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Orv posted:I feel like whoever is doing the programming for BBC America's Trek stuff is in on the joke. Their promo for Voyager is just thirty seconds of fast cut techno babble words with no context, ending with Janeway saying "So it seems clear" and then "Star Trek Voyager, on Mondays!" Voyager previews were always entertainingly misleading, my favorite is the preview for one of the Barclay episodes where Troi said some line about "we'll have to check this with Captain Picard" and they cut it down to her just saying "...with Captain Picard" in the trailer to try to make you think he would appear in the episode.
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Jan 19, 2017 16:56
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I wish I could find the UPN previews online, because Jammer's reviews always bitched about how sleazy and misleading they always were.
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Jan 19, 2017 16:59
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MorgaineDax posted:I wish I could find the UPN previews online, because Jammer's reviews always bitched about how sleazy and misleading they always were. Here you go. https://www.youtube.com/user/trekcorevideo/playlists?view=50&shelf_id=21&sort=dd
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Jan 19, 2017 17:08
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The Star Trek Starships collection just came out with the Enterprise-J and hoo boy that's some insane design. It's basically a flat disc and oh so spindly, and I love it.
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Jan 19, 2017 17:27
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I got through season one of ENT a while back, but I had saved the season finale/season two premiere until just the other day when I finally got a chance to watch it. "Shockwave" was pretty good as a season finale, and had the added bonus of putting its finger in the eye of Trutherism. i.e., "Archer did Space 9/11. Oh, wait. No he didn't because duh. It was obviously the Space Terrorists." I still kind of hate time travel episodes with rare exception ("City at the Edge of Forever"  ), but this was alright. I might be favoring it because I hate Truthers so much.I'm looking forward to ENT turning the page at least a little bit on the Suliban/Temporal Cold War plot and moving on to more of the Vulcans being dicks and some Space Nazis or whatever the gently caress goes on in season two. The Temporal Cold War was kind of lame, but "Shockwave" seemed like a good enough place to put that to bed for a while.
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Jan 19, 2017 17:45
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Railing Kill posted:I got through season one of ENT a while back, but I had saved the season finale/season two premiere until just the other day when I finally got a chance to watch it. "Shockwave" was pretty good as a season finale, and had the added bonus of putting its finger in the eye of Trutherism. i.e., "Archer did Space 9/11. Oh, wait. No he didn't because duh. It was obviously the Space Terrorists." I still kind of hate time travel episodes with rare exception ("City at the Edge of Forever" Temporal Cold war sucks for another season, then still exists as the "real threat" in S3 but S3 has the Xindi, which are the most interesting race in Star Trek outside of the Tholians and Horta. S3 is mediocre to good, S4 awesome as gently caress though with Vulcans being dicks. S2 has some good episodes but is basically the same as Season 1, some good poo poo and a lot of mediocrity. Overall it was a good show that finally got good and was then put out back and shot. I've been watching a little Voyager and I have a question: Has any major event permanently affected the doctor to make him a sentient being or is this a case of Starfleet creating a program that gains sentience but is completely poo poo upon despite the verdict from "Measure of a Man" saying that poo poo is wrong? He is a totally sentient program able to think, act, and react on his own accord yet is constantly being treated like a piece of poo poo despite the landmark case detailing the treatment of sentient artificial life forms only a few years prior.
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Jan 19, 2017 18:09
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I don't think he was considered sentient until they started leaving him on all the time and started tinkering with his programming. It's been a few years since I've seen Voyager so I could be wrong.
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Jan 19, 2017 18:21
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EvilTaytoMan posted:I don't think he was considered sentient until they started leaving him on all the time and started tinkering with his programming. It's been a few years since I've seen Voyager so I could be wrong. True, but Andy Dick was also kind of sentient, which makes the federation a bunch of unconstitutional dickbags. Stupid goddamned lazy writers.
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Jan 19, 2017 18:31
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Because he's a hologram they treat him differently from Data, at least until the end of Voyager
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Jan 19, 2017 18:31
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IIRC they don't consider his model sentient, but they consider some of the newer ones to be? And it turns out they're wrong about the Mark 1s because there's an episode where they're working in a mine and they use the Doctor's holonovel as entertainment? Basically that episode was a bad remake of Measure of a Man from what little I remember , but yeah inconsistent writing.
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Jan 19, 2017 18:37
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FlamingLiberal posted:Because he's a hologram they treat him differently from Data, at least until the end of Voyager Which is hosed because measure of a man's verdict is applies to all sentient artificial beings. that includes holograms that have been left on for a long time. It's kind of funny that they never seemed to grasp that during the evolution of the character, but I guess the way they treat him makes the character different than data.
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Jan 19, 2017 18:38
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MrJacobs posted:
I'm watching voyager for the first time and is almost done with season 7, and as far as I can see, they start to slowly see him as a sentient being, but never an equal. They still treat him like a piece of poo poo, going so far as breaking starfleet regulation, because they don't care about what the silly hologram says. So far voyager is the only Star Trek series where I have skipped a lot of episodes and hated main characters. B'Elana and Tom Paris are both childish in the worst way and can't cope with not getting their wills, and are often major dicks. How they got to be senior officers is beyond me.
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Jan 19, 2017 18:40
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MrJacobs posted:Which is hosed because measure of a man's verdict is applies to all sentient artificial beings. that includes holograms that have been left on for a long time. Just like technology they find/develop doesn't impact later episodes logically, social progress also isn't really carried forward.
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Jan 19, 2017 18:40
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I can't fathom using medical holograms as mining labour who are eventually going to revolt when it must be easier to just make grey humanoid shapes who are just programmed to mine. I guess this is Trek's weird take on data and computing where you can't just delete it..?
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Jan 19, 2017 19:11
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The_Doctor posted:The Star Trek Starships collection just came out with the Enterprise-J and hoo boy that's some insane design. It's basically a flat disc and oh so spindly, and I love it. You can't just not post it after that! We gotta see it.  
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Jan 19, 2017 19:22
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Timby posted:The thing is, they had a number of conversations with CBS and Paramount, and they were told what every other fan film ever had been told: "Don't try to make money off this, and we'll look the other way." But instead they had to sell Axanar-branded coffee and other poo poo (with one of the coffee blends having a goddamn Klingon D-7 on the bag), go on screeds on Facebook and Twitter ranting that they were the true heirs to the mantle of Star Trek and they were going to take it away from JJ the Usurper, use the donor money to build an entire goddamn film studio, and -- in some of the most damning evidence -- Christian Gossett produced email chains in which Peters said the original goal for Axanar was to have CBS / Paramount buy it out from him.
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Jan 19, 2017 19:32
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Zesty Crab Legs posted:You can't just not post it after that! We gotta see it. I was at my desk and couldn't take photos! Sorry!
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Jan 19, 2017 19:35
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Apparently in the Federation if you leave a hologram or holoprogram on long enough, they develop sentience.
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Jan 19, 2017 19:46
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Also Vic Fontaine is clearly sentient and no one gave a poo poo except Nog. "oh thanks for the advice, Vic! Computer end program and send Vic in to bleak nonexistence."
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Jan 19, 2017 19:47
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Blast Fantasto posted:Also Vic Fontaine is clearly sentient and no one gave a poo poo except Nog. TECHNICALLY Vic's program was on 24/7. Heh, I hope someone got probated for that blunder.
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Jan 19, 2017 19:54
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Zesty Crab Legs posted:You can't just not post it after that! We gotta see it. Based on past experience, there's no way this thing would arrive in less than 15 pieces after shipping.
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Jan 19, 2017 19:55
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WickedHate posted:TECHNICALLY Vic's program was on 24/7. Heh, I hope someone got probated for that blunder. That happened after Nog started giving a poo poo about him, before he was turned on and off like any other holoprogram - even though he was doing clearly sentient things like caring about crewmember's relationships and contacting them through the comms system.
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Jan 19, 2017 20:14
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Didn't Vic first turn his own program on, before anyone spoke out for him? Because if so, it's just a quick jump from that to Skynet. Then you've got nuclear annihilation flying all over the place, set to a buttery-smooth rendition of "My Way."
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Jan 19, 2017 20:30
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Blast Fantasto posted:Also Vic Fontaine is clearly sentient and no one gave a poo poo except Nog. I think it was meant to be the other way around, Vic was special because he was allowed to be self-aware (he knows he's a computer program, he doesn't think his holo environment is "real", etc.) but Nog ascribed more sentience to Vic than he actually possessed. Vic isn't Data, he can't truly change based on his experiences or deliberately act counter to his programming. The Doctor initially started the same way but something unique about his situation, maybe the complexity of his medical database or whatever  combined with being left on far longer than intended let him develop a true consciousness.
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Jan 19, 2017 20:32
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McSpanky posted:The Doctor initially started the same way but something unique about his situation, maybe the complexity of his medical database or whatever I've always figured it was something like this as well. Ran the program so long that it developed quirks, enough quirks and it led to a true consciousness. I really dug the Voyager episode where the EMH program E: vvv weird, I changed that with one edit, but it didn't take. Dude did break the hell down, though. MisterBibs fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Jan 19, 2017 |
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Jan 19, 2017 21:11
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Literally shat the bed. Really?
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Jan 19, 2017 21:16
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WickedHate posted:TECHNICALLY Vic's program was on 24/7. Heh, I hope someone got probated for that blunder. TECHNICALLY it was 26/7
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Jan 19, 2017 21:19
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McSpanky posted:I think it was meant to be the other way around, Vic was special because he was allowed to be self-aware (he knows he's a computer program, he doesn't think his holo environment is "real", etc.) but Nog ascribed more sentience to Vic than he actually possessed. Vic isn't Data, he can't truly change based on his experiences or deliberately act counter to his programming. That happens to droids in star wars, who are literally sentient robot slaves. But they make cool noises so just ignore that part of it. Either way, not having a catalyst to make Voyager's EMH sentient makes it so that the Federation are a morally inept society when it comes to holographic technology. uXs posted:Literally shat the bed. Really? He modified his programming to allow holographic fecal emissions to spontaneously form during a simulated resting state, this way his experience could allow him to console various crewmen in a state of distress after soiling their quarters or their uniform.
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Jan 19, 2017 21:20
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MrJacobs posted:Which is hosed because measure of a man's verdict is applies to all sentient artificial beings. that includes holograms that have been left on for a long time. The question is whether or not the doctor qualifies as sentient, or not. Now obviously we are meant to believe that he is, but there's no way to test for sentience.
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Jan 19, 2017 21:49
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Did he ever bone anyone? Data boning was essential to that ruling.
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Jan 19, 2017 21:52
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On trek the test is "does this character resonate with the audience?" and that's that.
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Jan 19, 2017 21:52
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WickedHate posted:Did he ever bone anyone? Data boning was essential to that ruling. Yes he boned. He even somehow had a child when he was on the fast time planet for three years.
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Jan 19, 2017 21:54
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Pwnstar posted:Yes he boned. He even somehow had a child when he was on the fast time planet for three years. And he turned into a Chicagoan meatball in terms of the planet's favorite sport.
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Jan 19, 2017 21:57
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Zesty Crab Legs posted:You can't just not post it after that! We gotta see it. I have no idea if it was done that way intentionally (because it sure didn't come across on screen) but I like the way it takes design cues from the NX-01. Very appropriate, seeing as how we saw it on Enterprise.
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Jan 19, 2017 21:57
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Baronjutter posted:On trek the test is "does this character resonate with the audience?" and that's that. Yes, but I was addressing why the doctor was treated poorly even after the events of measure of a man, and it's because the question of "can a machine be sentient" can never be known.
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Jan 19, 2017 22:00
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Pwnstar posted:Yes he boned. He even somehow had a child when he was on the fast time planet for three years. He was on that planet for 10x+ the amount of time he was on Voyager, that should of drastically altered him for the rest of the series.
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Jan 19, 2017 22:01
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Can anyone explain to me why Picard is French? Once they hired Stewart and decided he would just do his normal British accent, why did they made the character French? And even if his ancestry is French, which would be fine, why made it so that the character grew up in France when he obviously didn't? edit: Allright there's a French kid with a British accent too. Did Britain conquer France in the Trek timeline? Namaer fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Jan 19, 2017 |
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Jan 19, 2017 22:20
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I've explained this before, it's very obvious. In WWIII most of the world was nuked and totally destroyed except for north america, maybe they had a missile defense, maybe they just had the most surviving cities. This left the world to be re-populated solely by americans, which luckily is a fairly diverse country. People with any sort of ancestry were sent off to rebuild and re-populate their dead homelands. In many cases people were just "close enough", and Picard's village was re-populated mostly by english people because what ever, it's all europe. Some people got really into their new countries, even trying to adopt bad fake accents. This explains why 90% of the accents you hear in trek are american, and the general cultural and racial demographics of trek happen to mostly match that of the US at the time of filming. San Francisco was one of the most well preserved american cities, which is why it's so important and you always see it and it's historic skyline in trek yet no one really mentions New York or DC, because they were clearly destroyed in WWIII. It's the only logical explanation.
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Jan 19, 2017 22:32
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Namaer posted:Can anyone explain to me why Picard is French? Once they hired Stewart and decided he would just do his normal British accent, why did they made the character French? And even if his ancestry is French, which would be fine, why made it so that the character grew up in France when he obviously didn't? It's several hundred years in the future and large portions of the world died in WW3 accents might of shifted around.
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Jan 19, 2017 22:33
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlhzX7UKKNU It may have just died out, especially after like centuries under a unified world government
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Jan 19, 2017 22:36
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