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Captain Rufus posted:I think you are taking it all a little too serious and personal dude. Serious maybe, personal no. Nintendo has made some good decisions and some seriously bad ones and I have no personal stake in their success. I just find the GW comparisons to be absurd and a lot of the flak they get to be unjustified. I just like keeping perspective and being critical of actual mistakes rather than perceived ones.
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Jan 18, 2017 06:50
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Also lol if after seeing the Switch reveal if you think the 3DS is going away.
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Jan 18, 2017 07:44
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Atlas Hugged posted:The point with IS doing Fire Emblem over Advance Wars is just a question of resources. They can only really be working on one or the other at any given time and when Awakening did gangbusters they went whole-hog into that franchise. Had Awakening failed, it was supposedly going to be the last Fire Emblem game so they would have been free to go back to Advance Wars at that point had they wanted to. The last Advance Wars title also sold miserably, so there wasn't a lot motivating them to return to the series. Also important to keep in mind, Intelligent Systems makes Nintendo's devkits and does a lot of assisting other teams with the new hardware. They're usually too busy to work on their own games. Also Nintendo makes games that are not expensive and people enjoy playing so I don't think they're anything like GW??
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Jan 18, 2017 08:05
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Intelligent Systems is also weird because they're not technically part of Nintendo, but all they do is work on Nintendo software and hardware and their offices have been either inside Nintendo hq or next to it. It almost seems like it was a proof of concept for the type of relationship Nintendo wanted with Retro before just buying them outright.
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Jan 18, 2017 08:16
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faaaaaaaaaaaaart
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Jan 18, 2017 10:11
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http://www.necromunda-underhivewars.com/# Necromunda video game is happening, though theres no details at all yet.
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Jan 18, 2017 11:49
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Remember when Palladium released a Rifts game on the NGage?
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Jan 18, 2017 12:36
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PrinnySquadron posted:http://www.necromunda-underhivewars.com/ gently caress them. That is the only stuff I would ever consider buying if they brought back the actual boxed game. I'm weak, but man necromunda was actually fun and not a 8 hour shitfest
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Jan 18, 2017 13:01
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Vermintide is not mentioned in the OP as a good GW-licensed vidya game. I'm sure this is a simple oversight that will be quickly fixed
Zephro fucked around with this message at 13:16 on Jan 18, 2017 |
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Jan 18, 2017 13:06
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El Estrago Bonito posted:Also lol if after seeing the Switch reveal if you think the 3DS is going away. I don't, which is why I'm not interested in the Switch.
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Jan 18, 2017 13:08
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Not a viking posted:YouTube's Tabletop Minion almost gets it regards to GW I really like this guy, most of his videos are related to painting and modeling in general. He also has a really nice voice. I forgive him for Giving Money To Games Workshop.
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Jan 18, 2017 15:07
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Geisladisk posted:I really like this guy, most of his videos are related to painting and modeling in general. He also has a really nice voice. I forgive him for Giving Money To Games Workshop. As a person on camera, he works really well and is extremely relaxing to watch because of his voice and overall mannerisms. But he had some epically bad white knighting videos right after AoS was released that were utter trash.
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Jan 18, 2017 15:12
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Drone posted:As a person on camera, he works really well and is extremely relaxing to watch because of his voice and overall mannerisms. But he had some epically bad white knighting videos right after AoS was released that were utter trash. I've given up on him. It's either all GW is still good and fine, you should play AoS, or else really vague poo poo like "Is getting mad ruining your gaming experience?" I guess its tough to come up with relevant poo poo to say all the time, but it just got boring.
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Jan 18, 2017 15:23
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Atlas Hugged posted:Serious maybe, personal no. Nintendo has made some good decisions and some seriously bad ones and I have no personal stake in their success. I just find the GW comparisons to be absurd and a lot of the flak they get to be unjustified. I just like keeping perspective and being critical of actual mistakes rather than perceived ones. I agree that the GW comparisons are absurd; GW is still the market leader in a niche market, while Nintendo is fighting to stay relevant in a massive growing market. And GW's game products are much, much worse than Nintendo's games. But I never said that Nintendo handing off one of its 3 biggest franchises to Retro was a mistake, just that it was emblematic of the amount of regard they had for the franchise--that would never have occurred with a major console mario or zelda release (again, handhelds are a different story). Nintendo was pleasantly surprised by how Prime turned out and even more surprised when it turned out to be one of the best-selling games on the Gamecube. You're framing this as some calculated move that Nintendo always knew would pay off and not what it was--Nintendo didn't view the Metroid franchise as a huge asset following less-than-blockbuster sales for Super Metroid, so they were comfortable farming it out, and that's also the reason why we haven't seen a real new Metroid since Other M ruined things for everyone. Otherwise, Nintendo's flak is completely justified--they've spent the last 20 years throwing gimmick after gimmick at their hardware, hoping something would stick but their real success has continued to be making amazing first-party games that everyone can enjoy. This is why even when the Wii sold a billion units, no one bought any games for it outside of 3-4 excellent first-party titles. You'd be hard-pressed to tell me that sticking with cartridges, red 3d, two screens, motion controls*, 3D, or the soon-to-be-abandoned second gamepad were big hits and great ideas. They've continued to stay in the game because of their amazing first-party titles and we'd all be better off if they dropped console development from their repertoire and just worked on first-party titles and handhelds. *The most hilarious success of the Wii may have been convincing Microsoft and Sony to sink millions of dollars into the development of failed motion control products
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Jan 18, 2017 15:31
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Two screens is actually cool and good. I love it. Look at how tiny one screen is when our phones have become larger for more screen space.
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Jan 18, 2017 15:42
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Chill la Chill posted:Two screens is actually cool and good. I love it. Look at how tiny one screen is when our phones have become larger for more screen space. Having two screens is nice, but it is completely unnecessary. Most of the time all you get on the second screen is a persistent menu. Also it's hard for me to not think about the fact that DS/3DS games will one day need to be emulated on devices that have a single screen.
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Jan 18, 2017 15:45
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TheChirurgeon posted:Having two screens is nice, but it is completely unnecessary. Most of the time all you get on the second screen is a persistent menu. Works pretty well on a 16:10 display in portrait mode.
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Jan 18, 2017 15:48
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TheChirurgeon posted:I agree that the GW comparisons are absurd; GW is still the market leader in a niche market, while Nintendo is fighting to stay relevant in a massive growing market. And GW's game products are much, much worse than Nintendo's games. But I never said that Nintendo handing off one of its 3 biggest franchises to Retro was a mistake, just that it was emblematic of the amount of regard they had for the franchise--that would never have occurred with a major console mario or zelda release (again, handhelds are a different story). Nintendo was pleasantly surprised by how Prime turned out and even more surprised when it turned out to be one of the best-selling games on the Gamecube. You're framing this as some calculated move that Nintendo always knew would pay off and not what it was--Nintendo didn't view the Metroid franchise as a huge asset following less-than-blockbuster sales for Super Metroid, so they were comfortable farming it out, and that's also the reason why we haven't seen a real new Metroid since Other M ruined things for everyone. I think where we're disagreeing is that I do see it as a calculated move where you see it as them getting lucky. Nintendo doesn't throw money away because it does answer to its investors. It's not like GW where the investors don't understand the industry and are happy to read a highly skewed financial report every few months. The president of the company or his representative regularly have to go in front of the share holders and answer questions. I guess neither of us has any real evidence to support our interpretation since it's all circumstantial. You're saying that an untested group was given a property that Nintendo wasn't overly concerned with and the results surprised everyone. I'm saying that a guy who really understands video games made a personal recommendation to give a headhunted team a chance based on a tech demo that impressed him and Nintendo committed to purchasing the company before the game released because they were confident that it would be successful. Where I'll give ground is that I agree that Nintendo probably didn't see it as a huge loss if Retro did fail to do something good with Metroid because it already wasn't their most popular franchise. But I also don't see that as them throwing it aside without a care. It was a calculated risk to test the team before giving them something more valuable, which ended up being Donkey Kong. I don't disagree on your assessment that Nintendo has been unsuccessful in getting most of their gimmicks to stick, but I think some of them actually do improve the gaming experience. Their first real gimmick was the dual screen on the DS which I honestly think has been successful. I'm kind of dreading the Switch replacing the 3DS because I really like the clamshell design and the functionality you get with 2 screens. A lot of the early DS games didn't quite know what to do it with it, but almost everything I've played on the 3DS uses it well. Likewise, I am super in love with the gamepad and the functionality you get with it. I think it could have been a permanent addition to Nintendo console gaming if they hadn't bungled the Wii U's marketing so badly. Some of the features like being able to watch Netflix or play games on a smaller screen when I need to be away from the TV are going to stick around because of the Switch's portability, but losing a secondary display is a step back for a lot of franchises and you lose ways to interact with games and the TV without it.
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Jan 18, 2017 15:58
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TheChirurgeon posted:Having two screens is nice, but it is completely unnecessary. Most of the time all you get on the second screen is a persistent menu. Having a dozen buttons on a controller is nice but completely unnecessary. When it's used right it greatly improves the gaming experience and removing it is a loss that I'm sad about.
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Jan 18, 2017 16:02
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Zephro posted:Vermintide is not mentioned in the OP as a good GW-licensed vidya game. I'm sure this is a simple oversight that will be quickly fixed Yeah, sure, okay buddy.
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Jan 18, 2017 16:05
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Atlas Hugged posted:Retro and Metroid Yeah, fair enough. quote:I don't disagree on your assessment that Nintendo has been unsuccessful in getting most of their gimmicks to stick, but I think some of them actually do improve the gaming experience. Their first real gimmick was the dual screen on the DS which I honestly think has been successful. I'm kind of dreading the Switch replacing the 3DS because I really like the clamshell design and the functionality you get with 2 screens. A lot of the early DS games didn't quite know what to do it with it, but almost everything I've played on the 3DS uses it well. Likewise, I am super in love with the gamepad and the functionality you get with it. I think it could have been a permanent addition to Nintendo console gaming if they hadn't bungled the Wii U's marketing so badly. Some of the features like being able to watch Netflix or play games on a smaller screen when I need to be away from the TV are going to stick around because of the Switch's portability, but losing a secondary display is a step back for a lot of franchises and you lose ways to interact with games and the TV without it. The clamshell design wasn't exclusive to the DS/3DS, nor did it require two screens--I still think the Gameboy Advance SP is the finest handheld Nintendo ever made (except for that baffling decision to remove the headphone jack), and it had a clamshell design. The functionality of the two screens for me would be more compelling if I felt that the second screen really got used in interesting ways. I wouldn't be upset if it was a permanent addition to Nintendo portable console gaming, but 95% of the implementations, including those on major first-party titles, are do-able without a second screen and in a way that wouldn't detract from the experience. The gamepad always felt flimsy to me and as it wasn't really portable, its major function with regard to "gaming on the go" was being able to play Wind Waker HD while pooping. Which was pretty cool, I guess. I have a phone and a tablet already, so the portable Netflix functionality isn't something I need a console for. quote:Having a dozen buttons on a controller is nice but completely unnecessary. When it's used right it greatly improves the gaming experience and removing it is a loss that I'm sad about. It varies by game, though. The reason you put 12 buttons on a controller is because many games can make use of them. Some games don't need them, but you want to be able to cover a wide variety of playstyles. I see your point, and I think the second screen helps, but unlike those buttons it also significantly increases the cost, weight, and fragility of the console, while also reducing its battery life. Look I love my 3DS but as a piece of hardware, I don't think there's much that it does that my Vita couldn't also do. The difference is that the 3DS has an amazing library and Sony forgot the Vita existed 6 years ago.
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Jan 18, 2017 16:15
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TheChirurgeon posted:Look I love my 3DS but as a piece of hardware, I don't think there's much that it does that my Vita couldn't also do. The difference is that the 3DS has an amazing library and Sony forgot the Vita existed 6 years ago. I play a lot of RPGs and having the second screen is really useful for that genre specifically. I'm sure you could do Etrian Odyssey without it, but it just wouldn't be the same. I also really liked using the gamepad as a scope in the handful of games that experiment with that. Tokyo Mirage Sessions did some cool immersion stuff by having it act as the mobile device of your player character. The game would have been basically the same without that, but it's touches like those that I think justify the console experience over the PC experience and it's why the PS4 and XBone don't have any appeal to me. Incorporating a touchscreen into console gaming is definitely here to stay though. I can't imagine what Mario Maker would be like without it.
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Jan 18, 2017 16:23
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Atlas Hugged posted:Incorporating a touchscreen into console gaming is definitely here to stay though. I can't imagine what Mario Maker would be like without it. Except the Switch doesn't have touchscreen functionality when it serves as a console. Since it's confined to the dock.
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Jan 18, 2017 16:35
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Drone posted:Except the Switch doesn't have touchscreen functionality when it serves as a console. Since it's confined to the dock. I considered this before posting the comment. For something like Mario Maker where touchscreen is basically mandatory there's going to be one of two solutions or possibly both. The first is that you just can't dock it to design levels and will have to play with it as a portable console to have access to the touchscreen. The second is that the motion controllers fill in for the touchscreen, acting more like a mouse. So you'll move a pointer on the screen and press a button to drag and drop items. I'm sure Nintendo have already considered both possibilities. When they first announced the Switch, I was really hoping that they'd emulate the Wii U gamepad's functionalities when the console was within a certain distance of the dock and it would act as a secondary screen, but I guess that would make designing games nearly impossible because what happens when you're not near the dock? The entire interface of the game would have to change.
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Jan 18, 2017 16:43
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It's almost like the Switch is an ultimately directionless and stale console from a company that has no idea what its non-Japanese market actually wants, and a futile attempt to capture lightning in a bottle like they did with the original Wii. Love my 3DS to bits though.
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Jan 18, 2017 16:47
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Atlas Hugged posted:I play a lot of RPGs and having the second screen is really useful for that genre specifically. I'm sure you could do Etrian Odyssey without it, but it just wouldn't be the same. I also really liked using the gamepad as a scope in the handful of games that experiment with that. Tokyo Mirage Sessions did some cool immersion stuff by having it act as the mobile device of your player character. The game would have been basically the same without that, but it's touches like those that I think justify the console experience over the PC experience and it's why the PS4 and XBone don't have any appeal to me. I agree on the touchscreen. That one's definitely going to stick, but that's also because well, phones. I don't particularly care for the scope implementation, since without some kind of stability compensation it ends up being a chore to get precision, which ended up being a pain in the rear end when I played the HD Zelda re-releases on the Wii U, and on handhelds it means I need a shitload more space to play than I'd prefer. I didn't play Tokyo MIrage Sessions but that sounds like a cool implementation. But one or two cool implementations don't justify the whole thing for me. Yeah it's cool to have that real estate on another screen in RPGs, but also unnecessary. But again, I like the second screen, I just wouldn't call it a resounding success or a massive step forward in portable gaming. It's cool, but if you didn't have it the 3DS would still be an amazingly good handheld. I suspect the reason most of these failed (and why I think VR will be a dud) is because they have so little connection to the total gaming experience--it's like 3D in movies--a movie being good or bad is completely independent of whether it is in 2D or 3D. It's hard to come up with a list of more than a couple of games that would have been genuinely good or bad if they had/didn't have touch controls, 3D, a second screen, voice controls, motion controls, etc. You can play a game like Half-Life 2 with a mouse and keyboard or a controller or in VR and it's still a great game. The precision of controls--being able to translate your intent into action--is more important than the method for doing so. Drone posted:Except the Switch doesn't have touchscreen functionality when it serves as a console. Since it's confined to the dock. Wait, gently caress I hadn't even considered this but of course. Hahaha oh my god what the gently caress Drone posted:It's almost like the Switch is an ultimately directionless and stale console from a company that has no idea what its non-Japanese market actually wants, and a futile attempt to capture lightning in a bottle like they did with the original Wii. It's weird to look back on the Wii now. On the one hand yeah, it was a huge success in terms of hardware sales. Nintendo grew the market by selling consoles to people who had never bought a console before. On the other hand, the game library for it was terrible, and beyond first party titles, Wii owners seldom bought games for it. It had abysmal attach rates throughout its lifespan. This was exacerbated by the fact that all those first-time console owners treated the Wii like they'd treat a board game--something you break out for a diversion occasionally, then put back on the shelf and don't think about. They weren't super-interested in buying a bunch of extra games for it and they *definitely* weren't interested in buying a new, updated version of it when the Wii U came out. Is it possible to look at it as a successful failure? That's kind of how I view the Wii. It's like the Avatar of game consoles TheChirurgeon fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Jan 18, 2017 |
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Jan 18, 2017 16:47
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TheChirurgeon posted:Wait, gently caress I hadn't even considered this but of course. Hahaha oh my god what the gently caress I think this isn't that big of a deal because they can do a simulated touch screen with the motion controls. If anything, this might be a net positive because it means they won't make the mistake of again forcing developers to jam every gimmick and feature into games and incorporation of features will be a lot more organic and appropriate. But that could also just be me being optimistic. quote:Is it possible to look at it as a successful failure? That's kind of how I view the Wii. It's like the Avatar of game consoles I think this is exactly accurate.
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Jan 18, 2017 17:02
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TheChirurgeon posted:
I think you are right, it really is up there with Monopoly, Trivial Pursuit or Cluedo (or whatever you Colonials call it. Clue?). It is that packaged experience for a family diversion. Maybe you went for the Mario Kart steering Wheel edition, or bought the Wii Fit board expansion but after that and the obligatory Wii Sport you were probably about done. Its a great product and everyone gets it, but it is less a lifestyle ecosystem thing and more a one-off purchase. The xbox thingie I cant even remember the name of is a similar deal. You buy it and a handful of similar games to keep small children distracted/pray it tires them out but the grown up games market ignores it entirely making the hardware kind of irrelevant long term. I think VR has longer legs and if the current crop of headsets makes enough money to fund a next generation then we may be on to something. I think it ultimately suffers the same challenge as motion tech though, you need more space/specific conditions to use it well. Anything that involves getting out of a chair means you need more open space in your home than most of us have, and if you are wearing an immersive headset then that space needs to be made safe and kept clear otherwise you walk into something painful or tread on the cat/dog/small child that decided to get in the way. Even if you arent getting out of the chair, being cut off from the world with cats/dogs/small children about could lead to issues.
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Jan 18, 2017 17:17
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One of the biggest problem with Nintendo is that they release hardware as a vehicle for selling their games (which they don't publish anywhere else). They've historically been difficult to work with if you are a 3rd party trying to publish with them... and why would you when the market share for the other consoles is way better anyway? So you have these niche consoles pushing Nintendo games and a company with little to no original IP generation anymore. They certainly have milked their franchises that's for sure.
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Jan 18, 2017 22:20
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Moola posted:faaaaaaaaaaaaart
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Jan 18, 2017 22:39
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Wait til they find out about scrunts
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Jan 18, 2017 22:56
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That pic is ripe for the ol' angery meme
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Jan 18, 2017 22:57
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Ugleb posted:I think VR has longer legs and if the current crop of headsets makes enough money to fund a next generation then we may be on to something. I think it ultimately suffers the same challenge as motion tech though, you need more space/specific conditions to use it well. Anything that involves getting out of a chair means you need more open space in your home than most of us have, and if you are wearing an immersive headset then that space needs to be made safe and kept clear otherwise you walk into something painful or tread on the cat/dog/small child that decided to get in the way. Even if you arent getting out of the chair, being cut off from the world with cats/dogs/small children about could lead to issues. I'm not convinced VR will amount to anything more than 3D did, as it only really has applications in gaming and pornography to begin with. On the gaming side, the experiences you can actually create in VR are very limited, based on both the restrictions of space (you don't want people wandering around their living rooms, tripping over poo poo) and potential motion sickness issues--moving and looking can cause disorientation and motion sickness. Racing games and flight games are fine, because you have a fixed position, but something simple like walking around a house causes issues when you don't move how your body expects. This is why a lot of the VR games we've seen so far resemble on-rails experiences or roller coasters, to mitigate this (Interesting story: A friend of mine was working on a VR game where you play as a person in a wheelchair, to mitigate this effect). While this can likely be fixed over time (and there are workarounds I've seen with zero-gravity movement), there's a real question as to whether or not you want to pay $600 for a device that has these limitations. The porn will stick around, though
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Jan 18, 2017 23:05
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TheChirurgeon posted:I'm not convinced VR will amount to anything more than 3D did, as it only really has applications in gaming and pornography to begin with. On the gaming side, the experiences you can actually create in VR are very limited, based on both the restrictions of space (you don't want people wandering around their living rooms, tripping over poo poo) and potential motion sickness issues--moving and looking can cause disorientation and motion sickness. Racing games and flight games are fine, because you have a fixed position, but something simple like walking around a house causes issues when you don't move how your body expects. This is why a lot of the VR games we've seen so far resemble on-rails experiences or roller coasters, to mitigate this (Interesting story: A friend of mine was working on a VR game where you play as a person in a wheelchair, to mitigate this effect). While this can likely be fixed over time (and there are workarounds I've seen with zero-gravity movement), there's a real question as to whether or not you want to pay $600 for a device that has these limitations. Actually, VR has educational and industrial uses that 3D never did. I know a guy who worked on VR software for industrial processes, that they then successfully adapted into teaching software for developmentally challenged children, and this was before Rift even had a devkit headset out for backers.
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Jan 18, 2017 23:20
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NTRabbit posted:Actually, VR has educational and industrial uses that 3D never did. I know a guy who worked on VR software for industrial processes, that they then successfully adapted into teaching software for developmentally challenged children, and this was before Rift even had a devkit headset out for backers. Yeah, that's a good point. I had forgotten about educational uses. Def see an application there. Not convinced it'll be an every-household or even most-households tech, though
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Jan 18, 2017 23:27
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TheChirurgeon posted:I agree that the GW comparisons are absurd; GW is still the market leader in a niche market, while Nintendo is fighting to stay relevant in a massive growing market. And GW's game products are much, much worse than Nintendo's games. But I never said that Nintendo handing off one of its 3 biggest franchises to Retro was a mistake, just that it was emblematic of the amount of regard they had for the franchise--that would never have occurred with a major console mario or zelda release (again, handhelds are a different story). Nintendo was pleasantly surprised by how Prime turned out and even more surprised when it turned out to be one of the best-selling games on the Gamecube. You're framing this as some calculated move that Nintendo always knew would pay off and not what it was--Nintendo didn't view the Metroid franchise as a huge asset following less-than-blockbuster sales for Super Metroid, so they were comfortable farming it out, and that's also the reason why we haven't seen a real new Metroid since Other M ruined things for everyone. Is Metroid really one of the three biggest though? Its held in good regard, but its never really been a big seller. I feel like Kirby, Animal Crossing, these days Fire Emblem, and even new IPs like Splatoon are way bigger contenders for that throne.
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Jan 18, 2017 23:58
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Jan 19, 2017 00:34
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The Bee posted:Is Metroid really one of the three biggest though? Its held in good regard, but its never really been a big seller. I feel like Kirby, Animal Crossing, these days Fire Emblem, and even new IPs like Splatoon are way bigger contenders for that throne. Today? definitely not. In 1998? Yeah. You could make a case for Donkey Kong Country being #3 following the DKC revival on the Super Nintendo, though. It was dead before that. I think it was still a bigger deal than Kirby for a long time and Animal Crossing didn't show up until 2001.
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Jan 19, 2017 00:48
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What has my stupid joke with a dollop of truth wrought? GODDAMNIT QUIT SPERGING OVER A STUPID JOKE ABOUT ENTERTAINMENT COMPANY SIMILARITIES! I mean I am right about it but, it's still just a stupid joke that shouldn't matter not cause this derail. Now Sanctus Reach is getting a computer game on the 19th which is like almost today depending on time zone. We should be talking about if it's good or poo poo or not. It's by Slitherine so you can actually buy a physical copy if you are a collecting dumbs hit like me who still wants their Ork Armageddon Standalone game and who just bought Vermintide on the PS4 for 20 bucks to have a physical standalone copy of a game mostly designed for online play I won't do because lol at giving console companies money to play games online when we have the internet as a whole for people to yell racist, homophobic, misogynistic, and anti Semitic slurs at us. FOR FREE. So I have kinda given GW money but only indirectly and for games that can be fun. I even have the NGage 40k game. And completed it. It uses actual 3.5 40k rules and you can play a 1500 point game in the time it takes to poop. (If you turn animation cutscenes off.) Space Crusade on the Amiga is still best GW to electronic port though. It just needs more chapters to play. Imperial Fists, Blood Angels, and Ultramarines? Blah. Crimson Fists, Salamanders, and White Panthers dammit! (Legion of the Damned and Charcaradons can be expansion pack!)
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Jan 19, 2017 01:38
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TheChirurgeon posted:Today? definitely not. In 1998? Yeah. You could make a case for Donkey Kong Country being #3 following the DKC revival on the Super Nintendo, though. It was dead before that. I think it was still a bigger deal than Kirby for a long time and Animal Crossing didn't show up until 2001. Very true, a lot of mine pulled from more recent sources. Although I figured it was always the case that Metroid never moved much in Japan, despite the franchise being quite great.
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Jan 19, 2017 01:51
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