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Kevyn posted:Members of the Davis family aren't born, they are conjured up. Splinters from the previous host.
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Jan 20, 2017 05:23
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Adun posted:Bread and circuses except the people of Rome are paying for it instead of caesar I'm not paying a single penny for it. hth.
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Jan 20, 2017 05:39
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Rumor is that Phil Michelson loves watching his wife get hosed by other rich men so I'm not surprised he's cool with his beloved city getting the same treatment.
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Jan 20, 2017 07:06
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A Buff Gay Dude posted:Rumor is that Phil Michelson loves watching his wife get hosed by other rich men so I'm not surprised he's cool with his beloved city getting the same treatment. That is some rumor!
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Jan 20, 2017 07:28
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warcrimes posted:I'm not paying a single penny for it. hth. That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works. You're absolutely indirectly paying for it either through reduced spending from tourists, any budgetary shortfalls versus their optimistic projections, or just simply from spending money on a boondoggle stadium instead of any other more useful project. Even if the city decided not to build anything else the increased debt load will increase future borrowing costs. Las Vegas, the thirtieth largest metro area in the US, has now committed the most public money ever to a stadium. Adun fucked around with this message at 12:59 on Jan 20, 2017 |
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Jan 20, 2017 12:53
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Kevyn posted:Members of the Davis family aren't born, they are conjured up. 100% confirmed. If you're in Oakland and can stomach a cemetery, go visit Al Davis's mausoleum at Chapel of the Chimes and see for yourself. Actually, go see the whole place. It's the single coolest place I've ever worked.
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Jan 20, 2017 13:30
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Adun posted:That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works. "reduced spending from tourists"? Because they paid an extra $5 a night for a room? That's some pretty impressive hyperbolic reaching, my fellow.
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Jan 20, 2017 14:08
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warcrimes posted:"reduced spending from tourists"? Because they paid an extra $5 a night for a room? That's some pretty impressive hyperbolic reaching, my fellow. You seriously don't think it will affect tourist spending at all? Are you just being willfully dense? To think that taxes have no effect on spending decisions is insane. On a small scale let's say a family of four budgets $2000 for a four night stay in Vegas. 2 rooms, 4 nights, so there's $40 out of their budget that they would've spent elsewhere. Or how about let's say a company decides to host a convention in Vegas. 1,000 attendees in 1,000 rooms for four nights. That's now $20,000 more to budget for and hell, maybe you're just better off doing it in Reno. At least you've got Lake Tahoe right there. Also lolol 1/3 of attendance at preseason games to tourists quote:Or was it? Getting to that number required some rather unusual assumptions. One was that a third of the 65,000 fans at any Raiders game — including preseason games — would not be Las Vegans but out-of-towners. They would stay in a hotel for 3.2 days and spend collectively, on an annual basis, $375 million. In other words, 217,000 people each year would fly to Las Vegas for the primary purpose of watching the Raiders play football. Even if there were that many seats set aside for tourists (highly unlikely), that seems implausible. Adun fucked around with this message at 14:36 on Jan 20, 2017 |
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Jan 20, 2017 14:32
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Demand curves, how do they work??
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Jan 20, 2017 15:54
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Vegas is still going to get your money. Anyone who goes to vegas and doesn't budget enough that $40 won't make a huge difference is the same type of person who would go into debt for football tickets.
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Jan 20, 2017 16:01
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TBeats posted:Vegas is still going to get your money. Anyone who goes to vegas and doesn't budget enough that $40 won't make a huge difference is the same type of person who would go into debt for football tickets. This is a stupid as argument because we're not talking about individual cases we're talking about the aggregate
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Jan 20, 2017 16:12
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Adun posted:This is a stupid as argument because we're not talking about individual cases we're talking about the aggregate The aggregate of what? Because your argument was $40 on a hotel is $40 not spent elsewhere. How does that affect the overall aggregate? Unless you mean specific to hotels? Specific to casinos? Specific to football?
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Jan 20, 2017 16:16
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TBeats posted:The aggregate of what? Because your argument was $40 on a hotel is $40 not spent elsewhere. How does that affect the overall aggregate? Because instead of being spent in the economy of the city of Las Vegas it will be spent to repay debt incurred in construction of the stadium and all profit from the stadium goes to the people who finance it, either Sheldon Adelson or Goldman Sachs.
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Jan 20, 2017 16:28
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Adun posted:You seriously don't think it will affect tourist spending at all? Are you just being willfully dense? To think that taxes have no effect on spending decisions is insane. It isn't $5 per room per night unless they're doing like luxury suites or something (and therefore not worrying about the money too much). http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2016/10/11/nevada-state-senate-approves-hotel-tax-bill-for-vegas-stadium/ posted:Two-thirds of each Republican-controlled chamber of the legislature must approve any tax increase. The proposed deal would increase the hotel tax on the Las Vegas Strip by 0.88 percentage points for the stadium and 0.5 percentage points for the convention center. Tourists pay a 12 percent hotel room tax. They would pay about $1.50 more per night at the average Strip hotel if both proposals pass. So $12 more in your scenario. On top of that it's meant to draw in additional people to watch games during the Vegas slow season, which is why the casino owners wanted it in the first place. But I imagine that's a difficult revenue to predict.
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Jan 20, 2017 16:45
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Adun posted:Because instead of being spent in the economy of the city of Las Vegas it will be spent to repay debt incurred in construction of the stadium and all profit from the stadium goes to the people who finance it, either Sheldon Adelson or Goldman Sachs. So move to vegas and recall their elected officials and vote down the proposal? If you care so much
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Jan 20, 2017 16:49
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got any sevens posted:So move to vegas and recall their elected officials and vote down the proposal? If you care so much Sorry are you trying to give me poo poo for arguing on an internet message board?
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Jan 20, 2017 16:50
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Adun posted:arguing on an internet message board Lol
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Jan 20, 2017 16:59
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Great argument T well done
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Jan 20, 2017 17:50
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A Buff Gay Dude posted:Rumor is that Phil Michelson loves watching his wife get hosed by other rich men so I'm not surprised he's cool with his beloved city getting the same treatment. Wow, I bet Tiger must have gotten in on that.
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Jan 20, 2017 17:53
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Adun posted:Sorry are you trying to give me poo poo for arguing on an internet message board? It was only cause you keep saying the same thing over and over. I agree with you, anyway.
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Jan 20, 2017 17:59
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lmao if you look at your bill when you check out of a vegas hotel just lol
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Jan 20, 2017 18:13
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When I'm in Vegas I'm not going to notice a double digit change in hotel room costs. I'm there to drink and gamble and go to Spearmint and not having an additional $40 is probably for the better. Miss me with that miser poo poo.
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Jan 20, 2017 18:24
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Chinatown posted:lmao if you look at your bill when you check out of a vegas hotel
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Jan 20, 2017 19:11
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Las Vegas is a disgusting poo poo hole and should be razed to the ground, not expanded
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Jan 20, 2017 19:34
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Some of the money spent building the stadium will go to like, contractors and workers and stuff though, right? Obviously the profits go to owners and the interest on the loans the local government takes out come from taxes (on tourists) but... oh, I guess a lot of out of town labor would be used, and probably the steel beams and stuff aren't manufactured in Vegas. But still there has to be at least a little bit of local construction that gets stimulated by the spend?
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Jan 20, 2017 19:39
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Leperflesh posted:Some of the money spent building the stadium will go to like, contractors and workers and stuff though, right? Obviously the profits go to owners and the interest on the loans the local government takes out come from taxes (on tourists) but... oh, I guess a lot of out of town labor would be used, and probably the steel beams and stuff aren't manufactured in Vegas. But still there has to be at least a little bit of local construction that gets stimulated by the spend? yep. hopefully they don't use a big blue crane. 
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Jan 20, 2017 19:47
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This article on Deadspin is fantastic and sums up the feelings of most San Diego Chargers fans. San Diego Chargers Fans Got hosed to the Last
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Jan 20, 2017 19:52
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Leperflesh posted:Some of the money spent building the stadium will go to like, contractors and workers and stuff though, right? Obviously the profits go to owners and the interest on the loans the local government takes out come from taxes (on tourists) but... oh, I guess a lot of out of town labor would be used, and probably the steel beams and stuff aren't manufactured in Vegas. But still there has to be at least a little bit of local construction that gets stimulated by the spend? Yes we have every trade under the sun both union and non-union. Unions in Vegas have built just about every property on the strip and downtown. And yes it will probably clear the books for a while meaning all the locals will be working as well as any travelers we get. Typically a stadium isn't big enough to get a large influx of travelers like say, City Center/Cosmo did.
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Jan 20, 2017 21:15
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Modest Mouse cover band posted:So $12 more in your scenario. On top of that it's meant to draw in additional people to watch games during the Vegas slow season, which is why the casino owners wanted it in the first place. But I imagine that's a difficult revenue to predict. "$12?!?! Sweet sassy molassy, cancel our Cirque plans and have Charles start up the Lear, we're out here!" Yet I'm the dense one.
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Jan 20, 2017 21:23
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got any sevens posted:It was only cause you keep saying the same thing over and over. I agree with you, anyway. Yeah I get irate about it because government subsidies for billionaires is the last thing we need and none of this poo poo makes economic sense yet owners still successfully hold cities hostage over it.
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Jan 20, 2017 21:38
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Adun posted:Yeah I get irate about it because government subsidies for billionaires is the last thing we need and none of this poo poo makes economic sense yet owners still successfully hold cities hostage over it. 
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Jan 20, 2017 21:45
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Korranus posted:100% confirmed. If you're in Oakland and can stomach a cemetery, go visit Al Davis's mausoleum at Chapel of the Chimes and see for yourself. I thought his body was entombed in the torch we light before the games.
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Jan 20, 2017 21:50
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A Buff Gay Dude posted:Rumor is that Phil Michelson loves watching his wife get hosed by other rich men so I'm not surprised he's cool with his beloved city getting the same treatment. Well I'll be! Has he ever met Todd Haley and his wife? Look at me. The Matchmaker.
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Jan 20, 2017 22:05
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warcrimes posted:"$12?!?! Sweet sassy molassy, cancel our Cirque plans and have Charles start up the Lear, we're out here!" I know I'm not going to change your opinion on this but I'll try one last time. Las Vegas is planning on issuing $750mio in general obligation bonds to build the stadium. That means that any short falls in revenue (IE the hotel tax doesn't cover the full debt service cost) are going to have to be made whole by the city. Projections from the stadium committee obviously say that the hotel tax AND increased spending from visitors to the city will make up for the difference so it's not just the hotel tax, it's the hotel tax plus generous assumptions about the number of new visitors that will come to Vegas because of the stadium which apparently is being estimated at around 450,000. Now assuming 4% interest and 30 year amortization using Excel it looks like each year the debt service cost is $43 million. $12 a night might not be a lot, but $43 million a year is a poo poo load of money and you'd be crazy to think they wouldn't have an effect on people's decisions.
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Jan 20, 2017 22:10
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War crimes do you think most hotels are booked by individuals traveling to vegas or by corporations planning events where they book giant lots? What percentage do you think make up each facet? I'll hang up and listen
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Jan 20, 2017 22:24
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Amy Pole Her posted:War crimes do you think most hotels are booked by individuals traveling to vegas or by corporations planning events where they book giant lots? I thought the whole point was that it's stupid to placate rich people?
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Jan 20, 2017 22:26
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Expand on that logic please
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Jan 20, 2017 22:27
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An alert just popped up on my phone saying "NFL upset with Chargers moving, wants them back in San Diego. " Lol
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Jan 20, 2017 22:28
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Amy Pole Her posted:Expand on that logic please If I'm understanding you correctly, you're talking about a $40 increase (since that number was brought up earlier) impacting people who book rooms in bulk (corporations)? If that's true then the logic seems to be: Raiders move for money? gently caress THOSE RICH PEOPLE!! $40 added on that cumulates to a LOT of money to people who book rooms in bulk? THINK OF THE RICH PEOPLE!!
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Jan 20, 2017 22:29
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TBeats posted:I thought the whole point was that it's stupid to placate rich people? He's not saying that Vegas should keep costs low to help corporations booking hotel rooms. His point is that for a corporation booking a block of 500 rooms or whatever that incremental $5-10k per night could mean the difference between booking in Vegas or booking in Orlando or Chicago or whatever which costs Las Vegas tax revenue
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Jan 20, 2017 22:30
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