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If it's been covered I'm sorry, but HOLY poo poo YOU GUYS WE HAVE TO TALK ABOUT THE DIRECT-TO-YOUTUBE RED(!!) BLOCKBUSTER THE THINNING https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FbQoI8P7c4 Who let eighth graders disgruntled teachers write a movie? How does it have such a generic name, and not something cool, like Standardized Killing
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Jan 17, 2017 03:46
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I've had sleep paralysis a couple of times. What happens is that when you're dreaming, your brain shuts down the pathways for voluntary motion because it doesn't want you to hurt yourself while you're sleeping. But sometimes, you regain partial consciousness without those passageways being reopened, and the stress and residual dream patterns can cause some pretty vivid hallucinations. Fortunately, if you're intellectually aware of the phenomenon and especially if you've experienced it before, you're lucid enough that you can recognize what's happening and minimize the negative experience, but I've seen devil-dogs impersonating my puppy and other horrors. Not fun!
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Jan 17, 2017 03:47
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that dudes face makes me really uncomfortable
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Jan 17, 2017 03:47
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I am not questioning if it's a real distinct thing found by medical science, I am saying, in the old days, it comes and goes, iirc, pretty quickly, why wouldn't people pass it off as a dream? do people feel, this is the line that I have woken up? i mean most days its obvious, but sometimes i remember the residues of something, think something happened, then slowly clear my head. as for vampires, so all monsters stories are the same.. to scare your kids into conforming, or for adults, explaining seductions and losing fights? why are vampires/ghosts or whatever attached with this sleep thing? I feel ghosts when I am awake, alone in the dark, despite rationally not believing in them.
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Jan 17, 2017 03:49
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DoctorWhat posted:Fortunately, if you're intellectually aware of the phenomenon and especially if you've experienced it before, you're lucid enough that you can recognize what's happening and minimize the negative experience, but I've seen devil-dogs impersonating my puppy and other horrors. Not fun! It can help, but it's not a guarantee. I guess it depends on how woke (lol) you are, cause sometimes it's easy to fight, and other times, it's like a nightmarish prison. You lie there telling yourself "this is just sleep paralysis, no big deal", but also there's a rotten meatgolem lurching toward your immobile body.
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Jan 17, 2017 03:50
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You know what the perfect solution to both sleep paralysis and bad dreams is. Get black out drunk every night. If you can't remember anything after 10 pm there's no trauma.
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Jan 17, 2017 03:51
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Femur posted:I am not questioning if it's a real distinct thing found by medical science, I am saying, in the old days, it comes and goes, iirc, pretty quickly, why wouldn't people pass it off as a dream? do people feel, this is the line that I have woken up? i mean most days its obvious, but sometimes i remember the residues of something, think something happened, then slowly clear my head. You are definitely at least like 90% mentally awake. You're way more aware than if you're lucid dreaming, which is pretty aware. At least in my experience, lucid dreams just get put in the old dream-box so I have to write them down fast when I wake up if I want to remember them for later. In sleep paralysis, everything works in my brain. Memories & language/spelling (spelling doesn't usually work correctly in my dreams, even if lucid). I'm just trapped in a dead body & there's a goddamned presence nearby.
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Jan 17, 2017 03:55
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Powaqoatse posted:You are definitely at least like 90% mentally awake. You're way more aware than if you're lucid dreaming, which is pretty aware. I guess the problem for me was that I assume my experience is everyones. like I don't dream like you at all. I don't even believe I dream at all. I just wake up and the day goes on. sometimes I think I experience something, than wake up worried/scared, until it clears and relax that it wasn't real. I assume this is just dreaming. So like if i eeriely can't move, a great pressure coming over me, then suddenly I can, well, to me, the before was a dream. To me all those things before was whatever dream. I thought people in general would just do the same throughout history. I can't assume this is the same process for everyone. Femur fucked around with this message at 04:43 on Jan 17, 2017 |
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Jan 17, 2017 04:25
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Femur posted:I guess the problem for me was that I assume my experience is everyones. like I don't dream like you at all. I don't even believe I dream at all. I just wake up and the day goes on. sometimes I think I experience something, than wake up worried/scared, until it clears and relax that it wasn't real. I assume this is just dreaming. So like if i eeriely can't move, a great pressure coming over me, then suddenly I can, well, to me, the before was a dream. I don't think it's so much that it isn't the same process for everyone, so much as you're just describing a dream, and sleep paralysis isn't that. As far as I'm aware, I've only experienced it three times in my life (and there was a 20+ year gap between the first two). I don't think it's a common thing at all, it's just memorable if it does happen.
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Jan 17, 2017 04:43
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Femur posted:I am not questioning if it's a real distinct thing found by medical science, I am saying, in the old days, it comes and goes, iirc, pretty quickly, why wouldn't people pass it off as a dream? Regardless of how Sleep Paralysis is a very distinct state from dreaming: You do realize that dream interpretation is a very real tradition in almost every culture and that, up until the last couple centuries, a lot of people were pretty confident in the idea that dreams had very real meaning to the waking world, right?
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Jan 17, 2017 04:49
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I haven't had any in a while, but I basically went nearly a decade having pretty regular sleep paralysis episodes. one or two a week. It became really tiring, and I had to drug myself to fall asleep sometimes, and sometimes the drugs made it worse. I knew what was happening and usually I can cope, and usually it becomes a semi-lucid dream where I can walk around, but unlike an actual lucid dream I can't seem to bend the fabric of the dream world or anything. Of course sometimes there would be evil presences I couldn't do anything about and just had to deal with the brain-scrambling it did, and it has a real emotional effect on me when it's like that. I wake up, upset, obsessed with the dream, and it lingers for days sometimes. I get why people think or thought it was real. It can have a really serious impact on the psyche
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Jan 17, 2017 04:51
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Femur posted:I guess the problem for me was that I assume my experience is everyones. like I don't dream like you at all. I don't even believe I dream at all. I just wake up and the day goes on. sometimes I think I experience something, than wake up worried/scared, until it clears and relax that it wasn't real. I assume this is just dreaming. So like if i eeriely can't move, a great pressure coming over me, then suddenly I can, well, to me, the before was a dream. To me all those things before was whatever dream. I thought people in general would just do the same throughout history. Gotcha. You do dream; everybody dreams (it's a natural process), but your brain is real quick to flush it out when you wake up. That's natural, too. Dreams aren't supposed to be saved for posterity, it's basically just your brain imagining things & trying things & going nuts while you sleep, and then it gets deleted. Even as someone who is pretty good about remembering dreams, it takes a lot of effort. My method is keeping my eyes closed as I wake up, then going over the locations in my mind, the persons, etc, working down to the plot (or lack thereof). My brain is 100% gungho on just deleting eveything. Sometimes I can feel it happen, I feel like going "wait but the islands and the weather!" or something, but it's being deleted, so now I only remember those words, and not what they mean or signify. I'm surprised you've never experienced that. Waking up to a dream that you wish you could remember, but nope?
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Jan 17, 2017 04:59
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:Regardless of how Sleep Paralysis is a very distinct state from dreaming: You do realize that dream interpretation is a very real tradition in almost every culture and that, up until the last couple centuries, a lot of people were pretty confident in the idea that dreams had very real meaning to the waking world, right? Game of Thrones rears its ugly head.
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Jan 17, 2017 05:01
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Sleep paralysis is easy to interpret as some supernatural force if you're not at all aware of the science of sleep. Anything that's at all scary can easily feel like malevolence. Hell, it's easy to feel like there's something out to get you just from the dark. I take my dog out to pee every night before bed and lately the light over the back door of our building has been out. It's the same door I've gone in thousands of times and at different times of the night but only because of the light being out have I started to get the heebie-jeebies using that door.
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Jan 17, 2017 05:07
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Also: Dream interpretation is bullshit. You can use whatever in the dream as conversation starters if you're an actual psychologist, but there's no 1:1 symbolism a danish newspaper had a feature or something about dreams, and i sent in a dream i had & they picked it. so they got 4 diffent professional "dream interpreters" to look at it, and it was increddibly pedestrian like, at one point in the dream i was taking a chemistry class in italy & a guy from my class stole a chemical, it was kinda viscuous, glowy. anyway in the dream i was then suddenly in a forest near a cave with my younger brothers. for some reason i smeared the radioactive green chemical poo poo on my face to scare them, but then it started to burn a little & i scratched at it & my skin started to flake off & i pulled the skin & muscle off my face, leaving just the skull Dream Interpreter: "you are afraid to lose face before your brothers" like a: of course nobody wants that and b: "lose face" wow you really paid attention good job 
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Jan 17, 2017 05:12
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Sinners Sandwich posted:What about the spaceship then I don't think you ever see a spaceship, just lights in the sky.
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Jan 17, 2017 05:22
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:That's barely even a fan theory, it's just what happens. I think there's a big problem with this interpretation that if you want to be somewhat biblically consistent you kind of have to view it as the aliens are angels not demons and are wandering around rapturing people. Otherwise the movie becomes a story of Job where Satan wins the bet. Mel Gibson is a priest who abandons God when his wife is taken away and has his dog killed and only comes back into the fold when God saves his sons life.
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Jan 17, 2017 06:54
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Simplex posted:I think there's a big problem with this interpretation that if you want to be somewhat biblically consistent you kind of have to view it as the aliens are angels not demons and are wandering around rapturing people. Otherwise the movie becomes a story of Job where Satan wins the bet. Mel Gibson is a priest who abandons God when his wife is taken away and has his dog killed and only comes back into the fold when God saves his sons life. Nah, it's modern American Evangelical Christianity where God reveals himself to the lost and the fallen constantly, not Old Testament book of Job God. Swap the aliens for literal red devils with horns and Mel Gibson for Kirk Cameron, Kevin Sorbo or that Baldwin who went crazy and it's basically one of a dozen movies that are released direct to video every year.
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Jan 17, 2017 07:24
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Femur posted:I am not questioning if it's a real distinct thing found by medical science, I am saying, in the old days, it comes and goes, iirc, pretty quickly, why wouldn't people pass it off as a dream? You are clearly and distinctly 100% awake and conscious during sleep paralysis, you're just unable to exert any control over your body. That is why people don't pass it off as a dream. You can try and go back to sleep during sleep paralysis, and you can go back to sleep after sleep paralysis, but you can also just get up and go about your day like normal after sleep paralysis. It is not a similar experience to a dream.
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Jan 17, 2017 07:29
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Skwirl posted:Nah, it's modern American Evangelical Christianity where God reveals himself to the lost and the fallen constantly, not Old Testament book of Job God. Swap the aliens for literal red devils with horns and Mel Gibson for Kirk Cameron, Kevin Sorbo or that Baldwin who went crazy and it's basically one of a dozen movies that are released direct to video every year. Yeah the weltanschauung of Signs is 100% weird American protestantism. Everyone is Job, but also everyone kinda deserves it (until they figure out the secret clue). It's really well put together though, and Joaquin Phoenix in particular is great
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Jan 17, 2017 07:33
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:Regardless of how Sleep Paralysis is a very distinct state from dreaming: You do realize that dream interpretation is a very real tradition in almost every culture and that, up until the last couple centuries, a lot of people were pretty confident in the idea that dreams had very real meaning to the waking world, right? yes, but if you believed monsters cause your dreams, you wouldn't bother deriving meaning for it.
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Jan 17, 2017 07:35
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Femur posted:yes, but if you believed monsters cause your dreams, you wouldn't bother deriving meaning for it. Yes you would, because if you didn't do what the monsters wanted (or conversely protect yourself from the monsters) they'll eat you in your sleep.
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Jan 17, 2017 07:41
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Femur posted:yes, but if you believed monsters cause your dreams, you wouldn't bother deriving meaning for it. recorded history kinda disproves you here bud
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Jan 17, 2017 07:44
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Skwirl posted:Nah, it's modern American Evangelical Christianity where God reveals himself to the lost and the fallen constantly, not Old Testament book of Job God. Swap the aliens for literal red devils with horns and Mel Gibson for Kirk Cameron, Kevin Sorbo or that Baldwin who went crazy and it's basically one of a dozen movies that are released direct to video every year. But Shyamalan isn't an Evangelical Christian, and he's the one who wrote the movie. Mel Gibson's religious beliefs aren't really in-line with modern American Evangelicalism, except for when it suits their purposes. It seems to me the warm and fuzzy modern rendition of Job is that God allows Satan to poo poo on Job for awhile, but Job continues to praise God, then God gives him all of his stuff back. I think if the aliens, are just that - aliens, it's easy to handwave a lot of the problematic religious context away, and just say God works in mysterious ways. But if they are demons, then its true that Job only praises God because of all the good poo poo he gives him. He didn't even have to inflict bodily harm on him, just take away his wife and dog and Job will crack. Then God doesn't give a gently caress and gives Job his stuff back anyways because he apparently doesn't really care one way or the other. That's kind of a weird interpretation even for modern American Evangelicals.
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Jan 17, 2017 08:12
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Sinners Sandwich posted:What about the spaceship then They're alien demons, from alien hell. Gotta fly here after they crawl out of the ground on Mars or wherever.
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Jan 17, 2017 13:54
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Simplex posted:But Shyamalan isn't an Evangelical Christian, and he's the one who wrote the movie. Mel Gibson's religious beliefs aren't really in-line with modern American Evangelicalism, except for when it suits their purposes. That sounds more like like Calvinism or Prosperity Gospel, i.e. modern American Evangelicalism.
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Jan 17, 2017 14:03
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:She looks more like if Rebel Wilson got ripped. This made me laugh out loud. I thought the exact same, haha.
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Jan 17, 2017 14:11
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Femur posted:yes, but if you believed monsters cause your dreams, you wouldn't bother deriving meaning for it. How have you been pedantically arguing with everyone else for two pages and nobody has mentioned your red title yet?
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Jan 17, 2017 15:05
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Enola Gay-For-Pay posted:How have you been pedantically arguing with everyone else for two pages and nobody has mentioned your red title yet? Red titles are for cowards
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Jan 17, 2017 15:17
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Femur posted:yeah but how do you separate that from any other dream? you can easily assume you haven't woken up yet? during sleep paralysis you are awake but frozen and can see things in the room that aren't there.
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Jan 17, 2017 15:18
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Groovelord Neato posted:during sleep paralysis you are awake but frozen and can see things in the room that aren't there. Just close yo eyes!
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Jan 17, 2017 15:20
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Mierenneuker posted:I wouldn't mind a foreign remake of Lady in the Water. I think there are filmmakers in other countries would could do wonders with such a premise. Speaking of foreigners and this movie, HBO has been replaying it constantly recently and I could can only watch it for a couple of minutes before possibly the most offensive Asian stereotypes in years comes along. I mean, what the hell was he thinking?! FreudianSlippers posted:Aliens, in general not in Signs specifically, are a modern incarnation of fairies/elves. They're a mysterious otherworldly force that is like us but different. They abduct people and like faires (and succubi/incubi, vampires, mares and shadow people) they're an attempt to explain sleep paralysis. Uh, sleep paralysis is obviously the work of demon people, like duh. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtw7oMkdfHQ Shageletic fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Jan 17, 2017 |
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Jan 17, 2017 15:45
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Signs was a good time up until the end, the video of the alien walking past the back yard party was drat freaky. The ending was poop though. The Happening is the best unintentional comedy ever made unless it was intentional in which case it's less cool. The guy getting his arm ripped off by the lion/tiger was superb and the dude laying down in front of the ride on mower made me laugh pretty hard. It's just so stupid.
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Jan 17, 2017 16:06
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Shageletic posted:Speaking of foreigners and this movie, HBO has been replaying it constantly recently and I could can only watch it for a couple of minutes before possibly the most offensive Asian stereotypes in years comes along. I mean, what the hell was he thinking? They have accents (paging Ruddiger) and the mother is demanding and prickly. The latter is a stereotype but it's not a very sinister one. Jewish/East Asian/Indian moms are wacky and overbearing is a stock joke for American Jews and East and South Asians, too. I watched the movie for the first time last night and I'm honestly flummoxed by how hated it is. Tremendous score, great photography, and a funny little play on the self aware family film sub genre. As is often the case when I watch these super hated films, it turns out they're less bad than goofy. Some people really hate goofy I guess.
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Jan 17, 2017 18:10
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DeimosRising posted:They have accents (paging Ruddiger) and the mother is demanding and prickly. The latter is a stereotype but it's not a very sinister one. Jewish/East Asian/Indian moms are wacky and overbearing is a stock joke for American Jews and East and South Asians, too. I watched the movie for the first time last night and I'm honestly flummoxed by how hated it is. Tremendous score, great photography, and a funny little play on the self aware family film sub genre. As is often the case when I watch these super hated films, it turns out they're less bad than goofy. Some people really hate goofy I guess.
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Jan 17, 2017 18:50
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Femur posted:I can't assume this is the same process for everyone. You have your answer.
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Jan 17, 2017 19:04
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Simplex posted:It seems to me the warm and fuzzy modern rendition of Job is that God allows Satan to poo poo on Job for awhile, but Job continues to praise God, then God gives him all of his stuff back. I think if the aliens, are just that - aliens, it's easy to handwave a lot of the problematic religious context away, and just say God works in mysterious ways. But if they are demons, then its true that Job only praises God because of all the good poo poo he gives him. He didn't even have to inflict bodily harm on him, just take away his wife and dog and Job will crack. Then God doesn't give a gently caress and gives Job his stuff back anyways because he apparently doesn't really care one way or the other. You're missing a lot of the nuance. The aliens are simultaneously demonic and angelic. It's Book of Revelation imagery: the aliens as locusts summoned by the fifth angel, with poisonous 'stingers' on their wrists. Their goal is entirely inscrutable. People are being abducted, but is this the rapture or something else? A culling of the herd? "There's a man going around taking names / And he decides who to free and who to blame. / Everybody won't be treated all the same. / There'll be a golden ladder reaching down / When the man comes around." "They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any green plant or any tree, but only those people who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads." We can't assume the aliens are malicious. That one alien from the ending only seeks revenge after being captured, abandoned, and mutilated. (A fallen angel? Satan?) There's no clue as to what motivates the rest of them. Signs is about God as an evil, demonic character. A dark chronic entity. God as a literally-existing alien horror. It's against this evil God that Gibson embraces the Holy Spirit - the fact that the true God is dead, and so we have only our belief to unite us. The miracle at the end is that there was no plan. God did not intervene. The water is specifically just regular tap water, not holy at all. Their survival was a total accident - except that they embrace this accident and pick up a baseball bat. The ambiguity of the ending is that things 'go back to normal' after the event. What will Gibson teach now that things have calmed down? What sort of community will he create?
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Jan 17, 2017 19:29
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:That sounds more like like Calvinism or Prosperity Gospel, i.e. modern American Evangelicalism. Are you sure you know what Calvinism is? I've never once heard it linked to "Prosperity Gospel" ever, and most modern mainstream Christianity believes the opposite of what Calvin taught. SuperMechagodzilla posted:I know it's your thing to do the whole death of the author thing, but I'd like some proof from the film that shows God as evil. Gibson does hate God at one point, but then clearly has a change of heart at the end. I also find it hard to believe that Gibson would view the movie (or play his character) in this way when he believes the complete opposite in his personal life. zandert33 fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Jan 17, 2017 |
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Jan 17, 2017 20:28
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zandert33 posted:Are you sure you know what Calvinism is? I've never once heard it linked to "Prosperity Gospel" ever, and most modern mainstream Christianity believes the opposite of what Calvin taught. Calvinism mutated into a whole different thing in America.
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Jan 17, 2017 21:15
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Calvinism mutated into a whole different thing in America. I'd like you to point me to something linking Calvinism to prosperity gospel. I did Google searching and what I found is the two being contrasted with each other, not linked together.
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Jan 17, 2017 21:47
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