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Coydog posted:Reving before or during doesnt change it. It's completely random and like the bike just gets confused and stops. I'm completely stock, and have the proper inserts in my WING's exhaust. Trust me, it's not me stalling the bike, its the EFI stalling the bike. This isn't an uncommon issue. To be read in Mr. Brimley's fine voice.  http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/ktm-690-stalling-issue-solved.980885/#post-24247584 Related, have you looked at your throttle body to make sure it doesn't have junk on it? This was an issue for the x challenge I had and the Germans just didn't understand that we have ethanol in our fuel so you had to clean the throttle body from time to time or you'd get stalling. How about your fuel filter? Does it do it with the stock exhaust or just wings?
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Jan 12, 2017 23:10
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Meanwhile every Italian EFI bike I've ever owned has coped with temperature changes* absolutely fine. Are you sure KTM haven't accidentally installed the Jetronic system out of an old VW in there? *ZERO DEGREES IS A STATIC TEMPERATURE NOT A TEMPERATURE CHANGE OKAY?
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Jan 12, 2017 23:30
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Coydog, the bike is rebelling against the tool tube.
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Jan 13, 2017 00:19
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builds character posted:To be read in Mr. Brimley's fine voice. I didn't have the stock exhaust on in conditions that would trigger it, though I'll bet the wing's isn't helping (though it is perfectly fine with the dbkiller). I had no idea about the throttle body, that's good info. Look... inside it? That link is super helpful, thank you. A lot of work, but might just do the trick. I don't intend to let this bike go for quite some time, so I might as well put the work in. I wonder if this would work for the headless screws. https://www.amazon.com/Engineer-PZ-58-Screw-Pliers-GT/dp/B002L6HJAA In addition to ADVrider, I also read my own post in Brimley voice. It brought me no end of amusement, and proves even the worst posts can be improved by it. Jazzzzz posted:Coydog, the bike is rebelling against the tool tube. Keep talkin. I'm making a list of people my SPOT can call when I get stranded with a flat because I don't have any tools with me. Don't make me get a givi. Cause I'll do it and then you'll be sorry.
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Jan 13, 2017 02:57
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Fellas, I'm out here in AZ going to flight school and gently caress me sideways I wish I could have my god drat motorcycle here. Its perfect weather everyday right now (not in monsoon mode yet) and just gorgeous. Christ almighty the feels man. THE FEELS. I'm like an addict without the drugs. It sucks hard. I'm losing my mind.
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Jan 13, 2017 03:05
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Cheap scooter time.
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Jan 13, 2017 04:11
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Coydog posted:I love my 690 to death but it may be the death of me. The EFI is poo poo so god help you if you live in a climate that changes temps drastically week to week or day to day. Do the idle reset procedure when it's cold? Random stalls if you get warm weather. Idle reset when warm? You are hosed if a cold front comes in. Are you sure you didn't accidentally buy a Buell? The real Erik approved solution to this is to sell your stupid ddfi2 model and get a ddfi3 with the Ford mustang approved leaky idle air control. clutchpuck fucked around with this message at 04:35 on Jan 13, 2017 |
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Jan 13, 2017 04:25
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Endbuster posted:Fellas, I'm out here in AZ going to flight school and gently caress me sideways I wish I could have my god drat motorcycle here. Its perfect weather everyday right now (not in monsoon mode yet) and just gorgeous. Christ almighty the feels man. THE FEELS. It's been pretty great  but I haven't been really riding at all except commuting unfortunately.
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Jan 13, 2017 05:35
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Coydog posted:Reving before or during doesnt change it. It's completely random and like the bike just gets confused and stops. I'm completely stock, and have the proper inserts in my WING's exhaust. Trust me, it's not me stalling the bike, its the EFI stalling the bike. This isn't an uncommon issue. how can this be a thing? how can they sell a motorcycle with "engine randomly shuts down" as a known bug? why the gently caress do people buy it and tolerate it? you know how many times my 30 year old Hawk GT has randomly died while riding? Once, when the fuel pump crapped out and it slowly ran out of gas. Then I unplugged the pump, cleaned the contacts, and started it up again and it hasn't stalled since. Jesus Christ, Honda had this stuff figured out in the Reagan era. What the gently caress KTM
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Jan 13, 2017 08:29
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Coydog posted:Reving before or during doesnt change it. It's completely random and like the bike just gets confused and stops. I'm completely stock, and have the proper inserts in my WING's exhaust. Trust me, it's not me stalling the bike, its the EFI stalling the bike. This isn't an uncommon issue. Something else is going on here. Mine was ridden through all kinds of weather, heat, and cold, and never had an issue like what you describe. This sounds like you're either missing seat rubbers and sitting on the ECU connector, or the battery is failing/terminals are loose. Pull the seat off and check for wear marks on the ECU connector. The idle stalls were just that - stalls at idle. They didn't show up as "bike randomly stalls for no reason at all", and definitely didn't show up as "you're accelerating at 3k RPM and suddenly the bike just stops". I think I've done one, or maybe 2 idle resets in the 30k I owned my 2 690s, and that included riding down to nearly freezing temps and up to 100+ degrees. Z3n fucked around with this message at 09:17 on Jan 13, 2017 |
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Jan 13, 2017 09:15
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I'm not really knowledgeable on the pre-2012 690s but for the later ones, they only stall at idle when they've got a wrong map. People tend to put maps for bikes with aftermarket cams on bikes that don't have one of those.clutchpuck posted:The real Erik approved solution to this is to sell your stupid ddfi2 model and get a ddfi3 with the Ford mustang approved leaky idle air control. Yeah on my 07 with the race map (tried that for a while instead of the custom map it came with) I had to use ECMSpy to boost 4 cells around the idle region or it would almost stall when cold at idle.
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Jan 13, 2017 20:24
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Endbuster posted:Fellas, I'm out here in AZ going to flight school and gently caress me sideways I wish I could have my god drat motorcycle here. Its perfect weather everyday right now (not in monsoon mode yet) and just gorgeous. Christ almighty the feels man. THE FEELS. Rent one!
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Jan 13, 2017 21:34
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Sagebrush posted:how can this be a thing? Get this- It stalled today while at a light, clutched pulled, when I just went to increase the throttle. As soon as I started moving the throttle, it stalled. Engine warmed up, and I did the 15min idle reset just 5 hours beforehand. Been riding all afternoon. Z3n posted:Something else is going on here. Mine was ridden through all kinds of weather, heat, and cold, and never had an issue like what you describe. This sounds like you're either missing seat rubbers and sitting on the ECU connector, or the battery is failing/terminals are loose. Weird, I seem to remember reading lot's of people with my issue, specifically also mentioning getting stuck in front of traffic or intersections, as well. Nothing of it just stalling at idle. That said, you are the KTM/690 expert, and I'm really glad to have your input. That info is kind of a revelation. I tried to google which connector that was, and it looks like this one? Everything looks ok, just dusty, but I'm not sure what exactly I'm looking for. No pinched wires, or frayed connections. Is it this plug? 
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Jan 13, 2017 22:36
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Coydog posted:Get this- It stalled today while at a light, clutched pulled, when I just went to increase the throttle. As soon as I started moving the throttle, it stalled. Engine warmed up, and I did the 15min idle reset just 5 hours beforehand. Been riding all afternoon. Try moving/wiggling the wiring harness around and seeing if anything happens. It may be that you have a short and when you begin to accelerate that weight shift/push is what moves the relevant wires to connect/disconnect/whatever.
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Jan 14, 2017 01:46
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Coydog posted:Get this- It stalled today while at a light, clutched pulled, when I just went to increase the throttle. As soon as I started moving the throttle, it stalled. Engine warmed up, and I did the 15min idle reset just 5 hours beforehand. Been riding all afternoon. Nah the ECU connector will be a large connector that goes into the black computer box. In fact I bet it's the white connector to the upper left of your finger, or the black one to the lower left of that.
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Jan 14, 2017 13:16
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Apparently the large box is the 'electronic control unit' and the small one is the 'timing charger'. "One ECU controls the fuelling & ignition and the other controls the throttle valve through semi ride-by-wire. The ECUs interact with each other communicating over a CAN-BUS connection." haha
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Jan 14, 2017 13:24
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Coydog posted:Get this- It stalled today while at a light, clutched pulled, when I just went to increase the throttle. As soon as I started moving the throttle, it stalled. Engine warmed up, and I did the 15min idle reset just 5 hours beforehand. Been riding all afternoon. Try the TPS reset too, first. It's how it reads the throttle position so if it's not adding fuel as you roll on the gas that could be the issue. Also check you have slack in the throttle cable before the throttle starts to engage when you do this. What is the status of the O2 sensor on the bike? You should also wiggle the connectors as mentioned above and see if you can induce a stall, and on my bike and every other 690 I worked on both the connectors were black, so that white one looks like someone replaced something at some point. Can you disconnect it and take a picture of both sides of the connector? You're looking for any discoloration, damaged/retracted/bent pins, or places where it looks like things aren't secured down. Also check the battery terminals for tightness, and make sure you have all 6 rubbers standoffs on the bottom of the seat. If everything is in good shape mechanically after you've checked the above, 90% sure here your problem is you're running an aftermarket exhaust, without a proper map tuned for it. The bike is tuned pretty lean from the factory, and the OEM can has a massive cat embedded in it that greatly increases back pressure. You're going to need to fix this with TuneECU and some dyno time (although the bike will run amazingly when you're done).
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Jan 14, 2017 17:21
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Quick fix might be to add some fuel to the idle region like high protein mentioned. I had to do it on my 06 xb. Eventually I data log tuned with the narrow band but I left the fat idle because it helped engine braking.
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Jan 14, 2017 18:03
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My 690 was like that. Stalling at a very specific throttle input, right at the transition between idle and low throttle. I increased the fuel at specific points in the map, all over the map, under the map, between the map, nothing helped. Then I put the db-killer into the Akra and never had a problem since?? 
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Jan 14, 2017 20:55
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Z3n- Thanks for being so specific. I did the TPS this afternoon, and had no stalls on a run for errands. Since the problem is so random, it's hard to say if this actually helped. I've done the TPS many times before. - All 6 seat bumpers are there -I couldn't induce a stall by wiggling or bumping the connectors. -Connections look spotless and perfect:   -All 02 sensors are present and hooked up -Battery terminals are super secure -I have the large DB insert in the Wings, but experienced the same stall when the restrictive insert was installed, too. Wing's has very clearly communicated that "WINGS muffler is designed in the way that with dB-killer mounted there is no need to remap". I didn't have the stock exhaust on long enough to experience any stalls because it melted melted everything. If I'm being completely honest with myself, I think the issue cropped up in the week after I installed the Wings. At the time I had the 02 blockoff installed, and assumed the stall was from that and stocked out the plugs. I have a tune ECU plug, but I'm not ready to to do a bunch of tuning yet. I guess let's see how long it takes the bike to stall again now that I did the TPS again, then stuff the most restrictive insert into the exhaust and see how long til it stalls there? All of the info and suggestions is really really appreciated, everyone!
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Jan 14, 2017 22:30
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Coydog posted:Wing's has very clearly communicated that "WINGS muffler is designed in the way that with dB-killer mounted there is no need to remap". I didn't have the stock exhaust on long enough to experience any stalls because it melted melted everything. If I'm being completely honest with myself, I think the issue cropped up in the week after I installed the Wings. Yeah, mine had no problems whatsoever with snatchy throttle, random flameouts and poo poo like that until I got the Evo2 kit installed. Akra also claims the db-killer doesn't matter for the map, which is clearly not true (I know of several cases where the insert has made a big difference, although if in or out is the correct solution varies).
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Jan 15, 2017 02:06
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I think that confirms it, then. So nice to hear someone with an exact same situation. Bear in mind, it DOES have a DB killer installed, but it's the larger of the two. It stalled again tonight on an errand, so I'm going to put the slightly more restrictive one in tomorrow and see if it helps. The 690 has quite a few dealbreakers by poor design, and yet none of that matters when you ride it. It's just that loving awesome.
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Jan 15, 2017 05:38
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Coydog posted:I love my 690 to death but it may be the death of me. The EFI is poo poo so god help you if you live in a climate that changes temps drastically week to week or day to day. Do the idle reset procedure when it's cold? Random stalls if you get warm weather. Idle reset when warm? You are hosed if a cold front comes in. Dude, get it retuned. I have 0 issues - my bike has the modded airbox and gutted exhaust with a PC5 and 0 issues. e: that white connector is NOT standard, both of mine and all the other 690s I've ever seen are all black. Shimrod fucked around with this message at 07:50 on Jan 15, 2017 |
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Jan 15, 2017 07:43
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If you wanna run an aftermarket exhaust, you're gonna have to get it tuned. There's the rare 690 that responds ok to an exhaust but it's never that great without fixing the tuning.
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Jan 15, 2017 18:14
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White connector was on the bike when I bought it, so  I didn't have stalling issues, but I put a stock can on the bike almost immediately after I bought it. It came with a FMF Q4 that was loud as gently caress and killed the midrange. I was told that it already had the Akro map in it, but never had that verified at a dealer. Archives access required: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3100205&pagenumber=33&perpage=40#post383539123
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Jan 15, 2017 19:22
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Jazzzzz posted:. I was told that it already had the Akro map in it, but never had that verified at a dealer.  I just don't know about that, though. Other than the random stall, it runs like a top. I'd think it would be getting bad MPG or running poorly if it had the map but an airbox and near stock exhaust. I DO frequently send 6 inch jets of blue fire out the rear, which is a real crowd pleaser let me tell ya. I'll put the restrictive db killer in soon and see if that improves things. One of the people on the group ride today was a guy with lots of experience with the 690, and KTM in general. I mentioned the stall to him, and got an immediate "Yeah you want to just do the airbox and evo tune it. Mine did that but it stopped after the tune" before going on to tell me about the 4th gear wheelies it would do after the tune. Really makes me just want to tune it now. The guy was there with an 1190 Adventure with knobbies, yet was leaving us in the twisties and 12'oclocking frequently. Quite a sight to behold. After an entire day in the mountains, I really cannot believe how much I love this 690. Loads of power to keep up with supersports on the highway, all day comfort, and just generally bonkers. 
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Jan 16, 2017 03:17
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I got to ride a BMW S 1000 RR yesterday. The first two minutes was spent giggling and laughing like a lunatic at the acceleration. The bike had a bit of trouble keeping the front wheel down in third gear, which also tops out at 140mph. Riding it made me believe that folding space time is possible. Certainly not a comfy cruiser, but a crazy fun machine nonetheless.
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Jan 16, 2017 05:15
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Coydog posted:
A tune will solve all of your problems. You've brought one of the most finnicky bikes around, change literally ANYTHING and it'll be a shithead. Also make sure you're in the correct power mode setting it's mapped to on the adjuster under the seat. I had the PCV out when I originally got mine which had the map for it on there, and it ran like poo poo, was hard to ride, studdery, etc. Put the PCV back on and it was running on the correct map and was perfect.
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Jan 16, 2017 09:24
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The thing is they're super lean just off idle, but the rest of the mapping is reasonable, usually a touch on the rich side. So you apply throttle just off idle and it leans out, makes less power, and if you accelerate too briskly, let the clutch out too quickly, etc, it stalls. You're fine once you get past about ~2k rpm. Also the bike should wheelie in 4th gear without mods. The OEM exhaust and the massive amount of back pressure it provides really helps the midrange.
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Jan 16, 2017 18:06
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Yes it all depends on tuning. I see a lot of people riding the newer 690/701 with a Wings (i.e. decat) and one of the provided db killers without issues. I've also seen evidence that swapping in an open airbox lid is fine. However, the engine can't take both. Maybe the newer ones are less finicky than the older generation. Your bike will use different ways of calculating fueling depending on rpm and throttle position. On the newer LC4s, this is o2 when idling or cruising, MAP at low vacuum and just the tables at high vacuum. These tables are by default lean at low revs and fat at high revs for emissions reasons. So if you add ill researched mods to a bike it'll run lean when you whack open the throttle, just where there's the most risk of detonation. In any case this is what I've been able to find out, there's a lot of conflicting information out there. In your case, instead of mapping straight away I would first go back to completely stock. I.e. verify it's got the stock map in there, put the stock pipe on. Take off the melting side panel if necessary. Then go from there. Also if your bike has some kind of fat 'akra' map in there, that could be why the stock exhaust gets so hot. From what I understand, in general richer mixtures result in cooler exhaust gases, but running too rich makes the cat hotter.
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Jan 16, 2017 20:54
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This is the most reliable source I've been able to find on 690 tuning info, sehr gut: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NLhcQJX_q0
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Jan 16, 2017 21:00
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Coydog, and don't take this the wrong way, but I love reading your posts about that 690. Cluster broke, plastic melted with stock exhaust, upgraded exhaust has hosed the tuning, stranded you once...but love this bike
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Jan 17, 2017 00:34
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It's like an abusive relationship where the sex is really good.
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Jan 17, 2017 00:37
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I'm starting to feel really loving bad, because I sold him the bike. The one time it stranded me it was my own loving fault - I accidentally pulled the key with the lights left on and killed the battery. The dash I had replaced by KTM under warranty for the same issue it's showing now. I didn't have the stalling stuff but I went back to a stock exhaust right after I bought the bike. No issues with it melting plastics except for the header burning a hole in my pants. That said, I didn't ride the piss out of it (the way it really should be ridden). If I'd known the bike was going to be this much trouble I would've just traded it in somewhere vs inflicting it on someone else.
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Jan 17, 2017 00:50
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Uhm, you sold me a garage queen 690smc, fully blinged out, with a mountain of parts and plastics, immaculately cared for, for $5500. And you were an awesome host. So, you shut your mouth. Without you, I wouldn't be riding my absolute dream bike daily, and I doubled the odometer in two months. I absolutely love this bike, and knew what I was getting into. I think I have an idea on how to fix the dash permanently if it does this again. I am upset at KTM for their poo poo EFI in the year of our lord two thousand and eight. I am FURIOUS that the only USA option for a proper midrange supermoto is the 690 (701 is basically the same thing). Where is the super reliable 500-700cc Japanese option? Where is the American option?! The recent tech suggestions aren't being ignored. I need to get back to ya'll after I study them more. Thank you!!! EDIT:  OVER NINE THOUSAND?! What is wrong with people. It's a dirtbike and it's priced higher than an FZ-09. The 701 could run you 15k out the door. This is highway robbery. People love supermotos, and the only thing stopping more from being sold is marketing. Coydog fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Jan 17, 2017 |
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Jan 17, 2017 01:06
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People will probably poo poo on me for this but IMO the 690 and other SM-themed bikes are far too heavy and soft to be proper motards; this becomes apparent the minute you ride a big bore MX bike with motard wheels on it. The DRZ is closer to the mark but ancient and heavy as poo poo, the WR250 is closer still but the engine is way too weaksauce thanks to being a road bike with sane service intervals and poo poo. The WR450 is literally a yzf 450 with lights, a generator and slightly more conservative gearing and engine tuning. It has like 30kg up on a 690 and the difference in handling feel you get from that is huge.
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Jan 17, 2017 01:41
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Slavvy posted:People will probably poo poo on me for this but IMO the 690 and other SM-themed bikes are far too heavy and soft to be proper motards; this becomes apparent the minute you ride a big bore MX bike with motard wheels on it. The DRZ is closer to the mark but ancient and heavy as poo poo, the WR250 is closer still but the engine is way too weaksauce thanks to being a road bike with sane service intervals and poo poo. Sure, but you can't run 800 mile days on a WR450 without stopping to change the oil twice. The DRZ is 30 pounds heavier than the SMC, the WR250X is basically the same weight as the SMC but with about a third the HP. Like, if you don't actually ride the bike ever except for hooligan rides, you should be buying an FS570, if you want to put the miles on the bike, the extra displacement, oil capacity, counterbalancer, 6 speed gearbox, and somewhat more relaxed engine tuning (ie, not 10-20k between rebuilds) is pretty much a requirement. Coydog posted:Uhm, you sold me a garage queen 690smc, fully blinged out, with a mountain of parts and plastics, immaculately cared for, for $5500. And you were an awesome host. So, you shut your mouth. Without you, I wouldn't be riding my absolute dream bike daily, and I doubled the odometer in two months. I absolutely love this bike, and knew what I was getting into. http://www.supermotojunkie.com/showthread.php?101162-690-speedo-fog-repair This is how you fix the speedo. A (good) supermoto isn't any cheaper to make than a modern sportbike, honestly.
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Jan 17, 2017 03:01
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The WR450Fs are sold as road legal enduros in the UK and elsewhere, 1000 mile oil changes seem to do just fine and they don't go through top ends like motocross bikes seem to. That said, "800 mile day on a sumo" makes my taint hurt. That's pretty goddamned hardcore.
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Jan 17, 2017 03:48
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Jazzzzz posted:The WR450Fs are sold as road legal enduros in the UK and elsewhere, 1000 mile oil changes seem to do just fine and they don't go through top ends like motocross bikes seem to. I wouldn't do 800 miles a day on anything less than a Goldwing or a Road King to say the least. gently caress, even 800 miles a day in a car is borderline self-flagellation. Stopping for gas every 2 hours might make it tolerable, but drat.
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Jan 17, 2017 04:05
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800 miles in a day? They make a sumo for that.  ...yeah, it's not the same. The NWS is constantly telling me 50 degree days are just around the corner!
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Jan 17, 2017 04:17
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