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To be fair, one of the biggest adventures of the early hero wars was just babysitting. (Babysitting a giant baby in a massive cradle floating down the Zola Fel river, such that hadn't been seen since the second age, and literally fighting off multiple armies to keep the Lunar empire from killing the baby and looting its cradle for treasure.)
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Jan 16, 2017 16:44
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rkajdi posted:One other thing-- Does the Third Age hold up on the same level of insane stuff happening that the Second Age has? Yes, basically. The Lunar Empire is totally nuts - their Goddess should basically by all rights be a Chaos Goddes but doesn't really seem to be, and her party trick is that when she came back from going into Chaos she brought the Crimson Bat, a flying kaiju, with her and loans it out to her people when they really need poo poo loving up. There's a subplot featuring a lovely gentleman by the name of Sheng Seleris who is a random guy who was born in the same year as the Lunar Goddess. When her enormous red moon appeared in the sky, he went "I'm definitely going to walk on that some day." He later led a slave rebellion, got captured and horribly tortured, achieved karmic enlightenment and then disappeared up his own bum and came out as some sort of Ultimate Murder Buddha. He then proceeded to go on what can only be described as an almighty rampage where his chosen method of choice for calling out people he wanted to get into fights with was depopulating entire provinces and dumping the bodies in the rivers so they turned red. Sheng Seleris later gets his murder on again, heads up to the Red Moon with an army and lays waste to it - the Red Goddess has to personally show up herself to kill him and sends him to Lunar Hell to suffer for all eternity, but not before he leaves permanent scars on both her and the moon. One of the defining "jesus christ calm down" moments of the previously mentioned Arkat, who was a hero who hated the Lunar Empire, was that he decided to break into Lunar Hell to free Sheng Seleris so that they could buddy up and commit genocide on the Lunars. It may be obvious that this was a monumentally bad idea.
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Jan 16, 2017 17:54
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Ataxerxes posted:Does anyone know a method for contacting Uwe Rosenberg, designer of Agricola? Can't seem to find an email adress for him. You could try sending him a message via boardgamegeek.com.
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Jan 16, 2017 17:57
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It was Argrath who brought Sheng Sheleris back, not Arkat, Arkat was before both of them. Still an epically bad idea, though. ...Though given that one interpretation of Argrath is "He's a myth that's a stand in for the collective action of player characters in the Hero Wars" well, it's just the sort of plan a group of PCs would come up, really.
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Jan 16, 2017 19:24
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rkajdi posted:I thought sort of the point of Glorantha was that, at least for the non-Chaos parts of civilization, the setting really didn't set up a good guy/bad guy kind of children's morality. So the antagonists are based on who is chosen as the protagonists for a campaign, rather than the IMO stupid "They are evil and I am good, so I get to murder their children and still be just" that D&D seems to fall into a lot. The whole Arkat thing seem to support that, since he's both the hero and villain in each culture as he joins, uses, and then leaves the culture on the way to killing Gbaji. Yes, morality is still subjective in Glorantha. On one hand, the Lunar Empire is the greatest empire Genertela has seen within Time. The standard of living for commoners in the central territories is great for a fantasy bronze/iron age society, religious tolerance is the law of the land, and the Empire has introduced legal gender equality within the old patriarchal heartlands of Dara Happa. The Lunar Way has brought peace and prosperity to thousands of souls. On the other hand, the Lunar Empire is the worst thing since the God Learners. They openly embrace Chaos, they are relentless imperial expansionists, and they destroy any god, religion, culture, or race that refuses to accept the Lunar Way. Right now they're trying to eliminate all worship of Orlanth, since he claims sole sovereignty over the Middle Air, where the Moon Goddess also reigns. Likewise, the modern Sartarite Orlanthi are the ragtag freedom fighters who value independence over all other things, are live-and-let-live to their neighbors, and are some of the lone warriors against Chaos in central Genertela. They are also hidebound traditionalists who think that murder is OK if you announce your intention to do so in public, think that non-Orlanthi in their lands have no legal rights, and their ancestors were forced into Dragon Pass because they were too traditionalist for the heartlands of Orlanthi paganism (as seen in King of Dragon Pass). They're very much a small, xenophobic culture that was made important only by their location at the crossroads of the continent, in contrast to their cosmopolitan enemies. The canonical Sartarite champion, Argrath, is notedly a major hypocrite who will do whatever it takes, no matter the consequences, to send the Red Moon crashing to the ground (and onto the people below it). That all being said, most of the 3rd Age material written from the 1970s until now assumes that you're in either Dragon Pass or Prax, which is very much where the Lunars are mostly just the invading imperialists. Because of this there is the assumption that you're playing as non-Lunars opposed to the empire, but mechanical support and setting detail for some of their cults have been provided. I'm looking forwards to whenever someone more in the know about the setting lore starts up the next Glorantha thread.
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Jan 17, 2017 01:16
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Spiderfist Island posted:That all being said, most of the 3rd Age material written from the 1970s until now assumes that you're in either Dragon Pass or Prax, which is very much where the Lunars are mostly just the invading imperialists. Because of this there is the assumption that you're playing as non-Lunars opposed to the empire, but mechanical support and setting detail for some of their cults have been provided. I'm looking forwards to whenever someone more in the know about the setting lore starts up the next Glorantha thread. So basically what you got out of the OWoD stuff, where there was a splatblook or lip service played to playing the typically de-protagonized group? I do guess it's better than that, since White Wolf always still made you feel like you were playing the villains even when they were protagonized, i.e. you were playing the "evil campaign" when being the non-Morality Vampire sects or the Technocracy. I tried to introduce the idea of more rich cultures into my D&D games, but it more or less failed because 1) I am not an anthropologist and 2) I didn't spend anywhere near the time at it to get things set up. I ran with the standard "make up details as you need them" model (i.e. the comic book method), which doesn't create cultural depth since the main things are what matter to the story you are currently creating. And most pre-built worlds have lovely D&D alignment-style morality, meaning you don't get much about orc's inner lives, and PCs are encouraged to do depraved things to them. I am just getting to old to be the CPU in a pen & paper rear end in a top hat Simulator. The only stuff that I've found that gets away from that is Exalted (though the game is complete poo poo) and now Glorantha. Hopefully I can get something together to play a game again where I can stand the output of a play session.
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Jan 17, 2017 02:53
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I like the tapir men who herd non-sentient humans around for food
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Jan 17, 2017 02:59
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Nuns with Guns posted:I like the tapir men who herd non-sentient humans around for food Sounds like something out of Bojack Horseman.
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Jan 17, 2017 03:11
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Simian_Prime posted:Sounds like something out of Bojack Horseman. Yeah, basically 
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Jan 17, 2017 03:18
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The Tapir have a sacred ritual to create magical opposable thumbs. Morokanth rule.
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Jan 17, 2017 03:24
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Mr. Maltose posted:The Tapir have a sacred ritual to create magical opposable thumbs. Morokanth rule. drat, the more I see, the more I enjoy this.
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Jan 17, 2017 03:30
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Nuns with Guns posted:I like the tapir men who herd non-sentient humans around for food Especially interesting in that on a metaphysical level they truly are Men, while their herd beasts are merely animals that look like men(although there is magic that can make them sentient, just as there's one that can turn a human into a herd beast)
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Jan 17, 2017 03:36
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Mr. Maltose posted:Morokanth rule. 
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Jan 17, 2017 03:38
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Everything I've ever read about the setting of Exalted makes me want to play it, and everything I've ever read about the mechanics, of any edition, crushes my dreams. Glorantha on the other hand is a lot of serious stuff I like for what it is and a lot of silly stuff I like for what it is, but combined it just doesn't appeal to me for some reason. e: oh right and the whole chaos magic "belief makes it so" stuff which i don't like in any context, that doesn't help
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Jan 17, 2017 03:39
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Exalted owes Glorantha a hell of a lot, at the very least. But it's not at all presented as cleanly as Exalted's color-coded world is.
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Jan 17, 2017 03:40
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Everything I've ever read about the setting of Exalted makes me want to play it, and everything I've ever read about the mechanics, of any edition, crushes my dreams. Exactly the opposite for me at least when comparing the two settings, at least when taken as a whole(except Glorantha Dwarves, I'll admit I really don't like them as they're assholes and not in the interesting way)
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Jan 17, 2017 03:41
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The Morokanth are one of the five(?) tribes of Prax. The other four are humans who have a special connection to a totemic animal. Basically the Praxian god Waha held contests with the winner getting to eat the loser but the loser gaining the ability to live in the Wastelands. The Wastelands were mythically hosed by the GODSWAR against Chaos so it's not a bad deal either way. Humans won each time handily except for the Tapirs who either cheated or won completely legitimately depending on who you ask, which is why they herd Gerns, humans without sentience.
Mr. Maltose fucked around with this message at 03:46 on Jan 17, 2017 |
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Jan 17, 2017 03:43
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Everything I've ever read about the setting of Exalted makes me want to play it, and everything I've ever read about the mechanics, of any edition, crushes my dreams. I've been reading GodBound and it pretty much crushes Exalted in every way. Plus its free! Simian_Prime fucked around with this message at 03:49 on Jan 17, 2017 |
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Jan 17, 2017 03:45
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rkajdi posted:drat, the more I see, the more I enjoy this. Glorantha is also the only setting around where you'll find that ducks are shockingly effective at combating the undead.
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Jan 17, 2017 03:52
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Donald Duck in "Army of Duckness"
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Jan 17, 2017 03:57
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Everything I've ever read about the setting of Exalted makes me want to play it, and everything I've ever read about the mechanics, of any edition, crushes my dreams.
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Jan 17, 2017 04:01
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Godbound is pretty fuckin legit and unlike Exalted 3E actually exists as more than a pdf.
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Jan 17, 2017 04:07
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rkajdi posted:The only stuff that I've found that gets away from that is Exalted (though the game is complete poo poo) and now Glorantha. Hopefully I can get something together to play a game again where I can stand the output of a play session. Going back to this, as others have said Godbound is a great Exalted substitute if you want a game with similar themes but simpler, sounder mechanics. The deluxe edition that was recently kickstarted even has a section for divine martial arts and themed demigods which TOTALLY AREN'T the various exalted splats. The 13th Age rules for Glorantha should be out... at some point within our lifetimes, if you don't want to untangle the interesting mess that are BRP rules.
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Jan 17, 2017 04:09
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rkajdi posted:So basically what you got out of the OWoD stuff, where there was a splatblook or lip service played to playing the typically de-protagonized group? I do guess it's better than that, since White Wolf always still made you feel like you were playing the villains even when they were protagonized, i.e. you were playing the "evil campaign" when being the non-Morality Vampire sects or the Technocracy. Ironically enough, the first part of Glorantha to be written by Greg Stafford back in the 1960s wasn't Dragon Pass- it was Loksalm and the Western culture. The funny thing about the West is that when it was detailed in the original supplements, it was done under crunch time by another guy and so they filled a lot of the art and descriptions with western fantasy filler. The Mongoose edition you're reading then continued to portray the Malkioni as being medieval europeans in a bronze age fantasy world. It wasn't until recently that the style and fluff for the Western cultures got re-done as being closer to the original vision, with more of a Hellenistic / Greco-Bactrian look and a kind of Neoplatonic/Theosophic Jewish Kabbalah as the state religions. This apparently was a big deal in the fandom, but I personally got into the setting very recently (~2 years) so I automatically prefer nuWest to oWest.  The West canonically looks more like this now. Kai Tave posted:Godbound is pretty fuckin legit and unlike Exalted 3E actually exists as more than a pdf.
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Jan 17, 2017 04:17
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What's the best F20 (fantasy d20) game?
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Jan 17, 2017 04:42
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Spiderfist Island posted:Sort of, but it's more that Glorantha as a setting is huge as the Guide to Glorantha's size indicates, and making all cultures and locations have meaningful mechanical support and detail in a single rulebook would probably make a given RuneQuest/HeroQuest/etc. book ten times its size. The Dragon Pass area has always been the initial focus of most Glorantha RPGs because it's kind of the major battleground of the coming apocalypse, and so whenever a new edition/game comes out the initial focus of the core rules and supplements goes to giving mechanical support to the local cultures. The Lunar Empire and its affiliated cultures/subcults is pretty well detailed within all the setting material released, but not within the game mechanics compared to the Orlanthi, Praxians, or even Trolls. The northern continent of Genertela alone has a ton of different cultures in it that get a lot of short shrift mechanically, let alone the ocean islands and the south (Pamaltela). IIRC, roll above. The skill system does some reverse engineering to merge roll above and roll under your stats (minus atribute from 20, that is your target number to roll above for skill checks)
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Jan 17, 2017 04:43
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Covok posted:What's the best F20 (fantasy d20) game? Iron Heroes is all right for a Monte Cook production. Which is to say it's still a goddamn mess (there's a proto-Defender class which has literally zero ways of forcing / incentivizing the enemy to hit them) but there are some ideas in there that are ahead of the vanilla D&D curve, at least.
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Jan 17, 2017 04:46
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Kai Tave posted:Godbound is pretty fuckin legit and unlike Exalted 3E actually exists as more than a pdf. I made a thread for it and nobody posted in it and that made me feel sad and bad.
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Jan 17, 2017 05:03
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Iron Heroes is all right for a Monte Cook production. Which is to say it's still a goddamn mess (there's a proto-Defender class which has literally zero ways of forcing / incentivizing the enemy to hit them) but there are some ideas in there that are ahead of the vanilla D&D curve, at least. I just ran an IH adventure in 4e with Martial power source only classes allowed instead.
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Jan 17, 2017 05:06
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Covok posted:What's the best F20 (fantasy d20) game? If you don't mind crunch, Fantasy Craft is a reworked 3.5 that does some awesome things and fixes most of that edition's messes. It is seriously crunchy, though, especially for a GM. (To make a monster, first you use XP to buy all of their abilities and the effectiveness level of their stats, and then you use a chart to find out what the actual stat numbers are for a given level. Simple!)
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Jan 17, 2017 05:10
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SunAndSpring posted:I made a thread for it and nobody posted in it and that made me feel sad and bad. Started looking this game up. I'm downloading the free version to see if it is something I'd be interested in. Something I could easily slot the Exalted setting into that isn't a rules nightmare would be something I'd be down for. Old school anime (when it was giant robots and ninjas, not pedo-bait) has always had a soft spot in my heart.
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Jan 17, 2017 05:14
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Covok posted:What's the best F20 (fantasy d20) game? If we aren't including anything under the OSR umbrella then I'd say Fantasy Craft probably
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Jan 17, 2017 05:19
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SunAndSpring posted:I made a thread for it and nobody posted in it and that made me feel sad and bad. I just discovered it last week and I can confirm the system seems incredibly rad. I'm prepping to run a game of SotDL but I just can't stop laughing at how bewildering the poo poo fetishism is. I mean, really: quote:If you are a living creature, you can use an action to place the azeen near one of your orifices. You take 1d6 damage as slithers through the opening to burrow into your body, where it lodges itself in your guts to feed on your excrement. The GM secretly rolls a d20 to determine how many days it lurks inside you. At the end of this time, the azeen dies and erupts from your body in an explosive bowel movement that strikes with no warning. Shove something up your rear end to eat your poo poo and give you magic parasite whips.
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Jan 17, 2017 05:21
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SunAndSpring posted:I made a thread for it and nobody posted in it and that made me feel sad and bad. I downloaded the PDF, saw counting-down style AC, closed it and deleted it. OSR's not really my thing.
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Jan 17, 2017 05:23
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:I downloaded the PDF, saw counting-down style AC, closed it and deleted it. OSR's not really my thing. Godbound doesn't really use descending AC. To resolve attacks, you roll a d20, add your modifiers, add the targets AC, and you hit if the result is 20 or higher. Positive modifiers, like a high Strength or a magic weapon, are still positive, because it makes it easier for you to get to 20+ Light/low armor, which is a high number (base 9), makes you easy to hit, because a high number makes it easier for you to get to 20+ Negative modifiers, like a curse or a low Strength, are still negative, because it makes it harder for you to get to 20+ Heavy armor, which is a low number (plate armor AC 2), makes you hard to hit, because a low number makes it harder for you to get to 20+
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Jan 17, 2017 05:27
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Yeah I'm not a big OSR buff myself, but Kevin Crawford's output is the exception for me in part because it's clear he's actually trying to break out into interesting new mechanical ground within the framework of OD&D, like how he handles damage in Godbound and Scarlet Tide, and also because he isn't trying to regurgitate the same Ye Olde Gygaxiane elfdwarf fantasy sandbox that there are already too many examples of to count. Plus he's one of the most courteous and conscientious RPG creators out there, dude's super pleasant and loves answering questions about why he did things a certain way and he's never been late on a single Kickstarter.
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Jan 17, 2017 05:35
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Yeah, Godbound is anything but groggy in its style. Using Basic D&D as a base really just gives him an easy on-ramp to explore the game's real mechanics - Effort, Words, and Influence/Dominion. Having run it, the game just works. I ran Ten Buried Blades during the holiday, and my players want to go back to it once we've finished up Zeitgeist 4e.
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Jan 17, 2017 06:06
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Covok posted:What's the best F20 (fantasy d20) game? Kind of a broad question. FantasyCraft has been mentioned, but it suffers in the playability department from how incredibly dense it is. D&D 3rd Edition with rule and class curation can come close, but since so much of what you need to make it work well isn't documented, there can be a high barrier of entry. D&D 4th Edition gets a lot right out of the box, but like 3rd Edition you have to do quite a bit of background reading to get it all down pat. There's also something to be said about combat length exerting a disproportionate influence on how games of it would tend to turn out. Basic D&D (or an appropriate retroclone) hits a nice balance of playability versus balance, but it can be too mechanically light for some peoples's tastes, and most retroclones still have faintly annoying legacy mechanics. 13th Age has a lot going for it, but it assumes that you're already familiar with the F20 genre, and still has issues with play balance at the far ends. Some people also don't like the narrative elements for being too open-ended. Personally, I'd probably use D&D 4th Edition if I knew the players were deeply into tactical combat, and Labyrinth Lord if I wanted a less focused game.
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Jan 17, 2017 06:24
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Glorantha has always seemed like the coolest setting to me, but I have absolutely no interest in playing any version of BRP. HeroQuest seems pretty alright though. The one thing that keeps me away from Glorantha even more than finding a proper system to run it with is that there's simply so much of it. While all the stuff I've heard about it sounds cool the problem is that it's a setting built with a ton of anthropological detail and history and it's been around for more than twenty years now, and that poo poo adds up. It almost feels like if I were to get into Glorantha it would require a huge emotional investment just to get a clear view of what the setting is actually about and what grabs me about it. And that's really a shame, because even though when I run homebrew settings they tend to be very bare and sort of lifeless because I only prep the absolute minimum I need to run a game. While this is good for the sort of off-the-cuff adventuring I like to run, at times I do crave a bit more verisimillitude in my settings (and just to make it clear, I'm not using the word in the understandably reviled "Fighters shouldn't be able to do cool things!" sense but in the sense of having an internally consistent and organic setting). And since everyone's talking Kevin Crawford now, his sourcebook An Echo, Resounding may be just the thing I've been looking for: while it's really about domain management and warfare it also has advice for using the tools presented to prep a borderlands area where different polities compete for power and resources. I think going forward I'm going to prep my campaigns using it and use the domain rules to run background events in the game to make the setting feel a bit more organic instead of everything staying the same since campaign day 1.
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Jan 17, 2017 08:31
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gradenko_2000 posted:Godbound doesn't really use descending AC. Sure seems like you just described a descending AC system there
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Jan 17, 2017 09:47
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