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fishmech posted:the idea of it is that it would be plugged into all major appliances. there would also be provision for signing up to have controls like some utilities have to reduce a/c use or similar things at times of peak demand, which are already in place. So it's not plugged into my washing machine in order to do anything with power cuts at all but rather so the power company can remotely turn off my washing machine if too many other people are boiling the kettle?
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Jan 17, 2017 17:16
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OSI bean dip posted:I have had my Samsung washer leak from having a sock in the gasket. I cannot wait to have it gush all over the floor when it gets owned or gets a faulty update. those don't usually support a full IP stack, just an interface for a zigbee thing. and it basically relays a signal to the appliance telling it either if electric rates are on off-peak so your appliance can schedule cycles during that time or if there is brown-out risk it has the option to obey a command to defer the cycle until the event is over. people blow that poo poo out of proportion
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Jan 17, 2017 17:18
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Chalks posted:Also somehow notifying them without utilising power... small battery pack in the zigbee modem, relays to the smart meter which has a cell modem and small backup battery. the engineers designing this stuff did actually think the use cases through
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Jan 17, 2017 17:20
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Chalks posted:So it's not plugged into my washing machine in order to do anything with power cuts at all but rather so the power company can remotely turn off my washing machine if too many other people are boiling the kettle? no, it would also do things like report on localized blackouts and especially localized brownouts, as well as possibly being controllable to either keep it off at times of peak load, or to be set to only run at times of lowest load, or to implement various delays or alternate modes of operation to reduce power draw a bit. it's all in all similar to the sophisticated control agreements that major industrial and commercial electricity consumers have with their power utilities, that can allow for significantly changing their power draw from the grid to help with stabilizing it without the utility needing to turn on peaking power so often. it doesn't do much for the grid when it's just one household and one device, but when you start getting spread among thousands or millions you can start shifting a lot of energy use
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Jan 17, 2017 17:23
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BangersInMyKnickers posted:small battery pack in the zigbee modem, relays to the smart meter which has a cell modem and small backup battery. the engineers designing this stuff did actually think the use cases through But you'd plug that into your smart meter rather than your washing machine because if the washing machine loses power then you've probably just blown a fuse. You've already got the smart meter there monitoring the electricity supply to your house so why are you trying to monitor for power cuts by plugging things into your washing machine? I can't think of a single use case where wanting to have the washing machine connected to the internet is useful to me. And having it remotely turned off by the power company does not qualify as "useful to me".
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Jan 17, 2017 17:25
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the meter knows if the house has lost power, not the appliance, dumbass. look up peak load and stop being stupid.
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Jan 17, 2017 17:27
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BangersInMyKnickers posted:the meter knows if the house has lost power, not the appliance, dumbass. look up peak load and stop being stupid. Genuinely still not seeing how the washing machine's ethernet port has anything to do with a smart meter being able to detect powercuts. The smart meter is already plugged directly into the power supply, surely? Why does the washing machine having an ethernet port help in any way? A smart meter reporting electricity usage via the internet makes sense. A smart meter reporting blackouts via a dedicated cellular network seems a bit over complicated but sure I guess the utility company gets to do the cost benefit of detecting blackouts a bit quicker vs maintaining a cellular network vs "you can't have a smart meter because you don't have cell signal in your basement where the electricity meter is" The power company being able to remotely turn off my washing machine seems like the only thing this ethernet port could facilitate. That doesn't sound like a thing I want. Chalks fucked around with this message at 17:38 on Jan 17, 2017 |
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Jan 17, 2017 17:33
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but what if you get a 5% discount on your power costs
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Jan 17, 2017 17:46
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sorry to disappoint with a relatively lame post and no eyepyramid update, but the opera 12 source code has just been leaked: https://github.com/prestocore/browser already dmca'd lol but mirrored here: https://bitbucket.org/prestocore-fan/presto/ it's out and about! if you're still using opera 12 for some goddamn reason (not even I am) it's time to quit it for good
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Jan 17, 2017 17:47
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ymgve posted:but what if you get a 5% discount on your power costs I imagine having my poo poo remotely turned off would reduce my electricity bills as well. It's upsides all round.
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Jan 17, 2017 17:47
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Chalks posted:Genuinely still not seeing how the washing machine's ethernet port has anything to do with a smart meter being able to detect powercuts. The smart meter is already plugged directly into the power supply, surely? Why does the washing machine having an ethernet port help in any way? it's literally not an ethernet port, it just has the same shape. it's some sort of serial port that you connect up to a device that actually interfaces with the smart meter and through that the utility's network. the connection allows for optional controls that help change power load. again, the idea behind it is that you'd eventually have all your appliances hooked up to it including hvac, but even only having one or two appliances controllable, across a bunch of households, could be useful to the utility company. for power saving on clothes washer, you'd probably be able to set it so it waits to go into a spin cycle at times of peak load or something. after all, just letting the clothes soak for a little bit longer isn't going to hurt anything.
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Jan 17, 2017 17:54
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fishmech posted:it's literally not an ethernet port, it just has the same shape. it's some sort of serial port that you connect up to a device that actually interfaces with the smart meter and through that the utility's network. It can also be used to identify what's drawing the most power and when. So setting aside the utility company being able to control devices during peak load, it helps you as a consumer determine better times to run power hungry devices to save money.
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Jan 17, 2017 17:58
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fishmech posted:it's literally not an ethernet port, it just has the same shape. In that case the "What Is The Ethernet Port For On The Back Of The WF457ARGSWR/A2 Front Load Washer?" page is getting a resounding "no" to the "was this content helpful?" question.
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Jan 17, 2017 18:01
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Chalks posted:In that case the "What Is The Ethernet Port For On The Back Of The WF457ARGSWR/A2 Front Load Washer?" page is getting a resounding "no" to the "was this content helpful?" question. it just looks like an ethernet port, there isn't any ethernet functionality. but someone trying to find out what it's for is going to assume it's an ethernet port, so that's why it's in the page title
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Jan 17, 2017 18:07
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the idea of the government controlling your washing machine so that it doesnt use too much electricity is such a perfect combination of computers, government surveillance and communism that I want these things to be active now just to watch republican's heads explode. we live in the most mundane cyberpunk dystopia ever
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Jan 17, 2017 18:09
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hackbunny posted:sorry to disappoint with a relatively lame post and no eyepyramid update, but the opera 12 source code has just been leaked: shadowban all opera users, especially the ones changing user-agent
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Jan 17, 2017 18:10
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Chalks posted:My battery powered washing machine is going to have trouble accessing the internet during a power cut since my router is not also battery powered. Wouldn't the power company have their own meter to tell them this anyway Efb: BangersInMyKnickers posted:the meter knows if the house has lost power, not the appliance, dumbass. look up peak load and stop being stupid.
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Jan 17, 2017 18:13
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Wiggly Wayne DDS posted:you mean it's time to switch to a 2017 browser when OpenOpera releases p sure the SSL settings already break opera 12
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Jan 17, 2017 18:20
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fishmech posted:it just looks like an ethernet port, there isn't any ethernet functionality. but someone trying to find out what it's for is going to assume it's an ethernet port, so that's why it's in the page title Also their answer says it's there to detect power outages, which we seem to have established it doesn't do. Well I guess it more implies it's to do with that, their answer being more of a general description of what the SmartGrid does rather than what difference it would make if I unplugged that cable. Chalks fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Jan 17, 2017 |
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Jan 17, 2017 18:52
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Powaqoatse posted:goddamn youre amazing no I'm really not but thanks anyway btw there is no writeup yet, and all my contacts have gone silent so I guess they won't give updates outside of official channels from now on. everything you'll read here from me is an Official SA Forums Exclusive™ (tagline: "Where your  count")spankmeister posted:Did you try de4dot? (and then ilspy) no! but I will now. I have to redo my work from scratch anyway I'm not too familiar with .net reversing, basically I tried to load the sample in ida pro, ida gave up due to "corrupted" metadata, and I literally turned to a wikipedia search for ".net decompiler", and found ilspy and dotpeek. they both have their strengths and weaknesses (eg. ilspy supports vb.net, but dotpeek doesn't poo poo the bed as much), and neither is quite as good as java decompilers like procyon and (  ) jad. they recommended I try dnspy to edit things like the invalid symbol names before running the assembly through a decompiler, but if a tool can do it automatically, even betterI have time to spare and I'm running out of interesting cars to buy in gran turismo 6, so I'll give it another shot. stay tuned ynohtna posted:hrm, i think you need to spend a few days gently meditating on the purity of procrastination I'm lazy but patient and I can do repetitive chores for hours no problem. the non-lazy alternative is finding or writing a symbolic execution engine that supports .net and p-invoked native code, because I imagine that crypto routines are native. alternatively hand-coding hooks for all external routines. and that's  e: crazysim posted:i should add there's a de4dot integrated/engine replacement of ilspy called dnspy oooh so much to learn hackbunny fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Jan 17, 2017 |
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Jan 17, 2017 19:16
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Ur Getting Fatter posted:the idea of the government controlling your washing machine so that it doesnt use too much electricity is such a perfect combination of computers, government surveillance and communism that I want these things to be active now just to watch republican's heads explode. in the us it's not the government, it's the utility i have https://www.fpl.com/save/programs/on-call.html for my a/c
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Jan 17, 2017 19:17
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Chalks posted:So it's not plugged into my washing machine in order to do anything with power cuts at all but rather so the power company can remotely turn off my washing machine if too many other people are boiling the kettle? i would like to sign up to be the guy at the power company who decides who lives comfortably and who must deal with soggy half-dried clothes
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Jan 17, 2017 19:19
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ate all the Oreos posted:i would like to sign up to be the guy at the power company who decides who lives comfortably and who must deal with soggy half-dried clothes the reason to have a plug on the washer instead of just a box that cuts the power to it is to allow the washer to say "i'm full of wet clothes, cut someone else"
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Jan 17, 2017 19:20
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anyway target was selling smart bulbs for a reasonable price so i got a two pack to gently caress around with, good thing too cuz i accidentally fried one of them trying to get some debug output on a serial port i found  so far they look pretty boring, it uses BTLE instead of wifi so it probably won't be running any lightbulb botnets any time soon, oh well
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Jan 17, 2017 19:22
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Cocoa Crispies posted:the reason to have a plug on the washer instead of just a box that cuts the power to it is to allow the washer to say "i'm full of wet clothes, cut someone else" someone else's washer wouldn't be using power if it wasn't full of clothes though, if the point is to save power you'd want to kill the things using the most power, like during the spin cycle, or someone using the dryer, etc.
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Jan 17, 2017 19:23
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Cocoa Crispies posted:the reason to have a plug on the washer instead of just a box that cuts the power to it is to allow the washer to say "i'm full of wet clothes, cut someone else" so basically the only time it is reasonable to cut power is when the washer is idle gotta chase those 1-5 watt savings
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Jan 17, 2017 19:29
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ate all the Oreos posted:someone else's washer wouldn't be using power if it wasn't full of clothes though, if the point is to save power you'd want to kill the things using the most power, like during the spin cycle, or someone using the dryer, etc. The whole thing about delaying the spin cycle that fishmech posted does sound pretty clever. On the other hand, given the choice between "letting the power company interfere with my daily life" and "not plugging the smart cable in"...
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Jan 17, 2017 19:29
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Well I can see it's usefulness when we move to the "smart grid" and start buying and selling power at spot prices. You might want to delay that spin cycle until the spot price drops.
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Jan 17, 2017 19:35
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ate all the Oreos posted:someone else's washer wouldn't be using power if it wasn't full of clothes though, if the point is to save power you'd want to kill the things using the most power, like during the spin cycle, or someone using the dryer, etc. The other idea is I set the washer to wash my clothes and it can wait 20 minutes to start til after peak or whatever
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Jan 17, 2017 19:40
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obviously (read: hopefully) its not going to mean that the power company will just tell your washing machine to gently caress off mid-cycle. however, nearby here is a smart grid tower and it only applies to hot water / heating and such and apparently doesn't always work very well and parts of the tower cant take a shower in the morning. I guess trusting others to control these aspects of your life will become annoying quick. It'd be a fun experiment if there's a way to snoop on the data that's interchanged in that tower. having said that, it may be useful for countries with a deficit in power production, trading some convenience for actually having light etc just some thoughts thanks for reading, though
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Jan 17, 2017 19:41
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Chalks posted:The whole thing about delaying the spin cycle that fishmech posted does sound pretty clever. that's why it needs always-on internet connectivity to run, you're not thinking like a proper IoT designer anyway i hope the power company publishes data on which houses they mark for smart-endarkening or whatever so someone can make a lovely heat map that suspiciously shows rich peoples houses never being affected
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Jan 17, 2017 19:49
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ate all the Oreos posted:that's why it needs always-on internet connectivity to run, you're not thinking like a proper IoT designer I can't wait to log into my neighbors washing machine and shut it off while I'm trying to sleep.
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Jan 17, 2017 20:12
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hackbunny posted:the malware exfiltrates data by sending e-mails and uses a commercial component to do so, which requires a license code to unlock i saw this on twitter but had no idea there was so much more to the story, thanks for the posts
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Jan 17, 2017 20:14
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can't wait for the state-sponsored malware that infects the smartgrid and marks the hottest day of the year as "off-peak". nationwide panic as millions of washers and dryers start their spin cycles simultaneously and bring down the whole grid
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Jan 17, 2017 20:32
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when i was a kid my piano teacher lived on a farm and they had this rural electric service with a peak-hours discount plan. the way it worked was they had a little monitoring box in the wall of a central room in the house. the box would beep at them if they were using "too much" energy during peak times, and if you were over the threshold for too long it would start charging you more. so my teacher's kids had the task of running around the house when the beep happened and turning off all unused lights and stuff until the meters on the box went back down below the threshold one of the goals of smart grid is basically to do this with no active human involvement. like it makes sense from the utility's point of view to think in terms of (e.g.) "we're having load issues and there are 3000 active washing machines in this area of our grid. send some staggered delays between the rinse and spin cycles to reduce load" or whatever. but there are so many potential problems with technology like this, both practical and ethical. on the practical side it's going to cost a fortune to integrate extra chips and code into appliances in order to do this stuff with any kind of reliability. and on the ethical side it's just a huge tangle of problems in tons of different areas, such as privacy, due process, and discrimination
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Jan 17, 2017 20:33
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Ur Getting Fatter posted:can't wait for the state-sponsored malware that infects the smartgrid and marks the hottest day of the year as "off-peak". nationwide panic as millions of washers and dryers start their spin cycles simultaneously and bring down the whole grid poo poo you can do that with the regular grid and scada
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Jan 17, 2017 20:37
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Lutha Mahtin posted:due process every load of laundry deserves its day in court
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Jan 17, 2017 20:41
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spankmeister posted:Well I can see it's usefulness when we move to the "smart grid" and start buying and selling power at spot prices. You might want to delay that spin cycle until the spot price drops. I'm looking forward to renting access to a cloud AI to calculate the optimal time to wash my pants.
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Jan 17, 2017 20:51
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ate all the Oreos posted:someone else's washer wouldn't be using power if it wasn't full of clothes though, if the point is to save power you'd want to kill the things using the most power, like during the spin cycle, or someone using the dryer, etc. you would simply delay moving between phases of the wash cycle for instance, or with a dryer you might tell it to use a lower heat mode for a little bit longer to take the edge off the power usage. most people aren't going to particularly notice or care that their overall wash cycle has a chance of taking 10-15 minutes longer. you're aiming to add up a couple watts here and a 100 watts there across a whole region until you're succesfully reducing local grid load by kilowatts or megawatts, which can be enough to not need to start up a peaker plant
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Jan 17, 2017 20:53
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ate all the Oreos posted:anyway target was selling smart bulbs for a reasonable price so i got a two pack to gently caress around with, good thing too cuz i accidentally fried one of them trying to get some debug output on a serial port i found you should buy bulbs off aliexpress they are gr8 and go for around $4/ea shipped. Look for the "edison" style LED and make sure they support 110/120VAC and they're spitting out around 100lum per watt. Some of the shittier ones only do around 60~ which is crap.
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Jan 17, 2017 20:54
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