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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Shooting her in the face, from more than 10 meters away. Yeah the excuses people come up with for losing a fight to a 200hp class with almost no ability to fight beyond 10m out are kind of insane Fight the Symmetra, kill the Symmetra, it is not difficult just stop missing all your drat shots or else pick Winston.
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Jan 17, 2017 20:58
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No no, I get the fact that he's a professional player and Top 500 and all that jazz, but the clearly new account was still at 2400~ as a season high and then "somehow" ended up at 600 SR. Either way, someone had to ruin some games for this "experiment." Also, the SECOND GAME I hear him making GBS threads on some McCree because his FtH was too far back because, you know, he's an SR 600 player and probably either new or bad. It just kinda puts a bad taste in my mouth to watch, personally.
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Jan 17, 2017 20:59
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He never really directly engaged with anyone in game chat. The only time he really called anyone out on stream was when they were being salty or accusing him of hacking or something and even then he was mostly just laughing at them.
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Jan 17, 2017 20:59
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I'd assume the account was either gifted to him by someone else or he tried to throw his placements and didn't do it hard enough. so yea he, or someone else, threw some games to get the account to where it is
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Jan 17, 2017 21:02
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ToastyPotato posted:He never really directly engaged with anyone in game chat. The only time he really called anyone out on stream was when they were being salty or accusing him of hacking or something and even then he was mostly just laughing at them. Oh sure, I haven't seen him be toxic to anyone directly, but it's still kinda lovely in my eyes when some new McCree just doesn't do well for whatever reason and this professional streamer goes "Hey chat, look at how bad this guy is." It just seems kinda what a bully does. I'm not passing judgment on anyone who IS enjoying it, but for me it just kinda seems mean spirited.
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Jan 17, 2017 21:03
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yea it's not really fun watching it for any length of time except to see how many weird restrictions he places on himself as handicaps. the twitch chat is just "these guys are bad lol" and that's just gonna happen when you throw one of the best players in the world against the worst players that said, the point isn't to poo poo on these people but to show that you will climb (and easily) if you actually deserve to climb. iddqd isn't getting stuck at any point like people that believe in elo hell would believe he would because he can basically take everyone on the other team by himself
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Jan 17, 2017 21:06
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In iddqd's case, there was no craft to the reverse hanjo style, no sense of marvel. He may as well have been taking out bots at an industrial speed. Like the ones where he went battle mercy were some of the better ones because enemies would bronze-rank on his screen for more than a picosecond.
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Jan 17, 2017 21:07
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At that point he was just flabbergasted on how bad the technical skills of a lot of players were. It has probably been a long time since he's encountered players with that little technical skill- like since he played doom. Yeah, he calls him out on his stream about it, not maliciously, but more as a incredulous 'these people exist'
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Jan 17, 2017 21:07
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Its not like I believe in Elo hell or whatever, but him being able to easily climb ranks as a top 500 player proves exactly nothing.
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Jan 17, 2017 21:08
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it does because if it did, even he'd get stuck at some point and take ages to get anywhere. but he won't because that's dumb
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Jan 17, 2017 21:10
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I don't think it was meant to prove anything really, it's just funny and gets him viewers. He had a ridiculous sub train going while he was traversing bronze, so hey it worked and now he made a lot of money off of it! I guess that's what it proved - he had a good idea to make money
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Jan 17, 2017 21:11
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Manatee Cannon posted:it does because if it did, even he'd get stuck at some point and take ages to get anywhere. but he won't because that's dumb It just means one of the top players in the world is able to overcome the teamwork of bads, which doesnt mean anything until he gets higher. And even if I was better than the rest of my team in Plat, Ill never be good enough to completely overcome 6 other people and pull out a win myself. Only the best of the best could do that. There would be a point where youre better than the rest of the team but not enough to overcome their flaws to create a victory. Im probably right where I should be though. KoB fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Jan 17, 2017 |
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Jan 17, 2017 21:13
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KoB posted:There would be a point where youre better than the rest of the team but not enough to overcome their flaws to create a victory. Doesn't that just mean it's made an even game?
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Jan 17, 2017 21:21
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Manatee Cannon posted:
It's extremely this. Streamers have proven over and over that elo hell doesn't exist and that if you just click heads better you can easily climb. Iddqd said he will probably stop doing gimmicks around 3500 since he won't be able to get away with it anymore. And by the looks of it, he won't even have to scream at his team to group up to get there. It's made me feel more chill about my high silver/low rank games. Even at masters people will slam pick dumb heroes and get salty at each other. Getting out of the metallic ranks isn't going to make my games more like tournament play with cash on the line, it just means I'll be punished more for trying to be heroic since my enemies won't miss my head as often. I get to just dunk on people sometimes.
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Jan 17, 2017 21:31
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Elo hell is just playing in your actual skill bracket, except you think you should be higher. One more good player on a smurf account ain't gonna prove that to anyone.
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Jan 17, 2017 21:33
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Yes. But people that believe in the concept of Elo hell now have less footing to stand on. I mean, sure he's GM, but if you think you belong in plat/diamond, but you're in silver/gold you'll be mimicking what he's doing to an extent.
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Jan 17, 2017 21:39
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I thought of elo hell as more like if you are just slightly better than your SR and the collective dead weight of Genji/Hanzo slams would work like quicksand. And as bad as some people in this game can be, the OW fan base is kittens compared to the LoL/Dota communities. Toxic isn't even the word, those people are mean and salty on a nuclear level. Also muting annoying voices/little kids/angry OW bros is effortless
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Jan 17, 2017 21:39
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As far as rank tanking goes, did he do it on his own or with a six-stack? Bacontotem switched to deranking with premade teams specifically to avoid the whole "one guy purposely throwing with five teammates trying to win" thing.
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Jan 17, 2017 21:41
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Kai Tave posted:As far as rank tanking goes, did he do it on his own or with a six-stack? Bacontotem switched to deranking with premade teams specifically to avoid the whole "one guy purposely throwing with five teammates trying to win" thing. I can respect that. I still take issue with deliberately tanking your ranking just to get easier games, but account boosting has been around since the beginning of competitive online games, so it's impossible to avoid. At least they aren't ruining games for people who aren't in on it.
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Jan 17, 2017 21:48
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Willie Tomg posted:Yeah the excuses people come up with for losing a fight to a 200hp class with almost no ability to fight beyond 10m out are kind of insane I mean I understand why it happens, most people have such horrible aim that they don't do 120+ effective DPS. You just gotta recognize this about yourself instead of blaming Symmetra.
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Jan 17, 2017 22:03
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Bust Rodd posted:I thought of elo hell as more like if you are just slightly better than your SR and the collective dead weight of Genji/Hanzo slams would work like quicksand. That's not how most people use it, and conceptually it doesn't really make sense. There's no way to tell if you're "slightly" better than your current SR. It's only obvious that you're playing much worse players when you're actually playing people who are much worse than you. If you're slightly below or above your actual skill level in SR, that's not Elo hell, that's as correct as your SR can reasonably be.
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Jan 17, 2017 22:26
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The concept of "ELO Hell" is hilarious because almost every player in it is in the high silvers low golds. My fiance is right in that zone and if I ever play on her account it is a hilarious face roll, if you can't get out of that level it is where you belong, not the Hanzo on your team's fault
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Jan 17, 2017 22:41
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Bust Rodd posted:I thought of elo hell as more like if you are just slightly better than your SR and the collective dead weight of Genji/Hanzo slams would work like quicksand.
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Jan 17, 2017 22:41
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ELO hell is a poorly defined concept that may or may not be disproven by a top 500 player trouncing terrible players depending on your definition. gently caress people can't even seem to agree on what pay to win means/encompasses.
Duck and Cover fucked around with this message at 22:50 on Jan 17, 2017 |
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Jan 17, 2017 22:47
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Bust Rodd posted:I thought of elo hell as more like if you are just slightly better than your SR and the collective dead weight of Genji/Hanzo slams would work like quicksand. There's nothing that puts worse players on your team more often than the enemy team. Because of this, over time, given a decent sample size of games, you will always end up at the correct SR.
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Jan 17, 2017 22:49
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iddqd carrying himself solo to GM doesn't really prove that a kind of Elo hell doesn't exist. It just means he has the skill to bruteforce the system and carry almost any team to victory. A player could theoretically be trapped for a much longer than expected period of time in an SR ranking below their level simply because they string together long streaks of losses due to leavers, trolling, simple bad luck etc. and then climbs back in a piecemeal but reasonable fashion, such as a at 55% win-rate, only to string losses together again. Even if you maintain a winning average overall, you can still stay in roughly the same place depending on how those wins and losses clump together. This kind of thing is more likely in an unpredictable environment, for example a particular SR area where there are statistically more griefers, smurfs, leavers, cheaters - anything that can step in from outside the regular matchmaking algorithm and mess your game up.
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Jan 17, 2017 22:52
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You will have games where your opponents are so much better than your teammates that you can't carry. You will have games where your opponents are so much worse than your teammates that you can't lose. Those games don't really matter. Like, yeah, they'll change your SR, but they don't give you useful insight. Focus on the roughly even matches, where individual players on either side are capable of turning the tide. Those matches are your real chance to prove you belong at a higher SR, and if you can't win 'em, guess whaaaaat.
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Jan 17, 2017 22:58
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Manatee Cannon posted:I'd assume the account was either gifted to him by someone else or he tried to throw his placements and didn't do it hard enough. so yea he, or someone else, threw some games to get the account to where it is if you look it's current rank 699, season high ~2500, but only 7 minutes of games played. I don't get it at all unless season high can also refer to previous seasons 
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Jan 17, 2017 22:59
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Jeza posted:iddqd carrying himself solo to GM doesn't really prove that a kind of Elo hell doesn't exist. It just means he has the skill to bruteforce the system and carry almost any team to victory. A player could theoretically be trapped for a much longer than expected period of time in an SR ranking below their level simply because they string together long streaks of losses due to leavers, trolling, simple bad luck etc. and then climbs back in a piecemeal but reasonable fashion, such as a at 55% win-rate, only to string losses together again. I feel like if you have a 55% winrate the matchmaker has more or less done it's job getting you to the right ballpark
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Jan 17, 2017 23:00
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ImPureAwesome posted:I feel like if you have a 55% winrate the matchmaker has more or less done it's job getting you to the right ballpark Actually for a solo player that winrate is extremely high. Any moderately good matchmaking system will narrow you down to like 50-51% eventually. If your winrate is 55%, you're going up.
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Jan 17, 2017 23:03
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yeah, but "going up slowly" is not what ELO hell means, it means "I'm trapped lower than I should be and cannot get out due to poo poo teammates"
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Jan 17, 2017 23:04
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A GM carrying himself to GM rank from the bottom is equally as useful at disproving ELO Hell as a Diamond carrying themselves to Diamond. Being a GM, he will do it faster, but it still completely proves the notion that you will settle to where you belong.
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Jan 17, 2017 23:07
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IronicDongz posted:yeah, but "going up slowly" is not what ELO hell means, it means "I'm trapped lower than I should be and cannot get out due to poo poo teammates" I mean, you can get kind of trapped. Not permanently, but for what could amount to a pretty long time. Like, most of the time it won't happen to somebody, but for certain people it will. And it will happen statistically in certain brackets. For example in CS:GO, Silver hell, is kind of a real deal. Like, I could carry my way out of Silver with a starter pistol and no armour every round. But for a player who deserves to be in the next bracket up, say, they can remain stuck there for a long time because it is full of derankers, smurfs, and leavers.
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Jan 17, 2017 23:08
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Jeza posted:iddqd carrying himself solo to GM doesn't really prove that a kind of Elo hell doesn't exist. It just means he has the skill to bruteforce the system and carry almost any team to victory. A player could theoretically be trapped for a much longer than expected period of time in an SR ranking below their level simply because they string together long streaks of losses due to leavers, trolling, simple bad luck etc. and then climbs back in a piecemeal but reasonable fashion, such as a at 55% win-rate, only to string losses together again. iddqd is just a more extreme example of exactly what you're describing. He can easily have a 100% win-rate through low plat, likely. And then as he gets closer and closer to his actual skill, his win-rate will slow down until he basically stabilizes at his "true" skill. The fact that his "true" skill is 4500 and someone else's is 2500 doesn't mean the 2500 players' experience is fundamentally different, it just means they have a different ability level than him. Seriously, anyone who thinks they're in Elo hell, try throwing games until you drop a few hundred points from the level you're "stuck" at. This is easy to do and it becomes immediately apparent just how big a difference 300-500 SR makes. Anyone can easily carry at 500SR below their "true" rating. e: This, ToastyPotato posted:A GM carrying himself to GM rank from the bottom is equally as useful at disproving ELO Hell as a Diamond carrying themselves to Diamond. Being a GM, he will do it faster, but it still completely proves the notion that you will settle to where you belong.
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Jan 17, 2017 23:08
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Jeza posted:Actually for a solo player that winrate is extremely high. Any moderately good matchmaking system will narrow you down to like 50-51% eventually. If your winrate is 55%, you're going up. Sure, eventually. I don't disagree, but the system is more focused on trying to keep iddqd from playing you for more than a few games, not someone slightly better than you so I think it mostly does it's job
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Jan 17, 2017 23:08
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Almost every argument in favor of a video game's matchmaking system made by people outside of the design team is functioning on a sugar-coated and vaguely condescending notion that "it works, because it does."
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Jan 17, 2017 23:12
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ImPureAwesome posted:Sure, eventually. I don't disagree, but the system is more focused on trying to keep iddqd from playing you for more than a few games, not someone slightly better than you so I think it mostly does it's job I mean, I think OW's MM system is pretty solid. I'm not complaining. I don't think Elo hell is a huge deal in this game, or really any other, but people seem to think a good player carrying themselves out of a terrible bracket proves that if you're better than your rank you will already be that rank. While true on an infinite timescale, in reality there can be a lot of things that delay that for what can probably seem like an agonisingly long time.
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Jan 17, 2017 23:12
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I just like videos of sub-2000 SR playing. I try to imagine what the players are thinking: like that Ana in the first few seconds of iddqd's video that purposely tries to avoid shooting him and doesn't even toss her grenade just to make him go away. Was Widowmaker slampicked so the player had to choose the next best sniper? Did they really not want to be healer but no one was in the support role?
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Jan 17, 2017 23:15
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The Walrus posted:if you look it's current rank 699, season high ~2500, but only 7 minutes of games played. I don't get it at all unless season high can also refer to previous seasons could be someone doing nothing but leaving games as soon as they start. maybe it's possible to spread them out far enough so you don't get perma banned.
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Jan 17, 2017 23:27
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The Walrus posted:if you look it's current rank 699, season high ~2500, but only 7 minutes of games played. I don't get it at all unless season high can also refer to previous seasons That's on play vs. Ai
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Jan 17, 2017 23:33
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