doorway and you can't avoid picking them up. Or you get one of those single-tile-wide bridge rooms and an item spawns right in the middle of it. I was able to make it to Satan once, but that's it. I just can't get a consistently strong loadout without my precious pickups. 
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Jan 16, 2017 19:45
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Victory laps are enjoyable. I like seeing how picking up multiple of the same items causes the game to break. I learned that Lilith with fruit cake and the parasite is just a super fun combo. I also feel like mom's knife got a lot more synergies. How do victory runs work (I've completed 3 laps). Do you just keep going as the lost or does it end there? Or does it just end at certain bosses? My runs ended at the Hush and again at Blue baby.
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Jan 16, 2017 19:48
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Being able to undo anything that goes wrong in a run is extremely powerful. Even with a 5 use limit, Glowing Hourglass is still really good.quote:How do victory runs work (I've completed 3 laps). Do you just keep going as the lost or does it end there? Or does it just end at certain bosses? My runs ended at the Hush and again at Blue baby.
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Jan 16, 2017 20:09
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Jamesman posted:This "Get to The Lamb without picking up hearts, bombs, or coins" achievement is absolute bullshit, ESPECIALLY when items get dropped right in front of a doorway and you can't avoid picking them up. Or you get one of those single-tile-wide bridge rooms and an item spawns right in the middle of it. Use the G0NE S00N (iirc) seed to make pickups vanish after 7 seconds (doesn't disable achievements since it's a challenge seed).
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Jan 16, 2017 20:17
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Prop Wash posted:Yet it seems like the developers have this obsession with only altering the balance when someone discovers an incredibly niche, tedious manner of breaking it. It's not exactly the worse consideration - there's a term for that I've forgotten, but basically it's a thing in games for players to take unfun routes because they produce the best results. (Eg: Destiny's loot cave) By removing that sort of thing you save players from having to feel like they're taking a risk or missing out by not doing tedious-but-safe strategies. That said, DACK FAYDEN posted:And yet slot machines and shell game beggars are still in the game.
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Jan 16, 2017 20:32
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comingafteryouall posted:So are there any new trinkets that can rival cancer for best in the game? new trinket candidates for "situationally better than cancer" include: dim bulb, locust of conquest, locust of wrath BJPaskoff posted:Curved Horn is sometimes better. Other trinkets are situationally better, like you don't need Cancer with Mom's Knife or Brimstone but you really don't need anything else with those two anyway. Cancer is great because there's nothing in the game quite as satisfying as a tear delay of 1. wanting to know under what conditions curved horn is better than cancer was the impetus for me to make this DPS calculator page: http://hyphen-ated.github.io/rebirthDps/ it's missing plenty of new items but the fundamental relationships between damage, tears, and delay are still the same Hyphen-ated fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Jan 16, 2017 |
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Jan 16, 2017 20:40
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Just started playing this game pretty fun so far. Kinda reminds me of Spelunky. Also what is that item that gives you 9x lives I picked it up but I forgot the name.
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Jan 16, 2017 20:51
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Dead cat. Speaking of I picked up 2 dead cats and a collar and got x17 extra lives during my victory laps. That was cool.
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Jan 16, 2017 20:55
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the popular kids posted:Dead cat. This happened to me in one of my first Lost runs back in Rebirth. Died to satan 18 times
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Jan 16, 2017 20:59
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that ivy guy posted:This happened to me in one of my first Lost runs back in Rebirth. Died to satan 18 times I can't finish backasswards because I am bad at game. Whether I kill or skip megasatan I almost always die to Satan..... Sad.
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Jan 16, 2017 21:06
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the popular kids posted:I can't finish backasswards because I am bad at game. Whether I kill or skip megasatan I almost always die to Satan..... Don't forget that his foot doesn't damage you once it's on the ground in the final phase. Have to dodge the stomp but then you can ram into it and fire for dear life.
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Jan 16, 2017 21:08
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I feel like so many of these opinions are made by people who would be considered top-tier at that level of mastery at any other game. "Dead Cat is a great item, get it every time" Sure, it's great if you literally never get hit, but having one hit for all the hardest bosses in the game is generally a death sentence for me, and I've gotten a majority of post-it marks on Hard Mode with all the characters. And if you're never dying with Dead Cat, then why is it so great in the first place? Ideas that come to mind are: -So you can take like every devil deal But you're likely still left with a character with a single heart container, and probably a spare sin heart or two. Even with mighty strength, devil items usually don't keep you from getting hit. -If you have an easy method of generating soul hearts You're probably going to win anyways, and the chance of having the rare easy-soul-hearts setup AND finding Dead Cat is pretty niche... and it probably would still leave you in a bad position for fighting a boss after dying, unless your item combo is so sweet it doesn't even need you to go through several rooms. What's the deal, guys? Let me know what I am apparently missing.
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Jan 16, 2017 21:41
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John Lee posted:I feel like so many of these opinions are made by people who would be considered top-tier at that level of mastery at any other game. "Dead Cat is a great item, get it every time" Potential for Guppy. If I'm towards the end of a run I probably won't pick up dead cat. But if I'm in the first half, I'm definitely picking it up. Getting to take more devil deals and Guppy will usually end up with broken runs. I feel pretty comfortable taking it when I have a couple of soul hearts saved up and rarely die because I took it, but often end up with overpowered combos after I take it. And Satan is hard. Back in original Isaac, that fight got my heart pumping every time. I don't know if I was worse at the game, or if original Isaac was harder to break.
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Jan 16, 2017 21:48
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John Lee posted:I feel like so many of these opinions are made by people who would be considered top-tier at that level of mastery at any other game. "Dead Cat is a great item, get it every time" Dead Cat is part of the Guppy transformation, which is an astoundingly broken thing that wins you runs (especially if you're just going up to the Chest). If you're taking Devil Deals as they come, you're gonna be running on one, maybe two heart containers all the time anyway, all your other health is gonna be soul/evil hearts anyway. By itself it's a pretty niche item, but the fact it gives you Guppy makes it REAL strong. Plus, if you somehow gently caress up and die, you can recover a run by picking some lucky soul hearts.
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Jan 16, 2017 21:49
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Yeah, Dead Cat was a fairly pointless item in the original game, where it really wasn't all that helpful unless you didn't have that many red hearts in the first place. And back then, Soul Hearts were not that easy to come by as they are now, so you were better off skipping it if it came way too late. It's still a fairly questionable item by itself unless you're playing as the Lost or Keeper, but the Guppy transformation is the real reason to take it. The fact that Soul Hearts are much easier to come by now makes the 1 red heart penalty sting a lot less. Yeah the extra lives benefit isn't that great, but it doesn't really hurt you either unless you're really late in a run, and have like 12 red hearts for some reason.
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Jan 16, 2017 21:56
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Huh. I have 150 hours of Rebirth logged, and I've only gotten Guppy twice. I'm sure "Well, that's 'cause you never take Dead Cat  " is part of it, but I rarely see cat pieces other than the Paw, and taking Dead Cat and not getting lucky afterwards is basically a failure; I'm not cool enough to beat Satan without getting hit, and ??? is risky.
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Jan 16, 2017 21:59
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I have literally never made a meat boy or bandage girl without cheating in 270 hours over the course of 2 years so you are not alone in probably feeling that the really rare combo things are way too rare.
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Jan 16, 2017 22:01
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I get Guppy pretty often, but I also go HARD for Devil deals.
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Jan 16, 2017 22:02
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Dr. Fetus posted:And back then, Soul Hearts were not that easy to come by as they are now Remember when they were uncapped? 
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Jan 16, 2017 22:10
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Hyphen-ated posted:wanting to know under what conditions curved horn is better than cancer was the impetus for me to make this DPS calculator page: http://hyphen-ated.github.io/rebirthDps/ Thanks for this dude, this is pretty cool! I smell an idea for a mod that adds to the HUD  Dias posted:I get Guppy pretty often, but I also go HARD for Devil deals. Same, Devil deals are almost always worth it, and most of my successful end with zero to few red heart containers and lots of blue/black hearts.
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Jan 16, 2017 22:12
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How to get Guppy items: - Check every curse room and ambush room for red chests. Open them all. - Get as many Devil Deals as possible. - Take the Left Hand trinket every time it appears, as it changes all chests into red chests, and even works on existing chests. - Open Golden Chests too, as they can contain Guppy's Head. If you just have base Rebirth, Guppy should be easier to come by, as the Red Chest pool contains very little besides Guppy items. Afterbirth polluted that pool with a good bit of trash.
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Jan 16, 2017 22:17
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